Who cares that this game is the label Pay to Win. get past it. I just wanted to prove it is indeed a pay to win game. I might play it in the future , but not until I finish playing the divison
It has very mild p2w elements, and I don't think anyone doubts that. However, it has less "p2w" than many other mmos- including sub-based and other b2p mmos, so it is quite strange to see it get painted as a "p2w" game.
Another important thing about the (limited) p2w elements in the cash shop is that in the NA/EU version it is not some kind of endless money pit. For example the OP says the ghillie suit and pets are p2w: the suit is $29, and OP says pets are $24. Combined with the cost of the game itself that is still less than I spent on the box price for ESO before paying subs.
One of the main issues with p2w is when players have to spend a lot of money to keep up (eg items to improve rng on enchants), or can just outright buy the most powerful equipment in the game, either straight from the cash shop or by converting cash shop items or currency into game currency. BDO doesn't have any of that which by default makes it one of the least p2w mmos on the market.
I hate P2W in games, but i'm just not seeing it here. Hiding a name plate means nothing, I tend to hide name plates in every game as I find It more immersive and at no point do I feel disadvantaged. Auto looting pets and xp? Really? Auto loot is tog-gable in some games, also for the past few years people have been saying there's nothing wrong with XP potions and now it's a sudden problem? Why aren't there threads about other games that have XP potions or auto loot pets? Also the key goal of this game isn't leveling, so leveling fast means nothing.
When I see signs of them starting to head down that route, I'll be up in arms and back what you say, but right now nothing at this point is a problem.
When Arche Age was released a lot of people didn't see p2w there also. Shame though it was a good game.
Yeah, but it was proven with videos and actually evidence, spreadsheets and what not. That's the point I made at the end, if this can be proven then i'm all for speaking out, but at this point it's just people sharing their opinion. If you can show me a video of someone demonstrating the advantages gained in PvP or what ever else due to having XP boosts, the costume and auto looting pets then I will happily say you're right.
Who cares that this game is the label Pay to Win. get past it. I just wanted to prove it is indeed a pay to win game. I might play it in the future , but not until I finish playing the divison
It has very mild p2w elements, and I don't think anyone doubts that. However, it has less "p2w" than many other mmos- including sub-based and other b2p mmos, so it is quite strange to see it get painted as a "p2w" game.
cool. now we are talking about how "mild" some p2w elements are. well it is a progress. still, mildness is not a quantifiable thing for me
One of the houses in Heidel is costume related I think. I will have to verify when I get home, but as I was looking through the houses last night I thought I saw a costume house.
Who cares that this game is the label Pay to Win. get past it. I just wanted to prove it is indeed a pay to win game. I might play it in the future , but not until I finish playing the divison
It has very mild p2w elements, and I don't think anyone doubts that. However, it has less "p2w" than many other mmos- including sub-based and other b2p mmos, so it is quite strange to see it get painted as a "p2w" game.
cool. now we are talking about how "mild" some p2w elements are. well it is a progress. still, mildness is not a quantifiable thing for me
I don't think there are any mmos with no p2w elements so good luck finding a game to play.
This thread might be more annoying than the "BDO is the bestest game EVAR!" threads.
Wait, no it's not.
Are you a masochist? Why do you read annoying threads. You know, you can also go out and help an old lady crossing the street for example.
Arrghht. Need. Respond. Annoying. Threads.
I was actually more interested in what comes out of the head of someone who can't seem to understand the difference between a letter and a number. Now I know.
That's five minutes of my life I'll never get back.
Yes, BDO is a p2w game. First you need to buy the game for 30 bucks minimum (cha ching!) Then you need:
- ghillie suit because trying to go somewhere outside the town is a respawn minigame, 30 buck, (cha ching!) - pets are gained only from cash shop and now they give you with exchange all kind of exp bonuses (they already have loot pickup, enemy detection ... ) 24 bucks (cha ching!) - gear customization is available only from a cash shop (which is not so problematic if it was the only issue) (30 per costume) (cha ching!)
You can bend over backward trying to explain, why stuff like this is not an advantage (apart from costumes) gained only from a cash shop but the truth is that you are either intellectually dishonest or you just don't know what p2w means. Actually it is pretty simple: you buy something that gives you advantage over other players.
Funny thing is that when the publisher is asked why the game has no gear customization they answer with: "Uh oh, guys please understand. We need to earn money in one way or another." Lmao, you force people to first buy the game, then limit the gameplay to a level that they need to buy tons of additional stuff just to not be penalized and you poor guys just cant find a way to earn money. They are such givers not a company, that Daum
They didn't waited a month to show their true colours.
p.s To people that white knighted the exp gain on costumes. Well munchkins now with pets it is 19% and I am pretty sure they will give additional bonuses to cha-ching users. Just wait a mon.. ahem week or so.
Thank you for giving me this info.. I was close in buying this game. But had my doubts about it. Have heard some similar things about this game..
I remember when you payed a monthly fee to play a game.. And that worked just fine until some greedy people found a new way of making more money...
It really hurts reading about it over and over again..... ching ching...
Hard playing a game like that when you know it was better of with a monthly fee.. and it worked..
Thanks again.. Now i dont have to waste my money on a cash cow
Yes, BDO is a p2w game. First you need to buy the game for 30 bucks minimum (cha ching!) Then you need:
- ghillie suit because trying to go somewhere outside the town is a respawn minigame, 30 buck, (cha ching!) - pets are gained only from cash shop and now they give you with exchange all kind of exp bonuses (they already have loot pickup, enemy detection ... ) 24 bucks (cha ching!) - gear customization is available only from a cash shop (which is not so problematic if it was the only issue) (30 per costume) (cha ching!)
You can bend over backward trying to explain, why stuff like this is not an advantage (apart from costumes) gained only from a cash shop but the truth is that you are either intellectually dishonest or you just don't know what p2w means. Actually it is pretty simple: you buy something that gives you advantage over other players.
Funny thing is that when the publisher is asked why the game has no gear customization they answer with: "Uh oh, guys please understand. We need to earn money in one way or another." Lmao, you force people to first buy the game, then limit the gameplay to a level that they need to buy tons of additional stuff just to not be penalized and you poor guys just cant find a way to earn money. They are such givers not a company, that Daum
They didn't waited a month to show their true colours.
p.s To people that white knighted the exp gain on costumes. Well munchkins now with pets it is 19% and I am pretty sure they will give additional bonuses to cha-ching users. Just wait a mon.. ahem week or so.
Thank you for giving me this info.. I was close in buying this game. But had my doubts about it. Have heard some similar things about this game..
I remember when you payed a monthly fee to play a game.. And that worked just fine until some greedy people found a new way of making more money...
It really hurts reading about it over and over again..... ching ching...
Hard playing a game like that when you know it was better of with a monthly fee.. and it worked..
Thanks again.. Now i dont have to waste my money on a cash cow
Even adding up all the stuff the OP claims you need to play it only comes to about $110, less than I paid for ESO when it first came out. Comparatively, its the rental mmos that charge a box price, charge for expansions, and then charge a monthly game tax to even play that are the "ching ching" cash cows.
Modern MMO's effectively compete with single-player games, in that the average player will spend the same time in both. Players play a new MMO for 6 to 8 weeks and then jump ship because it's no longer new, shiny and exciting. It's just human nature.
Seeing as MMO's cost more to make than SPG's, it also makes sense that they will cost more to play. So to get the "full experience" in a so-called F2P game, you will need to spend 50% or 100% more than you would to play the "full version" of a SPG (even if the SPG has multiplayer or co-op).
Yes, BDO is a p2w game. First you need to buy the game for 30 bucks minimum (cha ching!) Then you need:
- ghillie suit because trying to go somewhere outside the town is a respawn minigame, 30 buck, (cha ching!) - pets are gained only from cash shop and now they give you with exchange all kind of exp bonuses (they already have loot pickup, enemy detection ... ) 24 bucks (cha ching!) - gear customization is available only from a cash shop (which is not so problematic if it was the only issue) (30 per costume) (cha ching!)
You can bend over backward trying to explain, why stuff like this is not an advantage (apart from costumes) gained only from a cash shop but the truth is that you are either intellectually dishonest or you just don't know what p2w means. Actually it is pretty simple: you buy something that gives you advantage over other players.
Funny thing is that when the publisher is asked why the game has no gear customization they answer with: "Uh oh, guys please understand. We need to earn money in one way or another." Lmao, you force people to first buy the game, then limit the gameplay to a level that they need to buy tons of additional stuff just to not be penalized and you poor guys just cant find a way to earn money. They are such givers not a company, that Daum
They didn't waited a month to show their true colours.
p.s To people that white knighted the exp gain on costumes. Well munchkins now with pets it is 19% and I am pretty sure they will give additional bonuses to cha-ching users. Just wait a mon.. ahem week or so.
Thank you for giving me this info.. I was close in buying this game. But had my doubts about it. Have heard some similar things about this game..
I remember when you payed a monthly fee to play a game.. And that worked just fine until some greedy people found a new way of making more money...
It really hurts reading about it over and over again..... ching ching...
Hard playing a game like that when you know it was better of with a monthly fee.. and it worked..
Thanks again.. Now i dont have to waste my money on a cash cow
Even adding up all the stuff the OP claims you need to play it only comes to about $110, less than I paid for ESO when it first came out. Comparatively, its the rental mmos that charge a box price, charge for expansions, and then charge a monthly game tax to even play that are the "ching ching" cash cows.
Granted the last time I played WoW was vanilla so maybe I am WAY wrong, but the base price includes everything that is reasonably needed to play the game comfortably as far as end user experience.
I could not play BD without auto-looting pets due to AoE grind nature of the game for me - every minutes there are 30+ mobs dead that I'd have to click on without pets. It's pretty damn unplayable to me if I didn't have pets.
PvP treant suit is a also a must IMO. Instant rez tears can be hugely useful in situations where your group gets rolled in PvP and is about to lose a node or grind spot. Etc....
Maybe WoW is the same way today - there are things you must buy to make the game reasonably enjoyable, but I think that WoW includes everything in the base game.
That is the difference. Again i haven't played WoW in 10+ years so maybe I am just flat out wrong.
To you the pets and treant suit are needed - but that still makes BDO less expensive than a sub game like WoW. For me everything in BDO that I need was included in my $50 purchase, and actually I don't really use the pet or need the horse.
Similarly with WoW you might be fine with just the base game (and expansions you do need to buy those), but following the logic of the OP there would no doubt be people who felt they need to buy those other items, just as you feel the treant and pets are necessary for BDO.
Either way, WoW is more expensive, but neither game comes close to the cash grabbing of certain other games both released and still in development: and that is really my point.
Never again asian games! They start as super awesome revolutionary games but every time i got burned.And eventually people realise that are just money sponge.Don't take my word just check the facts. Sorry for the fan boys that are gona rage over this.For the others peace and western games FTW!
But there is more p2w in most western mmos. For example, GW2 lets you basically just convert cash to gold and has all those xp boosts etc, ESO lets you buy horse upgrades, gear customization, xp boosts, skill lines (vampire/werewolf), WoW lets you buy a fully leveled character, etc.
In addition take a look at some upcoming Western games, some are basically money siphons even before being released selling p2w items for thousands of dollars. Yeah, Western games FTW.
Yes, but in GW2 you can also get all that stuff by playing the game. It would take longer of course - but thier is no gameplay /stats advantage.You can still get everything a person using real money could, and never pay a cent. Ever.
Granted the last time I played WoW was vanilla so maybe I am WAY wrong, but the base price includes everything that is reasonably needed to play the game comfortably as far as end user experience.
I could not play BD without auto-looting pets due to AoE grind nature of the game for me - every minutes there are 30+ mobs dead that I'd have to click on without pets. It's pretty damn unplayable to me if I didn't have pets.
PvP treant suit is a also a must IMO. Instant rez tears can be hugely useful in situations where your group gets rolled in PvP and is about to lose a node or grind spot. Etc....
Maybe WoW is the same way today - there are things you must buy to make the game reasonably enjoyable, but I think that WoW includes everything in the base game.
That is the difference. Again i haven't played WoW in 10+ years so maybe I am just flat out wrong.
FYI WoW has a cash shop item called WoW Token that can be legally sold for ingame gold so that anyone can purchase gold for real money. Also if I'm not mistaken in WoW it's been legal to multibox with up to four accounts.
And although it's not legal a lot of players tend to go the botting route in that game. It's clearly noticable that even BG's are loaded with bots especially during nights.
Yet not many cry P2W due to the nature of a huge part of WoW's community. It always amazed me how the same people who remain silent about WoW's current business model bash on other games and call them P2W. I'm not talking about this particular "drama" about BDO offering some features through its cash shop but how a lot of WoW players tend to bash on every single MMO in general while they accept the fact that WoW has a fairly similar business model besides it's still being a monthly sub game. Some even talk about WoW being a good example of how MMOs should be offering paid services in 2016.
Of course I'm not saying that it's typical of WoW's community but it's clear that there is a vocal crowd among them that don't accept any paid features in MMOs but the ones in WoW, including paid server transfers, paid faction changes, legalized gold selling, paid max level characters, cash shop exclusive mounts, legally playing simultaneously on multiple accounts, annoying chat spams, (illegal) botting even in PvP and so on. It's just strange how people judge different games.
We are certainly moving the P2W goal post when when we start calling convenience items such as pets with XP bonuses and auto loot, cosmetic gear customization with XP bonuses that are only available in the cash shop, and a suit that hides a players name, P2W.
How a pet that auto loots, or a costume that grants a player a minimal XP bonus, would ever be considered P2W is beyond me. The only advantage that pet, or costume, may give a player is that they may level faster. Even so, that is only contingent on the amount of playing time the player with that pet, or costume, has available to play. Those don't make a player more powerful, they just get them to top level faster. Is a costume with an XP bonus going to make a player who works, has a family, and only has a couple of hours to play a day more powerful than a player who is at home all day long playing 12 hours a day and not wearing one of these costumes? Not hardly. Even then, getting to the top faster will not have made that player more powerful. There are many players at top level with gimped characters. Getting to top level fast does not equal powerful.
If getting to the top fastest equaled P2W, then every game that offered a head start at release would be P2W, because those players starting the game at head start have a minimum four day head start advantage over the rest of the population that joins a game at release. Even so, that is all rendered neglible because MMORPGs have never been about a race to top level. If the game was about racing to top level, or about players winning by getting there first, then every game released since the advent of MMORPGs would be considered P2W because there are always players joining weeks, months, and years after a game has been released. There are players at max level with full BiS gear when many players are at level one going through the game tutorial in every MMORPG you play. Such is the nature of an MMORPG.
The Treant Suit is another example. This is an item that, although it may give a player a "strike-first" advantage, it does not make them more powerful. It doesn't have any stats. All it does is hide a players name. If a Treant Suit is P2W, then every game that offers PvP in a game with a population comprised primarily of PvE players is P2W. Because gankers will always have the advantage over unsuspecting PvE players. Yet you don't ever hear the PvP-centric player complain about that being P2W. Let them tell it, ganking is an integral part of OWPvP.
If you are defining P2W as any thing that gives one player an advantage over another, your definition of P2W is flawed. The key word is not "advantage." The key word is "power." As illustrated above, having an "advantage" over another is subjective. What one person considers an advantage, another may not. The only people that would consider items that give XP bonuses, or auto-looting, as P2W are people who consider being first to top level as "winning." Yet that has never been the purpose of an MMORPG. If true, that would mean that playing any MMORPG is an exercise in futility since only a handful of players are ever capable of being the first to get to top level in every MMORPG.
Long story short, although the definition of P2W has been watered down and given different variations of meaning by players with agendas and personal gaming preferences, there is only one true credible definition of P2W. And that is any game with a cash shop that offers items for sale that makes a player more powerful, that are not attainable, or otherwise remedied by other items offered in game, without the use of cash. Anything short of that, is just smoke and mirrors.
Sorry you are not yetr versed i n gaming to understand how they are p2w but sure enough you are likely to further understand it a few years down the line. Just the weapon/gear upgrades design alone is enough p2w to completely turn me off besides it is a cheap idea and not a FUN idea so it just plain sucks with it's game design.
I thought we stopped with the +1 +3 swords 20 years ago but now devs are so cheap and lazy they are trying to bring it back.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Sorry you are not yetr versed i n gaming to understand how they are p2w but sure enough you are likely to further understand it a few years down the line. Just the weapon/gear upgrades design alone is enough p2w to completely turn me off besides it is a cheap idea and not a FUN idea so it just plain sucks with it's game design.
I thought we stopped with the +1 +3 swords 20 years ago but now devs are so cheap and lazy they are trying to bring it back.
We are certainly moving the P2W goal post when when we start calling convenience items such as pets with XP bonuses and auto loot, cosmetic gear customization with XP bonuses that are only available in the cash shop, and a suit that hides a players name, P2W.
How a pet that auto loots, or a costume that grants a player a minimal XP bonus, would ever be considered P2W is beyond me. The only advantage that pet, or costume, may give a player is that they may level faster. Even so, that is only contingent on the amount of playing time the player with that pet, or costume, has available to play. Those don't make a player more powerful, they just get them to top level faster. Is a costume with an XP bonus going to make a player who works, has a family, and only has a couple of hours to play a day more powerful than a player who is at home all day long playing 12 hours a day and not wearing one of these costumes? Not hardly. Even then, getting to the top faster will not have made that player more powerful. There are many players at top level with gimped characters. Getting to top level fast does not equal powerful.
If getting to the top fastest equaled P2W, then every game that offered a head start at release would be P2W, because those players starting the game at head start have a minimum four day head start advantage over the rest of the population that joins a game at release. Even so, that is all rendered neglible because MMORPGs have never been about a race to top level. If the game was about racing to top level, or about players winning by getting there first, then every game released since the advent of MMORPGs would be considered P2W because there are always players joining weeks, months, and years after a game has been released. There are players at max level with full BiS gear when many players are at level one going through the game tutorial in every MMORPG you play. Such is the nature of an MMORPG.
The Treant Suit is another example. This is an item that, although it may give a player a "strike-first" advantage, it does not make them more powerful. It doesn't have any stats. All it does is hide a players name. If a Treant Suit is P2W, then every game that offers PvP in a game with a population comprised primarily of PvE players is P2W. Because gankers will always have the advantage over unsuspecting PvE players. Yet you don't ever hear the PvP-centric player complain about that being P2W. Let them tell it, ganking is an integral part of OWPvP.
If you are defining P2W as any thing that gives one player an advantage over another, your definition of P2W is flawed. The key word is not "advantage." The key word is "power." As illustrated above, having an "advantage" over another is subjective. What one person considers an advantage, another may not. The only people that would consider items that give XP bonuses, or auto-looting, as P2W are people who consider being first to top level as "winning." Yet that has never been the purpose of an MMORPG. If true, that would mean that playing any MMORPG is an exercise in futility since only a handful of players are ever capable of being the first to get to top level in every MMORPG.
Long story short, although the definition of P2W has been watered down and given different variations of meaning by players with agendas and personal gaming preferences, there is only one true credible definition of P2W. And that is any game with a cash shop that offers items for sale that makes a player more powerful, that are not attainable, or otherwise remedied by other items offered in game, without the use of cash. Anything short of that, is just smoke and mirrors.
It is not the individual pieces that make it what it is. It the sum of the pieces. But you're all PvE so it really doesn't have any effect on you (yet).
Just enjoy the PvE until it ends at 45. Once you get to 45 you will start to see how hard it is to get to 46 without dealing with some rather bad behavior.
As stated elsewhere you think they are going to change things when they don't even ban people for being total jerks by killing people fighting the world boss?
It is not the individual pieces that make it what it is. It the sum of the pieces. But you're all PvE so it really doesn't have any effect on you (yet).
Just enjoy the PvE until it ends at 45. Once you get to 45 you will start to see how hard it is to get to 46 without dealing with some rather bad behavior.
As stated elsewhere you think they are going to change things when they don't even ban people for being total jerks by killing people fighting the world boss?
The game is PvP deal with it.
I'm not all PvE, I'm against non-consensual PvP in MMORPGs. There is a difference. The difference between me and you, and the pro non-consensual PvP-centric players, is that when I want to get my PvP fix on, I go to where the big boys PvP, not some MMORPG where I can get my jollies off ganking players that aren't interested in PvPing with me. I'm confident of my PvP skills. I don't need to go around being an internet warrior bragging about how hard I can hit someone with my keyboard strikes. I realize its a game, but I reject the mentality that just because its a game I can go around being an ass hat to people, ganking players just for the lulz and ruining their game play.
I'm of the mentality that I actually feel bad about the notion of taking advantage of an unsuspecting PvEer who was minding his/her business fishing, tending to their farm, or engaging in non-combat related activities. That's not what I consider fun, that's abusive anti-social behavior. All I envision when I see that is a person sitting in front of a computer in their mommy's basement trying to compensate for what they lack in real life. Secure, confident, stable individuals don't need to go around trolling, trash talking, taking advantage of, or otherwise inconveniencing their fellow player's game time just to feel big and powerful. The better PvPers enjoy consensual PvP. Players arguing in support of non-consensual PvP get no sympathy from me and I will be an advocate against that type of game play every chance I get.
Granted the last time I played WoW was vanilla so maybe I am WAY wrong, but the base price includes everything that is reasonably needed to play the game comfortably as far as end user experience.
I could not play BD without auto-looting pets due to AoE grind nature of the game for me - every minutes there are 30+ mobs dead that I'd have to click on without pets. It's pretty damn unplayable to me if I didn't have pets.
PvP treant suit is a also a must IMO. Instant rez tears can be hugely useful in situations where your group gets rolled in PvP and is about to lose a node or grind spot. Etc....
Maybe WoW is the same way today - there are things you must buy to make the game reasonably enjoyable, but I think that WoW includes everything in the base game.
That is the difference. Again i haven't played WoW in 10+ years so maybe I am just flat out wrong.
FYI WoW has a cash shop item called WoW Token that can be legally sold for ingame gold so that anyone can purchase gold for real money. Also if I'm not mistaken in WoW it's been legal to multibox with up to four accounts.
And although it's not legal a lot of players tend to go the botting route in that game. It's clearly noticable that even BG's are loaded with bots especially during nights.
Yet not many cry P2W due to the nature of a huge part of WoW's community. It always amazed me how the same people who remain silent about WoW's current business model bash on other games and call them P2W. I'm not talking about this particular "drama" about BDO offering some features through its cash shop but how a lot of WoW players tend to bash on every single MMO in general while they accept the fact that WoW has a fairly similar business model besides it's still being a monthly sub game. Some even talk about WoW being a good example of how MMOs should be offering paid services in 2016.
Of course I'm not saying that it's typical of WoW's community but it's clear that there is a vocal crowd among them that don't accept any paid features in MMOs but the ones in WoW, including paid server transfers, paid faction changes, legalized gold selling, paid max level characters, cash shop exclusive mounts, legally playing simultaneously on multiple accounts, annoying chat spams, (illegal) botting even in PvP and so on. It's just strange how people judge different games.
WoW isn't p2w because you can't get the best gear with gold. You could buy a million gold but still be a scrub struggling with tier 1 raids and getting 1 shot in pvp because in WoW, you have to earn the gear in-game, you don't just buy upgrades.
Never again asian games! They start as super awesome revolutionary games but every time i got burned.And eventually people realise that are just money sponge.Don't take my word just check the facts. Sorry for the fan boys that are gona rage over this.For the others peace and western games FTW!
Please be more specific. Saying "Asian games" is a very general accusation. Say "Asian mmos" instead. As far as i can tell most Asian non-mmos wipe the floor with most western non-mmo games,
Never again asian games! They start as super awesome revolutionary games but every time i got burned.And eventually people realise that are just money sponge.Don't take my word just check the facts. Sorry for the fan boys that are gona rage over this.For the others peace and western games FTW!
Please be more specific. Saying "Asian games" is a very general accusation. Say "Asian mmos" instead. As far as i can tell most Asian non-mmos wipe the floor with most western non-mmo games,
Permit me to counterbalance this by saying BDO is the best Asian MMORPG I've played, and I've been in many. Those who think it's a grind don't have a clue about what a real grind is... and definitely havent played Lineage 2 at release.
And i agree, i haven't enjoyed an mmo in a different way since forever. By different way i mean that its not the same leveling behavior from full themeparks. BDO is different, looks different, plays different. Its so good despite its flaws. Best experience ive had since GW2 launch. GW2 is my favorite mmo, and BDO is keeping me so hooked i already took another break from my mmo of choice.
I hate P2W in games, but i'm just not seeing it here. Hiding a name plate means nothing, I tend to hide name plates in every game as I find It more immersive and at no point do I feel disadvantaged. Auto looting pets and xp? Really? Auto loot is tog-gable in some games, also for the past few years people have been saying there's nothing wrong with XP potions and now it's a sudden problem? Why aren't there threads about other games that have XP potions or auto loot pets? Also the key goal of this game isn't leveling, so leveling fast means nothing.
When I see signs of them starting to head down that route, I'll be up in arms and back what you say, but right now nothing at this point is a problem.
When Arche Age was released a lot of people didn't see p2w there also. Shame though it was a good game.
This is poor selection bias. Trion is not Daum. They are different games.
It may be that BDO goes full ham on P2W, but using a "Archeage did it" argument is absolute garbage.
The lack / little of character appearance customization via gear is dumb. No argument there. Not sure if the others would damage my experience as much.
It is not the individual pieces that make it what it is. It the sum of the pieces. But you're all PvE so it really doesn't have any effect on you (yet).
Just enjoy the PvE until it ends at 45. Once you get to 45 you will start to see how hard it is to get to 46 without dealing with some rather bad behavior.
As stated elsewhere you think they are going to change things when they don't even ban people for being total jerks by killing people fighting the world boss?
The game is PvP deal with it.
I'm not all PvE, I'm against non-consensual PvP in MMORPGs. There is a difference. The difference between me and you, and the pro non-consensual PvP-centric players, is that when I want to get my PvP fix on, I go to where the big boys PvP, not some MMORPG where I can get my jollies off ganking players that aren't interested in PvPing with me. I'm confident of my PvP skills. I don't need to go around being an internet warrior bragging about how hard I can hit someone with my keyboard strikes. I realize its a game, but I reject the mentality that just because its a game I can go around being an ass hat to people, ganking players just for the lulz and ruining their game play.
I'm of the mentality that I actually feel bad about the notion of taking advantage of an unsuspecting PvEer who was minding his/her business fishing, tending to their farm, or engaging in non-combat related activities. That's not what I consider fun, that's abusive anti-social behavior. All I envision when I see that is a person sitting in front of a computer in their mommy's basement trying to compensate for what they lack in real life. Secure, confident, stable individuals don't need to go around trolling, trash talking, taking advantage of, or otherwise inconveniencing their fellow player's game time just to feel big and powerful. The better PvPers enjoy consensual PvP. Players arguing in support of non-consensual PvP get no sympathy from me and I will be an advocate against that type of game play every chance I get.
I am all for you dude. I have already quit. Can't move forward much now since at 50 it is just near impossible to do it without getting PK'ed three and four times a day. Spending more time going backwards than forward so screw it.
Comments
Another important thing about the (limited) p2w elements in the cash shop is that in the NA/EU version it is not some kind of endless money pit. For example the OP says the ghillie suit and pets are p2w: the suit is $29, and OP says pets are $24. Combined with the cost of the game itself that is still less than I spent on the box price for ESO before paying subs.
One of the main issues with p2w is when players have to spend a lot of money to keep up (eg items to improve rng on enchants), or can just outright buy the most powerful equipment in the game, either straight from the cash shop or by converting cash shop items or currency into game currency. BDO doesn't have any of that which by default makes it one of the least p2w mmos on the market.
That's five minutes of my life I'll never get back.
~~ postlarval ~~
Thank you for giving me this info..
I was close in buying this game. But had my doubts about it. Have heard some similar things about this game..
I remember when you payed a monthly fee to play a game.. And that worked just fine until some greedy people found a new way of making more money...
It really hurts reading about it over and over again..... ching ching...
Hard playing a game like that when you know it was better of with a monthly fee.. and it worked..
Thanks again.. Now i dont have to waste my money on a cash cow
Take WoW for example:
WoW base game: $25 ching ching!
Warlords: $30 ching ching!
Legion: $70 ching ching!
Pets: 12 * $11 ($120) ching ching!
Mounts: 10* $25 ($250) ching ching!
Level boost: $60 ching ching!
Every month: $15 ching ching!
Glad I am not wasting my money on that cash cow!
If BD doesn't have a good long-term plan, then I wouldn't play it at all.
Seeing as MMO's cost more to make than SPG's, it also makes sense that they will cost more to play. So to get the "full experience" in a so-called F2P game, you will need to spend 50% or 100% more than you would to play the "full version" of a SPG (even if the SPG has multiplayer or co-op).
There is no free lunch.
Similarly with WoW you might be fine with just the base game (and expansions you do need to buy those), but following the logic of the OP there would no doubt be people who felt they need to buy those other items, just as you feel the treant and pets are necessary for BDO.
Either way, WoW is more expensive, but neither game comes close to the cash grabbing of certain other games both released and still in development: and that is really my point.
And although it's not legal a lot of players tend to go the botting route in that game. It's clearly noticable that even BG's are loaded with bots especially during nights.
Yet not many cry P2W due to the nature of a huge part of WoW's community. It always amazed me how the same people who remain silent about WoW's current business model bash on other games and call them P2W. I'm not talking about this particular "drama" about BDO offering some features through its cash shop but how a lot of WoW players tend to bash on every single MMO in general while they accept the fact that WoW has a fairly similar business model besides it's still being a monthly sub game. Some even talk about WoW being a good example of how MMOs should be offering paid services in 2016.
Of course I'm not saying that it's typical of WoW's community but it's clear that there is a vocal crowd among them that don't accept any paid features in MMOs but the ones in WoW, including paid server transfers, paid faction changes, legalized gold selling, paid max level characters, cash shop exclusive mounts, legally playing simultaneously on multiple accounts, annoying chat spams, (illegal) botting even in PvP and so on. It's just strange how people judge different games.
We are certainly moving the P2W goal post when when we start calling convenience items such as pets with XP bonuses and auto loot, cosmetic gear customization with XP bonuses that are only available in the cash shop, and a suit that hides a players name, P2W.
How a pet that auto loots, or a costume that grants a player a minimal XP bonus, would ever be considered P2W is beyond me. The only advantage that pet, or costume, may give a player is that they may level faster. Even so, that is only contingent on the amount of playing time the player with that pet, or costume, has available to play. Those don't make a player more powerful, they just get them to top level faster. Is a costume with an XP bonus going to make a player who works, has a family, and only has a couple of hours to play a day more powerful than a player who is at home all day long playing 12 hours a day and not wearing one of these costumes? Not hardly. Even then, getting to the top faster will not have made that player more powerful. There are many players at top level with gimped characters. Getting to top level fast does not equal powerful.
If getting to the top fastest equaled P2W, then every game that offered a head start at release would be P2W, because those players starting the game at head start have a minimum four day head start advantage over the rest of the population that joins a game at release. Even so, that is all rendered neglible because MMORPGs have never been about a race to top level. If the game was about racing to top level, or about players winning by getting there first, then every game released since the advent of MMORPGs would be considered P2W because there are always players joining weeks, months, and years after a game has been released. There are players at max level with full BiS gear when many players are at level one going through the game tutorial in every MMORPG you play. Such is the nature of an MMORPG.
The Treant Suit is another example. This is an item that, although it may give a player a "strike-first" advantage, it does not make them more powerful. It doesn't have any stats. All it does is hide a players name. If a Treant Suit is P2W, then every game that offers PvP in a game with a population comprised primarily of PvE players is P2W. Because gankers will always have the advantage over unsuspecting PvE players. Yet you don't ever hear the PvP-centric player complain about that being P2W. Let them tell it, ganking is an integral part of OWPvP.
If you are defining P2W as any thing that gives one player an advantage over another, your definition of P2W is flawed. The key word is not "advantage." The key word is "power." As illustrated above, having an "advantage" over another is subjective. What one person considers an advantage, another may not. The only people that would consider items that give XP bonuses, or auto-looting, as P2W are people who consider being first to top level as "winning." Yet that has never been the purpose of an MMORPG. If true, that would mean that playing any MMORPG is an exercise in futility since only a handful of players are ever capable of being the first to get to top level in every MMORPG.
Long story short, although the definition of P2W has been watered down and given different variations of meaning by players with agendas and personal gaming preferences, there is only one true credible definition of P2W. And that is any game with a cash shop that offers items for sale that makes a player more powerful, that are not attainable, or otherwise remedied by other items offered in game, without the use of cash. Anything short of that, is just smoke and mirrors.
Just the weapon/gear upgrades design alone is enough p2w to completely turn me off besides it is a cheap idea and not a FUN idea so it just plain sucks with it's game design.
I thought we stopped with the +1 +3 swords 20 years ago but now devs are so cheap and lazy they are trying to bring it back.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just enjoy the PvE until it ends at 45. Once you get to 45 you will start to see how hard it is to get to 46 without dealing with some rather bad behavior.
As stated elsewhere you think they are going to change things when they don't even ban people for being total jerks by killing people fighting the world boss?
The game is PvP deal with it.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I'm not all PvE, I'm against non-consensual PvP in MMORPGs. There is a difference. The difference between me and you, and the pro non-consensual PvP-centric players, is that when I want to get my PvP fix on, I go to where the big boys PvP, not some MMORPG where I can get my jollies off ganking players that aren't interested in PvPing with me. I'm confident of my PvP skills. I don't need to go around being an internet warrior bragging about how hard I can hit someone with my keyboard strikes. I realize its a game, but I reject the mentality that just because its a game I can go around being an ass hat to people, ganking players just for the lulz and ruining their game play.
I'm of the mentality that I actually feel bad about the notion of taking advantage of an unsuspecting PvEer who was minding his/her business fishing, tending to their farm, or engaging in non-combat related activities. That's not what I consider fun, that's abusive anti-social behavior. All I envision when I see that is a person sitting in front of a computer in their mommy's basement trying to compensate for what they lack in real life. Secure, confident, stable individuals don't need to go around trolling, trash talking, taking advantage of, or otherwise inconveniencing their fellow player's game time just to feel big and powerful. The better PvPers enjoy consensual PvP. Players arguing in support of non-consensual PvP get no sympathy from me and I will be an advocate against that type of game play every chance I get.
Does this have anything to do with P2W? and how can you make a (cha ching!) when the game is very cheap.
What a troll post or the OP is a monkey.
It may be that BDO goes full ham on P2W, but using a "Archeage did it" argument is absolute garbage.
Best luck on your adventures in BDO.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.