Streamers are notorious for game hopping, I fail to see the relevance for the longevity of the game. They are no better than the content locusts that hop from game to game, complaining that there isn't anything to do, when they spend 100+ hours a week playing the MMO they are bashing the second it releases.
Hardcore grinder burned himself out in a couple of weeks... This is new how exactly?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Here the thing people complain they have nothing to do then complain have to much to do. It is hard balance is something I stop doing after seeing doing same thing over and over again with WoW years ago even now, it's just for little amount of fun. I do play BDO but I don't play it just to be the top player or care much for the pvp to much of a grind I want to enjoy a game not bleeding my eyes out to keep up and not have fun.
I was thinking about starting this game up with some old guildies, but this vid honestly makes me not want to play. I just don't want to sink the hours into it.
This is precisely the veteran MMORPG gamer conundrum:
Want to play old school type MMORPGs where everything was much slower paced, no fast travel, and slow leveling - but don't want a huge time investment
You can't really have it both - the HUGE time sink was a core part of old school MMORPGs - you remove that and you kill what made them great.
But - the playerbase has changed - the 100million + online gamers that play short session team based games (like online shooters, or MOBAs) are just such an overwhelming % of the overall online gamer playerbase that MMORPGs (which were niche to begin with) have become a niche within a niche.
It is no coincidence that short play session gameplay is all the rage right now - look at upcoming Overwatch, Battleborn, or recent Division, - the developers are catering to "I want to be able to jump in for 15-20min and jump out if I wish"
The % of playerbase whose gameplay session is hours and hours each night is a fraction of a fraction of a % that they've fallen off the charts - I doubt that major video game companies are even considering the old school veteran MMORPG players anymore as they are not even registering on reports anymore.
I absolutely agree with you DMKano. I'm not saying to take the grind away. I'm saying I've come to realize I personally don't have time for *competitive* grind anymore -- the video the OP linked really hit that point home for me. I've realized I'm actually not waiting for that One Great and Perfect Game to come along anymore. It's a relief, actually.
Now that I'm an old fart, I just want to play and take my time. I love ESO's content (Wrothgar, TG, and looking forward to Dark Brotherhood). I know it's not a great game in the sense of the traditional MMORPG. But it's great for older casual gamers who like pve and want to smell the roses along the way without any pressure.
I'm not saying that's good or that's the direction the genre should be heading at all. I've changed. I'm just glad this video helped me realize BDO is not for me. I don't say BDO is good or bad.
Definitely, I fit the category of short play game session that you described. I don't mind a huge time investment, but I don't want to feel rushed or like I have to be competitive. Those days are over for me. Except for the FPS games Even though I've slowed down *a little.*
I would argue its the opposite, people arnt playing the games as long because there no longer interesting or worth the time investment.
I was thinking about starting this game up with some old guildies, but this vid honestly makes me not want to play. I just don't want to sink the hours into it.
This is precisely the modern day - veteran MMORPG gamer conundrum:
Want to play old school type MMORPGs where everything was much slower paced, no fast travel, and slow leveling - but don't want a huge time investment
You can't really have it both - the HUGE time sink was a core part of old school MMORPGs - you remove that and you kill what made them great.
Have to disagree with this Kano. When I originally played EQ (among other early titles), I was not "hardcore" by the standards at the time or today. A lot of the time, I could only play the game for a few hours a day (dial up with 1 phone line, lol). Despite the fact that the best stuff took a considerable time investment, those games still felt rewarding playing casually.
The "grind" used to be a journey and it involved more meaningful decisions and social challenges rather than just spamming rotations in BDO vs ridiculously easy mobs. That bad grind, along with the poor variety of RNG involved, is just a huge step backwards in terms of MMO progression. I never felt like playing early MMOs was a "chore" as the guy in the video describes. That is just poor design.
Ultimately people have to decide what their goals are. If they are only happy doing the most competitive and prestigious content in the game, but don't have the time to do so, then yes, they will probably never be happy.
Agreed game isn't worth playing, if you are going to play this game might as well play AA, there are just better games than playing a game that is fully developed around RNG, and full of cheaters / hackers, and Pay 2 Enjoy cash shop.
Well, the guy was geared up and ready for seiges after 1 month. We still don't have them so it's understandable why he's a bit bored.
I got another trial from this website and the game actually seems pretty good right now.
I guess all things are relative, but BnS is swirling down the toilet with RNG boxes up the ass. Also, 1v1 Arena in BnS is like the best thing ever, but NcWest seems to give zero shits about promoting it or fostering the community. They couldn't even give us spectator mode (which is already in the game in Korea) for tournaments here.
The video guy lost me when he said it's the greatest mmo since WoW. Couldn't take anything else seriously after that.
What would you view as the best MMORPG since WOW?
Fair question If I am comparing "best" mmo's with WoW, then they'll be similar in nature.
Let me say that we are talking games at their height. WoW is still going of course, but I would rate it differently now than several years ago. But the OP's "since WoW" directs us to the past, not the present.
So games at their height: - when both the game and the relevant developer showed creativity and love for what they where doing. Not in any particular order, just "since WoW" .
FFXIV Rift Aion SWTOR
I'll say again, these are judged when the games where at their peak - although I'd quickly add that FFXIV is still there.
The video guy lost me when he said it's the greatest mmo since WoW. Couldn't take anything else seriously after that.
What would you view as the best MMORPG since WOW?
This is of course per person, but I would say Everquest was better then FFXI and WoW. That is ofcourse my personal opinion which many support seeing as the game still has a decent size community on it.
The rush to PvP crowd is going to and all should quit the game due to the hacking and there being no reason to PvP yet.
The laid back life skills people can play this forever. I unfortunately got stuck in a rush to max level guild and couldn't figure out what they were rushing for. There is nothing to rush to yet.
The rush to PvP crowd is going to and all should quit the game due to the hacking and there being no reason to PvP yet.
The laid back life skills people can play this forever. I unfortunately got stuck in a rush to max level guild and couldn't figure out what they were rushing for. There is nothing to rush to yet.
The rushing crowd is always the first to burn out... some even make videos about it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The rush to PvP crowd is going to and all should quit the game due to the hacking and there being no reason to PvP yet.
The laid back life skills people can play this forever. I unfortunately got stuck in a rush to max level guild and couldn't figure out what they were rushing for. There is nothing to rush to yet.
I do wonder what are they going to do about the issue that in a year players that play 100 hours a week are close to level 100 and then someone new who wants to play 100 hours a week joins the game is just lvl 60 and well its impossible to reach those lvl 100 because you would have to grind 24/7 to do that so you basically just have a guy who is going to say fuck it and leave because no matter what other people have 1 year of advantage.
I play it a couple hours a day, and still having a great time...I don't care what somebody else thinks about a game. The only opinion that matters to me is my own
I played a lot of MMORPGS post WOW and none outside of EVE (a pre-WOW title) held my interest for more than 3 months.
So while I haven't played BDO I do think its a pretty low bar it had to hurdle.
You only post about Eve and haven't played the game in question, so why make a post at all?
Because he was commenting on the statement and not making a statement about BDO perhaps, its not like his comment wasn't in any way relevant. I think perhaps BDO is one of those games where you do have to invest a lot of time into the game, something i have discovered all too well, its a huge time sink, but its a fun one, i kind of agree with Pvt Wiggles on some of his points, but i don't agree with all of them, not at all, and if he regrets spending 500 euro's in the game, well, thats his problem, its not like Daum popped by his house and demanded money from him, and if he chooses to buy 'lucky knickers' from the cash shop, well, i won't judge.
The real issue is the mindless drones that put stock in any "streamer" in that their opinion matters in the slightest...
The younger people need to get over this "got to align myself with a streamer and follow their every word" mentality... and start making choices for themselves...
I tend to play MMO's for the fun of being in their world, and to be part of a group. I typically like to craft and become the guild's crafter for something, like potions. I did enjoy PvP in DAOC, but usually don't like competitive games like shooters.
BDO's world is pretty and fun to be in, so that's a plus. Crafting is interesting, but there is no way I can become a guild's crafter for something, due to their overly restrictive player economy and ban on trading.
There's also no way I'm going to sink a lot of time to become competitive in PvP, just to lose to cheaters and hackers.
So for me, BDO is a game I can drop into every now and then to fiddle around and smell the roses.
The game does require a HUGE time investment, and I am finding that majority of players are actually AFK - heh, I mean the game seems packed, but the % of AFK loop runners is tremendous.
I've been checking it out, and I like a lot about it, so far. However, this bit here is one thing that really annoys me. I see other players, and I try to interact or talk to them... nothing. I have no idea when or how having AFK activities built into a MMO by design became a thing... but it seems to be the complete antithesis of what a multiplayer game, one which seems to offer so much in terms of community building, should be doing.
If the time commitment to achieve a given goal in your game seems so great that it makes an AFK progression system seem like a good, or even necessary thing... you should probably revisit and tone down on the time/effort requirements.
"We're going to add a ton of grind to some fundamental parts of character progression... but then we'll add bot-like afk automation to reduce the amount of hands-on effort required by players. We could just as well have toned back the grind so the afk progression wouldn't be seen as necessary in the first place... but... Nah."
Seriously, I don't get the point of that at all. Is it some kind of cynical ploy to keep people feeling "invested" in their characters even when they're not actually playing? Is this some scheme lifted from FB games, or something?
It's literally a "solution" to a "problem" they deliberately designed into the game themself, and could just as well have left on the design room floor.
Who's a fanboi here? Only thing I'm seeing are people that like it so far, but some things annoy them. Not seeing and true fanbbois here. I like it so far...not the greatest, but fun to play casually for me.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Grind and RNG!That's unheard of,especially for a Asian MMO!!!!!! Or maybe not?
To be fair,It's not just BDO. Most cash shop games are like that,and It's up to the players to not put up with shit like this. "F2P" games in most cases end up being a lot more expensive per year of play than a sub only game. Even if you buy a "premium" or "VIP" membership or however else they like to call it,you still don't get the full service you'd get from a subscription game,and you still have to spend a lot of money in their cash shops and deal with the online casino,gambling,and crazy RNG features built in these games.
To me such blatant and obvious money grabbing tactics are disrespectful to the players and customers. Unfortunately there are a lot of players that end up spending small fortunes on such games.
I was thinking about starting this game up with some old guildies, but this vid honestly makes me not want to play. I just don't want to sink the hours into it.
This is precisely the modern day - veteran MMORPG gamer conundrum:
Want to play old school type MMORPGs where everything was much slower paced, no fast travel, and slow leveling - but don't want a huge time investment
You can't really have it both - the HUGE time sink was a core part of old school MMORPGs - you remove that and you kill what made them great.
But - the playerbase has changed - the 100million + online gamers that play short session team based games (like online shooters, or MOBAs) are just such an overwhelming % of the overall online gamer playerbase that MMORPGs (which were niche to begin with) have become a niche within a niche.
It is no coincidence that short play session gameplay is all the rage right now - look at upcoming Overwatch, Battleborn, or recent Division, - the developers are catering to "I want to be able to jump in for 15-20min and jump out if I wish"
The % of playerbase whose gameplay session is hours and hours each night is a fraction of a fraction of a % that they've fallen off the charts - I doubt that major video game companies are even considering the old school veteran MMORPG players anymore as they are not even registering on reports anymore.
Well I broke down and gave it a 7 day trial and what kills it for me(I hate having to learn new controls/UI's), is how I can't change how your mouse controls the camera so I spent much of my time just trying not to attack things I just wanted to change where I was looking. Otherwise I do think I'd really enjoy the game, at least until level 45....
As for the huge time sink you refer to as being a core part of old school mmorpgs, at least in UO the timesink was all about learning the skills and strategy and was not so dependent on gear back when most players seemed to have the most fond memories. That's where I see how the new games are failing.
There's not enough game play variety for those who don't want to spend all day either pvping or pveing and for those that do, way too much gear grind. That just leads to boredom and/or burnout, especially after about the third expansion when everything you invested all that time/money in gets nerfed and you have to do it all again just to stay where you were. Games are supposed to be fun, not exercises in frustration just trying to keep up with the Jones'(the 24/7's) so you can stay relevant. MOO.
Comments
/smh
This is new how exactly?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
The "grind" used to be a journey and it involved more meaningful decisions and social challenges rather than just spamming rotations in BDO vs ridiculously easy mobs. That bad grind, along with the poor variety of RNG involved, is just a huge step backwards in terms of MMO progression. I never felt like playing early MMOs was a "chore" as the guy in the video describes. That is just poor design.
Ultimately people have to decide what their goals are. If they are only happy doing the most competitive and prestigious content in the game, but don't have the time to do so, then yes, they will probably never be happy.
I got another trial from this website and the game actually seems pretty good right now.
I guess all things are relative, but BnS is swirling down the toilet with RNG boxes up the ass. Also, 1v1 Arena in BnS is like the best thing ever, but NcWest seems to give zero shits about promoting it or fostering the community. They couldn't even give us spectator mode (which is already in the game in Korea) for tournaments here.
Seriously considering buying BDO today.
If I am comparing "best" mmo's with WoW, then they'll be similar in nature.
Let me say that we are talking games at their height. WoW is still going of course, but I would rate it differently now than several years ago.
But the OP's "since WoW" directs us to the past, not the present.
So games at their height: - when both the game and the relevant developer showed creativity and love for what they where doing. Not in any particular order, just "since WoW" .
FFXIV
Rift
Aion
SWTOR
I'll say again, these are judged when the games where at their peak - although I'd quickly add that FFXIV is still there.
The laid back life skills people can play this forever. I unfortunately got stuck in a rush to max level guild and couldn't figure out what they were rushing for. There is nothing to rush to yet.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I think perhaps BDO is one of those games where you do have to invest a lot of time into the game, something i have discovered all too well, its a huge time sink, but its a fun one, i kind of agree with Pvt Wiggles on some of his points, but i don't agree with all of them, not at all, and if he regrets spending 500 euro's in the game, well, thats his problem, its not like Daum popped by his house and demanded money from him, and if he chooses to buy 'lucky knickers' from the cash shop, well, i won't judge.
The younger people need to get over this "got to align myself with a streamer and follow their every word" mentality... and start making choices for themselves...
BDO's world is pretty and fun to be in, so that's a plus. Crafting is interesting, but there is no way I can become a guild's crafter for something, due to their overly restrictive player economy and ban on trading.
There's also no way I'm going to sink a lot of time to become competitive in PvP, just to lose to cheaters and hackers.
So for me, BDO is a game I can drop into every now and then to fiddle around and smell the roses.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
If the time commitment to achieve a given goal in your game seems so great that it makes an AFK progression system seem like a good, or even necessary thing... you should probably revisit and tone down on the time/effort requirements.
"We're going to add a ton of grind to some fundamental parts of character progression... but then we'll add bot-like afk automation to reduce the amount of hands-on effort required by players. We could just as well have toned back the grind so the afk progression wouldn't be seen as necessary in the first place... but... Nah."
Seriously, I don't get the point of that at all. Is it some kind of cynical ploy to keep people feeling "invested" in their characters even when they're not actually playing? Is this some scheme lifted from FB games, or something?
It's literally a "solution" to a "problem" they deliberately designed into the game themself, and could just as well have left on the design room floor.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The shop sounds really predatory to me. I'd never buy BDO but I'd try it as F2P
They still just can not accept it.
Or maybe not?
To be fair,It's not just BDO.
Most cash shop games are like that,and It's up to the players to not put up with shit like this.
"F2P" games in most cases end up being a lot more expensive per year of play than a sub only game.
Even if you buy a "premium" or "VIP" membership or however else they like to call it,you still don't get the full service you'd get from a subscription game,and you still have to spend a lot of money in their cash shops and deal with the online casino,gambling,and crazy RNG features built in these games.
To me such blatant and obvious money grabbing tactics are disrespectful to the players and customers.
Unfortunately there are a lot of players that end up spending small fortunes on such games.
Anyway,thanks for the heads up!
As for the huge time sink you refer to as being a core part of old school mmorpgs, at least in UO the timesink was all about learning the skills and strategy and was not so dependent on gear back when most players seemed to have the most fond memories. That's where I see how the new games are failing.
There's not enough game play variety for those who don't want to spend all day either pvping or pveing and for those that do, way too much gear grind. That just leads to boredom and/or burnout, especially after about the third expansion when everything you invested all that time/money in gets nerfed and you have to do it all again just to stay where you were. Games are supposed to be fun, not exercises in frustration just trying to keep up with the Jones'(the 24/7's) so you can stay relevant. MOO.