Expansions should come with game time. One reason I didn't play WoW was I am not to sold on buy the expansion plus monthly fee to get back in. I barely play but I like to see the new content just for research.
Nothing, im happy with GW2 and ESO business model.
With that said, the more mmo companies want to charge for mmos the more i embrace the classic offline format.
That does not mean i would not pay a subscription if its worth the investment, but it is nothing more than the standard price.
If mmos are so expensive that they need to charge more money to cover all costs, keep servers alive and updated while not having cash shop, then all they have to do is charge more money for the box or expansions only. Increasing the price for the subscription beyond the standard $15 is just a massive cash grab in the long term IMO and we as consumers dont win in that situation.
As other say it depends on the quality of the game but it also depends on what else you need to buy to play it.
I think that the perfect model would be 2 free weeks, no boxes you need to buy, no cashshop, 1 free servertransfer (assuming you don't use megaserver tech) and 20-25 bucks a month. 2 weeks is enough to judge if the game is worth playing and it also forces the devs to make the game fun or people wont pay.
Limited trials never works, people do remember AoCs Tortage trial at launch, the rest of the game was a buggy mess while all work had been done to make the start island relatively well running and almost totally voice acted.
Also, charging for the box and additional expansions will turn off many players. It is better to have a higher fee that will earn the company more if the game is fun enough to keep the players for a while.
And I do understand why most companies wouldn't like this idea since it only would earn them a lot money if they can keep the players, short time it is better to trick people paying for the box for a cheap crappy game or to force them to buy loads of stuff in the cashshop early before they get that the game isn't very good.
Mark Jacobs talked about this the other day on the comment section of a random article on MassilvelyOP. He thinks sooner or later some company will try to do that: charge a higher subscription price, no cash shop, everything in game like in the good old days. The subscription price has been the same for more than a decade, it even makes sense to rise it, but not if the company tries to double or triple dip and nickels and dimes you.
More than a decade is accurate. The price had increased over the years though, in some cases decreased. EverQuest started at 9.89 (Gee I wonder why...) Final Fantasy XI started at 12.99 for one character slot, and 1.99 per slot after. Just to name a couple... Inflation however hasn't changed much since 2003.
Not sure how off topic, but a side note. Sure there are games such as ESO that are not charging a monthly fee for the core game, only box price, but they are still on a subscription plan or the expansions (Rapidly released in the case of Elder Scrolls) cost roughly the same as the box copy, so far they have been every 90ish days. Or 10$ a month, or sub-fee of 15 a month which includes immediate store credit that can be used to purchase content. To compare this to World of Warcraft, yearly to biyearly expansions, but content updates included with that subscription (new raids within level tier, new dungeons, new features all around) In the end you would be paying the same for both, Elder Scrolls leaning more towards pay as you go updates, vs the subscription model provided updates.
The only game I can think of with subscription based expansion and updates is EvE, 15 flat, or 20 per plex.
In the end it's all consumer choice, if someone likes the game, they'll pay to play it, whether microtransation or subscription.
As other say it depends on the quality of the game but it also depends on what else you need to buy to play it.
I think that the perfect model would be 2 free weeks, no boxes you need to buy, no cashshop, 1 free servertransfer (assuming you don't use megaserver tech) and 20-25 bucks a month. 2 weeks is enough to judge if the game is worth playing and it also forces the devs to make the game fun or people wont pay.
Limited trials never works, people do remember AoCs Tortage trial at launch, the rest of the game was a buggy mess while all work had been done to make the start island relatively well running and almost totally voice acted.
Also, charging for the box and additional expansions will turn off many players. It is better to have a higher fee that will earn the company more if the game is fun enough to keep the players for a while.
And I do understand why most companies wouldn't like this idea since it only would earn them a lot money if they can keep the players, short time it is better to trick people paying for the box for a cheap crappy game or to force them to buy loads of stuff in the cashshop early before they get that the game isn't very good.
Mark Jacobs talked about this the other day on the comment section of a random article on MassilvelyOP. He thinks sooner or later some company will try to do that: charge a higher subscription price, no cash shop, everything in game like in the good old days. The subscription price has been the same for more than a decade, it even makes sense to rise it, but not if the company tries to double or triple dip and nickels and dimes you.
More than a decade is accurate. The price had increased over the years though, in some cases decreased. EverQuest started at 9.89 (Gee I wonder why...) Final Fantasy XI started at 12.99 for one character slot, and 1.99 per slot after. Just to name a couple... Inflation however hasn't changed much since 2003.
Not sure how off topic, but a side note. Sure there are games such as ESO that are not charging a monthly fee for the core game, only box price, but they are still on a subscription plan or the expansions (Rapidly released in the case of Elder Scrolls) cost roughly the same as the box copy, so far they have been every 90ish days. Or 10$ a month, or sub-fee of 15 a month which includes immediate store credit that can be used to purchase content. To compare this to World of Warcraft, yearly to biyearly expansions, but content updates included with that subscription (new raids within level tier, new dungeons, new features all around) In the end you would be paying the same for both, Elder Scrolls leaning more towards pay as you go updates, vs the subscription model provided updates.
The only game I can think of with subscription based expansion and updates is EvE, 15 flat, or 20 per plex.
In the end it's all consumer choice, if someone likes the game, they'll pay to play it, whether microtransation or subscription.
We use to pay $6.00 per hour for nwn. Subs are cheap entertainment.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
GW2 already proved that the sub.model is BS. But most mmo players just don't get it. So i voted the lowest cost.
GW2 have the box (HoT) price and a cashshop, not a bad one but it is still a cashshop. Having a monthly fee and alll included is certainly still an alternative.
Now, selling boxes, having a monthly fee, selling mounts & similar and take fees for servertransfers, that is a bad deal.
But only the monthly fee is actually still better then most games that have an "optional" monthly fee that you more or less must pay to get somewhere together with a cashshop full of advantages.
The perfect model was the one GW used to have (they changed it a while after Nightfall released) with only boxprice + new campaigns, nothing more. Later they added some skins as well, not many though. But it was a low budget game even if it was fun and I don't think a modern MMO wiith that model would survive long.
I play GW2 but I would play a monthly fee game as well provided it truly is all inclusive, I would pay up to $25 a month for it as well depending on how good it is (anything at average and below is worth zero for me, don't have enough time to play boring stuff).
$15 is a old cost and does not give back the return unless is a old build game. Even $15 a month is getting hard to pay off for some how the market it is now, is why so many playing free to play game with out spending more of there dime.
A game with no source of income other than a subscription? That's never going to recapture the development costs in a timely manner, especially with the choices given. Realistically, I would expect investors to want complete return on investment within 1 year of launch and profitability beyond that. I think the amount of a subscription would need to be at least $50 / month (and likely more) month to meet those requirements. (Subscription typically covers ongoing costs of operation -- network, hardware, personnel costs, marketing, etc. Subscription rates do not factor in the cost of development, at least not anymore.)
Horrible poll, unless the OP just wants all development teams and investor groups to view MMORPGs as a sure-fire route to bankruptcy.
The genie is out of the bottle, developers know literally dozens of ways to monetize their games from concept to closing, and they will employ several of them at least to maximize revenues.
We may one day be offered a $25 a month sub fee tied perhaps to better customer service, but there still will be additional ways for people who want to spend more money than a sub to do so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
There is no fair price for a subscription. Since you got people, a lot of people actually, putting over 50$ a month on tuning up their toons. If the MMO is great, any sub fee will do. Of course you'll always have the 0.1% of people that are butt hurt, but some companies are finally coming to their senses and are ditching the poor fools that wants everything for free but fail to realize that to keep a game up and running for a few decades, requires money coming in. Basically you should all thank those who put money on cash shops, because without them, 90% of the games that have released since 2004 would all be dead and we'd all be playing WoW / EVE.
The price your target audience will accept as a fair price, is your fair price. (what other segments see as fair is irrelevant for your product) The actual value will ofcourse totally depend on which market segment you are targeting.
Some segments have a much higher acceptance rate for subs (and maybe even premium subs if you provide a good focussed product that targets their otherwise underserved segment) than others. If you can't find a pricepoint and payment model that keeps you afloat and your players accept as fair, you messed up pretty badly somewhere in the dev process.
We use to pay $6.00 per hour for nwn. Subs are cheap entertainment.
Wow, never had a modem for my Amiga at the time. I guess you win the price for playing MMOs longest then, my M59 isn't even close.
Lots of people payed for AOL (NWN) and Sierra online (The Shadow of Yserbius game) on a per hour basis. Eventually subscription service model came about. Some people were paying a lot of money every month to AOL.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Which MMO's have a monthly fee without a cash shop and don't charge for expansions, that are popular? I think this is a myth.
The only time I pay for a sub now is if it's a new game and the 30 sub is included in the package. So far I've not found a new game worth paying a sub for when compare to those that don't make them mandatory.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The idea of renting my game and then having that investment in time and money go away when I stop shoveling them money just doesn't appeal to me at all.
So you prefer permanent shiny pixels to having fun while playing the game? I am guessing you also feel your experiences are worthless if you don't share a picture of them on facebook.
you don't have to have one or the other. I've never had as much fun in a sub based MMO as I've had in Buy to Play and Free to Play MMOs. I like only having to buy the content I want, not having to pay to access a bunch of content I don't care about.
No subscription fee its a lie that they need money to run the games,the people that make the dark souls games from soft ask no subscription fee and have servers running for years! the mmo`s make 100 times more money but they want to still be paid every month by fooled players,wake up people!
Assuming an MMORPG had no cash shop or box price, what do you think would be a fair price for a monthly subscription? This is, of course, assuming said MMORPG were a 'good game'.
It really depends on the game. If its a fully fleshed out game with a huge world to explore and lots of things to do, then its worth the standard $15, maybe even more since there is no box price. I happily sub to FFXIV, and I'd be willing to pay more if I had to. but there are some games out there that aren't worth the consideration, let alone money.
TOTALLY depends on the game does it not? Rather stupid question I voted 10, but ofcourse, if the game is brutally awesome and the gameservers needs to be super-maxed 25 is not that much either.. for an adult, that is
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Comments
With that said, the more mmo companies want to charge for mmos the more i embrace the classic offline format.
That does not mean i would not pay a subscription if its worth the investment, but it is nothing more than the standard price.
If mmos are so expensive that they need to charge more money to cover all costs, keep servers alive and updated while not having cash shop, then all they have to do is charge more money for the box or expansions only. Increasing the price for the subscription beyond the standard $15 is just a massive cash grab in the long term IMO and we as consumers dont win in that situation.
EverQuest started at 9.89 (Gee I wonder why...) Final Fantasy XI started at 12.99 for one character slot, and 1.99 per slot after. Just to name a couple... Inflation however hasn't changed much since 2003.
Not sure how off topic, but a side note. Sure there are games such as ESO that are not charging a monthly fee for the core game, only box price, but they are still on a subscription plan or the expansions (Rapidly released in the case of Elder Scrolls) cost roughly the same as the box copy, so far they have been every 90ish days. Or 10$ a month, or sub-fee of 15 a month which includes immediate store credit that can be used to purchase content. To compare this to World of Warcraft, yearly to biyearly expansions, but content updates included with that subscription (new raids within level tier, new dungeons, new features all around) In the end you would be paying the same for both, Elder Scrolls leaning more towards pay as you go updates, vs the subscription model provided updates.
The only game I can think of with subscription based expansion and updates is EvE, 15 flat, or 20 per plex.
In the end it's all consumer choice, if someone likes the game, they'll pay to play it, whether microtransation or subscription.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Now, selling boxes, having a monthly fee, selling mounts & similar and take fees for servertransfers, that is a bad deal.
But only the monthly fee is actually still better then most games that have an "optional" monthly fee that you more or less must pay to get somewhere together with a cashshop full of advantages.
The perfect model was the one GW used to have (they changed it a while after Nightfall released) with only boxprice + new campaigns, nothing more. Later they added some skins as well, not many though. But it was a low budget game even if it was fun and I don't think a modern MMO wiith that model would survive long.
I play GW2 but I would play a monthly fee game as well provided it truly is all inclusive, I would pay up to $25 a month for it as well depending on how good it is (anything at average and below is worth zero for me, don't have enough time to play boring stuff).
It's more of a sign cash shop works.
We may one day be offered a $25 a month sub fee tied perhaps to better customer service, but there still will be additional ways for people who want to spend more money than a sub to do so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The actual value will ofcourse totally depend on which market segment you are targeting.
Some segments have a much higher acceptance rate for subs (and maybe even premium subs if you provide a good focussed product that targets their otherwise underserved segment) than others.
If you can't find a pricepoint and payment model that keeps you afloat and your players accept as fair, you messed up pretty badly somewhere in the dev process.
Lots of people payed for AOL (NWN) and Sierra online (The Shadow of Yserbius game) on a per hour basis. Eventually subscription service model came about. Some people were paying a lot of money every month to AOL.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The only time I pay for a sub now is if it's a new game and the 30 sub is included in the package. So far I've not found a new game worth paying a sub for when compare to those that don't make them mandatory.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I play MMOs for the Forum PVP
the mmo`s make 100 times more money but they want to still be paid every month by fooled players,wake up people!
but there are some games out there that aren't worth the consideration, let alone money.
"Fair" has no meaning here without any given context.
Follow us: www.facebook.com/Argardh Youtube-channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCNmxHWGpO790r-4wn4AEeSA
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA