I'd like to see meaningful PvP. Not just fighting to take a keep in a zone that is only for grinding realm ranks. I want to see a game that is fun before the PvP, with meaningful goals and progression that I actually fight over with other players.
To me, Darkness Falls was about the only thing I liked about DAoC. Everything else was just a more generic version of EQ with more fleshed out melee classes. That is what CU needs to bring if I am going to play it.
I know it's a lot to ask for but I hope it has that old crowd that enjoys MMORPGs for what's good in them instead of dissecting them and trolling them for what isn't so good.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
No cash shop breaking my immersion. Also the new server side calculations that are supposed to help prevent cheating. Responsible coding that builds a strong basis for a confident player base and proud dev team.
I'm not looking for another pvp game. I play LoL and if I want pvp I can go there. What I can't find in the games that are currently out is a great player community. Many times you will see a great community of players in pve games. While there are nice people playing pvp games, pvp games seem to have a high percentage of unpleasant people playing them. For a game to have a good community, there needs to be mechanisms in place for players to work together and make friends. Some ways I think you can help create a good community are:
1. Encourage grouping and player interaction - I don't mind for there to be some ability to solo but the game should strongly encourage grouping as the optimal way to achieve goals in the game. I would love a game where there is a bonus reward for groups to be full.
2. Encourage players to join guilds and alliances and encourage the guilds and alliances to recruit players - Many games have guilds and/or alliances but few games seem to have much reason for players to join guilds and the guilds don't have much reason to recruit players.
3. Encourage zergs - I am fine with all types of pvp, 1v1 or group vs group or zerg vs zerg. However, I think a rvr games is meant to have zerg vs zerg. Why automatically ally all players in a realm if you don't want them to fight together as a realm? If the main emphasis is 1v1 or group vs group then why make it a rvr game?
4. Player Structures - These can be shops, alliance halls, castles or defenses that players can gather around and interact with other players.
5. Player Economy - Players interacting to trade goods and services is another way a community can develop.
6. Removal of Players who are rude to, steal from or harass other players.
I really hope that CU does not leave it to chance that a good player community develops but actively looks for ways to encourage its development.
+1 on most of what you said. Here's where you/I agree/disagree.
1. Couldn't agree more. I hope you like our grouping+ systems. 2. Same as above. My caveat is that I don't like unlimited guild size nor multi-guilding. 3. Yes and no on this. We will not try to eliminate all zergs but rather provide effective counters and encourage players to stay away from the roaming zerg gameplay that has hurt a number of titles, including WAR. 4. Yep. Almost everything except the starting cities is built by players. 5. Major +1, QFT, here. Players craft approximately 99% of the items (starter items are given to the players at, well, start). 6. Rude is hard (how to define?) but harassment is easier.
It will. We are trying to have a mixture of old school values with some more modern graphics. We're nowhere close to that yet but with our new PBR/HDR systems going in, we're getting closer.
Addictive RvR -- the type that makes me can't wait to login every day and makes me struggle to pull myself away from the computer when it is time to log. I haven't found that except in DAOC.
The feeling of participation in a real world in real conflict as opposed to gaming the system for carrots such as maximal stats and progression.
Yep. That's part of the reason for the building system. Burning down YOUR enemy's house is so much more satisfying than taking a keep than you've probably taken/lost so many times already.
Freedom from hand holding and safety rails for the lesser beings.
Agreed. Same with invisible walls right? They should fall off cliffs and not be saved if they are foolish enough to stand by an edge in the middle of RvR.
The list is too long to post . Developers know themselves what constitutes a great game,a game they can brag proudly about and not just in jest but in seriousness.
They also know that in MOST cases they cannot deliver that game but instead have to stoop to low standards of lying and promoting the product they do have because that is their only option.
That is the sad reality of life,you will never get the truth only sales pitches.I can also guarantee that the owner Mark Jacobs with a straight honest face would tell you in private it is not a great game but merely the best he can do under the circumstances or NEAR BEST he can do. You know it,i know it but it is up to us weather we accept the effort given and that is ALWAYS what i comment on in games is the effort. I can tell you straight up the MOST important facet of a game is not in ANY of these games and that is a realistic ECO system,that is the first part of a game design that SHOULD be there but takes a lot of work and effort and AI to pull off.
I agree with you on the economic system, 100%. I also hope that I have shown, since my independence from EA, that I'm always willing to take the heat/blame just as I did with our last delay. No BS, just Andrew and I sitting in front of our Backers doing a non-scripted livestream. If I haven't yet, I hope to convince you by the time we launch.
Like the old DAoC the CS reps respond in game to help with reported problems.
Both are confirmed. My attitude on full price sub+cash shop games is pretty well known, almost as well known as my opinion on gold sellers. P.S. I sent you a PM about the question you asked. Really sorry about not responding sooner, I just didn't notice a good a PM here since I so rarely do, I'm not used to checking, my bad.
Make RvR has impact in economy circulation. It would be nice if RvR has impact on price of certain resources, so that will drives people to participate. I think this way would enhance RvR experience by forcing every sides to come up with better strategy every time they have clashes.
I expect that will happen, especially when it comes to The Depths and rare minerals.
Start with what DAOC has and add.....crafter oriented......building construction and destruction......player oriented economy.....all items and magics will be player crafted....abilities increase with their use.....horizontal progression (not vertical).....no cash shop....no cross realming.....no action combat......no pve(except for crafter materials).......real realm pride......player and spell collision.
Thank you for that.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
It was so exciting to be involved in long-term RVR action, fortress attack, zerg-on-zerg, one-on-one, the thrill of entering dangerous frontiers, etc.
That's why we are spending so much time on building our own engine, to handle that large-scale RvR that we know we couldn't have done (especially back in 2013) with commercial engines. So far, so good.
They need a driven non diminishing return endgame. I don't want to log on just to take a keep or castle with no real effect. It gets boring quick. There needs to be a reason other than the same to keep coming back. The end game needs to have value for your actions.
Yep, couldn't agree more. That concept is at the art of almost everything we are doing.
Large PvP fights involving distinctive classes and skills. Those fights also rewarding player skill and not lagging. It is so important they don't lag.
I just spent the last few hours reading through all the different classes and foundational principles. I played daoc from 2001 to 2013 and warhammer for 6 months and they were botrh very good. Warhammer obviously suffered from EA, but the game could have been really great.
Marc Jacobs wants to bring back the old feeling of being part of a realm, part of a community that we had in Daoc.
So thats one thing, the community.
Then there is the depth. So much depth to abilities and how they can be combined. So many classes and all different so that, similar to dark age, you can spend years playing each realm and all of the classes. There is massive depth to the spell system and how different spells interact with each other and even with the weather. More depth involved with the armor you are wearing and the spells you are trying to use. I could go on and on, cause... well... its deep.
No handholding. No maps that show you the game world and take all of the mystery out of it. I loved that about Daoc. I think it made the world which was actually large, feel even larger. You could and often did get lost, especially when trying to find mobs in Cursed Forest. Of course they later added the map, but it was more fun without it. You actually need to learn the lay of the land and learn landmarks and have a sense of direction in Unchained.
When i started playing video games on PC most people didnt have computers. They were something that smart kids had for the most part and the games that were made for them were aimed at smart kids who were anything but mainstream. Daoc came out when most people still didnt have, or were just starting to aquire pcs, and it was aimed at the pre-wow era gamers. Marc says that he is making the game for people like us. I used to have games on my commadore 64 that were deeper and had much better gameplay than most modern mmos. Sid Meiers' Pirates, anyone?
No cash shop, subscription based. Don't think i need to elaborate on that.
RvR. The only game that currently has 3 faction pvp that is good is Planetside 2. Love that game, but i still need to run around in a world of swords and sorcery sometimes.
So im looking forward to this game having lots of things that other games dont have.
Wow,t hanks for reading all of them. I'm glad you like what you read. Having deep systems has been one of my main goals with the design of this game from the beginning. It is going to be quite interesting to see how all of it interacts once it goes from being on paper to being in the game. It certainly won't be dull.
All I want is a solid game that provides a little bit of entertainment value.
That's easy. I say that only because we have been focusing on building solid foundations for everything we do. That's one of the reasons we are deep in what Andrew is calling the "re-abilitation" of the ability system. It needed to be better, and it will be.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Good pvp; well implemented game mechanics that are designed from the ground up to facilitate pvp, with gear / level scaling taking a back seat to skill and group coordination.
+1, though I hope we will have great RvR. As always, time will tell.
Deep Combat Mechanics - Plenty of skills per character (min 20+), good group play, focus on player skill rather than gear score etc.
Accessible RvR - I love objective-based open world pvp. I love fighting over keeps, objectives etc. However, the accessible part is important. I want to be able to pvp solo, small group, standard group and raid and be able to contribute and have fun in all group sizes. This is something WAR failed at - you raided / zerged / premade, or you died.
Houses / Castles - I truly believe that the future of sandbox mmos lies with the ability to create semi-permanent structures in the real world (i.e. not instanced). CU looks to be taking a decent step in that direction
Basically, I want to come home from work, then after I've had dinner, logon and pvp with friends for a few hours. When I start getting tired / drained then I'd like to "retire" to my plot, wherever it might be, and spend 20mins extending whatever I'm building. Maybe I only have time to extend a wall around my field. Maybe I can add a tower to my house. Maybe I'm trying to build a small keep so I might have to go mining for 30mins.
Kill -> Loot -> Enjoy the spoils of war!
Sounds like a good way to spend the evening. Add another 20 mins going into C.U.B.E. to work on your "ultimate" design and then invite your friends to check it out with you. That would work for me.
Something to work toward in the game for bragging rights.. something that only the best PVPers end up having like Vanguard had infamy, for example, and it did not effect you in a bad way if you had poor infamy.. it was only for bragging rights.. but I think I like to show off so when people hover over my name they see that I am not to be messed with. In Guild Wars they had titles.. In Darkfall you end up remembering who the good players are because it effects you so much..
A simple scoreboard is not enough for me... I want more... something to grind for preferably that is hard as hell to obtain.
If there is going to be a long grind than noob PVP should be just as fun as endgame PVP.
No PVE solo content or storyline.. just have as much group PVE and PVP as possible..
You'll get more than a simple scoreboard or Herald from us, that's a promise.
I know the developer is big on crafting, I'm hoping he can deliver something even better than SWG was. That and some meaningful pvp and I'll be playing this game for sure. Sorry OP, but this game will definitly have pvp.
If our crafting system only be as good as good as SWG was, I'd be content. Raph kicked ass on that system and it's a pretty high bar to leap over. OTOH, I'm trying to do just that with our system.
Without that, there is no point in our game. One of the most insightful things Andrew has said (I love quoting him, it's nice I don't have to quote myself all the time) is that we want to make losing as fun as possible. If we can do that, we'll have a winner.
Since it's a large scale PvP game these are my expectations:
1. Performs well with lots of players on screen 2. Has meaningful objectives that encourage team play 3. Realm pride 4. Fair play by keeping exploits in check 5. Balanced factions 6. Fun to play
Since it's a large scale PvP game these are my expectations:
1. Performs well with lots of players on screen 2. Has meaningful objectives that encourage team play 3. Realm pride 4. Fair play by keeping exploits in check 5. Balanced factions 6. Fun to play
Dark age of Camelot! Damn I miss that game.
Hopefully Camelot Unchained will one day earn the same feeling from you and other players.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
Addictive RvR -- the type that makes me can't wait to login every day and makes me struggle to pull myself away from the computer when it is time to log. I haven't found that except in DAOC.
same here..... WaR was fun but still a let down... RoR private server flat out sucks.... DAOC was a blast
It was a great game, made by a great team. Thank you.
Original ideas that actually work and are not pipe dreams that get butchered down to something vaguely resembling the original design.
So far, no butchering has happened. That's why we delayed the Beta. We could have done some serious butchering of the ability system but we said "Fxxx it", apologized, paid refunds (and are continuing to do so), and moved on to doing our jobs. Hopefully our Backers will appreciate the effort.
I'd like to see meaningful PvP. Not just fighting to take a keep in a zone that is only for grinding realm ranks. I want to see a game that is fun before the PvP, with meaningful goals and progression that I actually fight over with other players.
To me, Darkness Falls was about the only thing I liked about DAoC. Everything else was just a more generic version of EQ with more fleshed out melee classes. That is what CU needs to bring if I am going to play it.
Challenge accepted. I hope you like The Depths.
Mark Jacobs CEO, City State Entertainment
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
I know it's a lot to ask for but I hope it has that old crowd that enjoys MMORPGs for what's good in them instead of dissecting them and trolling them for what isn't so good.
Agreed. That's what we are trying to do. Only time will tell if we are doing it the right way.
No cash shop breaking my immersion. Also the new server side calculations that are supposed to help prevent cheating. Responsible coding that builds a strong basis for a confident player base and proud dev team.
Yep. The full server-side physics system will make a huge difference in eliminating a lot of player cheating.
I want CU to be Dark Age of Camelot 2. I started playing DAoC in high school. It has been 15 years and I have never played another game that encouraged such a strong bond for your realm. I basically want everything else that DAoC had as well, including:
a wide range of available class options with loads of ability and passive customization
a "sort of" unique class options for each faction
I want PvE as an option including public dungeons (not Catacombs-style instances) and SI-style public raids. I had so much fun in Caer Sidi and I still adore my Spectral Soul Anchor. Mark do you know who's responsible for that weapon? It was beautiful - name, appearance, function, etc.
basically endless pvp ranks with an accompanying title system and fun pvp progression abilities and passives
Maybe that realm wars map on a website that DAoC used to have? How about a cellphone app to check on the realm wars?
I want the VN Boards again! That's not really a game feature, and I guess now we have reddit, so Mark, please get involved with reddit once the CU reddit boards get super active. It was awesome how involved you were with the community back then.. and now, right here on mmorpg.com!
I want crafting, but I do not want DAoC-style crafting where you purchase your materials from the shop. I think this was dull. I don't know the extent of what CU is going to offer in terms of housing, but I love the idea of having to grow your own crops or herbs (kind of like Archeage),
then converting those into crafting materials and transforming them into
actual products, potions, poisons, foods, etc. What about installing a
"mine" in your land where you can go down a hole and mine out
periodically respawning ores. This is a little bit Wildstar-esque, but
it sounds way more appealing that just buying all of my materials from
the crafting merchant.
Please consider that instances (housing, dungeons, battlegrounds) impact the community in your game. Most people will attribute Trials of Atlantis to DAoC's downfall, but I honestly think Catacombs did more damage by making the game significantly more singleplayer.
I would love to be able to claim a space somewhere in the actual game world, not an instance, where your guild could build a castle or compound.
Honestly, Mark Jacobs is involved, so I'm going to buy the product either way. That said, I hope the game has a large helping of Shrouded Isles, a selectively modest portion of Trials of Atlantis, and a tiny spoonful of Catacombs.
Something that has been sorely lacking in many so-called PvP games lately. Cross class interactions which allow for small teams of talented players to decimate much larger forces. I miss being able to roam around with my brother and a few friends that played together constantly and being able to take on uncoordinated zergs simply because we were each not only capable of soloing several players on our own if needed, but had also mastered playing off of eachother's skills to combine damage and CC to devastating effect while keeping our own risk low and utilizing nearby terrain to keep the zerg from being able to pin us down.
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
Thanks for taking the time responding to all of us! I wish the best for your game and hope to enjoy it soon. I'm also enthusiastic about the different factions with each having unique lore.
Something that has been sorely lacking in many so-called PvP games lately. Cross class interactions which allow for small teams of talented players to decimate much larger forces. I miss being able to roam around with my brother and a few friends that played together constantly and being able to take on uncoordinated zergs simply because we were each not only capable of soloing several players on our own if needed, but had also mastered playing off of eachother's skills to combine damage and CC to devastating effect while keeping our own risk low and utilizing nearby terrain to keep the zerg from being able to pin us down.
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
I've done that in ESO and GW2. The problem when they get massive pvp is people begin to cry because its a zerg fest. These kinds of things are easily avoided but it takes instanced fights and well people don't like that either. You can beef up seige damage like ESO did but then you would need to do something like not allow players to just drop seige anywhere they want however they want. GW2 has a problem with aoe's. You can see it in every large fight there is just aoe's everywhere and well thats kinda crappy but there are no other options really. Honestly I think Unit collision would be something that might change a lot of how we play games and even stop this zerging mentality. Imagine actually having to march in ranks and keep your shield up so the archers behind you don't get hit ect ect.... That is really what we need for massive pvp something that will fix it instead of just another blob of players all standing in the same spot. So unrealistic.
Are you onto something or just on something?
MarkJacobsCEO City State EntertainmentMemberRarePosts: 649
I want CU to be Dark Age of Camelot 2. I started playing DAoC in high school. It has been 15 years and I have never played another game that encouraged such a strong bond for your realm. I basically want everything else that DAoC had as well, including:
a wide range of available class options with loads of ability and passive customization
a "sort of" unique class options for each faction
I want PvE as an option including public dungeons (not Catacombs-style instances) and SI-style public raids. I had so much fun in Caer Sidi and I still adore my Spectral Soul Anchor. Mark do you know who's responsible for that weapon? It was beautiful - name, appearance, function, etc.
basically endless pvp ranks with an accompanying title system and fun pvp progression abilities and passives
Maybe that realm wars map on a website that DAoC used to have? How about a cellphone app to check on the realm wars?
I want the VN Boards again! That's not really a game feature, and I guess now we have reddit, so Mark, please get involved with reddit once the CU reddit boards get super active. It was awesome how involved you were with the community back then.. and now, right here on mmorpg.com!
I want crafting, but I do not want DAoC-style crafting where you purchase your materials from the shop. I think this was dull. I don't know the extent of what CU is going to offer in terms of housing, but I love the idea of having to grow your own crops or herbs (kind of like Archeage),
then converting those into crafting materials and transforming them into
actual products, potions, poisons, foods, etc. What about installing a
"mine" in your land where you can go down a hole and mine out
periodically respawning ores. This is a little bit Wildstar-esque, but
it sounds way more appealing that just buying all of my materials from
the crafting merchant.
Please consider that instances (housing, dungeons, battlegrounds) impact the community in your game. Most people will attribute Trials of Atlantis to DAoC's downfall, but I honestly think Catacombs did more damage by making the game significantly more singleplayer.
I would love to be able to claim a space somewhere in the actual game world, not an instance, where your guild could build a castle or compound.
Honestly, Mark Jacobs is involved, so I'm going to buy the product either way. That said, I hope the game has a large helping of Shrouded Isles, a selectively modest portion of Trials of Atlantis, and a tiny spoonful of Catacombs.
Thanks for all the compliments (and criticism) of Dark Age of Camelot, it is appreciated. What I can definitely tell you tonight is that:
1) The crafting/economy are more SWG than Dark Age. In some ways, it actually has more of a connection to my MUDs than to Dark Age. The idea of specially crafted weapons with different materials, came from there. We cannot do it for Dark Age (time, cost) and we messed it up big time in WAR but it is definitely in this game already.
2) As to instances, the only ones the game will have are reserved for true newbies to help them get used to the game's "more complicated than the usual MMORPG" mechanics.
3) You can't claim a space (that's in a future game by our lead spaceship engineer JB!) but you can claim land and build you house, keep, etc. Okay, that was a bad pun, it's late and I'm stuffed from delicious food. Land claiming (both in your Realm's territory and the other two despicable, nasty, evil and downright smelly Realms) is a major part of the game.
I thank you for your kind words about me, they are appreciated. I do hope you love what you see from us in the not too distant future.
It all sounds great.... MarkJacobs, but stop wasting time here and get back to work......
LOL. I was writing all that before I left for the office to join the Lady J for dinner. Finished a great meal at one of my fave restaurants and stopped back in the office on the way back. I actually don't spend much time on posting, I write really quickly (as Backers found out during the two story challenges I did) and since I'm no longer part of EA, I don't have to choose my words as carefully.
Something that has been sorely lacking in many so-called PvP games lately. Cross class interactions which allow for small teams of talented players to decimate much larger forces. I miss being able to roam around with my brother and a few friends that played together constantly and being able to take on uncoordinated zergs simply because we were each not only capable of soloing several players on our own if needed, but had also mastered playing off of eachother's skills to combine damage and CC to devastating effect while keeping our own risk low and utilizing nearby terrain to keep the zerg from being able to pin us down.
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
Yeah, that's an important thing for us to get right. It's why one of the topics on our Forums right now is "attrition". Being able to weaken a zerg while it is roaming the world is crucial to our success. If zerg-play is the most dominant form of play in this game, the game will fail to be everything I hope it can be. As I've said before, we don't want to eliminate the zerg but we don't want it to be the best way to win every night.
Thanks for taking the time responding to all of us! I wish the best for your game and hope to enjoy it soon. I'm also enthusiastic about the different factions with each having unique lore.
You're welcome! As to the unique factions, yep, its what I believed in for Dark Age of Camelot (thank you Kesmai Corp. for showing me the importance of three Realms) and obviously WAR. I really love writing the lore for this game and thanks to Max (our in-house writer, editor, board game designer), my writing reads so much better. I'm pretty good at coming up with the stories but man, my grammar does sucketh.
Thanks all for your posts, I'm heading home now for the evening. I actually want to get some writing done on one of the graphic novels I've been creating on the side (I substituted writing them for playing games, still waiting for a great new MMO to play).
A game whose CEO is the worst spammer on a 3rd party side. Or a bit nicer said: Decent dev team who works with the community. A game can't fail if this is a thing and the team knows the difference between a real concern and whining (i.e. daoc: midgard not having a bomb being a real concern and berserkers (doublefrost nerf) whining)
Plus all the things we already know they work on. - Good crafters: Not just afk clicking in town every 2.3 sec but actually join RvR and be useful. - Building your own castles: If your guild spent days or weeks building that thing you WILL defend it! - Player made skills + interaction ...
All the other stuff that I hope for will come by itself. Groups will turn to guilds for easier communication while getting stronger. Later guilds will become alliances to coordinate RvR attacks and defenses. Through all of this some kind of realm pride will emerge and names of good fighters and crafters will be made known throughout the realm while guild colors will make sure the enemy realms fear certain groups and players.
@op 3. Imho a RvR game should have all: zerg, group and small group down to 1v1.Zergs will form because some group will crush a 1v1 who will come back with two groups which leads to 3 aso. The tricky part of a RvR game is to have that but also provide means to still have viable small number PvP. That is one aspect I guess we will see coming up in patches even in 2022 or they do find a magic solution... well I guess/hope they have with the void thing.
6. No, just no! I want to be rude, I want to steal from and even harass players. When I kill someone I want to dance on their rotting corpse and do it over and over again until they understand that this island belongs to us! And I want to steal their castles... cube by cube! And even in your own realm rude has to be a thing because if your group wipes we all know that it was the healers or cc-chars fault and the players should know that it was their fault. Yeah you need a thick'ish skin and quite a bit of humor for RvR, always has been that way, always will be. So stealing, harassing, being rude is a must in my opinon
Something that has been sorely lacking in many so-called PvP games lately. Cross class interactions which allow for small teams of talented players to decimate much larger forces. I miss being able to roam around with my brother and a few friends that played together constantly and being able to take on uncoordinated zergs simply because we were each not only capable of soloing several players on our own if needed, but had also mastered playing off of eachother's skills to combine damage and CC to devastating effect while keeping our own risk low and utilizing nearby terrain to keep the zerg from being able to pin us down.
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
I've done that in ESO and GW2. The problem when they get massive pvp is people begin to cry because its a zerg fest. These kinds of things are easily avoided but it takes instanced fights and well people don't like that either. You can beef up seige damage like ESO did but then you would need to do something like not allow players to just drop seige anywhere they want however they want. GW2 has a problem with aoe's. You can see it in every large fight there is just aoe's everywhere and well thats kinda crappy but there are no other options really. Honestly I think Unit collision would be something that might change a lot of how we play games and even stop this zerging mentality. Imagine actually having to march in ranks and keep your shield up so the archers behind you don't get hit ect ect.... That is really what we need for massive pvp something that will fix it instead of just another blob of players all standing in the same spot. So unrealistic.
Not only the aspect of collision you mention but also, just as irl, using that collision against the zerg to ambush and weaken them. Tough to lay a proper ambush and use the terrain when everyone can run through eachother, but with proper collision, all it takes is a few slow reacting players in the zerg to trap a bunch of others in the middle of being bombarded.
Same goes for using tanks as a barricade when you trap them in a choke point and rain death on their whole group.
Something that has been sorely lacking in many so-called PvP games lately. Cross class interactions which allow for small teams of talented players to decimate much larger forces. I miss being able to roam around with my brother and a few friends that played together constantly and being able to take on uncoordinated zergs simply because we were each not only capable of soloing several players on our own if needed, but had also mastered playing off of eachother's skills to combine damage and CC to devastating effect while keeping our own risk low and utilizing nearby terrain to keep the zerg from being able to pin us down.
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
I've done that in ESO and GW2. The problem when they get massive pvp is people begin to cry because its a zerg fest. These kinds of things are easily avoided but it takes instanced fights and well people don't like that either. You can beef up seige damage like ESO did but then you would need to do something like not allow players to just drop seige anywhere they want however they want. GW2 has a problem with aoe's. You can see it in every large fight there is just aoe's everywhere and well thats kinda crappy but there are no other options really. Honestly I think Unit collision would be something that might change a lot of how we play games and even stop this zerging mentality. Imagine actually having to march in ranks and keep your shield up so the archers behind you don't get hit ect ect.... That is really what we need for massive pvp something that will fix it instead of just another blob of players all standing in the same spot. So unrealistic.
Not only the aspect of collision you mention but also, just as irl, using that collision against the zerg to ambush and weaken them. Tough to lay a proper ambush and use the terrain when everyone can run through eachother, but with proper collision, all it takes is a few slow reacting players in the zerg to trap a bunch of others in the middle of being bombarded.
Same goes for using tanks as a barricade when you trap them in a choke point and rain death on their whole group.
Then we have the problem that comes with Unit collision. Trolls.... How to handle them will be a task worthy of even the most experienced pvp players. You could have a system where the players can actually mark a troll and he can be killed and even cast out of his faction. These would have strict guidelines and anyone who would abuse this well would of course end up being kicked out of their faction too. Imagine the consequences of being a troll are so bad that noone wants to be that way. You can do the whole spy thing like EVE but honestly that is one of the stupidest systems any game has had. If they had consequences like perma death then it would be cool but they just scam, troll, then move on with their lives because there wasn't a consequence worthy of the crime.
One thing of note is Planetside 2 has friendly fire. For some reason they were able to make it work. I haven't studied how they did it though.
I would like a system that encourages support play. Very few games give credit/reward for healing, buffing, debuffing, interupting/stunning etc. I'd also like to see better award systems and credit for defense/tank classes. If a game rewards cooperation and gives rewards for effectively being a team player it will be a great mmo. It will also more than likely get more people playing the support classes.
There are a number of newer mmos that seem to push you away from working with others. My wife and I play together in every mmo. In games like Blade and Soul and ESO there are main questlines you have to do solo no matter what. That irks me more than anything. So, I guess what i'm asking is to make sure that all content can be done with others. Thanks in advance if you read this.
Thanks for the responses Mark. The value of communication from the devs of a game is huge and helps build excitement for the game. IMO communicating with the fans of the game is work. Do PR departments work for free? or Advertising agencies?
Thanks very much for taking the time to visit here @MarkJacobs ;
Whilst I haven't played a huge amount of MMOs, it always made me feel valued when devs would visit forums and take the time to speak to their community. Its like an extra little bonus for being a fan and makes communication feel like a 2 way street (even if its just an illusion). Helps build confidence in the game and lets me feel like community is really valued.
Keep up the good work!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Comments
To me, Darkness Falls was about the only thing I liked about DAoC. Everything else was just a more generic version of EQ with more fleshed out melee classes. That is what CU needs to bring if I am going to play it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
+1 on most of what you said. Here's where you/I agree/disagree.
1. Couldn't agree more. I hope you like our grouping+ systems.
2. Same as above. My caveat is that I don't like unlimited guild size nor multi-guilding.
3. Yes and no on this. We will not try to eliminate all zergs but rather provide effective counters and encourage players to stay away from the roaming zerg gameplay that has hurt a number of titles, including WAR.
4. Yep. Almost everything except the starting cities is built by players.
5. Major +1, QFT, here. Players craft approximately 99% of the items (starter items are given to the players at, well, start).
6. Rude is hard (how to define?) but harassment is easier.
It will. We are trying to have a mixture of old school values with some more modern graphics. We're nowhere close to that yet but with our new PBR/HDR systems going in, we're getting closer.
+1, but you already knew that.
More coming.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Yep. That's part of the reason for the building system. Burning down YOUR enemy's house is so much more satisfying than taking a keep than you've probably taken/lost so many times already.
Have you seen our launcher? It's pretty sweet! JB, James, and the Mod Squad kicked ass on it.
Agreed. Same with invisible walls right? They should fall off cliffs and not be saved if they are foolish enough to stand by an edge in the middle of RvR.
I agree with you on the economic system, 100%. I also hope that I have shown, since my independence from EA, that I'm always willing to take the heat/blame just as I did with our last delay. No BS, just Andrew and I sitting in front of our Backers doing a non-scripted livestream. If I haven't yet, I hope to convince you by the time we launch.
Both are confirmed. My attitude on full price sub+cash shop games is pretty well known, almost as well known as my opinion on gold sellers.
I expect that will happen, especially when it comes to The Depths and rare minerals.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
It's so nice when I can say that I have no doubt we'll meet those expectations.
Yep, couldn't agree more. That concept is at the art of almost everything we are doing.
+1, QFT, etc.
Wow,t hanks for reading all of them. I'm glad you like what you read. Having deep systems has been one of my main goals with the design of this game from the beginning. It is going to be quite interesting to see how all of it interacts once it goes from being on paper to being in the game. It certainly won't be dull.
That's easy. I say that only because we have been focusing on building solid foundations for everything we do. That's one of the reasons we are deep in what Andrew is calling the "re-abilitation" of the ability system. It needed to be better, and it will be.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Sounds like a good way to spend the evening. Add another 20 mins going into C.U.B.E. to work on your "ultimate" design and then invite your friends to check it out with you. That would work for me.
You'll get more than a simple scoreboard or Herald from us, that's a promise.
If our crafting system only be as good as good as SWG was, I'd be content. Raph kicked ass on that system and it's a pretty high bar to leap over. OTOH, I'm trying to do just that with our system.
Without that, there is no point in our game. One of the most insightful things Andrew has said (I love quoting him, it's nice I don't have to quote myself all the time) is that we want to make losing as fun as possible. If we can do that, we'll have a winner.
Mine as well.
Hopefully Camelot Unchained will one day earn the same feeling from you and other players.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
So far, no butchering has happened. That's why we delayed the Beta. We could have done some serious butchering of the ability system but we said "Fxxx it", apologized, paid refunds (and are continuing to do so), and moved on to doing our jobs. Hopefully our Backers will appreciate the effort.
Challenge accepted.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
Yep. The full server-side physics system will make a huge difference in eliminating a lot of player cheating.
Well, we did announce this in 2013.
Thanks again all for talking about our game. Again, sorry I didn't post here before today.
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
- a wide range of available class options with loads of ability and passive customization
- a "sort of" unique class options for each faction
- I want PvE as an option including public dungeons (not Catacombs-style instances) and SI-style public raids. I had so much fun in Caer Sidi and I still adore my Spectral Soul Anchor. Mark do you know who's responsible for that weapon? It was beautiful - name, appearance, function, etc.
- basically endless pvp ranks with an accompanying title system and fun pvp progression abilities and passives
- Maybe that realm wars map on a website that DAoC used to have? How about a cellphone app to check on the realm wars?
- I want the VN Boards again! That's not really a game feature, and I guess now we have reddit, so Mark, please get involved with reddit once the CU reddit boards get super active. It was awesome how involved you were with the community back then.. and now, right here on mmorpg.com!
I want crafting, but I do not want DAoC-style crafting where you purchase your materials from the shop. I think this was dull. I don't know the extent of what CU is going to offer in terms of housing, but I love the idea of having to grow your own crops or herbs (kind of like Archeage), then converting those into crafting materials and transforming them into actual products, potions, poisons, foods, etc. What about installing a "mine" in your land where you can go down a hole and mine out periodically respawning ores. This is a little bit Wildstar-esque, but it sounds way more appealing that just buying all of my materials from the crafting merchant.Please consider that instances (housing, dungeons, battlegrounds) impact the community in your game. Most people will attribute Trials of Atlantis to DAoC's downfall, but I honestly think Catacombs did more damage by making the game significantly more singleplayer.
I would love to be able to claim a space somewhere in the actual game world, not an instance, where your guild could build a castle or compound.
Honestly, Mark Jacobs is involved, so I'm going to buy the product either way. That said, I hope the game has a large helping of Shrouded Isles, a selectively modest portion of Trials of Atlantis, and a tiny spoonful of Catacombs.
searching for the next DAoC....
Kay-exile
I miss the glory days of gank squads with great guerrilla tactics repelling zergs in RvR. Sadly most games have become all about numbers.
1) The crafting/economy are more SWG than Dark Age. In some ways, it actually has more of a connection to my MUDs than to Dark Age. The idea of specially crafted weapons with different materials, came from there. We cannot do it for Dark Age (time, cost) and we messed it up big time in WAR but it is definitely in this game already.
2) As to instances, the only ones the game will have are reserved for true newbies to help them get used to the game's "more complicated than the usual MMORPG" mechanics.
3) You can't claim a space (that's in a future game by our lead spaceship engineer JB!) but you can claim land and build you house, keep, etc. Okay, that was a bad pun, it's late and I'm stuffed from delicious food.
I thank you for your kind words about me, they are appreciated. I do hope you love what you see from us in the not too distant future.
LOL. I was writing all that before I left for the office to join the Lady J for dinner. Finished a great meal at one of my fave restaurants and stopped back in the office on the way back. I actually don't spend much time on posting, I write really quickly (as Backers found out during the two story challenges I did) and since I'm no longer part of EA, I don't have to choose my words as carefully.
Yeah, that's an important thing for us to get right. It's why one of the topics on our Forums right now is "attrition". Being able to weaken a zerg while it is roaming the world is crucial to our success. If zerg-play is the most dominant form of play in this game, the game will fail to be everything I hope it can be. As I've said before, we don't want to eliminate the zerg but we don't want it to be the best way to win every night.
You're welcome! As to the unique factions, yep, its what I believed in for Dark Age of Camelot (thank you Kesmai Corp. for showing me the importance of three Realms) and obviously WAR. I really love writing the lore for this game and thanks to Max (our in-house writer, editor, board game designer), my writing reads so much better. I'm pretty good at coming up with the stories but man, my grammar does sucketh.
Thanks all for your posts, I'm heading home now for the evening. I actually want to get some writing done on one of the graphic novels I've been creating on the side (I substituted writing them for playing games, still waiting for a great new MMO to play).
Night!
Mark Jacobs
CEO, City State Entertainment
A game whose CEO is the worst spammer on a 3rd party side. Or a bit nicer said: Decent dev team who works with the community. A game can't fail if this is a thing and the team knows the difference between a real concern and whining (i.e. daoc: midgard not having a bomb being a real concern and berserkers (doublefrost nerf) whining)
Plus all the things we already know they work on.
- Good crafters: Not just afk clicking in town every 2.3 sec but actually join RvR and be useful.
- Building your own castles: If your guild spent days or weeks building that thing you WILL defend it!
- Player made skills + interaction ...
All the other stuff that I hope for will come by itself. Groups will turn to guilds for easier communication while getting stronger. Later guilds will become alliances to coordinate RvR attacks and defenses. Through all of this some kind of realm pride will emerge and names of good fighters and crafters will be made known throughout the realm while guild colors will make sure the enemy realms fear certain groups and players.
@op
3. Imho a RvR game should have all: zerg, group and small group down to 1v1.Zergs will form because some group will crush a 1v1 who will come back with two groups which leads to 3 aso. The tricky part of a RvR game is to have that but also provide means to still have viable small number PvP. That is one aspect I guess we will see coming up in patches even in 2022 or they do find a magic solution... well I guess/hope they have with the void thing.
6. No, just no! I want to be rude, I want to steal from and even harass players. When I kill someone I want to dance on their rotting corpse and do it over and over again until they understand that this island belongs to us! And I want to steal their castles... cube by cube!
And even in your own realm rude has to be a thing because if your group wipes we all know that it was the healers or cc-chars fault and the players should know that it was their fault. Yeah you need a thick'ish skin and quite a bit of humor for RvR, always has been that way, always will be.
So stealing, harassing, being rude is a must in my opinon
Same goes for using tanks as a barricade when you trap them in a choke point and rain death on their whole group.
One thing of note is Planetside 2 has friendly fire. For some reason they were able to make it work. I haven't studied how they did it though.
There are a number of newer mmos that seem to push you away from working with others. My wife and I play together in every mmo. In games like Blade and Soul and ESO there are main questlines you have to do solo no matter what. That irks me more than anything. So, I guess what i'm asking is to make sure that all content can be done with others. Thanks in advance if you read this.
Whilst I haven't played a huge amount of MMOs, it always made me feel valued when devs would visit forums and take the time to speak to their community. Its like an extra little bonus for being a fan and makes communication feel like a 2 way street (even if its just an illusion). Helps build confidence in the game and lets me feel like community is really valued.
Keep up the good work!
have you considered doing other things with your time?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me