Charge Back and Refunds

mr1602 · July 2016

Erillion said:

mr1602 said:

Think IGN is the only gaming site that didn't report the '$3000 refund' story.

You do not know many gaming sites, obviously.

Have fun

Think the big ones all ran the story except IGN; Gamespot, eurogamer, rockpapershotgun, Kotaku.
Do I know all the sites that are manned by one person from his house? I will happily admit I know some but not all.

mr1602 · July 2016

I am still confused why DSmart narrative is coming into this. He even wrote that he had nothing to do with the $3000 refund. Like I said before, accusing DSmart of being 'bad' or his games being 'bad' doesn't change what CIG is doing. Feels like deflecting the point.
Which doesn't really work when this CIG $3000 refund story was on the number 1 Facebook's trending topic.

mr1602 · July 2016

GrumpyHobbit said:

A backer who, after 3 YEARS, still hasn't got a clue what is going on and pulls his money from a project...yeah I have no problem calling them a moron.

If a customer disagrees with the new ToS, they can ask for a refund.

MaxBacon · July 2016

Herase said:
The cycle continues,

A story pops up,

Everyone goes crazy,

Few weeks later no cares (expected those committed to the "cause")/nothing happens

??????

Another story pops up several months later.

I'm still waiting on the one that was meant to reveal everything in 4 weeks and bring CIG down, which was mentioned 2 -3 months ago.

Yup it's a loop and it will continue. Some have to desperatly continue the hate campaign, it can't stop. Meanwhile, the game keeps moving forward for the frustration of the individuals that are not seeing their claims and wishes full-filled that is generally the failure of the project (cough... 90 days and stuffs... cough.... 4 weeks and stuffs... cough).

Nothing but noise, more noise, scream all day long the same thing. Like those persons on the street with billboards announcing the apocalypse.

Oriphus · July 2016

If the game was going to be drastically different than the original pitch I could perhaps understand, you know, if they were now suddenly making a pony racing game or something. However the game is going along the lines of what I have always heard with a few extra neat features, the only people who have anything to moan about is the very small amount of extremely early adopters who thought they were going to get a much worse version of the game.

GrumpyHobbit · July 2016

Oriphus said:

If the game was going to be drastically different than the original pitch I could perhaps understand, you know, if they were now suddenly making a pony racing game or something. However the game is going along the lines of what I have always heard with a few extra neat features, the only people who have anything to moan about is the very small amount of extremely early adopters who thought they were going to get a much worse version of the game.

That is what you get when people think spending a few pounds on something suddenly makes them an expert.

Sorry it took you over 3 years to realise that an average MMO takes anywhere between 3-7 years on average and SC is a rather ambitious project so the far end is most likely....waht...you didn't realise it and now 3 years in want to get your money back...Sorry, stupidity or ignorance should NOT be covered by the law.

rpmcmurphy · July 2016

Oriphus said:

... the only people who have anything to moan about is the very small amount of extremely early adopters who thought they were going to get a much worse version of the game.

I disagree with this. What about people who decided to back last year because of the imminent release of Star Marine. They've found out a number of months later that what was advertised is not what they're getting.
They have every right to a refund.

dsmart · July 2016

SpottyGekko said:

dsmart said:

I wrote a blog outlining the facts surrounding this issue because a LOT of people were just making stuff up.

http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/07/star-citizen-the-refund-debacle/

So you decided you didn't want to be left out, so you also "made some stuff up" and put it in a blog ?

"left out" clearly you haven't been paying attention. my blog comment post was were the whole Streetroller story began after he posted it on SA. once PC Invasion carried it, it went wide. my blog (which I only wrote because of all the misinformation being spread about the involvement of Goons and myself) went live before most of the articles

do try to keep up.

dsmart · July 2016

mr1602 said:

Think IGN is the only gaming site that didn't report the '$3000 refund' story.

Yeah. I have a running list as well. Even Yahoo! Tech wrote about it.

http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/07/star-citizen-the-refund-debacle/comment-page-1/#comment-3505

dsmart · July 2016

mr1602 said:

Erillion said:

mr1602 said:

Think IGN is the only gaming site that didn't report the '$3000 refund' story.

You do not know many gaming sites, obviously.

Have fun

Think the big ones all ran the story except IGN; Gamespot, eurogamer, rockpapershotgun, Kotaku.
Do I know all the sites that are manned by one person from his house? I will happily admit I know some but not all.

They all eventually did, except for IGN it looks like.

dsmart · July 2016

GrumpyHobbit said:

Yeah that for me is the biggest problem.

Hundreds of Thousands of backers all happy with development are now having to prepare for a situation where certain backers are purposefully withdrawing their funds in the hopes it will cause the game to fail.

3 years down the line asking for refunds. Go ahead, publicly reveal who you are and let the world know you are a fucking moron who has more money then sense and no clue how game development works or how to be a reasonable investor.

Then you have DS who is a bitter, jealous game developer. He is doing this because at every turn he has been shown to be a 2nd rate, inferior game designer and to top all that spend his life trying to bring a successful games developer down while displaying a total lack of morals in the process. His game has been in development LONGER then SC, his game is BEHIND in terms of progress, his game is UNPOPULAR by far and he offers NO refund whatsoever, his game was WITHDRAWN from steam...and instead if fixing his shit he crusades to bring down CR and SC...because he is a petty, insignificant, vile individual who would rather destroy someone elses career rather then try and do better at his own.

I hope people investigate HIS game for irregularities and try and get a refund from him and see what happens.

Nice try.

1) personal attacks aren't going to make SC any better. It's never coming out. Deal with it

2) LOD is just fine; has all the tech that SC is *trying* to build, working just fine

3) LOD It was never - ever - pulled on Steam, but since you guys LIE about EVERYTHING to suit your narrative, the joke's on you. The game is right there on Steam but now in closed BETA. We even released a new build yesterday. Announcement: right there on Steam:

4) Comparing LOD, an indie title, to a $117 million train-wreck is always hilarious to me. I'm not even flattered by the comparison because SC is shite - and toxic.

5) I am sure that every dev - especially indies - who have three decades and over a dozen games across multiple platforms - would love to be a "2nd rate, inferior game designer" as you say. nice try.

You should go outside. Your shitty little game is never - ever - coming out. Whatever amount you put into it, you should have donated to charity. And nothing you do - or say - is going to change that. Raging on the Internet isn't going to change that either. DEAL WITH IT.

dsmart · July 2016

GrumpyHobbit said:

Oriphus said:

If the game was going to be drastically different than the original pitch I could perhaps understand, you know, if they were now suddenly making a pony racing game or something. However the game is going along the lines of what I have always heard with a few extra neat features, the only people who have anything to moan about is the very small amount of extremely early adopters who thought they were going to get a much worse version of the game.

That is what you get when people think spending a few pounds on something suddenly makes them an expert.

Sorry it took you over 3 years to realise that an average MMO takes anywhere between 3-7 years on average and SC is a rather ambitious project so the far end is most likely....waht...you didn't realise it and now 3 years in want to get your money back...Sorry, stupidity or ignorance should NOT be covered by the law.

NOBODY CARES! That's NOT the game backers were pitched. They were pitched a DIFFERENT game, to be delivered on|before Nov 2014 **AND** they had an extra 12 (then 18) months to account for delays.

The fact that you THINK they didn't KNOW how long it would take them to build a game - which was completely out-scoped by year two, means that you ack they LIED to backers. That's on you - and them. WE DON'T CARE ABOUT NUANCES OR SEMANTICS.

MaxBacon · July 2016

Next: Full CAPS Posts. Stay tuned for the next episode of... whatever this is.

dsmart · July 2016

btw, a long time SC fan wrote a blog yesterday. You should all read it.

http://www.kristoffer.com/?p=6632

Oriphus · July 2016

rpmcmurphy said:

Oriphus said:

... the only people who have anything to moan about is the very small amount of extremely early adopters who thought they were going to get a much worse version of the game.

I disagree with this. What about people who decided to back last year because of the imminent release of Star Marine. They've found out a number of months later that what was advertised is not what they're getting.
They have every right to a refund.

2 things

1. You can't pledge for the game Star Marine, you can only pledge for the development of Star Citizen and all of what that development entails.

2. " They've found out a number of months later that what was advertised is not what they're getting." Star Marine is only delayed in development not scrapped, so yes they still will be getting it. However, that is only for the automated version, if you wanted you could organise your own game version of Star Marine in the PU.

Not that I think many people would seriously not want SC if it never had a Star Marine.

GrumpyHobbit · July 2016

dsmart said:

Nice try.

1) personal attacks aren't going to make SC any better. It's never coming out. Deal with it

2) LOD is just fine; has all the tech that SC is *trying* to build, working just fine

3) LOD It was never - ever - pulled on Steam, but since you guys LIE about EVERYTHING to suit your narrative, the joke's on you. The game is right there on Steam but now in closed BETA. We even released a new build yesterday. Announcement: right there on Steam:

4) Comparing LOD, an indie title, to a $117 million train-wreck is always hilarious to me. I'm not even flattered by the comparison because SC is shite - and toxic.

5) I am sure that every dev - especially indies - who have three decades and over a dozen games across multiple platforms - would love to be a "2nd rate, inferior game designer" as you say. nice try.

You should go outside. Your shitty little game is never - ever - coming out. Whatever amount you put into it, you should have donated to charity. And nothing you do - or say - is going to change that. Raging on the Internet isn't going to change that either. DEAL WITH IT.

1 - Personal attacks is your bread and butter so if you can't deal with comments and have to take them personally then stop making them yourself. SC is doing just fine. it is available now so not sure what your 'out' comment means? It hasn't released as a complete game yet but...duh...it is still in development.

2 - LOD is just fine? How many people play the game? Fine is a matter of opinion but numbers of players is not. You are a sub par developer with a sub par attitude to other people and your game reflects it.

3 - Never pulled...yeah ok!

http://massivelyop.com/2016/04/11/derek-smart-is-pulling-line-of-defense-from-steam-over-review-bombing/

Steam: -
All I could find was Line Of Defense Tactics - Tactical Advantage

User reviews:

OVERALL:

Negative (19 reviews)

Release Date: 17 Mar, 2014

You are just misunderstood right?

4 - You can say that about SC all you want....you game is 100 times worse.

5 - Yeah I am sure it is every designers goal to be called an inferior developer. The fact you are proud of it speaks volumes.

You should stay inside and finish your game. I don't have a game btw so why you would say it is never coming out....? As for how much I put into it...a whopping £25. Which is £25 more then your game is worth.

And take you OWN advice.
Raging on the internet isn't going to change the fact that SC is a better game then you could hope to ever develop.
Chris Roberts is a more successful and better game designer then you will ever be.
When people compare the legacy of Derek Smart and Chris Roberts side by side, one will be known as a successful game designer, film producer, genre defining visionary, and you will be the pathetic, wannabe who campaigned endlessly out of pure petty spite.

History will remember who you both are and will record without doubt your failures and his successes.

Vaross · July 2016

This thread has turned into back and forth bickering, accusations, and insults. I am locking it.

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