I don't think most players fully understand the differences that will start to grow between the "hardcore" gamers and the casuals. As of right now a well geared lvl 51/52 can take down an entire group of lvl 50s...
I always find it hypocritical how PvPers are always pushing down everyone's throat how a game can not be a sandbox unless it has non-consensual FFA OWPvP, and that ganking is a part of the dog-eat-eat world, but then cry about unbalance and inequalities brought about by level requirements. How can PvPers consider a game a sandbox and yet expect PvP to be balanced and equal for all? In a sandbox, PvP should be just as unbalanced and unequal between PvPers, as the imbalance and inequality that exists between PvPers and PvEers.
If one player is able to put the effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger, then that player should be expected to take out any competition that has not put in the the same effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger. The inequalities that exists between a higher level PvPer and lower level PvPer is no different than the inequalities that exists between a PvP-centric player a PvE-centric player. In short, if you want to compete with the best, then put in the time that the best put in to become the best. "Hardcore" and "casuals" does not fit into the equation. You are either the best or you aren't. Being a casual is not an excuse. If you don't have the time to compete to be the best, then expect not to be the best. To believe otherwise is the very definition of entitlement.
PVP can be balanced in sandbox MMO's so long as gear and levels don't make an absolutely, horrifyingly, immense difference in power, which is unfortunately where BDO finds itself in terms of PVP. I'm not sure you fully understand how large of a role gear and level has in the outcome of PVP. A difference of two or three levels is nearly insurmountable let alone gear differences. And the part that more than likely irritates PVP'ers is that you are forced to do a metric shitton of very easy PVE grinding to stand a chance in PVP.
I don't think most players fully understand the differences that will start to grow between the "hardcore" gamers and the casuals. As of right now a well geared lvl 51/52 can take down an entire group of lvl 50s...
I always find it hypocritical how PvPers are always pushing down everyone's throat how a game can not be a sandbox unless it has non-consensual FFA OWPvP, and that ganking is a part of the dog-eat-eat world, but then cry about unbalance and inequalities brought about by level requirements. How can PvPers consider a game a sandbox and yet expect PvP to be balanced and equal for all? In a sandbox, PvP should be just as unbalanced and unequal between PvPers, as the imbalance and inequality that exists between PvPers and PvEers.
If one player is able to put the effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger, then that player should be expected to take out any competition that has not put in the the same effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger. The inequalities that exists between a higher level PvPer and lower level PvPer is no different than the inequalities that exists between a PvP-centric player a PvE-centric player. In short, if you want to compete with the best, then put in the time that the best put in to become the best. "Hardcore" and "casuals" does not fit into the equation. You are either the best or you aren't. Being a casual is not an excuse. If you don't have the time to compete to be the best, then expect not to be the best. To believe otherwise is the very definition of entitlement.
PVP can be balanced in sandbox MMO's so long as gear and levels don't make an absolutely, horrifyingly, immense difference in power, which is unfortunately where BDO finds itself in terms of PVP. I'm not sure you fully understand how large of a role gear and level has in the outcome of PVP. A difference of two or three levels is nearly insurmountable let alone gear differences. And the part that more than likely irritates PVP'ers is that you are forced to do a metric shitton of very easy PVE grinding to stand a chance in PVP.
I understand that but no one is keeping any one player from attaining the same level or gear as the next PvPer. If you want to be competitive, then your only option is to meet the competition. Again, MMORPGs are all about progression, not only in story and content, but in gear acquisition. That holds true for PvP as it does for PvE. That's what MMORPGs are all about. If you want PvP without level requirement or gear progression, then FPS or MOBAs have that level of PvP. If you come to an MMORPG looking for FPS type PvP, in that all you want to do is jump in and be as competitive in PvP as those who have put in the work in time and effort, to be the best, then you will be sorely dissappointed. That's not what MMORPGs are all about. MMORPGs are about journey, and the acquisition of power and items, through that journey.
Either the whole MMO community is toxic or just the BDO haters.
Seriously?
I know some of this has been out for awhile at other places but Daum did what 99% of the other developers couldnt do...they got something right.
The released a game (a month or so ago) with a few hiccups but nothing THAT major. Game was stable plenty of servers and it didnt crash. Now they have fixed most of the (widespread) issues that went on and I imagine plenty of personal issues individuals had.
Now they are releasing an update (into a stable game) at just about the time most people start to get bored of playing ANY new MMO, (the 4-6 week period).
It looks to me like theyre taking all the failures of the past oh 12 years or so and actually learning from them, something no other company has done yet. Granted this is a rehashed version of a game that has been out for almost two years now but still theyre not just throwing it out there on its own.
I still havent played it or bought it and despite some obvious cash grab crap they have pulled it still, for the 30 bucks looks to give plenty of play time. While I am not one of those guys who likes to say "xxx amount of hours for xxx amount of dollars is a good value'', to try and justify a crap game, I am on who can recognize when game makers are at least trying to do the right things or steer clear of disastrous decisions other companies made.
They could have held off launch for a few weeks and delivered all this on release (I would say half of the companies would have done that). Or they could have held the launch of this expansion/update off for another month or so and put in all the stuff the Eastern version has in it. (the other half of the companies making games would have chosen that option). But instead theyre putting out what is ready and will naturally have other stuff to add in a month or so (as the boredom factor once again kicks in) which cycles the game for a bit ,longer.
Now people can claim thats holding back or keeping stuff in the can, but its a buy to play game and at least this update appears to be free, so complaining about it is petty at best full retard at worst. I read the officia forums and the community there is just stupid, but thats what you get with games that have this many people, a lot of dummies floating around the forums who just like to invent stuff to piss and moan about.
Blade and soul has done the same, with even more updates and new class in a matter of a couple months. Not sure where you got this idea that only BDO has done this.
I don't think most players fully understand the differences that will start to grow between the "hardcore" gamers and the casuals. As of right now a well geared lvl 51/52 can take down an entire group of lvl 50s...
I always find it hypocritical how PvPers are always pushing down everyone's throat how a game can not be a sandbox unless it has non-consensual FFA OWPvP, and that ganking is a part of the dog-eat-eat world, but then cry about unbalance and inequalities brought about by level requirements. How can PvPers consider a game a sandbox and yet expect PvP to be balanced and equal for all? In a sandbox, PvP should be just as unbalanced and unequal between PvPers, as the imbalance and inequality that exists between PvPers and PvEers.
If one player is able to put the effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger, then that player should be expected to take out any competition that has not put in the the same effort into leveling, gearing up and getting stronger. The inequalities that exists between a higher level PvPer and lower level PvPer is no different than the inequalities that exists between a PvP-centric player a PvE-centric player. In short, if you want to compete with the best, then put in the time that the best put in to become the best. "Hardcore" and "casuals" does not fit into the equation. You are either the best or you aren't. Being a casual is not an excuse. If you don't have the time to compete to be the best, then expect not to be the best. To believe otherwise is the very definition of entitlement.
PVP can be balanced in sandbox MMO's so long as gear and levels don't make an absolutely, horrifyingly, immense difference in power, which is unfortunately where BDO finds itself in terms of PVP. I'm not sure you fully understand how large of a role gear and level has in the outcome of PVP. A difference of two or three levels is nearly insurmountable let alone gear differences. And the part that more than likely irritates PVP'ers is that you are forced to do a metric shitton of very easy PVE grinding to stand a chance in PVP.
I understand that but no one is keeping any one player from attaining the same level or gear as the next PvPer. If you want to be competitive, then your only option is to meet the competition. Again, MMORPGs are all about progression, not only in story and content, but in gear acquisition. That holds true for PvP as it does for PvE. That's what MMORPGs are all about. If you want PvP without level requirement or gear progression, then FPS or MOBAs have that level of PvP. If you come to an MMORPG looking for FPS type PvP, in that all you want to do is jump in and be as competitive in PvP as those who have put in the work in time and effort, to be the best, then you will be sorely dissappointed. That's not what MMORPGs are all about. MMORPGs are about journey, and the acquisition of power and items, through that journey.
It's not as black and white as you make it sound. I prefer vertical progression in MMORPGs. I don't like it when it makes as huge of a difference as it does in BDO, and I really don't like it when the only way to progress in PVP is to PVE. I like skill to be able to slant PVP encounters one way or the other, and in BDO skill is nearly meaningless unless you've done the requisite PVE grinding.
For example, a player in WoW could be wearing a mix-and-match of last season's PVP gear, but there's a potential his group can outplay mine. In BDO, if I'm a level down, I'm starting the fight at a large, but not insurmountable disadvantage. Two or three level disadvantage? I will get insta-gibbed. Add gear into the mix and things get even uglier.
It's just a bit disappointing that they made an awesome game, but decided to go the direction they did with PVP.
Blade and soul has done the same, with even more updates and new class in a matter of a couple months. Not sure where you got this idea that only BDO has done this.
Blade and Soul is blatant pay to win and its full of hacks and cheats. No comparison.
I understand that but no one is keeping any one player from attaining the same level or gear as the next PvPer. If you want to be competitive, then your only option is to meet the competition. Again, MMORPGs are all about progression, not only in story and content, but in gear acquisition. That holds true for PvP as it does for PvE. That's what MMORPGs are all about. If you want PvP without level requirement or gear progression, then FPS or MOBAs have that level of PvP. If you come to an MMORPG looking for FPS type PvP, in that all you want to do is jump in and be as competitive in PvP as those who have put in the work in time and effort, to be the best, then you will be sorely dissappointed. That's not what MMORPGs are all about. MMORPGs are about journey, and the acquisition of power and items, through that journey.
It's not as black and white as you make it sound. I prefer vertical progression in MMORPGs. I don't like it when it makes as huge of a difference as it does in BDO, and I really don't like it when the only way to progress in PVP is to PVE. I like skill to be able to slant PVP encounters one way or the other, and in BDO skill is nearly meaningless unless you've done the requisite PVE grinding.
For example, a player in WoW could be wearing a mix-and-match of last season's PVP gear, but there's a potential his group can outplay mine. In BDO, if I'm a level down, I'm starting the fight at a large, but not insurmountable disadvantage. Two or three level disadvantage? I will get insta-gibbed. Add gear into the mix and things get even uglier.
It's just a bit disappointing that they made an awesome game, but decided to go the direction they did with PVP.
It is as black and white as I make it sound. You just don't like it, and don't want to hear it. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion that PvP is better when it is competitive. That goes without saying. That's why those who want competitive PvP look for it in FPS and MOBAs , instead of trying to turn the whole concept of game play in MMORPGs to that of an FPS game, expecting to be competitive at every level.
The fact of the matter is, that that is not this game. And to change it would be to change the game into something that it is not. There are other MMORPGs that do that, but the PvP is more arena and BG based, not open world, and less gear dependent than BDO. A couple of examples of that type of PvP are BnS and GW2. I don't know how you would propose to implement equal and competitive PvP in an MMORPG that features leveling and weapon enhancements unless you make levels and gear a non-factor. There will always be level and gear disparity in MMORPGs featuring open world PvP. There is no way around it.
As long as they disallow trading this game will be a no play for many of us. Heck I would rather be bored stiff and play Wow than bother with this half baked implementation.
If Daum wants to fix this game, put in a sub fee and allow trading. I'd give it a go then. Just adding more quests and area still does not fix the basic problems it has. At the moment it's social aspect is a negative.
That would not be Daum it would be Pearl Abyss. Daum can't just make that decision.
And since Pearl Abyss are the developers, they have made the game the way they want.
I thought that Trade between players is allowed at Korean Version... I think the restrict is only EU/NA cause of Goldsellers that allegently are not a plague in Korean
As long as they disallow trading this game will be a no play for many of us. Heck I would rather be bored stiff and play Wow than bother with this half baked implementation.
If Daum wants to fix this game, put in a sub fee and allow trading. I'd give it a go then. Just adding more quests and area still does not fix the basic problems it has. At the moment it's social aspect is a negative.
My question is why would they fix something that so many people have already been able to accept? Why not just keep their current audience instead of trying to make people happy that haven't been happy from the start? Unlike what the forums may lead you to believe, the population of Black Desert is increasing rather than decreasing or at the very least it's stable.
I'm willing to bet that at this point and time most people enjoy the fact that people can't just buy gold (Granted they can still buy accounts...but there's only so much they can do.) Besides isn't this a good thing anyways?
Your opinion is your own, don't make it sound like you're talking for the community because it's "What we have been always asking for", no, it's what you're asking for. Know the difference.
As long as they disallow trading this game will be a no play for many of us. Heck I would rather be bored stiff and play Wow than bother with this half baked implementation.
If Daum wants to fix this game, put in a sub fee and allow trading. I'd give it a go then. Just adding more quests and area still does not fix the basic problems it has. At the moment it's social aspect is a negative.
That would not be Daum it would be Pearl Abyss. Daum can't just make that decision.
And since Pearl Abyss are the developers, they have made the game the way they want.
I thought that Trade between players is allowed at Korean Version... I think the restrict is only EU/NA cause of Goldsellers that allegently are not a plague in Korean
Word is the features disabled/not implemented that are "killing" the community are because of goldsellers. Being mindful that goldsellers exist as long as they are profitable. Which means gamers, within the game, are still buying from them.
Blade and soul has done the same, with even more updates and new class in a matter of a couple months. Not sure where you got this idea that only BDO has done this.
Blade and Soul is blatant pay to win and its full of hacks and cheats. No comparison.
I see this a lot and it's total BS. Yeah you can "P2W" in PVE if you want to spend $700 and get a mediocre weapon (or you could just spend a week to get the gold in game). If you want a top weapon you'd probably have to pay like $5,000, and you don't even need a top weapon for the content. In PVP, you literally cannot since it's equalized gear.
As for hacks and cheats, BDO is the one that had recent controversy about exploits, not BnS.
If you want to talk bots- OK, BnS has bots. Lots of them. But what you're saying is bullshit.
***
Anyway, on topic- this update and the entire focus of the future of BDO seems off the mark.
Many people are having tons of fun at level 25 or whatever, building boats, doing their thing. The game is supposedly revolutionary for not being a quest treadmill or a rush to cap.
Then here's a release that further rewards people that rushed to cap with 1,000 quests in it.
It seems the majority of the playerbase enjoys the middle of the game (at least many who post on forums/reddit), but the devs are pushing for a completely different playstyle at level cap, and with this update so soon, they're pushing for it fast.
Comments
I understand that but no one is keeping any one player from attaining the same level or gear as the next PvPer. If you want to be competitive, then your only option is to meet the competition. Again, MMORPGs are all about progression, not only in story and content, but in gear acquisition. That holds true for PvP as it does for PvE. That's what MMORPGs are all about. If you want PvP without level requirement or gear progression, then FPS or MOBAs have that level of PvP. If you come to an MMORPG looking for FPS type PvP, in that all you want to do is jump in and be as competitive in PvP as those who have put in the work in time and effort, to be the best, then you will be sorely dissappointed. That's not what MMORPGs are all about. MMORPGs are about journey, and the acquisition of power and items, through that journey.
For example, a player in WoW could be wearing a mix-and-match of last season's PVP gear, but there's a potential his group can outplay mine. In BDO, if I'm a level down, I'm starting the fight at a large, but not insurmountable disadvantage. Two or three level disadvantage? I will get insta-gibbed. Add gear into the mix and things get even uglier.
It's just a bit disappointing that they made an awesome game, but decided to go the direction they did with PVP.
It is as black and white as I make it sound. You just don't like it, and don't want to hear it. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion that PvP is better when it is competitive. That goes without saying. That's why those who want competitive PvP look for it in FPS and MOBAs , instead of trying to turn the whole concept of game play in MMORPGs to that of an FPS game, expecting to be competitive at every level.
The fact of the matter is, that that is not this game. And to change it would be to change the game into something that it is not. There are other MMORPGs that do that, but the PvP is more arena and BG based, not open world, and less gear dependent than BDO. A couple of examples of that type of PvP are BnS and GW2. I don't know how you would propose to implement equal and competitive PvP in an MMORPG that features leveling and weapon enhancements unless you make levels and gear a non-factor. There will always be level and gear disparity in MMORPGs featuring open world PvP. There is no way around it.
I thought that Trade between players is allowed at Korean Version... I think the restrict is only EU/NA cause of Goldsellers that allegently are not a plague in Korean
My question is why would they fix something that so many people have already been able to accept? Why not just keep their current audience instead of trying to make people happy that haven't been happy from the start? Unlike what the forums may lead you to believe, the population of Black Desert is increasing rather than decreasing or at the very least it's stable.
I'm willing to bet that at this point and time most people enjoy the fact that people can't just buy gold (Granted they can still buy accounts...but there's only so much they can do.) Besides isn't this a good thing anyways?
Your opinion is your own, don't make it sound like you're talking for the community because it's "What we have been always asking for", no, it's what you're asking for. Know the difference.
tough,,i must admit, i enjoyed Heidel a lot... I am still awed by Calpheon..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I see this a lot and it's total BS. Yeah you can "P2W" in PVE if you want to spend $700 and get a mediocre weapon (or you could just spend a week to get the gold in game). If you want a top weapon you'd probably have to pay like $5,000, and you don't even need a top weapon for the content. In PVP, you literally cannot since it's equalized gear.
As for hacks and cheats, BDO is the one that had recent controversy about exploits, not BnS.
If you want to talk bots- OK, BnS has bots. Lots of them. But what you're saying is bullshit.
***
Anyway, on topic- this update and the entire focus of the future of BDO seems off the mark.
Many people are having tons of fun at level 25 or whatever, building boats, doing their thing. The game is supposedly revolutionary for not being a quest treadmill or a rush to cap.
Then here's a release that further rewards people that rushed to cap with 1,000 quests in it.
It seems the majority of the playerbase enjoys the middle of the game (at least many who post on forums/reddit), but the devs are pushing for a completely different playstyle at level cap, and with this update so soon, they're pushing for it fast.
It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.