Being an RPG just works against the combat quality. (Like in Darkfall where I landed ~21 sword swings against my opponent in the time it took him to kill me in ~4 swings. In spite of my tremendous skill advantage over him, he had gear (RPG progression) and I didn't.)
...
I've often wondered why gear (or scaling stat progression) is often considered a definitive trait for RPG's.
To me, it's always been the ability to interact with the world and influence the way the story progresses. I.E. playing the role of your character, making decisions on behalf of your character that force certain reactions from your surroundings.
Afterall, RPG means Role Playing Game, not Role Playing & Gear. Not to say that your definition is wrong. I just question it.
I could imagine a game with plenty of freedom of interaction and opportunity to develop a character's role, alongside having a more action-oriented set of mechanics for combat, which usually is a rather competitive ordeal. I personally consider more direct control in competition a good thing.
Like you said in your own example of Darkfall. Your skill outshined that of your opponent, but he simply had a mathematical advantage over you. Why is that mathematical advantage necessary to call it an RPG?
Item and statistical gains are just a way of representing your progression. The need to get better, smarter, stronger is just human nature. Finding ways to increase your stats, whether by items or by achieving some goal, just symbolizes your advancement.
You could hypothetically have an RPG with pure story, but that would be more of an interactive novel or pure role play than a role playing game.
Mount & Blade Warband Melee combat > Chivalry melee combat.
Chivalry is more aimed for quick action than skill.
All Warband needs to improve is having a stamina bar.
It also needs more active Native servers as well. Mount and siege and GK team death match are about the only two options normally, with MOunt and siege being active only at off hours to my schedule ( early morning to mid day).. Hence being stuck playing Chivalry.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I feel too many people relate this topic to pvp and for MANY,we do not care one bit about pvp in a role playing game. In mmorpg,i want players to work together and not against each other and i want grouping.I don't login a MMO to play solo,that is a nonsense idea. I want more strategy than skill,to me strategy is also a skill and also imo a MORE important one than simply pressing r-l-r-back dbl tap dodge.To me games that use these combo moves look retarded,NOBODY is ever going to do moves like that and get some bonus attack out of it. In real life combat or challenging sport we call it "feinting" or deception moves to fool your opponent,you cannot properly replicate that in a computer game,so i don't want it in my game at least not in my mmorpg games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Just feels like there's no reason to make that type of a game an MMO or an RPG.
Non-MMOs already provide that style of combat well. Creating a server with a massive number of players wouldn't improve the experience by enough to be worth it.
Being an RPG just works against the combat quality. (Like in Darkfall where I landed ~21 sword swings against my opponent in the time it took him to kill me in ~4 swings. In spite of my tremendous skill advantage over him, he had gear (RPG progression) and I didn't.)
Just makes more sense to keep that style of game as the games that are being offered.
Well, you can't just slap a new combat system over the standard MMO mechanics, that is true but having a huge gap in power isn't really what makes a game a RPG (and you already know that).
There are for that matter already mechanics in MMOs that fix that, GW2 for example lowers your power to the area around you which would mean you still would get an advatage but a skilled player would beat a bad one. You could basically rip that straight off.
It certainly isn't fun if it was impossible to defeat an opponent because they had too high stats but trinity games actually have the same problem already, it really doesn't have anything with the combat system to do. Havn't we had this same discussion before?
You do however need to rethink character skills a bit, it would suck if you only could stab at lvl 1 but that really isn't so hard to fix.
I don't think keeping the basic mechanics the same is a good idea or we would all still play M59, a lot have happened since and the genre do need to evolve, it it would have stayed the exactly same it would have died out 15 years ago.
That said, we certainly shouldn't have all MMOs move over to mechanics like this, we need options.
I've often wondered why gear (or scaling stat progression) is often considered a definitive trait for RPG's.
To me, it's always been the ability to interact with the world and influence the way the story progresses. I.E. playing the role of your character, making decisions on behalf of your character that force certain reactions from your surroundings.
Afterall, RPG means Role Playing Game, not Role Playing & Gear. Not to say that your definition is wrong. I just question it.
I could imagine a game with plenty of freedom of interaction and opportunity to develop a character's role, alongside having a more action-oriented set of mechanics for combat, which usually is a rather competitive ordeal. I personally consider more direct control in competition a good thing.
Like you said in your own example of Darkfall. Your skill outshined that of your opponent, but he simply had a mathematical advantage over you. Why is that mathematical advantage necessary to call it an RPG?
Eh, the term has been tied to progression since the beginning. That's just what RPG means. It's never been the literal "role-playing game" because that's too vague to be a useful term (you "play a role" in nearly every game ever!)
Gear is merely one form of progression.
If you're interested in non-RPGs that's fine. When I want good PVP I simply find it in non-RPGs, because RPGs are tied to progression and progression harms PVP quality. (I didn't stick around in Darkfall's PVP. I dabble in a lot of games because I'm a professional game designer.) There's no point in trying to extricate progression from RPGs; they're basically one and the same.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Try dabbling in RPGs more then, there's a continued evolution towards more action-driven gameplay that uses stats and progression only as a secondary feature set.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Mount & Blade Warband Melee combat > Chivalry melee combat.
Chivalry is more aimed for quick action than skill.
All Warband needs to improve is having a stamina bar.
It also needs more active Native servers as well. Mount and siege and GK team death match are about the only two options normally, with MOunt and siege being active only at off hours to my schedule ( early morning to mid day).. Hence being stuck playing Chivalry.
I actually barely played on the native servers when I played the game.
It was on a mod named cRPG. It had persistent levels, gold to buy equipment/weapons from a website that linked ingame and upon reaching certain levels you could restart from level one, get a loom point to boost the stats of a weapon or armor and level faster. This is where you could find most of the skilled people playing the game. Before I had no idea how stats could affect the character in battle. I also had no idea about feinting instead of just attacking randomly and hope they block the wrong side.
My favorite modes are Battle and Siege. I'm not a fan of Death Match or Team Death Match.
I' am really excited about conan exiles could be the sh**. But tbh i'm a bit cautious, cause i still remeber the release of AoC. Of Kings and Men also looks promising but i don't know if it's a mmorpg or just like crpg all about pvp.
I would be happy with a combat system in an MMO like Kingdom of Amalur
I'd sell one of my kidneys for an MMO with combat like that.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Eh, the term has been tied to progression since the beginning. That's just what RPG means. It's never been the literal "role-playing game" because that's too vague to be a useful term (you "play a role" in nearly every game ever!)
Gear is merely one form of progression.
That is because computers are good at tracking progression, and sucks at being a DM for RP. If i really want RP, i play tabletop RPGs.
Ugh the forced fps with shaky cam effect was enough to make me feel sick to my stomach.
No thanks.
Well, the camera was a bit too much Blair witch, that is certainly true but I kinda think that you could fix that or go 3rd person to get rid of the motion sickness many people otherwise would get.
Op I do not know much about that title you have shown but with that fidelity I assume that is either a single player game or a match based pvp type of game.
Older combat video.
"Real" sandbox 10,000 player mmo starting testing in a few weeks.
Comments
To me, it's always been the ability to interact with the world and influence the way the story progresses. I.E. playing the role of your character, making decisions on behalf of your character that force certain reactions from your surroundings.
Afterall, RPG means Role Playing Game, not Role Playing & Gear. Not to say that your definition is wrong. I just question it.
I could imagine a game with plenty of freedom of interaction and opportunity to develop a character's role, alongside having a more action-oriented set of mechanics for combat, which usually is a rather competitive ordeal. I personally consider more direct control in competition a good thing.
Like you said in your own example of Darkfall. Your skill outshined that of your opponent, but he simply had a mathematical advantage over you. Why is that mathematical advantage necessary to call it an RPG?
You could hypothetically have an RPG with pure story, but that would be more of an interactive novel or pure role play than a role playing game.
Chivalry is more aimed for quick action than skill.
All Warband needs to improve is having a stamina bar.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In mmorpg,i want players to work together and not against each other and i want grouping.I don't login a MMO to play solo,that is a nonsense idea.
I want more strategy than skill,to me strategy is also a skill and also imo a MORE important one than simply pressing r-l-r-back dbl tap dodge.To me games that use these combo moves look retarded,NOBODY is ever going to do moves like that and get some bonus attack out of it.
In real life combat or challenging sport we call it "feinting" or deception moves to fool your opponent,you cannot properly replicate that in a computer game,so i don't want it in my game at least not in my mmorpg games.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There are for that matter already mechanics in MMOs that fix that, GW2 for example lowers your power to the area around you which would mean you still would get an advatage but a skilled player would beat a bad one. You could basically rip that straight off.
It certainly isn't fun if it was impossible to defeat an opponent because they had too high stats but trinity games actually have the same problem already, it really doesn't have anything with the combat system to do. Havn't we had this same discussion before?
You do however need to rethink character skills a bit, it would suck if you only could stab at lvl 1 but that really isn't so hard to fix.
I don't think keeping the basic mechanics the same is a good idea or we would all still play M59, a lot have happened since and the genre do need to evolve, it it would have stayed the exactly same it would have died out 15 years ago.
That said, we certainly shouldn't have all MMOs move over to mechanics like this, we need options.
Gear is merely one form of progression.
If you're interested in non-RPGs that's fine. When I want good PVP I simply find it in non-RPGs, because RPGs are tied to progression and progression harms PVP quality. (I didn't stick around in Darkfall's PVP. I dabble in a lot of games because I'm a professional game designer.) There's no point in trying to extricate progression from RPGs; they're basically one and the same.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It was on a mod named cRPG. It had persistent levels, gold to buy equipment/weapons from a website that linked ingame and upon reaching certain levels you could restart from level one, get a loom point to boost the stats of a weapon or armor and level faster. This is where you could find most of the skilled people playing the game. Before I had no idea how stats could affect the character in battle. I also had no idea about feinting instead of just attacking randomly and hope they block the wrong side.
My favorite modes are Battle and Siege. I'm not a fan of Death Match or Team Death Match.
Of Kings and Men also looks promising but i don't know if it's a mmorpg or just like crpg all about pvp.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
CRPGs are not for that.
Older combat video.
"Real" sandbox 10,000 player mmo starting testing in a few weeks.
Life IS Feudal