I started working on my own MMO style game played in a browser. Not the Action MMORPG game that is typical, more like a played offline sci space trading game with events and politics. Maybe it will be popular and CHANGE THE FACE OF MMOS FOREVER. But more realistically it might get 1000 players and have a couple of good ideas that someone in the big game development world likes.
Crap games diminish in both player base and further development.
So, it's safe to say on average it takes 6 years for the consumer to say NO NO and NO and the producer will finally listen.
Your first statement is a perfect description of SWG.
No actually the facts are rather clear. Mmorpgs have never been better over a six year period then they have been while you have gone. So it's safe to say you are NOT the consumer developer want they have plenty of other consumers. No the developers have not been missing your $15/month and could care less what you have been saying...sorry just wanted to welcome you to the real world and provide actual facts.
Finally. I've been waiting for somebody that knows what they are talking about, to pop in.
Can you list all the western AAA MMORPGs with more than 250K active subs as of today?
Well nobody really gives sub numbers anymore and the sub only model is also kind of obsolete...but for fun I list you a few...
WoW FFXIV GW2 Eso swtor eve
some lesser populated games
lotro Rift Neverwinter Marvel DC TerA AoC
Then you also have games that aren't mmorpgs but are now becoming more popular.
So, WoW, FFXIV, and maybe EVE are the only MMORPGs that have better than 250K active subs. The rest are B2P/F2P.
Is that a fair guess on my part?
Again the sub only model is obsolete and nobody released sub numbers so for you to say those are the only three healthy mmos because they fall into your own criteria of what makes a healthy mmo is far from accurate.
Then how in Odin's Balls can you sit there and bash SWG? Insult old school gamers, calling them irrelevant and bitter? When you can't even name more than 5 MMORPGs that have done better with subs?
When your new so-called superior MMORPGs can't even hold a candle to those subs. In fact, the numbers are so shit, so embarrassing, that they don't even post them any more.
You come off as a pretentious, jerk when you sit here and bash old games and old players. The games you support are proven to be crap. They peak within the first few months after release, then die off because you guys already jumped ship for the next thing.
What is so wonderful about you and your new MMORPGs?
They dumbed them down and put quantity over quality. Are they saying that there are far more stupid, low-quality people? That's how I see it. So what does that make you, exactly?
That's what you are proud about so much that you will look down on others?
Those older games still had more subs than your current MMORPGs. So, maybe I missed it, but where are these better MMORPGs with 250K+ subs? You named 5 out of how many releases since WOW?
If you're going to sit here and insult some of us, at least know what the hell you're even talking about. Game companies don't care about what you think you know. The MAJORITY of MMORPGs would give their lefty to have 250K+ paying long-term subs.
Crap games diminish in both player base and further development.
So, it's safe to say on average it takes 6 years for the consumer to say NO NO and NO and the producer will finally listen.
Your first statement is a perfect description of SWG.
No actually the facts are rather clear. Mmorpgs have never been better over a six year period then they have been while you have gone. So it's safe to say you are NOT the consumer developer want they have plenty of other consumers. No the developers have not been missing your $15/month and could care less what you have been saying...sorry just wanted to welcome you to the real world and provide actual facts.
Finally. I've been waiting for somebody that knows what they are talking about, to pop in.
Can you list all the western AAA MMORPGs with more than 250K active subs as of today?
Well nobody really gives sub numbers anymore and the sub only model is also kind of obsolete...but for fun I list you a few...
WoW FFXIV GW2 Eso swtor eve
some lesser populated games
lotro Rift Neverwinter Marvel DC TerA AoC
Then you also have games that aren't mmorpgs but are now becoming more popular.
So, WoW, FFXIV, and maybe EVE are the only MMORPGs that have better than 250K active subs. The rest are B2P/F2P.
Is that a fair guess on my part?
Again the sub only model is obsolete and nobody released sub numbers so for you to say those are the only three healthy mmos because they fall into your own criteria of what makes a healthy mmo is far from accurate.
Then how in Odin's Balls can you sit there and bash SWG? Insult old school gamers, calling them irrelevant and bitter? When you can't even name more than 5 MMORPGs that have done better with subs?
When your new so-called superior MMORPGs can't even hold a candle to those subs. In fact, the numbers are so shit, so embarrassing, that they don't eviien post them any more.
You come off as a pretentious, jerk when you sit here and bash old games and old players. The games you support are proven to be crap. They peak within the first few months after release, then die off because you guys already jumped ship for the next thing.
What is so wonderful about you and your new MMORPGs?
They dumbed them down and put quantity over quality. Are they saying that there are far more stupid, low-quality people? That's how I see it. So what does that make you, exactly?
That's what you are proud about so much that you will look down on others?
Those older games still had more subs than your current MMORPGs. So, maybe I missed it, but where are these better MMORPGs with 250K+ subs? You named 5 out of how many releases since WOW?
If you're going to sit here and insult some of us, at least know what the hell you're even talking about. Game companies don't care about what you think you know. The MAJORITY of MMORPGs would give their lefty to have 250K+ paying long-term subs.
Oh I see you get a little fussy when you are hit with facts. How can I bash SWG? Easy it's one of the only mmorpgs in the last 10 years that actually had to close. I wasn't aware you were Mr.Almighty and got to decide the threshold for what makes up a successful game.
No no little buddy clearly the Devs don't care what you and your bitter old vets think that is why nobody is making games that cater to you and why you guys are stuck being all miserable on sites like this.
Lets do a little math equation for you shall we.
In 2013 Swtor for example made $139,000,000 just on the cartel market.
Ok get ready let's start with your magic number of 250,000 subs...id love to see how you came up with this magic number btw.
250,000 X $14.99= $3,500,000
$3,500,000 X 12 = $45,000,000
139,000,000 \ 45,000,000 = 3.08
In case you are having issues with the math swtor in one year made just off the cartel market what it would take your old school mmorpgs THREE YEARS to make if they had 250,000 subs every month, which we all know never happened.
If you don't want to be called out for being left in the dust and being a bitter old vet don't act like one. Clearly you are the one who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Welcome to 2016 pal I suggest you suck it up and find a new hobby.
If stating fact is looking down on others then so be it. You are bitter just read your little post, just because YOU think YOU get to determine what millions of people are playing is crap or not just proves how out of touch you are. It's not been proven these games are crap if they were crap they would have close like SWG but nope they are all still up, updating, and have players. Listen pal you speak for yourself you are a prime example of a bitter old vet again I know you don't like or can handle the facts but that's just too bad.
Crap games diminish in both player base and further development.
So, it's safe to say on average it takes 6 years for the consumer to say NO NO and NO and the producer will finally listen.
Your first statement is a perfect description of SWG.
No actually the facts are rather clear. Mmorpgs have never been better over a six year period then they have been while you have gone. So it's safe to say you are NOT the consumer developer want they have plenty of other consumers. No the developers have not been missing your $15/month and could care less what you have been saying...sorry just wanted to welcome you to the real world and provide actual facts.
Finally. I've been waiting for somebody that knows what they are talking about, to pop in.
Can you list all the western AAA MMORPGs with more than 250K active subs as of today?
Well nobody really gives sub numbers anymore and the sub only model is also kind of obsolete...but for fun I list you a few...
WoW FFXIV GW2 Eso swtor eve
some lesser populated games
lotro Rift Neverwinter Marvel DC TerA AoC
Then you also have games that aren't mmorpgs but are now becoming more popular.
So, WoW, FFXIV, and maybe EVE are the only MMORPGs that have better than 250K active subs. The rest are B2P/F2P.
Is that a fair guess on my part?
Again the sub only model is obsolete and nobody released sub numbers so for you to say those are the only three healthy mmos because they fall into your own criteria of what makes a healthy mmo is far from accurate.
Then how in Odin's Balls can you sit there and bash SWG? Insult old school gamers, calling them irrelevant and bitter? When you can't even name more than 5 MMORPGs that have done better with subs?
When your new so-called superior MMORPGs can't even hold a candle to those subs. In fact, the numbers are so shit, so embarrassing, that they don't eviien post them any more.
You come off as a pretentious, jerk when you sit here and bash old games and old players. The games you support are proven to be crap. They peak within the first few months after release, then die off because you guys already jumped ship for the next thing.
What is so wonderful about you and your new MMORPGs?
They dumbed them down and put quantity over quality. Are they saying that there are far more stupid, low-quality people? That's how I see it. So what does that make you, exactly?
That's what you are proud about so much that you will look down on others?
Those older games still had more subs than your current MMORPGs. So, maybe I missed it, but where are these better MMORPGs with 250K+ subs? You named 5 out of how many releases since WOW?
If you're going to sit here and insult some of us, at least know what the hell you're even talking about. Game companies don't care about what you think you know. The MAJORITY of MMORPGs would give their lefty to have 250K+ paying long-term subs.
Oh I see you get a little fussy when you are hit with facts. How can I bash SWG? Easy it's one of the only mmorpgs in the last 10 years that actually had to close. I wasn't aware you were Mr.Almighty and got to decide the threshold for what makes up a successful game.
No no little buddy clearly the Devs don't care what you and your bitter old vets think that is why nobody is making games that cater to you and why you guys are stuck being all miserable on sites like this.
Lets do a little math equation for you shall we.
In 2013 Swtor for example made $139,000,000 just on the cartel market.
Ok get ready let's start with your magic number of 250,000 subs...id love to see how you came up with this magic number btw.
250,000 X $14.99= $3,500,000
$3,500,000 X 12 = $45,000,000
139,000,000 \ 45,000,000 = 3.08
In case you are having issues with the math swtor in one year made just off the cartel market what it would take your old school mmorpgs THREE YEARS to make if they had 250,000 subs every month, which we all know never happened.
If you don't want to be called out for being left in the dust and being a bitter old get don't act like one. Clearly you are the one who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Welcome to 2016 pal I suggest you suck it up and find a new hobby.
It's [current year]!!!
And what are you doing with this math vomit? Because I said they make dumb down, low-quality games for a larger audience, [mod edit]
Yep, SWG closed. And SWTOR spent the most money to develop and the quickest AAA to go F2P. It had to resort to gimmicks because nobody wanted to sub. Total failure. Probably not what I would have chosen to be an example of how much better your era in gaming is than mine.
Hey, they made a lot of money off cash shop. Most F2P do; that's not what my question was even about.
All that money and hardly any one to play with. Maybe this petition to merge all servers into 1 West Coast and 1 East Coast will help. But, they are running out of servers to merge. How many merges has it been now, btw?
It is well known SWG at its peak had 300K subs. EQ had 450K. Just because YOU were not around back then doesn't change that fact. SOE, as usual, made very dumb choices that lost them subs. That is out of players hands and you shouldn't sit there and blame us or talk all that smack while, at the same time, standing up for the shit shows we have now.
I asked for subs and you struggled. You posted a few. 2 of them don't even have subs. Then you added a list of games to give the illusion that there is some how this massive amount of MMORPGs out there with 250K subs. [mod edit]
Anyways, I think regardless of how good or bad Star Citizen is if majority open their wallets on it, at least we will send a message that we want more high budget AAA products coming to us. Keep in mind also Star Citizen is made exclusively for PC, which means it would be far more expensive to develop if it went multiplatform and chasing that console market that many of these AAA budget games do these days.
And there you have it. Another poster trying to lend meaning to the their support for a game that could very well never see the light of day.
So, what you're saying is that we should never donate to the cure for cancer if there's no guarentee it will eventually come?
Ok, I don't agree.
All mmo's are Cancer. EVE is the cure to that cancer;-D
Oh you mean Eve the game that forced its company in 2014 to report financial difficulties and let a bunch of people go, closed divisions, stopped working on games, the same company that in 2015 decided to go dark on their financials and the same game that is reported to be shedding subs? That game is the cure?
Oh oops I probably shouldn't have brought facts to your bias opinion comment.
At least you didn't take it too seriously, considering his smiley and all that.
So a smile means sarcasm on this site? Yeah guess I need to work on reading a persons sarcasm on an online forum...
Maybe you should also know when people give you an LOL its frequently not "with you".
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Crap games diminish in both player base and further development.
So, it's safe to say on average it takes 6 years for the consumer to say NO NO and NO and the producer will finally listen.
Your first statement is a perfect description of SWG.
No actually the facts are rather clear. Mmorpgs have never been better over a six year period then they have been while you have gone. So it's safe to say you are NOT the consumer developer want they have plenty of other consumers. No the developers have not been missing your $15/month and could care less what you have been saying...sorry just wanted to welcome you to the real world and provide actual facts.
Finally. I've been waiting for somebody that knows what they are talking about, to pop in.
Can you list all the western AAA MMORPGs with more than 250K active subs as of today?
Well nobody really gives sub numbers anymore and the sub only model is also kind of obsolete...but for fun I list you a few...
WoW FFXIV GW2 Eso swtor eve
some lesser populated games
lotro Rift Neverwinter Marvel DC TerA AoC
Then you also have games that aren't mmorpgs but are now becoming more popular.
So, WoW, FFXIV, and maybe EVE are the only MMORPGs that have better than 250K active subs. The rest are B2P/F2P.
Is that a fair guess on my part?
You missed L1 but otherwise you are pretty close.
But rather than point out what has long been released, the absence of anything big on the horizon outside of SC is the real proof (rather lack thereof) of the health of the genre.
This is where I disagree with you. Just because we don't know whats in the pipeline doesn't mean there isn't anything being made. MMOs are not single player games that need yearly editions or sequels. We had a surge of mmos from 2011-2014. Those games are still going well and making the developers money. There really isn't a need for a bunch of new mmos to come out every year. Come back in a few years. If there is absolutely nothing being made. I will agree with you. Unless of course you discount other regions of the world that are still making mmos today. In that case I can't help you.
So, WoW, FFXIV, and maybe EVE are the only MMORPGs that have better than 250K active subs. The rest are B2P/F2P.
Is that a fair guess on my part?
Again the sub only model is obsolete and nobody released sub numbers so for you to say those are the only three healthy mmos because they fall into your own criteria of what makes a healthy mmo is far from accurate.
Then how in Odin's Balls can you sit there and bash SWG? Insult old school gamers, calling them irrelevant and bitter? When you can't even name more than 5 MMORPGs that have done better with subs?
When your new so-called superior MMORPGs can't even hold a candle to those subs. In fact, the numbers are so shit, so embarrassing, that they don't eviien post them any more.
You come off as a pretentious, jerk when you sit here and bash old games and old players. The games you support are proven to be crap. They peak within the first few months after release, then die off because you guys already jumped ship for the next thing.
What is so wonderful about you and your new MMORPGs?
They dumbed them down and put quantity over quality. Are they saying that there are far more stupid, low-quality people? That's how I see it. So what does that make you, exactly?
That's what you are proud about so much that you will look down on others?
Those older games still had more subs than your current MMORPGs. So, maybe I missed it, but where are these better MMORPGs with 250K+ subs? You named 5 out of how many releases since WOW?
If you're going to sit here and insult some of us, at least know what the hell you're even talking about. Game companies don't care about what you think you know. The MAJORITY of MMORPGs would give their lefty to have 250K+ paying long-term subs.
Oh I see you get a little fussy when you are hit with facts. How can I bash SWG? Easy it's one of the only mmorpgs in the last 10 years that actually had to close. I wasn't aware you were Mr.Almighty and got to decide the threshold for what makes up a successful game.
No no little buddy clearly the Devs don't care what you and your bitter old vets think that is why nobody is making games that cater to you and why you guys are stuck being all miserable on sites like this.
Lets do a little math equation for you shall we.
In 2013 Swtor for example made $139,000,000 just on the cartel market.
Ok get ready let's start with your magic number of 250,000 subs...id love to see how you came up with this magic number btw.
250,000 X $14.99= $3,500,000
$3,500,000 X 12 = $45,000,000
139,000,000 \ 45,000,000 = 3.08
In case you are having issues with the math swtor in one year made just off the cartel market what it would take your old school mmorpgs THREE YEARS to make if they had 250,000 subs every month, which we all know never happened.
If you don't want to be called out for being left in the dust and being a bitter old get don't act like one. Clearly you are the one who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Welcome to 2016 pal I suggest you suck it up and find a new hobby.
It's [current year]!!!
And what are you doing with this math vomit? Because I said they make dumb down, low-quality games for a larger audience, [mod edit]
Yep, SWG closed. And SWTOR spent the most money to develop and the quickest AAA to go F2P. It had to resort to gimmicks because nobody wanted to sub. Total failure. Probably not what I would have chosen to be an example of how much better your era in gaming is than mine.
Hey, they made a lot of money off cash shop. Most F2P do; that's not what my question was even about.
All that money and hardly any one to play with. Maybe this petition to merge all servers into 1 West Coast and 1 East Coast will help. But, they are running out of servers to merge. How many merges has it been now, btw?
It is well known SWG at its peak had 300K subs. Just because YOU were not around back then doesn't change that fact. SOE, as usual, made very dumb choices that lost them subs. That is out of players hands and you shouldn't sit there and blame us or talk all that smack while, at the same time, standing up for the shit shows we have now.
I asked for subs and you struggled. You posted a few. 2 of them don't even have subs. Then you added a list of games to give the illusion that there is some how this massive amount of MMORPGs out there with 250K subs. [mod edit]
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. [mod edit]
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
Oh BTW the last old vet I destroyed ran away with high blood pressure I just want to make sure you are doing ok? I'm sure it's a lot to handle being hit by so many facts clearly you aren't used to them.
In your opinion, what have you done to push this genre forward and help it become something better, something more than what it's been in the past? Well, most know my story, which I'll add later on, but what about yours?
Other than spend money to support games I enjoy, nothing. Nada, zip, absolutely nothing at all. But then, I also have other priorities in my life.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I stopped paying for modern MMORPGs, so I guess I'll take some of the credit for helping to kill off the genre as we know it.
Perhaps something better will rise from the ashes.
This.
MMORPGs going mainstream has given us shallow single player games masquerading as a MMORPG infested by transient "give me shinies now" locusts.
The quicker they die off and go back to niche market the better the games will be.
Couldn't disagree more. More games does not equate to bad games. It means more shallow bad games are being made, but the good ones are still there. Just because you think they are "single player games" doesn't mean they are either. I actually can't stand forced grouping myself....just me though.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Anyways, I think regardless of how good or bad Star Citizen is if majority open their wallets on it, at least we will send a message that we want more high budget AAA products coming to us. Keep in mind also Star Citizen is made exclusively for PC, which means it would be far more expensive to develop if it went multiplatform and chasing that console market that many of these AAA budget games do these days.
And there you have it. Another poster trying to lend meaning to the their support for a game that could very well never see the light of day.
So, what you're saying is that we should never donate to the cure for cancer if there's no guarentee it will eventually come?
Ok, I don't agree.
All mmo's are Cancer. EVE is the cure to that cancer;-D
Oh you mean Eve the game that forced its company in 2014 to report financial difficulties and let a bunch of people go, closed divisions, stopped working on games, the same company that in 2015 decided to go dark on their financials and the same game that is reported to be shedding subs? That game is the cure?
Oh oops I probably shouldn't have brought facts to your bias opinion comment.
At least you didn't take it too seriously, considering his smiley and all that.
So a smile means sarcasm on this site? Yeah guess I need to work on reading a persons sarcasm on an online forum...
Maybe you should also know when people give you an LOL its frequently not "with you".
I "LOL'd" you...but it was with you
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Anyways, I think regardless of how good or bad Star Citizen is if majority open their wallets on it, at least we will send a message that we want more high budget AAA products coming to us. Keep in mind also Star Citizen is made exclusively for PC, which means it would be far more expensive to develop if it went multiplatform and chasing that console market that many of these AAA budget games do these days.
And there you have it. Another poster trying to lend meaning to the their support for a game that could very well never see the light of day.
So, what you're saying is that we should never donate to the cure for cancer if there's no guarentee it will eventually come?
Ok, I don't agree.
All mmo's are Cancer. EVE is the cure to that cancer;-D
Oh you mean Eve the game that forced its company in 2014 to report financial difficulties and let a bunch of people go, closed divisions, stopped working on games, the same company that in 2015 decided to go dark on their financials and the same game that is reported to be shedding subs? That game is the cure?
Oh oops I probably shouldn't have brought facts to your bias opinion comment.
At least you didn't take it too seriously, considering his smiley and all that.
So a smile means sarcasm on this site? Yeah guess I need to work on reading a persons sarcasm on an online forum...
Maybe you should also know when people give you an LOL its frequently not "with you".
Oh you did a poll with every user on this site or are you just sticking with that's what you think so everyone must think it even if the facts prove otherwise like is normally the case with you.
I have been using Cryengine for some time now and I spend an hour or two a day building a Far Cry Clone to get used to the Engine and become more knowledgeable with what it can do. (and what I can do) Building an MMO is beyond my skillset and I admire those that can work with the logistics involved with the networking and large scale scaling that an MMO requires. Once I get my single player game finished I will try my hand at multiplayer. Currently I am sitting at around 2 hours of gameplay, give or take. My focus is on emergent gameplay with attention to dynamic A.I. Far Cry 4 and the F.E.A.R. series are my models for that. It is incredibly hard and time consuming. Yet rewarding.
That's awesome man. I wish I had the talent to do that. I would love to see your game once you're ready to show it. You always have insightful information on most games/mmos. I imagine you will come up with some new ideas.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. See how ignorant and out of touch you and your arbitrary sub number is?
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I fear that besides beta testing some games and reporting a number of issues the only help I have given the genre is to get friends to play games I consider good and a bit different.
I think very few none devs have helped evolve the genre very much.
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. See how ignorant and out of touch you and your arbitrary sub number is?
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
How do you know only three on that list have had 250k subs at one point or today? Where are you getting your make believe information?
You use EQ as your benchmark I'll use WoW...I win again...all day buddy all day.
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. See how ignorant and out of touch you and your arbitrary sub number is?
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
You keep evading what he is saying. MMOs today don't rely on subs like they did when you were still young. Most mmos you'll see coming out only have an optional sub. Very few have an entrance requirement of $15 a month. It doesn't discredit the fact that newer mmos have massively more players than the old pre-wow era mmos. The fact is, you yourself claim you don't play any of these new "crap" mmos. So how in the world do you have any idea that these games are low pop? Oh thats right, you like to talk out your ass.
The devs/publishers of that era wish they could have even a fraction of the audience they have today. I'm sure you'll try to come up with some witty comeback. Problem is that you're not that clever.... even though you think you are.
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. See how ignorant and out of touch you and your arbitrary sub number is?
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
How do you know only three on that list have had 250k subs at one point? Where are you getting your make believe information?
You use EQ as your benchmark I'll use WoW...I win again...all day buddy all day.
You figured out that WOW has more than 250K subs? Winning! Target audience indeed.
Haha I didn't struggle I was very clear with facts about how the sub model is obsolete. Hey we can go around and around as I produce FACTS and you produce arbitrary numbers because you are an angry bitter vet that the genre has passed by. No it is not a fact SWG had 300k subs it's a story old bitter vets tell. The facts are it took two years for them to sell one million copies and soon after NGE hit and that was the end. Games like ESO and ffxiv sell a million copies at launch. But hey you keep spinning those numbers.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. See how ignorant and out of touch you and your arbitrary sub number is?
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
How do you know only three on that list have had 250k subs at one point? Where are you getting your make believe information?
You use EQ as your benchmark I'll use WoW...I win again...all day buddy all day.
You figured out that WOW has more than 250K subs? Winning! Target audience indeed.
Oh look at you! You didn't post made up information way to go buddy we are making progress with you.
How do you know only three on that list have had 250k subs at one point? Where are you getting your make believe information?
You use EQ as your benchmark I'll use WoW...I win again...all day buddy all day.
You figured out that WOW has more than 250K subs? Winning! Target audience indeed.
Oh look at you! You didn't post made up information way to go buddy we are making progress with you.
Who is we?
What have I made up?
I asked a simple question and you answered it. Why are you so mad? It's not your fault. I mean, I wouldn't boast about something that wasn't true like you did, but you can't control those numbers.
You claim that modern MMORPGs are better and that old school players are irrelevant.
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
Isn't that a bit irrelevant since Wow and Eve are the only larger MMOs with P2P today? Otherwise I can only think of a few small FFA full PvP games with the model and I wouldn't call them "modern".
If we are talking active players then you have: Wow, GW2, ESO, TOR and Eve.
But active players or subs doesn't really prove a game is "better" or "worse", those are all personal preferances. It is like judging the 10 best songs ever, you can make your personal list but it is not facts, just opinions.
I did enjoy some of the older games (especially M59 even though I had issues with my old modem at the time). I have enjoyed some other newer games since.
Oldschool did keep the same players longer in general but Wow is certainly an exception, a rather large percentage of the players have been playing it if not constantly then on and off since vanilla.
The top game I look forward to is Pantheon, oldschool. Right now I am playing GW2, modern.
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When your new so-called superior MMORPGs can't even hold a candle to those subs. In fact, the numbers are so shit, so embarrassing, that they don't even post them any more.
You come off as a pretentious, jerk when you sit here and bash old games and old players. The games you support are proven to be crap. They peak within the first few months after release, then die off because you guys already jumped ship for the next thing.
What is so wonderful about you and your new MMORPGs?
They dumbed them down and put quantity over quality. Are they saying that there are far more stupid, low-quality people? That's how I see it. So what does that make you, exactly?
That's what you are proud about so much that you will look down on others?
Those older games still had more subs than your current MMORPGs. So, maybe I missed it, but where are these better MMORPGs with 250K+ subs? You named 5 out of how many releases since WOW?
If you're going to sit here and insult some of us, at least know what the hell you're even talking about. Game companies don't care about what you think you know. The MAJORITY of MMORPGs would give their lefty to have 250K+ paying long-term subs.
MMORPGs going mainstream has given us shallow single player games masquerading as a MMORPG infested by transient "give me shinies now" locusts.
The quicker they die off and go back to niche market the better the games will be.
No no little buddy clearly the Devs don't care what you and your bitter old vets think that is why nobody is making games that cater to you and why you guys are stuck being all miserable on sites like this.
Lets do a little math equation for you shall we.
In 2013 Swtor for example made $139,000,000 just on the cartel market.
Ok get ready let's start with your magic number of 250,000 subs...id love to see how you came up with this magic number btw.
250,000 X $14.99= $3,500,000
$3,500,000 X 12 = $45,000,000
139,000,000 \ 45,000,000 = 3.08
In case you are having issues with the math swtor in one year made just off the cartel market what it would take your old school mmorpgs THREE YEARS to make if they had 250,000 subs every month, which we all know never happened.
If you don't want to be called out for being left in the dust and being a bitter old vet don't act like one. Clearly you are the one who doesn't have a clue what the hell he is talking about.
Welcome to 2016 pal I suggest you suck it up and find a new hobby.
If stating fact is looking down on others then so be it. You are bitter just read your little post, just because YOU think YOU get to determine what millions of people are playing is crap or not just proves how out of touch you are. It's not been proven these games are crap if they were crap they would have close like SWG but nope they are all still up, updating, and have players. Listen pal you speak for yourself you are a prime example of a bitter old vet again I know you don't like or can handle the facts but that's just too bad.
And what are you doing with this math vomit? Because I said they make dumb down, low-quality games for a larger audience, [mod edit]
Yep, SWG closed. And SWTOR spent the most money to develop and the quickest AAA to go F2P. It had to resort to gimmicks because nobody wanted to sub. Total failure. Probably not what I would have chosen to be an example of how much better your era in gaming is than mine.
Hey, they made a lot of money off cash shop. Most F2P do; that's not what my question was even about.
All that money and hardly any one to play with. Maybe this petition to merge all servers into 1 West Coast and 1 East Coast will help. But, they are running out of servers to merge. How many merges has it been now, btw?
It is well known SWG at its peak had 300K subs. EQ had 450K. Just because YOU were not around back then doesn't change that fact. SOE, as usual, made very dumb choices that lost them subs. That is out of players hands and you shouldn't sit there and blame us or talk all that smack while, at the same time, standing up for the shit shows we have now.
I asked for subs and you struggled. You posted a few. 2 of them don't even have subs. Then you added a list of games to give the illusion that there is some how this massive amount of MMORPGs out there with 250K subs.
[mod edit]
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Nobody cared.
The fun part is you feel they don't post sub numbers because it's an embarrassment well WoW has 5 million subs but old school vets like you think that game is crap. But if we use your logic WoW is the greatest mmorpg in the history of mankind. [mod edit]
Sorry buddy the illusions are coming from you here, I bring the facts. You keep living your life thinking that an arbitrary number you made up is the make it or break it for the success of video games. You keep living your life thinking millions of people who are currently playing mmorpgs and enjoying them don't know what they are talking about when they decide for themselves what they enjoy. You enjoy playing pvp on forums as the old bitter vet and the rest of us will continue to enjoy the great number of mmorpgs that are on the market right now while you watch another year pass you by.
Oh BTW the last old vet I destroyed ran away with high blood pressure I just want to make sure you are doing ok? I'm sure it's a lot to handle being hit by so many facts clearly you aren't used to them.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
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"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I asked for a list of western AAA MMORPGs that have at least 250K subs. You were only able to name 3.
I'm now glad I didn't use EQ subs as a benchmark.
I think very few none devs have helped evolve the genre very much.
You use EQ as your benchmark I'll use WoW...I win again...all day buddy all day.
The devs/publishers of that era wish they could have even a fraction of the audience they have today. I'm sure you'll try to come up with some witty comeback. Problem is that you're not that clever.... even though you think you are.
What have I made up?
I asked a simple question and you answered it. Why are you so mad? It's not your fault. I mean, I wouldn't boast about something that wasn't true like you did, but you can't control those numbers.
If we are talking active players then you have: Wow, GW2, ESO, TOR and Eve.
But active players or subs doesn't really prove a game is "better" or "worse", those are all personal preferances. It is like judging the 10 best songs ever, you can make your personal list but it is not facts, just opinions.
I did enjoy some of the older games (especially M59 even though I had issues with my old modem at the time). I have enjoyed some other newer games since.
Oldschool did keep the same players longer in general but Wow is certainly an exception, a rather large percentage of the players have been playing it if not constantly then on and off since vanilla.
The top game I look forward to is Pantheon, oldschool. Right now I am playing GW2, modern.