Reviews are never objective. There's always a big part of personal opinion in them.
My review differs from Holden's which differs from Kano's. That's normal, and that doesn't mean any of use has been dishonest when writing it.
Holden used the term dishonest. No one else did. I fully believe what Holden presented was true (According to his perspective) Whatever our definition of Objective is, for any review I put any stock in, I will need to see what good things the writer has to say, and what the writer thinks might be issues. A good review tells me why the reader thinks I should buy it and why he thinks I might not want to.
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
Now that's what I consider an honest and insightful review. Well done.
Honestly his review is just as opinionated as mine, or at least as based on personal experience.
Like I said, I disagree with almost all of his points. My experience has not been the same. I haven't gone through all of them because it's simply a matter of our experiences being different. But since you insist, here's a couple:
Daum support being terrible? I put in a ticket because I felt I was short one Valencia seal. I wasn't even totally sure if I had logged in 12 consecutive days but felt like I had. The next day they sent me an extra seal.
He talks often about his guild(s) being extremely unhappy. My guild constantly talks about how addicted to the game they are. Fun for me has gone up since 50, not down.
This is a guy that immediately started killing horses as soon as he was able to. That's fine and it's cool that the game supports evildoing, but his playstyle and guild he would fit into are different than mine.
There is no "I am in this for me" attitude in my guild. People are doing guild missions all the time. People, including me, spend hours prepping for node wars. There is more of a community feeling in my guild than any other guild I've ever been a part of in an MMORPG. It's true people can't give me gear but I don't need that to feel part of a community. People can and do give muliple food to the entire guild worth 50k silver each, meaning millions spent every node war.
BDO's endgame is all about the success of your guild, not you as an individual. There are many systems in place that promote just the opposite of the selfish attitude he claims the game necessitates.
I'm not saying his review was dishonest. I believe him when he says people are quitting from his guild. But does that mean I'm lying when I say people are very enthusiastic about the game in my guild?
I think it's telling that you find my review to be dishonest simply because I do not find many negatives about the game. It's almost like those are the only things you want to see...
Bottomline: this gospel that the game tanks after 50 is at least not universally true, although it's spoken like it is by DMKano. I'm having more fun at 54 than I did at 44, much more fun. I have guildies at 57 firmly addicted to the game and enjoying it.
Of course it's as opinionated. It's a review. That's what reviews are. Opinions. The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions. The good and bad and everything in between so that the readers can make an informed decision. He attempted to be objective. Yours is not, it's little more than free advertising for BDO. There is no objectivity, you make no mention of the game's flaws and shortcomings and made no attempt to hide that.
"The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions."
Uh, ok, if you say so. His experience has as many negatives as positives, and his review reflects that. Mine does not. My experience has been vastly more positive than negative and my review reflects that.
I'm supposed to mention negatives that I'm not experiencing in my review? I'm supposed to say that the game gets worse after 50 even though I think it gets better?
I find it interesting that more people are unable to see right through the ulterior motives of Kano's post. I've often given him credit for being a master manipulator of the gullible. Kano's method of operation has always been to balance a bit of good into his posts in an effort to increase the credibility of his negative posts. The few positive points in his points regarding the game's he intends to stealth troll are obvious positive points that all can agree on, and only serve to lead the reader to believe it is a fair and balanced post.
After mentioning those "few obvious positive points," he will then delve full throttle on an all out assault negatively criticizing points that are opinionated and subjective, and not really based on fact or reality at all. Note the few positive glossed over points made in his above post, when compared to the detailed and lengthy, albeit sugjective, negative points made in the above post. And then he ends it with the whammy ... which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
This gives the post a perceived air of fairness and balance that could not be further from the truth. The proof of the effectiveness of this practice is its end result in which all of the people who do not like a game that he comments on fully buy into his negative stealth post, while those who are positive about the game do not. Likewise, his method of operation works the same in those games that he attempting to praise (Ie., Archeage). While posting on Archeage, he often cited a few of the obvious negative aspects of the game, while going full on throttle about how great the game was.
This is not intended to criticize Kano. On the other hand, I am complimenting him. He knows what he is doing and kudos to him for being so effective. Psychology at its best.
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
Now that's what I consider an honest and insightful review. Well done.
Honestly his review is just as opinionated as mine, or at least as based on personal experience.
Like I said, I disagree with almost all of his points. My experience has not been the same. I haven't gone through all of them because it's simply a matter of our experiences being different. But since you insist, here's a couple:
Daum support being terrible? I put in a ticket because I felt I was short one Valencia seal. I wasn't even totally sure if I had logged in 12 consecutive days but felt like I had. The next day they sent me an extra seal.
He talks often about his guild(s) being extremely unhappy. My guild constantly talks about how addicted to the game they are. Fun for me has gone up since 50, not down.
This is a guy that immediately started killing horses as soon as he was able to. That's fine and it's cool that the game supports evildoing, but his playstyle and guild he would fit into are different than mine.
There is no "I am in this for me" attitude in my guild. People are doing guild missions all the time. People, including me, spend hours prepping for node wars. There is more of a community feeling in my guild than any other guild I've ever been a part of in an MMORPG. It's true people can't give me gear but I don't need that to feel part of a community. People can and do give muliple food to the entire guild worth 50k silver each, meaning millions spent every node war.
BDO's endgame is all about the success of your guild, not you as an individual. There are many systems in place that promote just the opposite of the selfish attitude he claims the game necessitates.
I'm not saying his review was dishonest. I believe him when he says people are quitting from his guild. But does that mean I'm lying when I say people are very enthusiastic about the game in my guild?
I think it's telling that you find my review to be dishonest simply because I do not find many negatives about the game. It's almost like those are the only things you want to see...
Bottomline: this gospel that the game tanks after 50 is at least not universally true, although it's spoken like it is by DMKano. I'm having more fun at 54 than I did at 44, much more fun. I have guildies at 57 firmly addicted to the game and enjoying it.
Of course it's as opinionated. It's a review. That's what reviews are. Opinions. The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions. The good and bad and everything in between so that the readers can make an informed decision. He attempted to be objective. Yours is not, it's little more than free advertising for BDO. There is no objectivity, you make no mention of the game's flaws and shortcomings and made no attempt to hide that.
"The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions."
Uh, ok, if you say so. His experience has as many negatives as positives, and his review reflects that. Mine does not. My experience has been vastly more positive than negative and my review reflects that.
I'm supposed to mention negatives that I'm not experiencing in my review? I'm supposed to say that the game gets worse after 50 even though I think it gets better?
I find it interesting that more people are unable to see right through the ulterior motives of Kano's post. I've often given him credit for being a master manipulator of the gullible. Kano's method of operation has always been to balance a bit of good into his posts in an effort to increase the credibility of his negative posts. The few positive points in his points regarding the game's he intends to stealth troll are obvious positive points that all can agree on, and only serve to lead the reader to believe it is a fair and balanced post.
After mentioning those "few obvious positive points," he will then delve full throttle on an all out assault negatively criticizing points that are opinionated and subjective, and not really based on fact or reality at all. Note the few positive glossed over points made in his above post, when compared to the detailed and lengthy, albeit sugjective, negative points made in the above post. And then he ends it with the whammy ... which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
This gives the post a perceived air of fairness and balance that could not be further from the truth. The proof of the effectiveness of this practice is its end result in which all of the people who do not like a game that he comments on fully buy into his negative stealth post, while those who are positive about the game do not. Likewise, his method of operation works the same in those games that he attempting to praise (Ie., Archeage). While posting on Archeage, he often cited a few of the obvious negative aspects of the game, while going full on throttle about how great the game was.
This is not intended to criticize Kano. On the other hand, I am complimenting him. He knows what he is doing and kudos to him for being so effective. Psychology at its best.
Make no mistake, I know DMKano's post history and his favoritism to Trion's games (even in this very review he got a comment about ArcheAge being better in). Biased? Sure, I can see that. That said, what in DMKano's post is inaccurate? Regardless of his agenda, his post contains a decent summary.
Make no mistake, I know DMKano's post history and his favoritism to Trion's games (even in this very review he got a comment about ArcheAge being better in). Biased? Sure, I can see that. That said, what in DMKano's post is inaccurate? Regardless of his agenda, his post contains a decent summary.
Areas where BDO excels:
- Character creation - it's pretty much best there is = Obvious Fact - Graphics are great = Obvious Fact - Action combat is very fun = Obvious Fact - Horse breeding - done very well = Obvious Fact - Auto-crafting/worker system is well thought out = Obvious Fact
Areas where BDO does well:
- 1-50 game is pretty fun = Obvious Fact - Non-combat systems - many of which are done well (at least at first) = Obvious Fact - Seamless world = Obvioys Fact - Node system and CP are done well = Obvious Fact - I am a big fan of authpathing in BDO = Subjective/Preference - Functional pets - I like this a lot - yes other games have done this years before but it's a good feature = Fact
Areas where BDO doesn't do so well:
- 51-55 level progression - it's pretty grind heavy = Subjective/only applicable depending of game play preference
- Naval system - it's currently really basic and leaves a lot to be desired (future content updates should address this), but right now boats feel slow and clunky = Subjective/depending on the player
- Boats cannot be repaired - why? = Because this is not Archeage and BDO's game play system dictates to build another
- No meaningful underwater content - like treasure diving, underwater combat etc.... = Not applicable to BDO (or at least not yet).
- Trade is pretty basic, trade packs are not worth the hassle longterm = Subjective/Depends on player
- No crafting or trade system come close to actual earning money via grinding - especially at 55+, why? = Subjective/There is no need for comparison/Do both
- Few contested grind spots - even with Valencia out - the best grind spots are still Sausans and Pirates, especially considering silver earning potential. = Only important to min/maxers
- PvP is far too restrictive - making the game which is an "open PvP game" feel like a 99.9% PvE game in reality - especially after the "no XP loss on death" nerf = only important to the PvP centric/A positive for PvE players
Gear disparity is a huge factor in PvP - if you are fighting a +20 player as a +15 - you are not going win period - no chance = True/Its a gear based MMORPG/A non factor to PvE centric players
- Pet breeding can be very cash shop heavy (expensive) = specific to pet breeders only and "expensive" is subjective
- To fully enjoy the game, certain cash shop purchases are a must (pets, underwear, glasses/earrings, Elion's tears are a must at 55+ when XP loss starts to suck big time) = False
- Server performance in key areas (like Node wars and Boss fights) - well frankly put it sucks = Varies from player to player and largely dependent on their home systems
- Daum's support is terrible = Varies depending on individual player experience
- Boss fight mechanics - especially for melee classes are pure cancer, due to horrible lag and server performance = BDO is a team based game/Team tactics override individual class gameplay/Join a guild and play with friends with ranged classes if you don't like how your melee class plays in Boss Fights / They are working on desync
- Extremely limited way of customizing your looks in game - $30 cash shop cosmetic outfits cost as much as the entire game = True
- Badly balanced classes due to how Daum decided to butcher US/EU patches - huge power shifts happen from patch to patch where super powerful classes become nerfed hard overnight. = Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch
- Extreme RNG (akin to ArcheAge at launch before RNG got reduced significantly) = Opinions on this are highly dependant on game play style/Such is BDO game play/Many do not consider this "falling short in a big way."
- No class specific "best in slot gear" - the same boss armor is the best end-game gear for every class - it's really crazy to think that everyone is after the *same* armor end game = Is this not fair for all classes? / If it was any other way people would complain about one class having more OP BiS gear than another class.
- Fun factor and extreme repetition nosedives after level 51+ for many players - almost all the players in the 2 guilds I've been in end up quitting soon after they get into early 50s (this is where the real grind starts to kick in) = Only specific to the PvP-centric, the min-maxer, and the grind haters/Not true for all and certainly not true for the PvE - centric
- Hacking problems after launch have gone unnoticed and the ill gotten gains were not rolled back for many players that were not blatant about it - which allowed them to be FAR AHEAD of the players who didn't cheat in both gear and XP progression = A perpetual norm for the vast majority of newly released games/Pains of being an early adopter/MMORPGs are always evolving/not as important to some as it is to others
- Inability to trade with your guild - creates a very "solo-centric" I am in this for me experience = Polls reflect the vast majority do not want trade and readily admit that the alternative is well worth not having trade. That being the case, how can this fall under "falls short in a big way?"
All in all - I would 100% recommend this game to most players as 1-50 experience is worth and even if you get several weeks of fun out of this - IMO totally worth the $30 entry fee.
So 1-50 is probably a good 8.5 out of 10 = True and all good so far
... but here comes the BIG BUUUTTTT...
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point. = Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees.
Lol, so you re all positive, I m all negative about BDO and yes I think it s the worst game I ve played in a long long long time. It s ok for you to say nothing but positive and I can t say negative.
I know you ll claim I just come and say 1 liners etc, nothing constructive, but I used to and it didn t matter to you and all the fanbois of BDO. I figured why bother with a big description, when I can get it across with less effort.
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
Now that's what I consider an honest and insightful review. Well done.
Honestly his review is just as opinionated as mine, or at least as based on personal experience.
Like I said, I disagree with almost all of his points. My experience has not been the same. I haven't gone through all of them because it's simply a matter of our experiences being different. But since you insist, here's a couple:
Daum support being terrible? I put in a ticket because I felt I was short one Valencia seal. I wasn't even totally sure if I had logged in 12 consecutive days but felt like I had. The next day they sent me an extra seal.
He talks often about his guild(s) being extremely unhappy. My guild constantly talks about how addicted to the game they are. Fun for me has gone up since 50, not down.
This is a guy that immediately started killing horses as soon as he was able to. That's fine and it's cool that the game supports evildoing, but his playstyle and guild he would fit into are different than mine.
There is no "I am in this for me" attitude in my guild. People are doing guild missions all the time. People, including me, spend hours prepping for node wars. There is more of a community feeling in my guild than any other guild I've ever been a part of in an MMORPG. It's true people can't give me gear but I don't need that to feel part of a community. People can and do give muliple food to the entire guild worth 50k silver each, meaning millions spent every node war.
BDO's endgame is all about the success of your guild, not you as an individual. There are many systems in place that promote just the opposite of the selfish attitude he claims the game necessitates.
I'm not saying his review was dishonest. I believe him when he says people are quitting from his guild. But does that mean I'm lying when I say people are very enthusiastic about the game in my guild?
I think it's telling that you find my review to be dishonest simply because I do not find many negatives about the game. It's almost like those are the only things you want to see...
Bottomline: this gospel that the game tanks after 50 is at least not universally true, although it's spoken like it is by DMKano. I'm having more fun at 54 than I did at 44, much more fun. I have guildies at 57 firmly addicted to the game and enjoying it.
Of course it's as opinionated. It's a review. That's what reviews are. Opinions. The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions. The good and bad and everything in between so that the readers can make an informed decision. He attempted to be objective. Yours is not, it's little more than free advertising for BDO. There is no objectivity, you make no mention of the game's flaws and shortcomings and made no attempt to hide that.
"The difference is that DMK tried to present a full range of opinions."
Uh, ok, if you say so. His experience has as many negatives as positives, and his review reflects that. Mine does not. My experience has been vastly more positive than negative and my review reflects that.
I'm supposed to mention negatives that I'm not experiencing in my review? I'm supposed to say that the game gets worse after 50 even though I think it gets better?
I find it interesting that more people are unable to see right through the ulterior motives of Kano's post. I've often given him credit for being a master manipulator of the gullible. Kano's method of operation has always been to balance a bit of good into his posts in an effort to increase the credibility of his negative posts. The few positive points in his points regarding the game's he intends to stealth troll are obvious positive points that all can agree on, and only serve to lead the reader to believe it is a fair and balanced post.
After mentioning those "few obvious positive points," he will then delve full throttle on an all out assault negatively criticizing points that are opinionated and subjective, and not really based on fact or reality at all. Note the few positive glossed over points made in his above post, when compared to the detailed and lengthy, albeit sugjective, negative points made in the above post. And then he ends it with the whammy ... which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
This gives the post a perceived air of fairness and balance that could not be further from the truth. The proof of the effectiveness of this practice is its end result in which all of the people who do not like a game that he comments on fully buy into his negative stealth post, while those who are positive about the game do not. Likewise, his method of operation works the same in those games that he attempting to praise (Ie., Archeage). While posting on Archeage, he often cited a few of the obvious negative aspects of the game, while going full on throttle about how great the game was.
This is not intended to criticize Kano. On the other hand, I am complimenting him. He knows what he is doing and kudos to him for being so effective. Psychology at its best.
Yes, DMKano is much better at sounding like an authority than me. Another thing he does well, at least lately, is not respond to criticism. But I think it's easier to do that if you don't really care that much about the game you're talking about. He definitely farmed up his fair share of "LOL"s defending Archeage back in the day.
Bottomline: I want people to at least consider the fact that the game may really be a 9.1/10 to me, and could be to other people as well. I did mention the negatives I find in the game (expensive outfits, Pop-in, desync, the hacking problem the game had), as well as potential negatives people not like me might find (no endgame dungeons- replaced with grind and gvg).
If you guys are looking for something approximating objectivity, you might want to check out the ratings for the game on this site. Based on 271 votes, the game gets an 8.6, the best of any released game, and has been at the top for a long time. Read some of the reviews included in the ratings and you'll find I'm really not alone when I think this game is the greatest MMORPG experience.
If you guys are looking for something approximating objectivity, you might want to check out the ratings for the game on this site. Based on 271 votes, the game gets an 8.6, the best of any released game, and has been at the top for a long time. Read some of the reviews included in the ratings and you'll find I'm really not alone when I think this game is the greatest MMORPG experience.
That is complete absurdity - even empty and/or P2W games widely reviled by the community at large manage to maintain ratings in the low-to-mid 7s on this website; whatever metric they are using to gauge community interest is deeply, deeply flawed.
Meta-critic has a user score of 70, which has dropped precipitously since the game launched. I expect it will continue to fall over time (it was thrown by a bevy of shameless 10s posted in early March - I wonder where those people are now?).
Make no mistake, I know DMKano's post history and his favoritism to Trion's games (even in this very review he got a comment about ArcheAge being better in). Biased? Sure, I can see that. That said, what in DMKano's post is inaccurate? Regardless of his agenda, his post contains a decent summary.
Areas where BDO excels: ... - Action combat is very fun = Obvious Fact
Subjective. Not only is it subjective, but I don't believe anyone who played even 3 other MMOs with action combat would consider BDO's action combat "very fun."
I agree on all points op. People crying about a $30 outfit when the game is $30, no sub....mkay. Especially a game that has this degree of complexity and thought in making it something much more than the linear themepark trash everyone has been bitching about for at least 8 years.
I agree that hardcore pvp maxers have legit complaints. But those crafter, character building, lifeskill and even pve combat people really don't have many significant legit complaints.
All the complaints on these forums show me that you all aren't that interested in much but linear quest themeparks. People talk a good game, but when something comes out that offers a bit of freedom, different from the norm, they start throwing a fit about expensive cosmetics and umm pop ins. People whine about gold sellers, problem solved. Well we dont like no trading. We want some non combat things to do...check. Too much grinding whaaa.
Assuming companies continue to make mmos (it's not looking good for the genre honestly), you will see a number of these life skill ideas copied.
Well, hate this game all you want. Going forward, this genre is filled with tiny kickstarter early access games that are about 20% done when they charge you for money. You get tired of the 20% game in a few days and never return. Have fun with that.
LOL. good for you, it sucks IMO after many months.
Be nice if you gave a bit more than the standard. it sucks. especially when contributing to a topic with a reasoned opinion. It elevates the conversation.
I would love to know your gaming history, OP. Because when you say greatest MMO experience ever, I immediately think of a few older games that have yet to be matched to this day and have all and more than you stated in your OP. FFXI and WoW mainly come to mind, especially the former. I'm glad you like the game, but I didn't last 2 days, it bored me to tears and it felt like I was playing another Archeage but with a different skin.
FFXI was my first MMO and I did love it. Spent a good year and a half playing it. I've played pretty much all of the major MMORPGs since then.
My review is subject to change of course (it's clearly labeled as a 1 month review). But BDO is shaping up to be really something special.
I love to hear about people loving a new game they are playing. Awesome to read positive posts about a game for a change. Cheers!
I love this game and try to play it everyday. I am always learning something new and I guess that keeps me playing. This game has changed my outlook on how to play an mmorpg. Most games are so quest driven and they feel very repetitive, but this game has so many options it can be mind boggling at first. While playing I literally try to get lost and almost every time I find something cool to do.
BDO, the game that could of been. The killer for me is gear appearance is locked behind a paywall...you dont level up and get awesome looking gear as a reward, you must open your wallet at lvl 1, pay $30 (as much as you payed for the actual game!) lvl 2, then you get to look different lvl 3. Who thought this was a good mechanic should be kicked out of the gaming industry. Lets create the most robust and awesome character creator with crazy customization options but, force the player to wear the same brown rag throughout the game. MMORPG quest for a good MMORPG continues.
playing: Dragon Age Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect Want to try: Fallen Earth
- Server performance in key areas (like Node wars and Boss fights) - well frankly put it sucks = Varies from player to player and largely dependent on their home systems
- Daum's support is terrible = Varies depending on individual player experience
- Boss fight mechanics - especially for melee classes are pure cancer, due to horrible lag and server performance = BDO is a team based game/Team tactics override individual class gameplay/Join a guild and play with friends with ranged classes if you don't like how your melee class plays in Boss Fights / They are working on desync
- Extremely limited way of customizing your looks in game - $30 cash shop cosmetic outfits cost as much as the entire game = True
- Badly balanced classes due to how Daum decided to butcher US/EU patches - huge power shifts happen from patch to patch where super powerful classes become nerfed hard overnight. = Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch
- Extreme RNG (akin to ArcheAge at launch before RNG got reduced significantly) = Opinions on this are highly dependant on game play style/Such is BDO game play/Many do not consider this "falling short in a big way."
- No class specific "best in slot gear" - the same boss armor is the best end-game gear for every class - it's really crazy to think that everyone is after the *same* armor end game = Is this not fair for all classes? / If it was any other way people would complain about one class having more OP BiS gear than another class.
- Fun factor and extreme repetition nosedives after level 51+ for many players - almost all the players in the 2 guilds I've been in end up quitting soon after they get into early 50s (this is where the real grind starts to kick in) = Only specific to the PvP-centric, the min-maxer, and the grind haters/Not true for all and certainly not true for the PvE - centric
- Hacking problems after launch have gone unnoticed and the ill gotten gains were not rolled back for many players that were not blatant about it - which allowed them to be FAR AHEAD of the players who didn't cheat in both gear and XP progression = A perpetual norm for the vast majority of newly released games/Pains of being an early adopter/MMORPGs are always evolving/not as important to some as it is to others
- Inability to trade with your guild - creates a very "solo-centric" I am in this for me experience = Polls reflect the vast majority do not want trade and readily admit that the alternative is well worth not having trade. That being the case, how can this fall under "falls short in a big way?"
All in all - I would 100% recommend this game to most players as 1-50 experience is worth and even if you get several weeks of fun out of this - IMO totally worth the $30 entry fee.
So 1-50 is probably a good 8.5 out of 10 = True and all good so far
... but here comes the BIG BUUUTTTT...
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point. = Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees.
If you are trying to critique his review - Character creation - it's pretty much best there is = Obvious Fact This isn't the way to do it. "Best there is" is neither obvious nor is it a fact..
And the post continues in the same fashion all the way through. Even your final statement..... "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees." What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?
There are other points where it appears you couldn't actually dispute what he said, so you presented an excuse as if it was OK, but regardless, his point was still true. when I see soemthing like.... "= Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch"
My 1st reaction to that is, "So you are confirming what he is saying then attempting to explain why his point is true."
Your agenda in your post is even more obvious than the person's you are criticizing. You can't, on one hand say "everyone's entitled to their opinion", and then in the other, try to pass of that subjective statement as factually incorrect, which is what this post does from top to bottom.
If you guys are looking for something approximating objectivity, you might want to check out the ratings for the game on this site. Based on 271 votes, the game gets an 8.6, the best of any released game, and has been at the top for a long time. Read some of the reviews included in the ratings and you'll find I'm really not alone when I think this game is the greatest MMORPG experience.
That is complete absurdity - even empty and/or P2W games widely reviled by the community at large manage to maintain ratings in the low-to-mid 7s on this website; whatever metric they are using to gauge community interest is deeply, deeply flawed.
Meta-critic has a user score of 70, which has dropped precipitously since the game launched. I expect it will continue to fall over time (it was thrown by a bevy of shameless 10s posted in early March - I wonder where those people are now?).
The metric they use is averaging out the users reviews, same as metacritic. The difference being one would expect the rating here to be pretty relevant since this is a site dedicated to MMORPGs.
The reason why the rating is potentially more objective than say my review, or DMKano's, or Deltois constant "LOL th s game sucks" comments, is each user can only submit their rating one time, and each rating is weighed equally.
So it's the most accurate source available if you want to know what the users of this site (a site dedicated to MMORPGs) feels about the game.
It turns out my rating of 9.1/10 is not really all that far off of the site's collective 8.6 rating.
"What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?"
It's inaccurate because at least one other person (me) thinks the game gets better post 50, not worse, meaning his blanket statement that the game nosedives after 50 is not objective.
Like I said, if we're going with the "it's his opinion" thing, then you should find nothing wrong with my 9.1 rating either. But you do.
His review can't be objective and based completely on opinion at the same time, and if it is, so is mine.
Er... Node wars ARE laggy. Certain nodes aren't. That's why some people think "oh look I have a good computer, people complaining must be on toasters." No, that's faulty logic.
BDO is a themepark MMO without actual rides, it's not a sandbox.
Sandbox features missing from BDO
- Housing (No really, the housing in BDO isn't real housing, it's instanced, it has no purpose except for you to afk in it, not like housing in actual sandbox games.
- Sandbox type gear ( The game has very grindy very long and hard to get THEME PARK style gear, however it has only a limited number of sets, about 7 now with the latest add on. So it's like trying to combine the worst aspects of both genres. Sandbox games have limited gear but it's easier to get and easier to lose. Theme park games have harder to get gear but it's harder to lose if not impossible, however they make you upgrade it often with a lot of sets of gear.
- Objectively meaningful open world - Missing entirely from BDO. You travel to different places to be able to do the rides in this half theme park half attempt at sandbox game. There is no real 'point' to the open world. You can't PvP someone for points, their gear, exp, or money. You can't build things in the open world, things that might require upkeep or attention to make sure they stay that way. (For instance ARK, Ultima Online, and everything in between.)
Edit: If I had to rate this game, I'd give it a TERA or ArcheAge. I don't do numbers, I do games. P.S. Neither game was very good, they both had good points but fell flat on their face in a lot of important areas, just like BDO.
For an this to be the best mmo experience you've had you must not have played Ultima Online, EverQuest, Starwars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, and many more. This game is average.
Do you want me to go into a long drawn out drivel of why the game sucks. Why would I when I can simply sum it up as it sucks. I ll give you a little more, it s the worst MMO I ve played in easily 10 years. Is that enough, are you happy now. I ll sleep better knowing it satisfies you Mgisbrtsn.
If you are trying to critique his review - Character creation - it's pretty much best there is = Obvious Fact This isn't the way to do it. "Best there is" is neither obvious nor is it a fact..
And the post continues in the same fashion all the way through. Even your final statement..... "Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees." What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?
There are other points where it appears you couldn't actually dispute what he said, so you presented an excuse as if it was OK, but regardless, his point was still true. when I see soemthing like.... "= Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch"
My 1st reaction to that is, "So you are confirming what he is saying then attempting to explain why his point is true."
Your agenda in your post is even more obvious than the person's you are criticizing. You can't, on one hand say "everyone's entitled to their opinion", and then in the other, try to pass of that subjective statement as factually incorrect, which is what this post does from top to bottom.
Way to miss the whole point of my post. My post was in response to the specific question in your post ...
"What in DMKano's post is inaccurate?"
... and my answer to your question is that the inaccuracy lies in the fact that all of those points where inaccurately placed under specific titles titled ...
"Areas BDO Doesn't Do So Well"
And
"Areas Where BDO Falls Short in A Big Way"
.... when all of those points were highly subjective and lacking in any kind of accuracy at all.
In regard to the rest of your post ...
"Best there is" may be neither obvious nor fact, but its a lot closer to "Obvious Fact" in the context in which it is written than the insignificant point that you are trying to make with your silly word play. The point being made is that he posted the point as a positive because it is something that most will agree with thereby giving the impression of fairness and balance in his critique, which was the entire point of my post.
Regarding ...
What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?
I am neither saying it is incorrect or that it should be higher or lower. I am simply saying that his opinion is subjective and therefor inaccurate. To assume that his 6.5 rating is accurate, would be to assert that Holden's 9/10 is inaccurate. Opinions are just that opinions. They are neither accurate nor inaccurate. Just an opinion. That's just common sense. Not very hard to comprehend.
Regarding ...
There are other points where it appears you couldn't actually dispute what he said, so you presented an excuse as if it was OK, but regardless, his point was still true. when I see soemthing like.... "= Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch" My 1st reaction to that is, "So you are confirming what he is saying then attempting to explain why his point is true."
There was no attempt to excuse or dispute. The statement simply does not accurately fall under the category of "Falling Short in A Big Way." It's exaggerated negative hyperbole. BDO is team based PvP game play revolving around node, siege, castle, and guild wars. The classes aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced for 1v1 PvP game play. The tweaking of classes is simply an ongoing process by Daum to make the team based game play more dynamic. The classes are still very playable and enjoyable by the vast majority of people playing the game. The only people this affects are the min/maxing 1v1 PvP-centric complainers. Its not nearly the crisis, or concern, to the vast majority of PvE and PvX-centric players as he makes it out to be. Most players do not even notice the difference.
Regarding ...
Your agenda in your post is even more obvious than the person's you are criticizing. You can't, on one hand say "everyone's entitled to their opinion", and then in the other, try to pass of that subjective statement as factually incorrect, which is what this post does from top to bottom.
I had no agenda. I merely made a point. And that was that he manipulates his post to give a false impression of impartiality and credibility by mentioning a few positives points before bringing down the hammer with a slew of negatives that are wholly subjective and opinionated, with the intent to slam the game, which is something Kano has been doing since Daum changed the game from his preferred PvP-centric ganking style of game play to the more PvE-centric game play of BDO today.
I would love to know your gaming history, OP. Because when you say greatest MMO experience ever, I immediately think of a few older games that have yet to be matched to this day and have all and more than you stated in your OP. FFXI and WoW mainly come to mind, especially the former. I'm glad you like the game, but I didn't last 2 days, it bored me to tears and it felt like I was playing another Archeage but with a different skin.
FFXI was my first MMO and I did love it. Spent a good year and a half playing it. I've played pretty much all of the major MMORPGs since then.
My review is subject to change of course (it's clearly labeled as a 1 month review). But BDO is shaping up to be really something special.
I love to hear about people loving a new game they are playing. Awesome to read positive posts about a game for a change. Cheers!
I love this game and try to play it everyday. I am always learning something new and I guess that keeps me playing. This game has changed my outlook on how to play an mmorpg. Most games are so quest driven and they feel very repetitive, but this game has so many options it can be mind boggling at first. While playing I literally try to get lost and almost every time I find something cool to do.
See that is what an MMORPG is supposed to do for a player. Not everyone who plays the game is going to get that feeling but the fact that you do and Holden does and many many others? Who cares about a rating, a score or if it is this game or another game. If a game ticks all of your personal taste boxes then ratings and other people's opinions be damned.
Well someone cared enough to type a gushing review looking for validation.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
lol i remember making a thread abt how great was BDO when i joined right in the begining.............and then GRIND slapped me in the face, RNG kicked me in the bollocks, DESYNC worked my arse out and Uninstall saved me !!!! Unbalanced classes, Eternal Grind, RNG(lol),and many many crap out of this game. This is not an MMO it is a cooking-horse taming-gathering-casino simulator.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom. (Death)” ― Terry Pratchett,
Comments
I find it interesting that more people are unable to see right through the ulterior motives of Kano's post. I've often given him credit for being a master manipulator of the gullible. Kano's method of operation has always been to balance a bit of good into his posts in an effort to increase the credibility of his negative posts. The few positive points in his points regarding the game's he intends to stealth troll are obvious positive points that all can agree on, and only serve to lead the reader to believe it is a fair and balanced post.
After mentioning those "few obvious positive points," he will then delve full throttle on an all out assault negatively criticizing points that are opinionated and subjective, and not really based on fact or reality at all. Note the few positive glossed over points made in his above post, when compared to the detailed and lengthy, albeit sugjective, negative points made in the above post. And then he ends it with the whammy ... which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point.
This gives the post a perceived air of fairness and balance that could not be further from the truth. The proof of the effectiveness of this practice is its end result in which all of the people who do not like a game that he comments on fully buy into his negative stealth post, while those who are positive about the game do not. Likewise, his method of operation works the same in those games that he attempting to praise (Ie., Archeage). While posting on Archeage, he often cited a few of the obvious negative aspects of the game, while going full on throttle about how great the game was.
This is not intended to criticize Kano. On the other hand, I am complimenting him. He knows what he is doing and kudos to him for being so effective. Psychology at its best.
- Character creation - it's pretty much best there is = Obvious Fact
- Graphics are great = Obvious Fact
- Action combat is very fun = Obvious Fact
- Horse breeding - done very well = Obvious Fact
- Auto-crafting/worker system is well thought out = Obvious Fact
Areas where BDO does well:
- 1-50 game is pretty fun = Obvious Fact
- Non-combat systems - many of which are done well (at least at first) = Obvious Fact
- Seamless world = Obvioys Fact
- Node system and CP are done well = Obvious Fact
- I am a big fan of authpathing in BDO = Subjective/Preference
- Functional pets - I like this a lot - yes other games have done this years before but it's a good feature = Fact
Areas where BDO doesn't do so well:
- 51-55 level progression - it's pretty grind heavy = Subjective/only applicable depending of game play preference
- Naval system - it's currently really basic and leaves a lot to be desired (future content updates should address this), but right now boats feel slow and clunky = Subjective/depending on the player
- Boats cannot be repaired - why? = Because this is not Archeage and BDO's game play system dictates to build another
- No meaningful underwater content - like treasure diving, underwater combat etc.... = Not applicable to BDO (or at least not yet).
- Trade is pretty basic, trade packs are not worth the hassle longterm = Subjective/Depends on player
- No crafting or trade system come close to actual earning money via grinding - especially at 55+, why? = Subjective/There is no need for comparison/Do both
- Few contested grind spots - even with Valencia out - the best grind spots are still Sausans and Pirates, especially considering silver earning potential. = Only important to min/maxers
- PvP is far too restrictive - making the game which is an "open PvP game" feel like a 99.9% PvE game in reality - especially after the "no XP loss on death" nerf = only important to the PvP centric/A positive for PvE players
Gear disparity is a huge factor in PvP - if you are fighting a +20 player as a +15 - you are not going win period - no chance = True/Its a gear based MMORPG/A non factor to PvE centric players
- Pet breeding can be very cash shop heavy (expensive) = specific to pet breeders only and "expensive" is subjective
- To fully enjoy the game, certain cash shop purchases are a must (pets, underwear, glasses/earrings, Elion's tears are a must at 55+ when XP loss starts to suck big time) = False
Areas where BDO falls short in a big way:
- Server performance in key areas (like Node wars and Boss fights) - well frankly put it sucks = Varies from player to player and largely dependent on their home systems
- Daum's support is terrible = Varies depending on individual player experience
- Boss fight mechanics - especially for melee classes are pure cancer, due to horrible lag and server performance = BDO is a team based game/Team tactics override individual class gameplay/Join a guild and play with friends with ranged classes if you don't like how your melee class plays in Boss Fights / They are working on desync
- Extremely limited way of customizing your looks in game - $30 cash shop cosmetic outfits cost as much as the entire game = True
- Badly balanced classes due to how Daum decided to butcher US/EU patches - huge power shifts happen from patch to patch where super powerful classes become nerfed hard overnight. = Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch
- Extreme RNG (akin to ArcheAge at launch before RNG got reduced significantly) = Opinions on this are highly dependant on game play style/Such is BDO game play/Many do not consider this "falling short in a big way."
- No class specific "best in slot gear" - the same boss armor is the best end-game gear for every class - it's really crazy to think that everyone is after the *same* armor end game = Is this not fair for all classes? / If it was any other way people would complain about one class having more OP BiS gear than another class.
- Fun factor and extreme repetition nosedives after level 51+ for many players - almost all the players in the 2 guilds I've been in end up quitting soon after they get into early 50s (this is where the real grind starts to kick in) = Only specific to the PvP-centric, the min-maxer, and the grind haters/Not true for all and certainly not true for the PvE - centric
- Hacking problems after launch have gone unnoticed and the ill gotten gains were not rolled back for many players that were not blatant about it - which allowed them to be FAR AHEAD of the players who didn't cheat in both gear and XP progression = A perpetual norm for the vast majority of newly released games/Pains of being an early adopter/MMORPGs are always evolving/not as important to some as it is to others
- Inability to trade with your guild - creates a very "solo-centric" I am in this for me experience = Polls reflect the vast majority do not want trade and readily admit that the alternative is well worth not having trade. That being the case, how can this fall under "falls short in a big way?"
All in all - I would 100% recommend this game to most players as 1-50 experience is worth and even if you get several weeks of fun out of this - IMO totally worth the $30 entry fee.
So 1-50 is probably a good 8.5 out of 10 = True and all good so far
... but here comes the BIG BUUUTTTT...
But end game (especially in EU/US Daum version) nosedives pretty quick - this is where the game feels like a 6.5 out of 10 - which is self evident in how many people quit when they reach this point. = Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees.
Lol, so you re all positive, I m all negative about BDO and yes I think it s the worst game I ve played in a long long long time. It s ok for you to say nothing but positive and I can t say negative.
I know you ll claim I just come and say 1 liners etc, nothing constructive, but I used to and it didn t matter to you and all the fanbois of BDO. I figured why bother with a big description, when I can get it across with less effort.
Bottomline: I want people to at least consider the fact that the game may really be a 9.1/10 to me, and could be to other people as well. I did mention the negatives I find in the game (expensive outfits, Pop-in, desync, the hacking problem the game had), as well as potential negatives people not like me might find (no endgame dungeons- replaced with grind and gvg).
Meta-critic has a user score of 70, which has dropped precipitously since the game launched. I expect it will continue to fall over time (it was thrown by a bevy of shameless 10s posted in early March - I wonder where those people are now?).
In my opinion, it was bad beyond parallel.
Then do some research on the cash shop.
Then make up your own mind.
I'm not giving this company money based on it's monetization.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Or have I been doing it wrong all these years...
I agree that hardcore pvp maxers have legit complaints. But those crafter, character building, lifeskill and even pve combat people really don't have many significant legit complaints.
All the complaints on these forums show me that you all aren't that interested in much but linear quest themeparks. People talk a good game, but when something comes out that offers a bit of freedom, different from the norm, they start throwing a fit about expensive cosmetics and umm pop ins. People whine about gold sellers, problem solved. Well we dont like no trading. We want some non combat things to do...check. Too much grinding whaaa.
Assuming companies continue to make mmos (it's not looking good for the genre honestly), you will see a number of these life skill ideas copied.
Well, hate this game all you want. Going forward, this genre is filled with tiny kickstarter early access games that are about 20% done when they charge you for money. You get tired of the 20% game in a few days and never return. Have fun with that.
I self identify as a monkey.
playing: Dragon Age
Waiting: for FF14, Mass Effect
Want to try: Fallen Earth
OMG you re using the ratings system from this site. You just fucked any chance you had at credibility.
Dullahan you re right big time. The combat in this game is one of the worst I ve ever seen.
- Character creation - it's pretty much best there is = Obvious Fact
This isn't the way to do it.
"Best there is" is neither obvious nor is it a fact..
And the post continues in the same fashion all the way through. Even your final statement.....
"Everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is NOT ACCURATE as it is obvious that not everyone agrees."
What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?
There are other points where it appears you couldn't actually dispute what he said, so you presented an excuse as if it was OK, but regardless, his point was still true. when I see soemthing like....
"= Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch"
My 1st reaction to that is, "So you are confirming what he is saying then attempting to explain why his point is true."
Your agenda in your post is even more obvious than the person's you are criticizing. You can't, on one hand say "everyone's entitled to their opinion", and then in the other, try to pass of that subjective statement as factually incorrect, which is what this post does from top to bottom.
The reason why the rating is potentially more objective than say my review, or DMKano's, or Deltois constant "LOL th s game sucks" comments, is each user can only submit their rating one time, and each rating is weighed equally.
So it's the most accurate source available if you want to know what the users of this site (a site dedicated to MMORPGs) feels about the game.
It turns out my rating of 9.1/10 is not really all that far off of the site's collective 8.6 rating.
"What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?"
It's inaccurate because at least one other person (me) thinks the game gets better post 50, not worse, meaning his blanket statement that the game nosedives after 50 is not objective.
Like I said, if we're going with the "it's his opinion" thing, then you should find nothing wrong with my 9.1 rating either. But you do.
His review can't be objective and based completely on opinion at the same time, and if it is, so is mine.
BDO is a themepark MMO without actual rides, it's not a sandbox.
Sandbox features missing from BDO
- Housing (No really, the housing in BDO isn't real housing, it's instanced, it has no purpose except for you to afk in it, not like housing in actual sandbox games.
- Sandbox type gear ( The game has very grindy very long and hard to get THEME PARK style gear, however it has only a limited number of sets, about 7 now with the latest add on. So it's like trying to combine the worst aspects of both genres. Sandbox games have limited gear but it's easier to get and easier to lose. Theme park games have harder to get gear but it's harder to lose if not impossible, however they make you upgrade it often with a lot of sets of gear.
- Objectively meaningful open world - Missing entirely from BDO. You travel to different places to be able to do the rides in this half theme park half attempt at sandbox game. There is no real 'point' to the open world. You can't PvP someone for points, their gear, exp, or money. You can't build things in the open world, things that might require upkeep or attention to make sure they stay that way. (For instance ARK, Ultima Online, and everything in between.)
Edit: If I had to rate this game, I'd give it a TERA or ArcheAge. I don't do numbers, I do games. P.S. Neither game was very good, they both had good points but fell flat on their face in a lot of important areas, just like BDO.
For an this to be the best mmo experience you've had you must not have played Ultima Online, EverQuest, Starwars Galaxies, Dark Age of Camelot, and many more. This game is average.
Way to miss the whole point of my post. My post was in response to the specific question in your post ...
"What in DMKano's post is inaccurate?"
... and my answer to your question is that the inaccuracy lies in the fact that all of those points where inaccurately placed under specific titles titled ...
"Areas BDO Doesn't Do So Well"
And
"Areas Where BDO Falls Short in A Big Way"
.... when all of those points were highly subjective and lacking in any kind of accuracy at all.
In regard to the rest of your post ...
"Best there is" may be neither obvious nor fact, but its a lot closer to "Obvious Fact" in the context in which it is written than the insignificant point that you are trying to make with your silly word play. The point being made is that he posted the point as a positive because it is something that most will agree with thereby giving the impression of fairness and balance in his critique, which was the entire point of my post.
Regarding ...
What are you saying here? 6.5 is his opinion but he's incorrect? Why? Should it be higher? And that's why it's inaccurate?
I am neither saying it is incorrect or that it should be higher or lower. I am simply saying that his opinion is subjective and therefor inaccurate. To assume that his 6.5 rating is accurate, would be to assert that Holden's 9/10 is inaccurate. Opinions are just that opinions. They are neither accurate nor inaccurate. Just an opinion. That's just common sense. Not very hard to comprehend.
Regarding ...
There are other points where it appears you couldn't actually dispute what he said, so you presented an excuse as if it was OK, but regardless, his point was still true. when I see soemthing like....
"= Newly released in NA/EU/Balance is a painful ongoing process with every patch"
My 1st reaction to that is, "So you are confirming what he is saying then attempting to explain why his point is true."
There was no attempt to excuse or dispute. The statement simply does not accurately fall under the category of "Falling Short in A Big Way." It's exaggerated negative hyperbole. BDO is team based PvP game play revolving around node, siege, castle, and guild wars. The classes aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced for 1v1 PvP game play. The tweaking of classes is simply an ongoing process by Daum to make the team based game play more dynamic. The classes are still very playable and enjoyable by the vast majority of people playing the game. The only people this affects are the min/maxing 1v1 PvP-centric complainers. Its not nearly the crisis, or concern, to the vast majority of PvE and PvX-centric players as he makes it out to be. Most players do not even notice the difference.
Regarding ...
Your agenda in your post is even more obvious than the person's you are criticizing. You can't, on one hand say "everyone's entitled to their opinion", and then in the other, try to pass of that subjective statement as factually incorrect, which is what this post does from top to bottom.
I had no agenda. I merely made a point. And that was that he manipulates his post to give a false impression of impartiality and credibility by mentioning a few positives points before bringing down the hammer with a slew of negatives that are wholly subjective and opinionated, with the intent to slam the game, which is something Kano has been doing since Daum changed the game from his preferred PvP-centric ganking style of game play to the more PvE-centric game play of BDO today.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Unbalanced classes, Eternal Grind, RNG(lol),and many many crap out of this game.
This is not an MMO it is a cooking-horse taming-gathering-casino simulator.
― Terry Pratchett,