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Looking for a mmorpg that has unforgiving pvp. Is there one?

GoldsurgeGoldsurge Member UncommonPosts: 8
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM
Hi mmorpg.com folks!

I enjoy Black Desert and it's pvp in a way but since they took the death penalty away from pvp, i lost the thrill into it and with that I've been enjoying Desert less and less... So now I've been looking for MMORPG that would have some sort of penalty OR rewarding system for world pvp. Like in runescape you loose all your gear in PvP but I'm not into runescape for various reasons. Anyhow the system in Black Desert that you can attack everyone you desire that are lvl45+ is the best feature I've seen in mmorpgs for while as pvp player.

This game that Im looking for doesn't have to have total open world pvp like Black Desert, its enough that theres like couple contents for daily quests and people can go gank there. More important is that there's some sort of thrill like gaining or loosing something.

I dream that I would play some sort of assassin class and would go in stealth and run into someone who is innocently questing and then I could attack him. At the end the loosing player would loose something or the killer would gain something.

Games I've played and some notes:
- Black Desert Online (great open world pvp where are no factions and you can tag anyone)
- World of Warcraft (very smooth pvp, I give great credit for that)
- Aion (not going back for it ever)
- WildStar (liked that you could pvp in daily quest zones but in this game there were factions + you didn't really gain or loose anything in world pvp)
- Elder Scrolls Online (played a lot back in the day. Liked the 1st dlc where you could actually steal a lot of Tel'vars from other players by killing them or loose yours. Smooth PvP. Then the dlc died when more came out and theres really nothing more open world pvp + Cyrodil pvp feels boring)

I hope that theres a Black Desert stylish game where you could attack someone in anywhere in the world but more importantly I want the thrilling feeling that you have something to gain or loose. I want to believe theres a game out there that offers something like this that I just couldn't google out or find from Twitch. Most of all I find survival games with the words I used to find mmorpgs but they really lack the rpg aspects that I really want.

I appreciate all the suggestions!

- Goldsurge
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Comments

  • KilraneKilrane Member UncommonPosts: 322
    edited July 2016
    EVE Online has the best open world PvP in my opinion. If you love real open world PvP, you're doing your self a disservice if you haven't given EVE a fair shot. 

    I forgot to mention that it's a full loot PvP game. 
  • GoldsurgeGoldsurge Member UncommonPosts: 8
    edited July 2016
    @Kilrane Thanks for suggestion! It is full loot pvp game sure. I've actually tried it for 8hours. However it didn't catch on me. Start was clunky for me and then I got it but the game felt slow for me and I guess that I enjoy more about character vs character than ship vs ship combat. I can't point out anything bad about EVE but ship combat just didn't get me.

    Edit: And I honestly forgot EVE from my little list
  • SnowalkerSnowalker Member UncommonPosts: 15
    I think that what you re looking for its called Darkfall :)
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    https://darkfallnewdawn.com/

    New Dawn is the newest iteration of Darkfall being managed by a new company (Ub3rgames). They are in the process of overhauling the game and just launched their development server (which they refer to as InDev). Its basically a live beta server.

    Now is a good chance to try the game out for free, though in its current form its more like classic Darkfall than the version they intend to make.


  • KezBotKezBot Member UncommonPosts: 19
    Lol I think the description of your ideal scenario is a perfect summary of why the type of game you want will never get funded or developed. No PVE player is going to want to play this type of game. As soon as word gets out that PVE players are getting griefed there will be no more PVE players and the game will die.....
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    edited July 2016
    MMO's refused to adjust the risk vs reward factor so that players are more attracted to those kinds of games.  They still make it seem like it's a privilege getting ganked or visa-versa.  Yet if they want players to do other new content they increase rewards.

    "We do things that way because it's always been done that way..." - Developer
    Post edited by Octagon7711 on

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GoldsurgeGoldsurge Member UncommonPosts: 8
    edited July 2016
    @KezBot Maybe... maybe not. I don't think PvE players are keeping all mmorpgs alive alone. They are one player base for sure, even majority. For example EVE has been kicking well for many years. 

    I can still imagine that well polished PvP game like I described would lure in people that are interested into that kind of mmorpgs. I know for sure that Im not the only one that likes grief-kind of mmorpgs or whatever you call them. And like I sayed; there could be a reward system, not just punishing one.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Try This:  goo.gl/7GuOL3
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • GoldsurgeGoldsurge Member UncommonPosts: 8
    @Snowalker @Dullahan Thanks for suggestion. It looks a bit old/clunky for modern mmorpg from couple videos that I watched but Im going to give a try for New Dawn.

    @Nyctelios Thanks for multiple suggestions. I've been keeping a little eye on ArcheAge. What went wrong in that patch? Should I still give it a try? And newest Lineage which is still a bit old, could be worth to try out... i shall see in near future. And Albion looks like Runescape and I don't honestly enjoy that kind of combat. If the camera angle is from there, I want something like Path of Exile and Diablo-serie offers. Albion looks honestly a bit like modern mobile game... and if Im not totally wrong, theres going to be a mobile version in future for Albion. I just think I can have more action-packed or detailed mmorpg with good PC.

    @Octagon7711 Yeah I agree with you. I hope that Chronicles of Elyria can pull something unique. That game is just coming after so much time... late 2017 :s
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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Mortal Online might be the game you are looking for.

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,772
    edited July 2016
    As others have mentioned, there are two fun MMOs being developed that will have unforgiving PVP and they are both Darkfall.
  • BisloboBislobo Member UncommonPosts: 27
    Elder Scrolls Online has Imperial City back into action. But as other people said, for what you describe probably EVE or Darkfall. 
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Nyctelios said:
    @Goldsurge if you type on google "Arche Age patch 1.0 megathread" you'll find every piece of info you need (and sadly also find that ArcheAge you know today has nothing to do in terms of mechanics with the ArcheAge that ascended in KR mmo lists - it's a big thread tho, it goes through the change of the patch). Let's say AA before 1.0 is the game you are looking for.

    Albion is a Diablo-ish game. But if you want a good arpg PoE is the deal (online)... While offline, imo, Sacred (1 and 2) holds that title (Stay away from 3). My problem with Albion is the constant change in payment method and pushing founders pack to eternity.

    If you want a good looking game with PvP Blade and Soul can be a good start. It's unbalanced and there is a lot of exploiting, but you'll have some fun (if your connection is good). Because it's an action orientated mmorpg with combo mechanics (that includes knockdowns and throws).

    But as said, no game has Risk vs Reward set so high as EvE Online. Bots/isboxers can be frustrating if you play alone, though. 

    Now, if you want a hardcore pvp experience, unfair and salty, buy DarkSouls and let the invasions start.



    as far as i know, isbox etc is illegal to use on Eve Online, and can cause you to lose your account(s) its thought that it was that change to the game that caused it to go from 500k subs to something like 350k subs, that CCP was willing to sacrifice the botters for the sake of the game, is commendable imo.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited July 2016
    Phry said:
    as far as i know, isbox etc is illegal to use on Eve Online, and can cause you to lose your account(s) its thought that it was that change to the game that caused it to go from 500k subs to something like 350k subs, that CCP was willing to sacrifice the botters for the sake of the game, is commendable imo.
    The drop from 500k subs was simply caused by settling down china numbers after china re-launch. One has to remember that CCP started to mixing in china numbers only "recently".

    No need for obfuscated theorycrafting.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    holdenhamlet said:
    As others have mentioned, there are two fun MMOs being developed that will have unforgiving PVP and they are both Darkfall.
    And just as likely to suffer the same fate as those games tbh, the problem with unforgiving PVP, is that its an ultra niche genre to begin with, in Eve Online the game is split between 3 distinct areas, high sec, low sec, and null sec, thats not to say that PVP doesn't happen in High Sec, it just means that it has consequences, unless of course, its as part of a wardec, though those are easy to avoid just by dropping corp temporarily, as NPC corps can't be wardec'd.
    The problem with most PVP games is that they don't also cater to the PVE players, and as a result they tend to fail pretty hard, this has been demonstrated fairly consistently over the last decade or so of MMO's. The exception is pretty much Korea, which is why games like Lineage etc are successful there, and virtually nowhere else.
    BDO succeeded where many others failed simply because it caters fairly heavily towards the PVE playerbase, while still providing PVP players with content that isn't the PVE players, if anything the penalties for attacking PVE players are a good enough deterrent that PVP and PVE players can exist alongside each other.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Phry said:
    holdenhamlet said:
    As others have mentioned, there are two fun MMOs being developed that will have unforgiving PVP and they are both Darkfall.
    And just as likely to suffer the same fate as those games tbh, the problem with unforgiving PVP, is that its an ultra niche genre to begin with, in Eve Online the game is split between 3 distinct areas, high sec, low sec, and null sec, thats not to say that PVP doesn't happen in High Sec, it just means that it has consequences, unless of course, its as part of a wardec, though those are easy to avoid just by dropping corp temporarily, as NPC corps can't be wardec'd.
    The problem with most PVP games is that they don't also cater to the PVE players, and as a result they tend to fail pretty hard, this has been demonstrated fairly consistently over the last decade or so of MMO's. The exception is pretty much Korea, which is why games like Lineage etc are successful there, and virtually nowhere else.
    BDO succeeded where many others failed simply because it caters fairly heavily towards the PVE playerbase, while still providing PVP players with content that isn't the PVE players, if anything the penalties for attacking PVE players are a good enough deterrent that PVP and PVE players can exist alongside each other.
    These are actually some of the very things Ub3rgames is trying to address with Darkfall New Dawn to make it a little more appealing to the average player.


  • BigRamboBigRambo Member UncommonPosts: 191
    When it comes to unforgiving PvP, EVE-Online is the only option out there. And I'm not writing this because I'm a EVE fanboi, haven't played for 4 years now, because having played it for 8 years prior on a regular basis, no game even comes close to it, PvP wise.  Now the community and the Devs of EVE-Online on the other hand nowadays is a whole different issue for another thread.   ;)
  • EpicJohnsonEpicJohnson Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Play Darkfall or EVE   solo  do not join any clans or orgs.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Mortal Online
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    I think you would have liked Darkfall Unholy Wars, it was a bit clunky compared to the games you listed in the OP, but was a lot more stable and "modern" than the remake of the original Darkfall that you can try out now (Darkfall new dawn).

    Mortal Online could also be an option. Although I think most of the people playing Darkfall and Mortal Online will be wanting to do the same thing as you, so it might not pan out the way you hope. Not sure if those games have stealth abilities either.
    ....
  • GruugGruug Member RarePosts: 1,793
    There was a MMO a while back that had actual perma-death where you lose not only all your stuff but the character as well. I think it started out pretty good but everyone died but one guy and the servers had to shut down. ;)

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • GoldsurgeGoldsurge Member UncommonPosts: 8
    Thanks all! I got couple more games for my list to try out.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,483
    In A Tale in the Desert, other players can perma-ban you.  How's that for unforgiving?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    BDO,  other players can hack and steal all your loot without ever getting in trouble.
    GTA V  Hackers can shoot you with money and get your account banned.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
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