Gotta ask the obvious question: what happens if you just suck at this game lol just how frequently might one need to shell out 30 bucks for the right to keep playing?
If you're that bad at pvp or you have a lousy connection or just don't like pvp, then try to avoid it. You don't need to be out there waving a sword around to make progress in this game. You can be pretty much whatever you want. Make your name as a blacksmith or a baker or an entertainer, or anything else. There's more to role playing games (note the RPG bit) than running around killing things.
lunawisp was my peacebringer in City of Heroes. She lives on, in memory, as my gaming id
Gotta ask the obvious question: what happens if you just suck at this game lol just how frequently might one need to shell out 30 bucks for the right to keep playing?
If you're that bad at pvp or you have a lousy connection or just don't like pvp, then try to avoid it. You don't need to be out there waving a sword around to make progress in this game. You can be pretty much whatever you want. Make your name as a blacksmith or a baker or an entertainer, or anything else. There's more to role playing games (note the RPG bit) than running around killing things.
That is where you are messing up. It will be smart to make a pve server because the audience for such is much larger then the open world pvp audience. Imagine if Archeage, BDO had a few pve servers. It would be a smart business move for them. IDK why I feel like helping this subject maybe because it has been my passion for 20 years. PVE/PVP players can coexist so long as you place proper rules on the system. I have seen many different things that work. One system let the player choose at creation if he wants pvp or pve. Then that player will be permanently flagged as such and can possibly buy a token to switch later in the game. You would have to place a cooldown on the switch to keep people from exploiting. They could also place level restrictions on who can attack who. Anyone outside of 7 levels cannot attack you. I have also thought of a cooldown timer after you get pk'd. Making it so you cannot be attacked again by another player for 3 hours. This timer would only be available to players who choose to have it and it would prevent them from attacking another player.
What you are proposing could work so long as certain things are placed in the right order. There is never just 1 blanket thing that stops griefing.
It will be smart to make a pve server because the audience for such is much larger then the open world pvp audience. Imagine if Archeage, BDO had a few pve servers. It would be a smart business move for them.
A sandbox game such as CoE doesn't make much sense without pvp. Allowing conflict between players is a gameplay necessity.
It will be smart to make a pve server because the audience for such is much larger then the open world pvp audience. Imagine if Archeage, BDO had a few pve servers. It would be a smart business move for them.
A sandbox game such as CoE doesn't make much sense without pvp. Allowing conflict between players is a gameplay necessity.
If what you are saying is true then the pve server would be fail. Yet I don't think anyone would say the pve servers would be empty. The only thing that would fail at that point would be the pvp servers. Lets face it forcing people to put up with the same crappy pvp rules that has been around since UO does not work. They need to be creative or just stop offering garbage pvp to mmo's.
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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I know I'll be avoiding this game as a PvE player, but I am fine with keeping it to the psychotic PvP ganker crowd. I always hope they can find a game they can just kill each other in and leave PvE people alone in the games with strong PvE, meaning not asking for PvP type gameplay in those games.
Will this happen? The cynic in me says as soon as it launches it will not be PvP enough , problem with management, or some such and looking for the "real" PvP game will be heard again.
I can understand why companies want to stop griefing. But this looks like they are stopping pvp.
This won't stop PvP at all. In old school Ultima Online you took a pretty hefty stat penalty for becoming a murderer, aka "going red". This stopped absolutely no one from doing it.
I agree. Additionally, for some griefing "is" the game. So they might not have any issues paying so that they can do what they enjoy.
Also, if one has a decent amount of money the "financial repercussions" become a non-issue.
Most griefers are not going to continually pay $30 over and over. Hell it barely happens in BDO and the consequences are much less.
Either you go for the open world pvp crowd or you go for the pve crowd you cant do both , unless you just change the game to a realm vs realm game.
Seemed to work brilliantly in Lineage 2 (pre GoD - can't speak for it post-GoD because it effectively became a different game and I don't play it anymore).
PvE and PvP was intermingled... Some PvE content rewarded valuable items, which invited conflict between players. Castle Sieges are a PvP-centric mechanic that rewarded decidedly PvE type rewards and content.
Further, L2's 'Chaotic' system was pretty unforgiving to the griefers/gankers. Go red, and get 5+ karma, you can drop items on death. You're attacked on sight by guards in/around any city (some players got good at avoiding this, but it was rare), and merchants wouldn't sell to you. Of course, you're open season to any other player to get a free kill on.
Further still, the player base in L2 was (for the most part) mature enough to intuitively understand the difference between "PvP" and "Griefing", without having it explained to them. They understood how griefers did not play by the spirit of the game, drove away new players who were not keen paying a sub to be someone else's cheap entertainment when they'd barely made it past their starting area, and that without new people coming in, the game would become top-heavy. In short, many L2 players took it into their own hands, and went after the griefers (whom would, predictably, whine about it, run away, or log out every time - 'cause that's how hardcore they are). They would help give new players a proper, and far more positive introduction to the game, show them how things work, etc.
I was one of those people myself. The thoughtfulness and generosity of a single person (Sovrath, on these very forums, in fact - yes, I'm calling you out, Sov ) changed what would likely have been a frustrating, and short-lived experience in L2, and turned it into a nearly 5 year adventure, with classic L2 becoming one of my all-time favorite MMOs - something I remain appreciative of, even 10+ years later. I paid that kindness forward by helping other new players similarly.
L2 is also the only MMO I've played where I've seen a sense of "Team Pride" so strongly present. You didn't mess with another clan's members. You just didn't. And if you did, you should fully expect to have a bunch of their clan-mates come pay you a visit and/or a bulls-eye on your back everywhere you went in the future. Clan members defended their own in L2.
That latter point is something I've not seen in any other PvP MMO I've played. Either because the devs never allow it to happen, by micromanaging every single aspect of the system so players never have any "say" in the matter, or because the player base is too immature to make such realizations themselves... they're too busy "proving how hardcore they are" by chasing around brand-new players 20+ levels lower than them, and calling that "real PvP".
Lineage 2 is the one and only MMO I've played with open-world PvP that balanced it well. Point is, though, that it can be done.
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
The problem is noone really wants that style of murder fest ffa pvp. Even though I love open world pvp. Without rules its just a mess and not even worth doing. Look at all the pvp servers have done exactly what you describe and look how fast they die. Its bad design when you must suffer through pvp untill you get max level and adequate gear.
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
I agree.
However, CoE can't then call itself an ode to UO, like it has been for the past year. I have yet to figure out why they keep calling this game Open world PvP when they are doing their darnedest to make sure the PvP is not open.
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
I agree.
However, CoE can't then call itself an ode to UO, like it has been for the past year. I have yet to figure out why they keep calling this game Open world PvP when they are doing their darnedest to make sure the PvP is not open.
Of course it's open. Open world pvp doesn't mean that there are no rules that govern the pvp. It just means that one can pvp anywhere in the world.
If you want to kill an "innocent" then have the guts to do so and be an outlaw. Keep in mind, I'm all for the outlaw mechanic and even having a town that is outlaw friendly.
My ideal would be something closer to archeage but more drastic. One can kill anyone they want and become red but if enough people "witness" the killing then an npc bounty is placed on their heads and if they are caught by the npc bounty hunters they are taken away for quite some time.
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The heavy emphasis on PvP is a bit scary. Picking up a sword means you will be in PvP which sounds cool in a way, but in reality means that at some point you will lose focus because of something going on around you and your guy will go down in 1.8 seconds while you hit a few keypresses in desperation. It's too bad that in order to explore the CoE world you will have to be a PvP guy or a baker or some shit.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
However, CoE can't then call itself an ode to UO, like it has been for the past year. I have yet to figure out why they keep calling this game Open world PvP when they are doing their darnedest to make sure the PvP is not open.
Of course it's open. Open world pvp doesn't mean that there are no rules that govern the pvp. It just means that one can pvp anywhere in the world.
If you want to kill an "innocent" then have the guts to do so and be an outlaw. Keep in mind, I'm all for the outlaw mechanic and even having a town that is outlaw friendly.
My ideal would be something closer to archeage but more drastic. One can kill anyone they want and become red but if enough people "witness" the killing then an npc bounty is placed on their heads and if they are caught by the npc bounty hunters they are taken away for quite some time.
You just have to listen to Walsh talk about it for a bit. You then realize what he is thinking is players dueling each other outside Stormwind/Orgrimmar but keeps calling it 'open world pvp'.
Yes I know that is the absolute limit of certain moons being in alignments with specific stars. Yes your life gets shortened
and just to clarify what that means for Sirmatthias: You need to be extremely high fame (king status). Be Coup De Grace every time. Right at the 2 hour timer when your grace period for spirit loss wears off. As Timber said though this is the absolute min and really you'd almost have to be doing this on purpose.
The only ways you are realistically going to get to that fame level where this is possible are either by buying a kickstarter package that high and that's ones of those really high ones or by working your way up there. As with most people the second route is more viable and by then you really should know what you are doing to avoid dying a lot by the time you reach that point.
Realistically if you aren't the target of some kind of squad, you should last at the very very least 6 to 8 months of time and that's if you are bad at the game.
As for the game mechanics stopping griefs, i have one thing to say to that...yeah right. If a griefer wants to grief they will find a way. There are mechanics that will help to slow it down, but it won't stop it all together. That I can be sure of.
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I can't say that this isn't an interesting discussion, given that I've been on both sides of it on any number of forums. But as I've posted in other places, context is the key. In certain contexts, the PvP seems tacked on merely to please a vocal minority and I've opposed it, given the consequences that have already been mentioned previously in this thread. In others, it's woven into the story well enough that it just follows that it would be there, as in the current situation with CoE. Why wouldn't I then support it?
As a gamer and roleplayer, I know that the challenge and appeal of any gaming environment is the fidelity of the context to a believable system. If I'm to suspend disbelief and allow the game a life of its own, then the world has to be at least believable. In service to that, in certain contexts, given the story, it does make sense that one can't simply stab a person in the back because of boredom. In others, again given the context, the inability to resort to lethal force creates tension on the disbelief that the world's believability relies on. To demand that EVERY situation model the former is to totally disregard the story and to dimnish the necessity that the world be believable and as a roleplayer I can't get behind such notions.
If we were being frank in our contrary argument to the game, we'd have to acknowledge that griefing can take place in a purely PvE environment. Yes, I know that some will maintain that it's not possible in purely PvE games because you cannot die, but beyond the annoyance factor, what does death mean in worlds where it isn't permanent? You pick yourself up, perhaps lodge a complaint, and carry on? Grief is grief, and whether one can put another player down for a few seconds in the process or not, if a person is an anti-social psychopath then he will find a griefing outlet in any context. Thus in games where PvP is allowed the penalties are such that, even if such behavior is not prevented (and if any of you know how to prevent griefing in all contexts, please publish your work, you'd likely make a fortune...), and least the course of events in terms of actions and penalties remains believable so that suspension of disbelief is maintained. To ask more than this is to hand the griefer a pyrrhic victory. You fulfill your own prophecy that griefing uber alles is the only possibility and hand them the keys to the kingdom.
I'm sorry, but I'm guess I'm not roleplayer enough to swallow that context...
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
Isn't that just sanitizing pvp? If you have a game that simulates conflict there are consequences for intrusively affecting and harming others. Every society has this. We simulate this in our pnp games. EVE loosely simulates this. Why then if it's going to be a ffa gankfest would there not be consequences for going on a murder spree?
A real sandbox is about consequences as much as freedom. Most sandboxes do great with the freedom and fail horribly with the consequences. The answer "suck it up" is embarrassingly juvenile.
I would like to caution the developers. The problem that could easily occur is one sided pvp. Meaning there will be no risk takers and that is really what fun pvp is all about. Taking risks and seeing if you can bring down that small group solo. Or seeing if your smaller group can take on that bigger group. I have seen where pvp has harsh consequences so players never engage in a fight they aren't 100% sure they will win. They will group up in a zerg and run from any kind of threat. We need rules to prevent them from griefing pve players and at the same time freedom to kill each other.
I find it odd when developers offer FFA PVP in their game design, and then go overboard coming up with rules and designs to severely limit people doing it.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
The problem is noone really wants that style of murder fest ffa pvp. Even though I love open world pvp. Without rules its just a mess and not even worth doing. Look at all the pvp servers have done exactly what you describe and look how fast they die. Its bad design when you must suffer through pvp untill you get max level and adequate gear.
Fine, then make it a flag for PVP server.
EVE has rules and controls to prevent total anarchy, but that said you can be killed anywhere outside of a station, and they are working to remove even that restriction with the introduction of Citadels.
Point is, if you are going to have open world PVP then let people do it, with only enough restrictions to prevent total chaos.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Kyleran said:
Fine, then make it a flag for PVP server.
EVE has rules and controls to prevent total anarchy, but that said you can be killed anywhere outside of a station, and they are working to remove even that restriction with the introduction of Citadels.
Point is, if you are going to have open world PVP then let people do it, with only enough restrictions to prevent total chaos.
Otherwise just leave it out all together.
The thing about EVE is that it benefits from horizontal design and far more complex combat and game mechanics than any other MMO.
Unfortunately those are very difficult to translate into regular fantasy theme.
Yet another odd mechanic in a game full of them. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
One scenario is 60 members of a griefing clan could target a player and significantly shorten their lifespan, perhaps driving them from the game repeatedly.
Yep, Seems to me that this will be very common in this game. Most the people playing just to grief are well funded. The whole idea of it being kids/teens with no money doing the majority of hardcore griefing is non-sense. You have people spending thousands of dollars in Pay 2 win games and the majority are adults.
But having the danger of getting killed in a mmorpg by other player's is what makes the game fun, if all you want to do is pve you might as well play a mmo or a single player co-op game IMO.
The only area I haven't seen addressed fully is the spirit walk when you are not currently playing your character, I would like to assume since you are not in control at the time, the consequences for you dying while not actually playing are lesser.
The second comes from my realization that this system of "coup de grace" is directly ripped from EVE online. Any veterans from EVE will tell you there is a difference between losing a ship and being "podded". When your ship blows up, you are reduced to a defenseless pod which you can then fly back to a station to (wake up after being knocked out) and get back into a ship with the same skills, re-equip and get back into the battle.
If someone pod's you however (coup de grace) your character dies, a new clone is activated costing you money and potentially losing skill points and any implants you had are destroyed. Also, the person killing you takes a massive security loss (becomes Pirate) if doing so unlawfully.
My issue which comes from this stems from experience within EVE. Sure, an individual whale will not be able to grief non-stop. However, no company can prevent someone from issuing out a real-life bounty on your head. For anyone who doesn't know the Guiding Hand Social Club, give it a Google search and see what can happen.
In short, if someone with a lot of money takes a personal distaste for you, they could potentially offer up PayPal transactions to replace the spirits of anyone willing to go out and murder a target for them. If won't affect them at all and anyone willing to go through with it will have their game time reimbursed and the victim could be griefed multiple times outside of game mechanics since this individual could just pay them to get back any consequences they receive for accomplishing their desired outcome.
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The only area I haven't seen addressed fully is the spirit walk when you are not currently playing your character, I would like to assume since you are not in control at the time, the consequences for you dying while not actually playing are lesser.
The second comes from my realization that this system of "coup de grace" is directly ripped from EVE online. Any veterans from EVE will tell you there is a difference between losing a ship and being "podded". When your ship blows up, you are reduced to a defenseless pod which you can then fly back to a station to (wake up after being knocked out) and get back into a ship with the same skills, re-equip and get back into the battle.
If someone pod's you however (coup de grace) your character dies, a new clone is activated costing you money and potentially losing skill points and any implants you had are destroyed. Also, the person killing you takes a massive security loss (becomes Pirate) if doing so unlawfully.
My issue which comes from this stems from experience within EVE. Sure, an individual whale will not be able to grief non-stop. However, no company can prevent someone from issuing out a real-life bounty on your head. For anyone who doesn't know the Guiding Hand Social Club, give it a Google search and see what can happen.
In short, if someone with a lot of money takes a personal distaste for you, they could potentially offer up PayPal transactions to replace the spirits of anyone willing to go out and murder a target for them. If won't affect them at all and anyone willing to go through with it will have their game time reimbursed and the victim could be griefed multiple times outside of game mechanics since this individual could just pay them to get back any consequences they receive for accomplishing their desired outcome.
First 3 paragraphs, Yeah this is basically taking that system and putting into this game...that's fine. The last 2. Not sure what they can do about it. That's more on the person, any game could have this issue. That's the person that is willing to do that. A PvE game could suffer that problem. They can't grief you in game because there's no PvP, so they hire someone outside the game to grief you in real life. In fact that isn't confined to just games, that could happen with anything.
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Comments
What you are proposing could work so long as certain things are placed in the right order. There is never just 1 blanket thing that stops griefing.
Just create a PVE only server and be done with it. Then the PVP server can be more of a murderfest for those who prefer that style.
"Real PVPers" don't need "sheep" to prey on, only gankers do.
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Will this happen? The cynic in me says as soon as it launches it will not be PvP enough , problem with management, or some such and looking for the "real" PvP game will be heard again.
PvE and PvP was intermingled... Some PvE content rewarded valuable items, which invited conflict between players. Castle Sieges are a PvP-centric mechanic that rewarded decidedly PvE type rewards and content.
Further, L2's 'Chaotic' system was pretty unforgiving to the griefers/gankers. Go red, and get 5+ karma, you can drop items on death. You're attacked on sight by guards in/around any city (some players got good at avoiding this, but it was rare), and merchants wouldn't sell to you. Of course, you're open season to any other player to get a free kill on.
Further still, the player base in L2 was (for the most part) mature enough to intuitively understand the difference between "PvP" and "Griefing", without having it explained to them. They understood how griefers did not play by the spirit of the game, drove away new players who were not keen paying a sub to be someone else's cheap entertainment when they'd barely made it past their starting area, and that without new people coming in, the game would become top-heavy. In short, many L2 players took it into their own hands, and went after the griefers (whom would, predictably, whine about it, run away, or log out every time - 'cause that's how hardcore they are). They would help give new players a proper, and far more positive introduction to the game, show them how things work, etc.
I was one of those people myself. The thoughtfulness and generosity of a single person (Sovrath, on these very forums, in fact - yes, I'm calling you out, Sov
L2 is also the only MMO I've played where I've seen a sense of "Team Pride" so strongly present. You didn't mess with another clan's members. You just didn't. And if you did, you should fully expect to have a bunch of their clan-mates come pay you a visit and/or a bulls-eye on your back everywhere you went in the future. Clan members defended their own in L2.
That latter point is something I've not seen in any other PvP MMO I've played. Either because the devs never allow it to happen, by micromanaging every single aspect of the system so players never have any "say" in the matter, or because the player base is too immature to make such realizations themselves... they're too busy "proving how hardcore they are" by chasing around brand-new players 20+ levels lower than them, and calling that "real PvP".
Lineage 2 is the one and only MMO I've played with open-world PvP that balanced it well. Point is, though, that it can be done.
However, CoE can't then call itself an ode to UO, like it has been for the past year. I have yet to figure out why they keep calling this game Open world PvP when they are doing their darnedest to make sure the PvP is not open.
If you want to kill an "innocent" then have the guts to do so and be an outlaw. Keep in mind, I'm all for the outlaw mechanic and even having a town that is outlaw friendly.
My ideal would be something closer to archeage but more drastic. One can kill anyone they want and become red but if enough people "witness" the killing then an npc bounty is placed on their heads and if they are caught by the npc bounty hunters they are taken away for quite some time.
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why I will avoid this game.
It is to my understanding you need to buy a spark of life to continue playing after 10-14 months
a) this gets shortend due to death and consequences you choose
b) whats the craziest turnaround to perma death?
seems to me I've died too so many walk away from moniter moments that I would die a lot .
some people also want to watch the world burn.
does my life get shortended due to a murder killing me?
Yes I know that is the absolute limit of certain moons being in alignments with specific stars.
Yes your life gets shortened
The only ways you are realistically going to get to that fame level where this is possible are either by buying a kickstarter package that high and that's ones of those really high ones or by working your way up there. As with most people the second route is more viable and by then you really should know what you are doing to avoid dying a lot by the time you reach that point.
Realistically if you aren't the target of some kind of squad, you should last at the very very least 6 to 8 months of time and that's if you are bad at the game.
As for the game mechanics stopping griefs, i have one thing to say to that...yeah right. If a griefer wants to grief they will find a way. There are mechanics that will help to slow it down, but it won't stop it all together. That I can be sure of.
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As a gamer and roleplayer, I know that the challenge and appeal of any gaming environment is the fidelity of the context to a believable system. If I'm to suspend disbelief and allow the game a life of its own, then the world has to be at least believable. In service to that, in certain contexts, given the story, it does make sense that one can't simply stab a person in the back because of boredom. In others, again given the context, the inability to resort to lethal force creates tension on the disbelief that the world's believability relies on. To demand that EVERY situation model the former is to totally disregard the story and to dimnish the necessity that the world be believable and as a roleplayer I can't get behind such notions.
If we were being frank in our contrary argument to the game, we'd have to acknowledge that griefing can take place in a purely PvE environment. Yes, I know that some will maintain that it's not possible in purely PvE games because you cannot die, but beyond the annoyance factor, what does death mean in worlds where it isn't permanent? You pick yourself up, perhaps lodge a complaint, and carry on? Grief is grief, and whether one can put another player down for a few seconds in the process or not, if a person is an anti-social psychopath then he will find a griefing outlet in any context. Thus in games where PvP is allowed the penalties are such that, even if such behavior is not prevented (and if any of you know how to prevent griefing in all contexts, please publish your work, you'd likely make a fortune...), and least the course of events in terms of actions and penalties remains believable so that suspension of disbelief is maintained. To ask more than this is to hand the griefer a pyrrhic victory. You fulfill your own prophecy that griefing uber alles is the only possibility and hand them the keys to the kingdom.
I'm sorry, but I'm guess I'm not roleplayer enough to swallow that context...
J
It is rather simple.
If you roam solo, your targets are limited.
If you roam in a group, your potential targets broaden up.
More ppl you have in group, more PVP for you.
EVE has rules and controls to prevent total anarchy, but that said you can be killed anywhere outside of a station, and they are working to remove even that restriction with the introduction of Citadels.
Point is, if you are going to have open world PVP then let people do it, with only enough restrictions to prevent total chaos.
Otherwise just leave it out all together.
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Unfortunately those are very difficult to translate into regular fantasy theme.
But having the danger of getting killed in a mmorpg by other player's is what makes the game fun, if all you want to do is pve you might as well play a mmo or a single player co-op game IMO.
The second comes from my realization that this system of "coup de grace" is directly ripped from EVE online. Any veterans from EVE will tell you there is a difference between losing a ship and being "podded". When your ship blows up, you are reduced to a defenseless pod which you can then fly back to a station to (wake up after being knocked out) and get back into a ship with the same skills, re-equip and get back into the battle.
If someone pod's you however (coup de grace) your character dies, a new clone is activated costing you money and potentially losing skill points and any implants you had are destroyed. Also, the person killing you takes a massive security loss (becomes Pirate) if doing so unlawfully.
My issue which comes from this stems from experience within EVE. Sure, an individual whale will not be able to grief non-stop. However, no company can prevent someone from issuing out a real-life bounty on your head. For anyone who doesn't know the Guiding Hand Social Club, give it a Google search and see what can happen.
In short, if someone with a lot of money takes a personal distaste for you, they could potentially offer up PayPal transactions to replace the spirits of anyone willing to go out and murder a target for them. If won't affect them at all and anyone willing to go through with it will have their game time reimbursed and the victim could be griefed multiple times outside of game mechanics since this individual could just pay them to get back any consequences they receive for accomplishing their desired outcome.
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