Just like other P2W games have not died, neither will Black Desert after this change- this will increase their revenue stream and they'll simply make more money.
Because gamers have the memory of a goldfish and are easily amused... and some times downright fools.
If people speak with their wallets, these companies would not fck up with players.
"Everyone whining about the move by Kakao to allow users to sell cash shop items for in game currency on the market have zero understanding of online economics.
There are two key performance indicators (KPI) for an online business which does not sell tangible goods and they are:
1. Number of users
2. Average Revenue per User (ARPU).
In the case of BDO EU/US there was a short term KPI at launch as well which was:
3. Number of people who pre-order.
It should be noted that 3 was only a short term KPI to give an indication of how much Kakao should invest in EU/US operations (open and run the business from Europe or manage operations from Korea). Once the game actually launched 3 rapidly became irrelevant as 1 and 2 take over.
Now, Pearl Abyss (the owners of the game) look at these KPI across all regions they have licensed the game to determine which markets are strong and which are need work. If one region is not performing as well as the others (lower ARPU) then they analyse what is different about that market and make changes to correct the problem.
It is pretty bloody clear that ARPU in EU/US is not as high as it is in other regions - if it was or if it was higher, they would not make any changes which might disrupt their revenues. So Daum looked at what is different in other regions that might contribute to the higher ARPU and the blindingly obvious difference is the ability to sell cash shop items in the game.
Whether you guys like it or not you are in the minority and whether you think Kakao looking at short to medium gains is a good idea or not is utterly irrelevant. With very few exceptions, online video games have a short to medium term lifecycle because people move on to the next "big thing" even if they have committed significant time and resources into a game. That is the nature of the world - it is not static, people move on, new things become available and people want to be part of the new thing.
Furthermore, Kakao have no legal responsibility to keep you happy but they do have a legal obligation to keep their shareholders happy (it is called fiduciary duty look it up). The way you keep shareholders happy is by maximising their return on their investment and making business decision which will increase profits and thus dividends.
If you think Kakao have a duty to you you are sadly naive and mistaken - you are utterly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The market says P2W, market performance confirms overwhelming that P2W works and as such Kakao have an obligation and legal duty to their shareholders to implement P2W - and no matter how many sweaty little teenagers complain about it, it is not going to make any difference.
BDO EU/US ARPU -will- increase as a result of this change, that much is guaranteed."
Just like other P2W games have not died, neither will Black Desert after this change- this will increase their revenue stream and they'll simply make more money.
Ya so people have figured out how to turn MMO's into eCommerce sites, that's nothing new at all in general, ecommerce sites have been around for well over a decade. Great, they can maximize their income from the players, hardly creative and again easy to do once it was realized gamers will pay more money for the same thing.
Originally MMO's were not being created to explore new economic models and to take advantage of peoples spending habits and addictions. MMO's were created to for the first time being 1000's of gamers together in one world, to play those games we love together. Simple pure and fun.
Games were created to have fun, and usually built around the passion of a gamer himself, the programmer being the gamer.
So wonderful, we are in the process of creating the most effective systems to get money from people using a game platform as an estore. But how is that good for gaming? Obviously its not ,in any way. It doesnt mean more money to make great games, it means more money to create games that are better at getting more money out of players, its been horrible for gamers. Companies have refined how to get more money from people for the same experience and then designed even more exacting systems to extract even more money out of people. This is not why we started playing games how ever many years ago. At least it wasn't for me then and it isn't why I play games today.
^
Yeah if this is how MMOs are going to be monetized, I'm out. I play them to get invested in my character. There's a reason there's an "RPG" on the end of MMORPG. There's not point to invest time and effort in a character if everything can just be bought.
"Obviously its not ,in any way. It doesnt mean more money to make great games, it means more money to create games that are better at getting more money out of players, its been horrible for gamers. Companies have refined how to get more money from people for the same experience and then designed even more exacting systems to extract even more money out of people."
BDO is apparently even worse than that. The are extracting money not to make new games, but to open hair salons.
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
We've been through this though. I'm not enjoying this at your expense. I really do feel for you. I too have had my games that provided me the enjoyment I wanted in an online game. Then cam the changes.....Business model related changes and everything I loved went out the window.
My response was not to poke fun at you or to tell you "I told you so" But to point out that it's a damn shame that when one finds the game they want to play, someone else has to go and muck it up for no other reason than to wring every last dime from the player base without paying any attention to the fact that their games are successful and would probably make more money in the long run if players were happier. Instead they wreck it for everyone including themselves with these greedy dick moves.
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
You know, you could just take it less seriously and still enjoy the game. Games don't have to be a way of life, they can just be entertainment. It's not like people wouldn't be eons above you in power without selling items in the cash shop that were purchased for money. There are people who put tons of hours into this and other games who will always be above you.
I don't see this making that much of a difference in that.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
We've been through this though. I'm not enjoying this at your expense. I really do feel for you. I too have had my games that provided me the enjoyment I wanted in an online game. Then cam the changes.....Business model related changes and everything I loved went out the window.
My response was not to poke fun at you or to tell you "I told you so" But to point out that it's a damn shame that when one finds the game they want to play, someone else has to go and muck it up for no other reason than to wring every last dime from the player base without paying any attention to the fact that their games are successful and would probably make more money in the long run if players were happier. Instead they wreck it for everyone including themselves with these greedy dick moves.
Completely agree.
I was pointing it out ironically, it's obviously not the best if they can do cash shop crap like this and ruin games for people.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
You know, you could just take it less seriously and still enjoy the game. Games don't have to be a way of life, they can just be entertainment. It's not like people wouldn't be eons above you in power without selling items in the cash shop that were purchased for money. There are people who put tons of hours into this and other games who will always be above you.
I don't see this making that much of a difference in that.
This debate is only going to keep going in circles because everyone has a different opinion about what is that they find entertainment in a game. It is all subjective. If you find such a game entertaining, what right does anyone have to tell you any different?
The things is that for many of us, much of that entertainment has a competitive achievement factor attached to it. And without that, the game ceases being entertaining. While true that there will always be people that would otherwise be eons above others in power without the selling of items in the cash shop that were purchased with money, without that "purchased" power and advantage those where the players that were often praised and looked up to due their accomplishment in the game, and their achievements in the game inspired us to be competitive and play hard so that we too could reach those lofty goals.
If everyone is given the capability to attain those lofty goals by the mere swiping of a card, where is the pride and purpose of playing such a game? The mere ability for a player to simply "buy" a competitive advantage is against every rule of fair play and renders a game meaningless. The inability for some of you to fail to understand such a simple concept is perplexing. Be that as it may, to each their own. If you are able to derive entertainment from a game that allows for that type of superfluous game play, more power to you. Many of us expect more.
For me its not P2W what happens in BDO, its Pay to Progress or Pay to Skip, for me P2W is that i have to pay real life money for certain items i can not obtain by playing the game. Everything you can buy you also can get by playing the game, look at GW2, Wildstar, SWTOR only three where you can skip/progress faster by spending RL money.
BDO will be as much fun for me when the patch goes live
For me its not P2W what happens in BDO, its Pay to Progress or Pay to Skip, for me P2W is that i have to pay real life money for certain items i can not obtain by playing the game. Everything you can buy you also can get by playing the game, look at GW2, Wildstar, SWTOR only three where you can skip/progress faster by spending RL money.
BDO will be as much fun for me when the patch goes live
The difference being that in a game such as an MMORPG, "progress" is the game. As such,"progress" is "power. When you "pay to progress or pay to skip" in an MMORPG, you are "paying for power" since "progressing your character" is a means of "achieving power," and the very foundation of MMORPG game play. You are also failing to understand that many players will indeed be able to "buy power" by exchanging RL money for silver which they in turn will use to "buy" powerful items that would be otherwise very difficult to attain in the game by players who aren't otherwise using RL money due to RNG.
Sometimes one needs to be able to see the bigger picture to understand the reason behind the madness. Many of you appear to be missing the forest due to overabundance of trees.
For me its not P2W what happens in BDO, its Pay to Progress or Pay to Skip, for me P2W is that i have to pay real life money for certain items i can not obtain by playing the game. Everything you can buy you also can get by playing the game, look at GW2, Wildstar, SWTOR only three where you can skip/progress faster by spending RL money.
BDO will be as much fun for me when the patch goes live
Difference being that in a game such as an MMORPG, "progress" is the game. As such,"progress" is "power. When you "pay to progress or pay to skip" in an MMORPG, you are "paying for power" since "progressing your character" is a means of "achieving power" and the very foundation of MMORPG game play. Sometimes one needs to be able to see the bigger picture to understand the reason behind the madness. Many of you appear to be missing the forest due to overabundance of trees.
Im not missing the point, for me what i said in my post its not P2W, that is my opinion and i can have my opinion so please dont try to convince me of your opinion
Almost all B2P and F2P offer benefits when you pay money in the shop or have a subscription, BDO is no different. And GW2 is for many years a succes, why should BDO be any different?
And the progress you can also make by playing the game, it just takes longer......
For me its not P2W what happens in BDO, its Pay to Progress or Pay to Skip, for me P2W is that i have to pay real life money for certain items i can not obtain by playing the game. Everything you can buy you also can get by playing the game, look at GW2, Wildstar, SWTOR only three where you can skip/progress faster by spending RL money.
BDO will be as much fun for me when the patch goes live
Difference being that in a game such as an MMORPG, "progress" is the game. As such,"progress" is "power. When you "pay to progress or pay to skip" in an MMORPG, you are "paying for power" since "progressing your character" is a means of "achieving power" and the very foundation of MMORPG game play. You are also failing to understand that many players will indeed be able to "buy power" by exchanging RL money for silver which they in turn will use to buy items that would be otherwise very difficult to attain in the game by players who aren't otherwise using RL money due to RNG.
Sometimes one needs to be able to see the bigger picture to understand the reason behind the madness. Many of you appear to be missing the forest due to overabundance of trees.
I wish I could remember the thread someone posted a few years ago. I want to say it was for ArcheAge, but not certain.
"It's not Pay to Win" It's "Pay to faster"
I almost sprayed my coffee on my screen reading that, I laughed so hard.
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
You know, you could just take it less seriously and still enjoy the game. Games don't have to be a way of life, they can just be entertainment. It's not like people wouldn't be eons above you in power without selling items in the cash shop that were purchased for money. There are people who put tons of hours into this and other games who will always be above you.
I don't see this making that much of a difference in that.
This debate is only going to keep going in circles because everyone has a different opinion about what is that they find entertainment in a game. It is all subjective. If you find such a game entertaining, what right does anyone have to tell you any different?
The things is that for many of us, much of that entertainment has a competitive achievement factor attached to it. And without that, the game ceases being entertaining. While true that there will always be people that would otherwise be eons above others in power without the selling of items in the cash shop that were purchased with money, without that "purchased" power and advantage those where the players that were often praised and looked up to due their accomplishment in the game, and their achievements in the game inspired us to be competitive and play hard so that we too could reach those lofty goals.
If everyone is given the capability to attain those lofty goals by the mere swiping of a card, where is the pride and purpose of playing such a game? The mere ability for a player to simply "buy" a competitive advantage is against every rule of fair play and renders a game meaningless. The inability for some of you to fail to understand such a simple concept is perplexing. Be that as it may, to each their own. If you are able to derive entertainment from a game that allows for that type of superfluous game play, more power to you. Many of us expect more.
Your motivations are questionable. The only race you should worry about is your own; applies to real life as well.
Your accomplisments should be your own, and not rely on the recognition (or fawning) from others.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Glad you guys are having so much fun telling me "I told you so".
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
You know, you could just take it less seriously and still enjoy the game. Games don't have to be a way of life, they can just be entertainment. It's not like people wouldn't be eons above you in power without selling items in the cash shop that were purchased for money. There are people who put tons of hours into this and other games who will always be above you.
I don't see this making that much of a difference in that.
This debate is only going to keep going in circles because everyone has a different opinion about what is that they find entertainment in a game. It is all subjective. If you find such a game entertaining, what right does anyone have to tell you any different?
The things is that for many of us, much of that entertainment has a competitive achievement factor attached to it. And without that, the game ceases being entertaining. While true that there will always be people that would otherwise be eons above others in power without the selling of items in the cash shop that were purchased with money, without that "purchased" power and advantage those where the players that were often praised and looked up to due their accomplishment in the game, and their achievements in the game inspired us to be competitive and play hard so that we too could reach those lofty goals.
If everyone is given the capability to attain those lofty goals by the mere swiping of a card, where is the pride and purpose of playing such a game? The mere ability for a player to simply "buy" a competitive advantage is against every rule of fair play and renders a game meaningless. The inability for some of you to fail to understand such a simple concept is perplexing. Be that as it may, to each their own. If you are able to derive entertainment from a game that allows for that type of superfluous game play, more power to you. Many of us expect more.
Your motivations are questionable. The only race you should worry about is your own; applies to real life as well.
Your accomplisments should be your own, and not rely on the recognition (or fawning) from others.
Your mistaken. Althought they do play a role, the key word here isn't motivation or accomplishment, its "competition." If I am going to play a game with others, I want the competition to be of that of an equal playing field. Otherwise, why even play with others? We would all be better off playing single player games.
This debate is only going to keep going in circles because everyone has a different opinion about what is that they find entertainment in a game. It is all subjective. If you find such a game entertaining, what right does anyone have to tell you any different?
The things is that for many of us, much of that entertainment has a competitive achievement factor attached to it. And without that, the game ceases being entertaining. While true that there will always be people that would otherwise be eons above others in power without the selling of items in the cash shop that were purchased with money, without that "purchased" power and advantage those where the players that were often praised and looked up to due their accomplishment in the game, and their achievements in the game inspired us to be competitive and play hard so that we too could reach those lofty goals.
If everyone is given the capability to attain those lofty goals by the mere swiping of a card, where is the pride and purpose of playing such a game? The mere ability for a player to simply "buy" a competitive advantage is against every rule of fair play and renders a game meaningless. The inability for some of you to fail to understand such a simple concept is perplexing. Be that as it may, to each their own. If you are able to derive entertainment from a game that allows for that type of superfluous game play, more power to you. Many of us expect more.
I suppose that's a good point and well said. However, I don't see the trend ever turning back so unless people can come to grips with how games are going, I don't see many people ever enjoying them again.
Granted, this is less prevalent with games made in the west but there just aren't a lot of mmo's coming out of the west at the moment.
But those who don't see your point are probably looking at these games as something "other" than being praised for accomplishments.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Once you take the cap off of the amount users can spend, and see the revenues climb, its pretty hard to go back to a system where all your players are giving you a flat fee.
Comments
It's still the best era for PC gaming. I still have tons of great games to play.
It just monumentally sucks that the best MMORPG experience I've ever had is about to be flushed down the toilet in a couple days.
Enjoy your yuks, though.
If people speak with their wallets, these companies would not fck up with players.
New players can get a welcome package and old/returning players can also get a welcome back package and 7 days free subscription time! Just click here to use my referral invitation
Yeah if this is how MMOs are going to be monetized, I'm out. I play them to get invested in my character. There's a reason there's an "RPG" on the end of MMORPG. There's not point to invest time and effort in a character if everything can just be bought.
"Obviously its not ,in any way. It doesnt mean more money to make great games, it means more money to create games that are better at getting more money out of players, its been horrible for gamers. Companies have refined how to get more money from people for the same experience and then designed even more exacting systems to extract even more money out of people."
BDO is apparently even worse than that. The are extracting money not to make new games, but to open hair salons.
My response was not to poke fun at you or to tell you "I told you so" But to point out that it's a damn shame that when one finds the game they want to play, someone else has to go and muck it up for no other reason than to wring every last dime from the player base without paying any attention to the fact that their games are successful and would probably make more money in the long run if players were happier. Instead they wreck it for everyone including themselves with these greedy dick moves.
I don't see this making that much of a difference in that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I was pointing it out ironically, it's obviously not the best if they can do cash shop crap like this and ruin games for people.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/This debate is only going to keep going in circles because everyone has a different opinion about what is that they find entertainment in a game. It is all subjective. If you find such a game entertaining, what right does anyone have to tell you any different?
The things is that for many of us, much of that entertainment has a competitive achievement factor attached to it. And without that, the game ceases being entertaining. While true that there will always be people that would otherwise be eons above others in power without the selling of items in the cash shop that were purchased with money, without that "purchased" power and advantage those where the players that were often praised and looked up to due their accomplishment in the game, and their achievements in the game inspired us to be competitive and play hard so that we too could reach those lofty goals.
If everyone is given the capability to attain those lofty goals by the mere swiping of a card, where is the pride and purpose of playing such a game? The mere ability for a player to simply "buy" a competitive advantage is against every rule of fair play and renders a game meaningless. The inability for some of you to fail to understand such a simple concept is perplexing. Be that as it may, to each their own. If you are able to derive entertainment from a game that allows for that type of superfluous game play, more power to you. Many of us expect more.
Everything you can buy you also can get by playing the game, look at GW2, Wildstar, SWTOR only three where you can skip/progress faster by spending RL money.
BDO will be as much fun for me when the patch goes live
Sometimes one needs to be able to see the bigger picture to understand the reason behind the madness. Many of you appear to be missing the forest due to overabundance of trees.
Almost all B2P and F2P offer benefits when you pay money in the shop or have a subscription, BDO is no different.
And GW2 is for many years a succes, why should BDO be any different?
And the progress you can also make by playing the game, it just takes longer......
"It's not Pay to Win" It's "Pay to faster"
I almost sprayed my coffee on my screen reading that, I laughed so hard.
Your accomplisments should be your own, and not rely on the recognition (or fawning) from others.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Granted, this is less prevalent with games made in the west but there just aren't a lot of mmo's coming out of the west at the moment.
But those who don't see your point are probably looking at these games as something "other" than being praised for accomplishments.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I play MMOs for the Forum PVP