This changes nothing. I'll continue rolling on pirated Vanilla servers until Blizzard offers me an official one. I've already started following another Vanilla project, and they plan to host in a country that Blizz can't touch.
Vanilla WoW is my favorite MMO. Some laws are bad, this is one of them. Go ahead and hide behind the law, Blizzard, you're still wrong.
Have fun...hope your id gets stolen....
It's not nice to say things like that and you don't add any meaningful discussion to thread. Like what do you get out of saying something like that? If you really believe that he can get his ID stolen, actually you should be concerned and you could explain how it would be possible and maybe even convince them to reconsider. If you don't want to do that and basically just insult them instead, then maybe you shouldn't respond. You have some issues.
Whys that ,, They are stealing , the irony to go to a Russian Vanilla server to get ID stolen is kinda funny and would serve them right .. ...
This changes nothing. I'll continue rolling on pirated Vanilla servers until Blizzard offers me an official one. I've already started following another Vanilla project, and they plan to host in a country that Blizz can't touch.
Vanilla WoW is my favorite MMO. Some laws are bad, this is one of them. Go ahead and hide behind the law, Blizzard, you're still wrong.
Have fun...hope your id gets stolen....
It's not nice to say things like that and you don't add any meaningful discussion to thread. Like what do you get out of saying something like that? If you really believe that he can get his ID stolen, actually you should be concerned and you could explain how it would be possible and maybe even convince them to reconsider. If you don't want to do that and basically just insult them instead, then maybe you shouldn't respond. You have some issues.
To be politically correct he should of said
"Have fun...hope your id doesn't get stolen"
edit: Dealing with places that don't respect international laws, usually doesn't end well.
This changes nothing. I'll continue rolling on pirated Vanilla servers until Blizzard offers me an official one. I've already started following another Vanilla project, and they plan to host in a country that Blizz can't touch.
Vanilla WoW is my favorite MMO. Some laws are bad, this is one of them. Go ahead and hide behind the law, Blizzard, you're still wrong.
Have fun...hope your id gets stolen....
It's not nice to say things like that and you don't add any meaningful discussion to thread. Like what do you get out of saying something like that? If you really believe that he can get his ID stolen, actually you should be concerned and you could explain how it would be possible and maybe even convince them to reconsider. If you don't want to do that and basically just insult them instead, then maybe you shouldn't respond. You have some issues.
if someone is willing to break the law by running to an unsavory country so that they can participate in illicit activities then they get what they get. I have no sympathy for people when they make choices that end up harming them in the end. I find guys on motorcycles that speed and do stunts then die in accidents doing them funny. I find people that use private servers in Russia or other places knows for hacking, identity theft schemes, and credit card theft to be funny also.
We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC that formally recognizes Project 1999 as a fan based, not-for-profit, classic EverQuest emulation project.
Interesting thing is, Daybreak/Everquest actually has Legacy servers that Project 1999 could be said to be in direct competition with.
And yet here, Daybreak is saying, no harm no foul.
Turbine keeps Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2 open out of corporate loyalty to their origins. They are even working on packaging Asheron's Call from their end so that it can be released to the private server community.
As someone pointed out, Blizzard caters to their shareholders, not their customers. That's their right, but as a mega-corporation who thinks a Legacy server is not worth their time or profit margin and who chooses to pay lawyers instead of a couple programmers to maintain a Legacy server, I feel they are missing out on a lot of potential customers and goodwill.
If *I* was a shareholder, I'd be more concerned over Blizzards refusal to even consider a Legacy server and less about a fan based emulation project.
We need to start thinking of MMO's as we do music or literature or the movies. There is not one MMO or one game that will be universally satisfactory to everyone's taste. MMO's don't come in one genre just as books or music doesn't come in one genre. Change and innovation is a good thing in the MMO industry just as it is in literature and music, but every MMO doesn't need to push the envelope or be cutting edge to be "good" or fun. It just needs to be good. The same is true for music. The same is true for books or for movies. Music evolves. MMO's evolve. Storytelling evolves. And in doing so, it doesn't make obsolete or not enjoyable everything that's been done before.
This changes nothing. I'll continue rolling on pirated Vanilla servers until Blizzard offers me an official one. I've already started following another Vanilla project, and they plan to host in a country that Blizz can't touch.
Vanilla WoW is my favorite MMO. Some laws are bad, this is one of them. Go ahead and hide behind the law, Blizzard, you're still wrong.
Have fun...hope your id gets stolen....
It's not nice to say things like that and you don't add any meaningful discussion to thread. Like what do you get out of saying something like that? If you really believe that he can get his ID stolen, actually you should be concerned and you could explain how it would be possible and maybe even convince them to reconsider. If you don't want to do that and basically just insult them instead, then maybe you shouldn't respond. You have some issues.
if someone is willing to break the law by running to an unsavory country so that they can participate in illicit activities then they get what they get. I have no sympathy for people when they make choices that end up harming them in the end. I find guys on motorcycles that speed and do stunts then die in accidents doing them funny. I find people that use private servers in Russia or other places knows for hacking, identity theft schemes, and credit card theft to be funny also.
being an ass about it doesn't exactly make you noble... after looking around various forums with this topic and seeing the so called "defenders" of blizzard issuing death threats and the likes i cant see myself feeling sympathetic to blizzard. most people aren't impacted by this one bit yet they go around seeking to degrade everyone involved in this. what's up with that?
I am also willing to pay but you Dan and I and people like us who will pay are a minority. That is the reason they will not offer it. if we represented a lucrative market they would do it in a heartbeat. It's pipe dreams to think we represent a significant portion of the market.
I dont think we are in the minority, but we are not the majority either. We are a sector of the market is what I am saying. Is it lucrative and going to bring their stock up $10 per, Hell no. Is there at least a handful of servers plus maintenance worth of income for them. Yes.
The PROBLEM again is they are putting Stockholders first Customers last. If Blizzard was a privately held company today they would go after this sector because they will not be looking to make 30%+ margin on this market. They might make between 10% to 20%. Hell I bet they could make more by asking community members to become part time Blizzard employees. For example I am an IT guy, yes I am a windows guy and they likely build WOW On UNIX. But if WOW was on windows and they needed me to come in for 10 hours a year and gave me 2 months free access I would do it. I wouldnt doubt there are some Developers out there that might do the same.
You paint a nice picture of a "couple of servers" but that doesn't take into account the resources used and the return vs resources/return in another area. Suppose you get X back on nostalgia server and X+20% using those resources on a current product or X+40% on a new project?
Someone might suggest it would be "nice" to have the vanilla for the "fans" but you can't pay employees, taxes and other expenses with nice. Money does a great job of that and maximizing it makes sense.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I bet if they released a Vanilla classic server with harder to get loot tables, and possibly adding more loot idk. I can definitely see a lot backing that.
Even make the mobs harder.
Look to RS and other games to see the paths they went.
Well Everquest servers that used their vanilla version were packed initially and then they dwindle over time. If this type of servers were able to make a lot of money for Blizzard they would do it. They are in a better position from their own studies of the market and yet they do not offer it. Perhaps they do have an insight on how these populations do not last after the first few months.
I think companies are better suited to know their market then players who only see things from their perspective.
I also agree with your idea that a lot of players would not pay to play vanilla. They play on these servers because it's free. They may not even prefer vanilla, but they play there because they can get a decent enough experience without having to fork over cash.
The lack of overwhelming success for the EQ TLP and EQ2 TLE servers should be noted. There wasn't a mass conversion from p99 over to EQ TLP. A lot of TLP and TLE players were already All Access members with characters on Live. So all that accomplished was fracturing the community and increasing resource load.
I have to disagree with you here, Torval. There are far too many good F2P or B2P MMORPGs to think these people go through the trouble and risk of a private server just to play for free.
And DBG's bonehead move wasn't that they embraced the classic idea, but that they didn't just co-opt P99 as an official server. Maybe they just didn't reach an acceptable agreement with the P99 team, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that folks who had invested time in P99 weren't gonna drop everything to come to an official classic server without some kind of additional incentive. It wouldn't make any sense on the player's part.
Well Everquest servers that used their vanilla version were packed initially and then they dwindle over time. If this type of servers were able to make a lot of money for Blizzard they would do it. They are in a better position from their own studies of the market and yet they do not offer it. Perhaps they do have an insight on how these populations do not last after the first few months.
I think companies are better suited to know their market then players who only see things from their perspective.
I also agree with your idea that a lot of players would not pay to play vanilla. They play on these servers because it's free. They may not even prefer vanilla, but they play there because they can get a decent enough experience without having to fork over cash.
The lack of overwhelming success for the EQ TLP and EQ2 TLE servers should be noted. There wasn't a mass conversion from p99 over to EQ TLP. A lot of TLP and TLE players were already All Access members with characters on Live. So all that accomplished was fracturing the community and increasing resource load.
I have to disagree with you here, Torval. There are far too many good F2P or B2P MMORPGs to think these people go through the trouble and risk of a private server just to play for free.
And DBG's bonehead move wasn't that they embraced the classic idea, but that they didn't just co-opt P99 as an official server. Maybe they just didn't reach an acceptable agreement with the P99 team, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that folks who had invested time in P99 weren't gonna drop everything to come to an official classic server without some kind of additional incentive. It wouldn't make any sense on the player's part.
I do see your point, and you could be right, but I still disagree. I think people play WoW because it's what they know. They're established in the game and on those servers.
Something to consider is that if people weren't willing to leave their progress on p99 why would they do so for official WoW vanilla servers? It's understandable that people don't want to throw away their progress, guilds, social structure, and server community for that. I think it's a huge reason for WoW's long term momentum. Doesn't that sort of work against taking the time, expense, and risk of opening vanilla servers?
So that begs the question, are all the people saying they would pay and play official WoW vanilla being honest? Would people really play them or continue to play for free?
What if Blizzard offered the Vanilla servers included in your monthly sub? how many subs would they gain?
I also believe another solution would be for Blizzard to license private vanilla servers. Maybe be payed some kind of a royalty and have ground rules that must be followed.
edit: I absolutely believe that Blizzard should offer some way for people to play the product that they payed Blizzard for.
Todays WoW is nothing like the product I purchased back in 2004
I also believe another solution would be for Blizzard to license private vanilla servers. Maybe be payed some kind of a royalty and have ground rules that must be followed.
edit: I absolutely believe that Blizzard should offer some way for people to play the product that they payed Blizzard for.
Todays WoW is nothing like the product I purchased back in 2004
yea man , ya know , i want Ford to release a vanilla Mustang because the one they are selling now is nothing like the product i bought in 1984... aint that rich ..wtf
I also believe another solution would be for Blizzard to license private vanilla servers. Maybe be payed some kind of a royalty and have ground rules that must be followed.
edit: I absolutely believe that Blizzard should offer some way for people to play the product that they payed Blizzard for.
Todays WoW is nothing like the product I purchased back in 2004
yea man , ya know , i want Ford to release a vanilla Mustang because the one they are selling now is nothing like the product i bought in 1984... aint that rich ..wtf
Ya well ya know man, My kid has got one of them 1984 ford mustangs and he can still drive it and repair it if need be.
I would bet if you wanted a Vanilla server they would want more commitment from people than a monthly sub for its development and upkeep. What if they wanted a year sub that is $180?
Again I am willing to pay $20 to $30 a month for a Vanilla\TBC Sub As long as I could do both times Vanilla and TBC servers and no cash shop. The only other catch is making sure they do fix bugs and keep it up dated. I am fine with paying a sub. Right now I am paying one for myself in FFXIV and my wife is paying for her FFXIV sub. Now if they put a cash shop in I would had a problem with a more expensive sub, well outside of the Charity Mounts deal, if they want to add in the $20 mount where $19 go to cancer research or something I am cool with that.
your 40 or 60 for 2 months of nostalgia does not a server deserve.
Sorry but I would likely be playing for a few years. I been playing FFXIV again Since Dec 2014 because its a hell of a lot better game than WOW is today. Wrong again. You are just throwing darts at a dart board because you THINK you know something, I am telling you I know because I truly do. I been playing MMOs for a long time, I made many friends over the years, still talk to many a few times a year, I understand why they liked Vanilla TBC WOW so much even if somethings would need to change today. I spent so many hours on forums and talking to people there, I talk to people who dont talk on the forums. You are listening to a business who puts stockholders before the customer. That's bad business and which is what is wrong with our economy.
then fork over the years sub to show loyalty to the product....
What is wrong with our economy is that people want everything for free not understanding the cost that goes into making, sustaining, or employing people.
Blizzard already got their money from the game. I would not call $49.99 or what ever vanilla used to cost for the initial game, when it first came out, free. Blizzard said they were not going to release a vanilla server so the private servers took over where Blizzard refused to. The private servers have proven that people were willing to play old content and people have donated to those servers for upkeep and running costs. There is a community that does want vanilla content not the updated garbage Blizzard has given us. They are the ones who dropped the ball not us.
We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC that formally recognizes Project 1999 as a fan based, not-for-profit, classic EverQuest emulation project.
Interesting thing is, Daybreak/Everquest actually has Legacy servers that Project 1999 could be said to be in direct competition with.
And yet here, Daybreak is saying, no harm no foul.
Turbine keeps Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2 open out of corporate loyalty to their origins. They are even working on packaging Asheron's Call from their end so that it can be released to the private server community.
As someone pointed out, Blizzard caters to their shareholders, not their customers. That's their right, but as a mega-corporation who thinks a Legacy server is not worth their time or profit margin and who chooses to pay lawyers instead of a couple programmers to maintain a Legacy server, I feel they are missing out on a lot of potential customers and goodwill.
If *I* was a shareholder, I'd be more concerned over Blizzards refusal to even consider a Legacy server and less about a fan based emulation project.
How much money is Everquest really making for the company. It sounds more like it is not worth it for them to stop cause the game is not worth that much to them.
This changes nothing. I'll continue rolling on pirated Vanilla servers until Blizzard offers me an official one. I've already started following another Vanilla project, and they plan to host in a country that Blizz can't touch.
Vanilla WoW is my favorite MMO. Some laws are bad, this is one of them. Go ahead and hide behind the law, Blizzard, you're still wrong.
Have fun...hope your id gets stolen....
It's not nice to say things like that and you don't add any meaningful discussion to thread. Like what do you get out of saying something like that? If you really believe that he can get his ID stolen, actually you should be concerned and you could explain how it would be possible and maybe even convince them to reconsider. If you don't want to do that and basically just insult them instead, then maybe you shouldn't respond. You have some issues.
if someone is willing to break the law by running to an unsavory country so that they can participate in illicit activities then they get what they get. I have no sympathy for people when they make choices that end up harming them in the end. I find guys on motorcycles that speed and do stunts then die in accidents doing them funny. I find people that use private servers in Russia or other places knows for hacking, identity theft schemes, and credit card theft to be funny also.
being an ass about it doesn't exactly make you noble... after looking around various forums with this topic and seeing the so called "defenders" of blizzard issuing death threats and the likes i cant see myself feeling sympathetic to blizzard. most people aren't impacted by this one bit yet they go around seeking to degrade everyone involved in this. what's up with that?
where are the death threats? Hyperbolize much? Some actually believe to protect all we actually have to protect all. That includes people and business. We do not pick and choose who gets protection under the law on whims. That is not noble.
I also believe another solution would be for Blizzard to license private vanilla servers. Maybe be payed some kind of a royalty and have ground rules that must be followed.
edit: I absolutely believe that Blizzard should offer some way for people to play the product that they payed Blizzard for.
Todays WoW is nothing like the product I purchased back in 2004
The game changed. When bought it said experience may change. You were not under the illusion it would stay the same. They are under no obligation to make it the way you want it.
I would bet if you wanted a Vanilla server they would want more commitment from people than a monthly sub for its development and upkeep. What if they wanted a year sub that is $180?
Again I am willing to pay $20 to $30 a month for a Vanilla\TBC Sub As long as I could do both times Vanilla and TBC servers and no cash shop. The only other catch is making sure they do fix bugs and keep it up dated. I am fine with paying a sub. Right now I am paying one for myself in FFXIV and my wife is paying for her FFXIV sub. Now if they put a cash shop in I would had a problem with a more expensive sub, well outside of the Charity Mounts deal, if they want to add in the $20 mount where $19 go to cancer research or something I am cool with that.
your 40 or 60 for 2 months of nostalgia does not a server deserve.
Sorry but I would likely be playing for a few years. I been playing FFXIV again Since Dec 2014 because its a hell of a lot better game than WOW is today. Wrong again. You are just throwing darts at a dart board because you THINK you know something, I am telling you I know because I truly do. I been playing MMOs for a long time, I made many friends over the years, still talk to many a few times a year, I understand why they liked Vanilla TBC WOW so much even if somethings would need to change today. I spent so many hours on forums and talking to people there, I talk to people who dont talk on the forums. You are listening to a business who puts stockholders before the customer. That's bad business and which is what is wrong with our economy.
then fork over the years sub to show loyalty to the product....
What is wrong with our economy is that people want everything for free not understanding the cost that goes into making, sustaining, or employing people.
Blizzard already got their money from the game. I would not call $49.99 or what ever vanilla used to cost for the initial game, when it first came out, free. Blizzard said they were not going to release a vanilla server so the private servers took over where Blizzard refused to. The private servers have proven that people were willing to play old content and people have donated to those servers for upkeep and running costs. There is a community that does want vanilla content not the updated garbage Blizzard has given us. They are the ones who dropped the ball not us.
they did not "drop the ball". The actively choose not to go down that road. If you do not like it you leave. If they want they can make one. Nothing gives you the right to break the law in this case.
Hope they get sued and anyone touching the code gets sued.
Why do you wish ill on someone for something as innocuous as a private server of the 10 yr old version of the game. Unreal.
there stealing , and they are stealing money right out of the pockets of Activision/Blizz shareholders which i happen to be one .. and Blizz has to answer for that ...
I'd like to throw my 2 cent in that While paying for an active sub that gets maybe close to 3 hours play time a month. Playing on a no longer available copy of a game that is non profit is only stealing if blizzard offered this service and people were paying Nost to play on it. I some how doubt if every private vanilla wow server disappeared blizzard would bounce out of their hole, people would just be forced to move on and support what ever game they felt fits their need for community and the feeling they are actually playing an mmo.
Ironically this is very much like IRL atm, Blizzard destroys a community (talking real guilds not bots and gold spammers, also blizzard in their terms have every right to cling on to data they've admitted themselves they can't remake without countless hours so on and so on) This community now exiled from their home is all over the place seeking refuge. While there's a fair amount of good places to call home, a lot of these other communities don't want to take the refugee's in. Illuminati confirmed!
Hope they get sued and anyone touching the code gets sued.
Why do you wish ill on someone for something as innocuous as a private server of the 10 yr old version of the game. Unreal.
there stealing , and they are stealing money right out of the pockets of Activision/Blizz shareholders which i happen to be one .. and Blizz has to answer for that ...
I'd like to throw my 2 cent in that While paying for an active sub that gets maybe close to 3 hours play time a month. Playing on a no longer available copy of a game that is non profit is only stealing if blizzard offered this service and people were paying Nost to play on it. I some how doubt if every private vanilla wow server disappeared blizzard would bounce out of their hole, people would just be forced to move on and support what ever game they felt fits their need for community and the feeling they are actually playing an mmo.
Ironically this is very much like IRL atm, Blizzard destroys a community (talking real guilds not bots and gold spammers, also blizzard in their terms have every right to cling on to data they've admitted themselves they can't remake without countless hours so on and so on) This community now exiled from their home is all over the place seeking refuge. While there's a fair amount of good places to call home, a lot of these other communities don't want to take the refugee's in. Illuminati confirmed!
Communities cast adrift from their war torn country of Syria...wait a minute...no these are people in a game not some real world issue that is life and death. Their game changed...boo hoo...your balloon got popped now you think you can go rob the store for the balloon again.
Theft does not have to involve money...joyriding in a car you have no intent to sell is theft. That is what people are doing in Blizzard's car. If you do not care then leave your car unlocked or bike available so people can use it. So long as they are not profiting from it there is no theft, according to you.
Hope they get sued and anyone touching the code gets sued.
Why do you wish ill on someone for something as innocuous as a private server of the 10 yr old version of the game. Unreal.
there stealing , and they are stealing money right out of the pockets of Activision/Blizz shareholders which i happen to be one .. and Blizz has to answer for that ...
I'd like to throw my 2 cent in that While paying for an active sub that gets maybe close to 3 hours play time a month. Playing on a no longer available copy of a game that is non profit is only stealing if blizzard offered this service and people were paying Nost to play on it. I some how doubt if every private vanilla wow server disappeared blizzard would bounce out of their hole, people would just be forced to move on and support what ever game they felt fits their need for community and the feeling they are actually playing an mmo.
Ironically this is very much like IRL atm, Blizzard destroys a community (talking real guilds not bots and gold spammers, also blizzard in their terms have every right to cling on to data they've admitted themselves they can't remake without countless hours so on and so on) This community now exiled from their home is all over the place seeking refuge. While there's a fair amount of good places to call home, a lot of these other communities don't want to take the refugee's in. Illuminati confirmed!
Communities cast adrift from their war torn country of Syria...wait a minute...no these are people in a game not some real world issue that is life and death. Their game changed...boo hoo...your balloon got popped now you think you can go rob the store for the balloon again.
Theft does not have to involve money...joyriding in a car you have no intent to sell is theft. That is what people are doing in Blizzard's car. If you do not care then leave your car unlocked or bike available so people can use it. So long as they are not profiting from it there is no theft, according to you.
I don't think you fully grasp society of today, people kill themselves over facebook... A web domain can cost more than a house... The internet has become integrated so deeply into people's lives that this ordeal may/could of caused a death or two due to how emotionally attached to these games people get. While alcoholics can attach their problems to a disease, Gambling is a disease. These people are no different.
Most of this is all hypocrisy anyways and pot calling the kettle black. How many of these people so mad at a community for breaking the law, break the law day in and day out. Probably one of these White knights is watching pirated movies on their second montior as they type.
If I had a car that I built with my own two hands and then decided to take out the engine and place it in a new car, then tossing the remains of my old car in the trash; if someone comes along and pulls it out of said trash and takes it home cleans it up and restores it by all means best of luck to ya, I have no intents on ever using it again.
Blizzard has stated they have no intent's of using vanilla WoW, and the current state of Vanilla WoW would be considered Cataclysm WoW because the original zones have all been redesigned.
I do see your point, and you could be right, but I still disagree. I think people play WoW because it's what they know. They're established in the game and on those servers.
Something to consider is that if people weren't willing to leave their progress on p99 why would they do so for official WoW vanilla servers? It's understandable that people don't want to throw away their progress, guilds, social structure, and server community for that. I think it's a huge reason for WoW's long term momentum. Doesn't that sort of work against taking the time, expense, and risk of opening vanilla servers?
So that begs the question, are all the people saying they would pay and play official WoW vanilla being honest? Would people really play them or continue to play for free?
Well, ideally, Blizzard would just reach an agreement with the Nostralius team to cooperate going forward and no one would have to give up any progress. Just like DBG should've simply reached an agreement to endorse P99 and not force anyone to move, Blizz could've found a way to endorse Nostralius. I could see Nostralius going to their community with something like "Hey, Blizzard is either gonna shut us down or reach a deal with us. Here's the deal: You guys pay a minimal sub (say, $5 a month) and we continue the server with more support resources available to fix bugs/upgrade infrastructure/what have you and an official endorsement from Blizzard to attract even more players and legitimize our beloved server. Other than that, nothing changes going forward, cool?"
While there would always be some who would become weary of Blizzard reaching back into their vanilla server, no one would give up progress, the vanilla server game would improve and at a faster rate, and folks would be out only $5 a month just to keep the lights on reliably and maybe kickback any extra cash to Blizz so they can justify it to their shareholders. That kind of deal seems a much better compromise than simply cherry-picking a server to C&D like Blizzard has done.
And there is precedent for such a move. Team Fortress, Natural Selection, Day of Defeat... All of these began as insanely popular HL mods, and all are now made by the developers that were absorbed by Valve. They weren't MMORPGs, and they were full conversions of the HL game, but I see no large reason (unless they try to charge a full $15 a month sub) a similar agreement couldn't have worked for this situation. The IP moral argument seems laughable, to me, considering the origins of the Warcraft universe.
Communities cast adrift from their war torn country of Syria...wait a minute...no these are people in a game not some real world issue that is life and death. Their game changed...boo hoo...your balloon got popped now you think you can go rob the store for the balloon again.
Theft does not have to involve money...joyriding in a car you have no intent to sell is theft. That is what people are doing in Blizzard's car. If you do not care then leave your car unlocked or bike available so people can use it. So long as they are not profiting from it there is no theft, according to you.
While I agree with you legally speaking, Blizzard basically took Games Workshop's car schematics, slapped a different logo and name on it, and is making fortunes off of it. So, morally speaking, I don't feel too sorry for Blizzard here, considering how small potatoes this server was in the scheme of things.
Boyott blizzard, together we can change things. But ur all drug addicts, so it wont happen, junkies dont boycott their drugdealer. So this is a lost course. Bend over and obey i guess. OR BOYCOTT THEM FOR GREEDY ACTS LIKE THAT.
Boyott blizzard, together we can change things. But ur all drug addicts, so it wont happen, junkies dont boycott their drugdealer. So this is a lost course. Bend over and obey i guess. OR BOYCOTT THEM FOR GREEDY ACTS LIKE THAT.
Their game. Their company. Their choice to choose not to run classic servers and to exercise their legal rights to shut down private ones. Time to move on.
The drug addict analogy is rather ironic given that you seem to be just as driven to return to the past as Blizzard is to keep the game moving forward.
Comments
"Have fun...hope your id doesn't get stolen"
edit: Dealing with places that don't respect international laws, usually doesn't end well.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
We have recently entered into a written agreement with Daybreak Game Company LLC that formally recognizes Project 1999 as a fan based, not-for-profit, classic EverQuest emulation project.
Interesting thing is, Daybreak/Everquest actually has Legacy servers that Project 1999 could be said to be in direct competition with.
And yet here, Daybreak is saying, no harm no foul.
Turbine keeps Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2 open out of corporate loyalty to their origins. They are even working on packaging Asheron's Call from their end so that it can be released to the private server community.
As someone pointed out, Blizzard caters to their shareholders, not their customers. That's their right, but as a mega-corporation who thinks a Legacy server is not worth their time or profit margin and who chooses to pay lawyers instead of a couple programmers to maintain a Legacy server, I feel they are missing out on a lot of potential customers and goodwill.
If *I* was a shareholder, I'd be more concerned over Blizzards refusal to even consider a Legacy server and less about a fan based emulation project.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
You paint a nice picture of a "couple of servers" but that doesn't take into account the resources used and the return vs resources/return in another area. Suppose you get X back on nostalgia server and X+20% using those resources on a current product or X+40% on a new project?
Someone might suggest it would be "nice" to have the vanilla for the "fans" but you can't pay employees, taxes and other expenses with nice. Money does a great job of that and maximizing it makes sense.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Even make the mobs harder.
Look to RS and other games to see the paths they went.
And DBG's bonehead move wasn't that they embraced the classic idea, but that they didn't just co-opt P99 as an official server. Maybe they just didn't reach an acceptable agreement with the P99 team, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that folks who had invested time in P99 weren't gonna drop everything to come to an official classic server without some kind of additional incentive. It wouldn't make any sense on the player's part.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
edit: I absolutely believe that Blizzard should offer some way for people to play the product that they payed Blizzard for.
Todays WoW is nothing like the product I purchased back in 2004
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
WTF
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
How much money is Everquest really making for the company. It sounds more like it is not worth it for them to stop cause the game is not worth that much to them.
The game changed. When bought it said experience may change. You were not under the illusion it would stay the same. They are under no obligation to make it the way you want it.
they did not "drop the ball". The actively choose not to go down that road. If you do not like it you leave. If they want they can make one. Nothing gives you the right to break the law in this case.
I'd like to throw my 2 cent in that While paying for an active sub that gets maybe close to 3 hours play time a month. Playing on a no longer available copy of a game that is non profit is only stealing if blizzard offered this service and people were paying Nost to play on it. I some how doubt if every private vanilla wow server disappeared blizzard would bounce out of their hole, people would just be forced to move on and support what ever game they felt fits their need for community and the feeling they are actually playing an mmo.
Ironically this is very much like IRL atm, Blizzard destroys a community (talking real guilds not bots and gold spammers, also blizzard in their terms have every right to cling on to data they've admitted themselves they can't remake without countless hours so on and so on) This community now exiled from their home is all over the place seeking refuge. While there's a fair amount of good places to call home, a lot of these other communities don't want to take the refugee's in. Illuminati confirmed!
Communities cast adrift from their war torn country of Syria...wait a minute...no these are people in a game not some real world issue that is life and death. Their game changed...boo hoo...your balloon got popped now you think you can go rob the store for the balloon again.
Theft does not have to involve money...joyriding in a car you have no intent to sell is theft. That is what people are doing in Blizzard's car. If you do not care then leave your car unlocked or bike available so people can use it. So long as they are not profiting from it there is no theft, according to you.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Most of this is all hypocrisy anyways and pot calling the kettle black. How many of these people so mad at a community for breaking the law, break the law day in and day out. Probably one of these White knights is watching pirated movies on their second montior as they type.
If I had a car that I built with my own two hands and then decided to take out the engine and place it in a new car, then tossing the remains of my old car in the trash; if someone comes along and pulls it out of said trash and takes it home cleans it up and restores it by all means best of luck to ya, I have no intents on ever using it again.
Blizzard has stated they have no intent's of using vanilla WoW, and the current state of Vanilla WoW would be considered Cataclysm WoW because the original zones have all been redesigned.
While there would always be some who would become weary of Blizzard reaching back into their vanilla server, no one would give up progress, the vanilla server game would improve and at a faster rate, and folks would be out only $5 a month just to keep the lights on reliably and maybe kickback any extra cash to Blizz so they can justify it to their shareholders. That kind of deal seems a much better compromise than simply cherry-picking a server to C&D like Blizzard has done.
And there is precedent for such a move. Team Fortress, Natural Selection, Day of Defeat... All of these began as insanely popular HL mods, and all are now made by the developers that were absorbed by Valve. They weren't MMORPGs, and they were full conversions of the HL game, but I see no large reason (unless they try to charge a full $15 a month sub) a similar agreement couldn't have worked for this situation. The IP moral argument seems laughable, to me, considering the origins of the Warcraft universe.
While I agree with you legally speaking, Blizzard basically took Games Workshop's car schematics, slapped a different logo and name on it, and is making fortunes off of it. So, morally speaking, I don't feel too sorry for Blizzard here, considering how small potatoes this server was in the scheme of things.
The drug addict analogy is rather ironic given that you seem to be just as driven to return to the past as Blizzard is to keep the game moving forward.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯