I look forward to it. I enjoyed the first stream but some of my excitement was tempered a bit by it as well.
My issue with MMOs out and coming out is there is not too much innovation going on in the space.
I would love to see the genre evolve and create brand new game mechanics never before seen.
None the less, I will be watching the stream.
This is my exact concern as well,not only lack of innovation but not much in creativity with old ideas either.
I look back over the last 20 years and all i have seen is TP points done by Square Enix,hotbars,sub class done by Square Enix,housing by SOE and voxels which seem to have not taken off all that great.Seems true triple A mmorpg gaming is yet a long way away,too many obstacles like budget and manpower and creative directors/investors.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I agree, if combat doesn't require a lot of movement, pressing rotations sucks. Glad rotations won't be a thing in Pantheon.
What are they doing to prevent that feeling? I get that animations will probably be expanded, skill sets will increase, etc... yet that only goes so far.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree, if combat doesn't require a lot of movement, pressing rotations sucks. Glad rotations won't be a thing in Pantheon.
What are they doing to prevent that feeling? I get that animations will probably be expanded, skills sets will increase, etc... yet that only goes so far.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
There will be action involved in the combat, but it will still be a traditional tab target system. Direct attacks will be dodged on dice rolls, but area effects will be the players job to recognize and avoid.
The reactive combat will come more in countering spells and abilities rather than just moving your character.
I gotta add, I laughed when I saw people actually having to /sit to recover. In the olden times just to do one quest you spent most of the time trying to recover health and eat snacks and camp, these days you just mow mobs down and move on to the next quest hub passing right over those memorable moments you had during and after the fight.
Reminds me of a time long ago in galaxy far away when I was hunting on Tatooine. I built a campfire on top of one of my group partners after he died. He didn't feel like wandering all the way back to us from the cloning center so he decided to call it a night and logged out leaving his body (LD) in the game world for 10min. We just pretended it was a funeral pyre. xD I remember just BS'n about whatever as we wandered Dathomir, stopping to build camps for buffs; ear shots away from a pack of Nightsisters on Rancor. Someone would agro something and it would be all over lol. You just don't have those moments in MMOs these days.
I agree, if combat doesn't require a lot of movement, pressing rotations sucks. Glad rotations won't be a thing in Pantheon.
What are they doing to prevent that feeling? I get that animations will probably be expanded, skills sets will increase, etc... yet that only goes so far.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
There will be action involved in the combat, but it will still be a traditional tab target system. Direct attacks will be dodged on dice rolls, but area effects will be the players job to recognize and avoid.
The reactive combat will come more in countering spells and abilities rather than just moving your character.
Just to be clear I was still speaking in terms of tab based combat, I was referring to dice roll advantages/penalties based on movement. Spell and ability countering can work. As well as things like damage/defense types, such as kinetic, elemental, stun/blunt, so on so forth.
Any word on dodge animations and things like that, which can help with the illusion of action?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree, if combat doesn't require a lot of movement, pressing rotations sucks. Glad rotations won't be a thing in Pantheon.
What are they doing to prevent that feeling? I get that animations will probably be expanded, skills sets will increase, etc... yet that only goes so far.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
There will be action involved in the combat, but it will still be a traditional tab target system. Direct attacks will be dodged on dice rolls, but area effects will be the players job to recognize and avoid.
The reactive combat will come more in countering spells and abilities rather than just moving your character.
Just to be clear I was still speaking in terms of tab based combat, I was referring to dice roll advantages/penalties based on movement. Spell and ability countering can work as well. As well as things like damage/defense types, such as kinetic, elemental, stun/blunt, so on so forth.
Any word on dodge animations and things like that, which can help with the illusion of action?
Ya, they said they are still working on class design and other combat mechanics before they get into replacing the placeholder assets and better animations and effects.
Personally I think dedicating more time to the visual aspect early is in their best interest as a crowdfunded game. This is a totally different animal than games developed in the past behind closed doors. People are visual creatures now more than ever and if the game looks professional people will be more inclined to look closer at the gameplay. Folks simply dismiss stuff at a glance now if it what they saw wasn't attractive.
I gotta add, I laughed when I saw people actually having to /sit to recover. In the olden times just to do one quest you spent most of the time trying to recover health and eat snacks and camp, these days you just mow mobs down and move on to the next quest hub passing right over those memorable moments you had during and after the fight.
Reminds me of a time long ago in galaxy far away when I was hunting on Tatooine. I built a campfire on top of one of my group partners after he died. He didn't feel like wandering all the way back to us from the cloning center so he decided to call it a night and logged out leaving his body (LD) in the game world for 10min. We just pretended it was a funeral pyre. xD I remember just BS'n about whatever as we wandered Dathomir, stopping to build camps for buffs; ear shots away from a pack of Nightsisters on Rancor. Someone would agro something and it would be all over lol. You just don't have those moments in MMOs these days.
The most memorable moment for me is telling my wife don't go over there and shoot the nest... then watching her come running back trailed by a dozen quenkers. Had her playing the EMu a few months back. She didn't stick around long, kept getting herself killed over and over.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This game isn't being made for the average gamer that is 16-30 something. This is being made for middle-aged gamers who find fighting bots that don't move challenging.
Because chasing mobs around pressing combinations of wasd is challenging.
With all else equal, hitting a moving target with skill-shot attacks is inherently harder than standing motionless, pressing tab, then 1, against a non-moving target.
Creating a *new* game with the latter example as the style of play suggests it is targeted to an audience that has trouble pressing more than two keys on their keyboard at the same time in a concerted manner.
This game isn't being made for the average gamer that is 16-30 something. This is being made for middle-aged gamers who find fighting bots that don't move challenging.
Because chasing mobs around pressing combinations of wasd is challenging.
If so many people wanted to play something like this, then remind me: why did Vanguard shut down?
I don't think anyone is trying to imply that this will be mass market. But for those looking for it, it is a nice alternative to current EQ.
AFAIK, Vanguard didn't need mass market to sustain itself on life support - which it was clearly on.
If this game can sustain itself with a similar audience, though, that's great. I wish it the best - but I have to say I'm sceptical.
To be fair there's a big difference between sustaining what SOE (or someone similar) view as acceptable profit, and what a small company needs to survive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
2 hours of static melee mobs that don't use special abilities so that players can utilize the most basic tank and spank strategy. I hope they can show more exciting combat encounters in future streams.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I agree, if combat doesn't require a lot of movement, pressing rotations sucks. Glad rotations won't be a thing in Pantheon.
What are they doing to prevent that feeling? I get that animations will probably be expanded, skill sets will increase, etc... yet that only goes so far.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
Frequent motion doesn't need to be part of the equation. There are the other 99% of MMORPGs for that. Ask Wildstar how thats worked out for them.
In EQ positioning was extremely important. Being in front of a mob as a melee often meant death via riposte, or a freaked out healer. You didn't have to reposition often in EQ, but you sure needed to think about it.
There is nothing wrong with a game that actually caters to the genre's RPG roots instead of tries to merge it with some other genre.
Comments
Like I would never show anyone this game if I wanted to show off how cool MMOs are...lol
But I kinda like it. Brings back memories of old school mmos.
I look back over the last 20 years and all i have seen is TP points done by Square Enix,hotbars,sub class done by Square Enix,housing by SOE and voxels which seem to have not taken off all that great.Seems true triple A mmorpg gaming is yet a long way away,too many obstacles like budget and manpower and creative directors/investors.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Incorporating some type of movement penalty, as well as bonus is ideal in this day and age, even when trying to present an old school feel. The locked in place whack-a-mole concept of fighting a health bar, really has seen it's day come and go.
That doesn't mean they need to go twitch based or anything. Just incorporate movement into hit/miss ratio. Which encourages movement to avoid crits and powerful strikes..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The reactive combat will come more in countering spells and abilities rather than just moving your character.
Reminds me of a time long ago in galaxy far away when I was hunting on Tatooine. I built a campfire on top of one of my group partners after he died. He didn't feel like wandering all the way back to us from the cloning center so he decided to call it a night and logged out leaving his body (LD) in the game world for 10min. We just pretended it was a funeral pyre. xD I remember just BS'n about whatever as we wandered Dathomir, stopping to build camps for buffs; ear shots away from a pack of Nightsisters on Rancor. Someone would agro something and it would be all over lol. You just don't have those moments in MMOs these days.
Any word on dodge animations and things like that, which can help with the illusion of action?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Personally I think dedicating more time to the visual aspect early is in their best interest as a crowdfunded game. This is a totally different animal than games developed in the past behind closed doors. People are visual creatures now more than ever and if the game looks professional people will be more inclined to look closer at the gameplay. Folks simply dismiss stuff at a glance now if it what they saw wasn't attractive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
With all else equal, hitting a moving target with skill-shot attacks is inherently harder than standing motionless, pressing tab, then 1, against a non-moving target.
Creating a *new* game with the latter example as the style of play suggests it is targeted to an audience that has trouble pressing more than two keys on their keyboard at the same time in a concerted manner.
and space bar!
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
If this game can sustain itself with a similar audience, though, that's great. I wish it the best - but I have to say I'm sceptical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In EQ positioning was extremely important. Being in front of a mob as a melee often meant death via riposte, or a freaked out healer. You didn't have to reposition often in EQ, but you sure needed to think about it.
There is nothing wrong with a game that actually caters to the genre's RPG roots instead of tries to merge it with some other genre.
EQ is still around today and doing better than a lot of the flashier games that have come since.