The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
No there is no real definition of P2W and that's why there is so much discussion about it in my opinion. I don't quite understand how it's possible to get the charge back when people played the game and used the service and all for 5 months or so. I do get the false advertisement argument but i don't understand it fully tbh.
@KouDy : Take a look at the BDO game page here at MMORPG and in particular what is listed for Payment Model and Price. You'll find "Buy to Play" which was true and Retail $29.99 also true, but is that really the payment model of BDO?
If I had been told up front that BDO would require the Buy To Play retail cost + the monthly subscription(optional) of ~$30 for the Value Pack + the opportunity to spend anywhere from $40-400 monthly on Cash to in game Silver exchange via the Cash Shop; I would have been like ummm...Questions!!!
So, I can spend $29.99 but there will be others who will be spending close to $500 a month in a competitive (Siege Wars) PvP game? Does that mean I'll be a lot weaker? Will they level a lot faster? What exactly will they have or be able to do that I won't? What does spending that amount get you?
But therein lies the problem...Kakao sold the game as Buy to Play and in the fine print added something equivalent to Cash Shop items are subject to change. There was no mention of the Value Pack or what level of in game currency could be obtained from the Cash Shop. If they had...would they have sold as many copies at Launch? Nowai. All they had to do was be honest with the player base and tell us that we would eventually get the same system KR had with the addition of the up-front purchase of the game. Then people could have made wise consumer decisions, but Kakao wasn't up front and that mislead consumers.
What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
Jep, now all you need is a legally binding definition of what P2W actually is, and you are all ready to go.
Oh...
I think I detected a flaw in your argument....
Except, of course, when the defendant doesn't even respond to the claim, thus making the judgment default automatically to the plaintiff. Whoops. Darn. And there's the bigger flaw in your argument.
I don't have to prove anything when Daum doesn't see fit to play by Paypal's rules and respond to the chargeback process. All this business about "individual investigation" is horse **** - if they were diligently working to preserve every bit of credit charged, then they would not have allowed my claim to escalate unanswered.
This company trades in lies. The above quoted email is no different - just scare tactics to try to overawe the weak-willed.
I'm under the impression that PayPal is not the only financial institution that already has flagged Daum/Kakao transactions. I've heard of many experiences already where the institutions approved the fraud claims on the spot as they were pre-approved in their systems. It usually takes some time before they render a decision and refund you. The snowball is just starting to roll down the hill.
What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
I've only once done a chargeback. I had bought something that said it was $0.50, and my card was charged $15. My credit card company actually flagged it for me as a suspicious charge, as apparently it was a vendor that people do a lot of chargebacks against for the same reason as me. The listed phone number for the vendor was unreachable, as if you called it, you just got static. So the credit card company believed my claims and refunded me the $14.50. This was not related to gaming.
That's the sort of thing that chargebacks are for: outright fraud or mistakes not on the part of the consumer. Charges that you didn't authorize at all, amounts larger than the agreed price, or when you agreed to buy something but never got what you were promised. Getting what you were promised and then weeks or months later deciding you don't like it anymore is not grounds for a chargeback.
Yeah, I'm with you. Consumer protection is for nubs.
It's my hope every MMO publisher going forward sells their game as Buy to Play and then adds in the likes of a Subscription like Value Pack and then a F2P like RL to ingame Currency exchange after several months. Then all consumer types will be pleased, the publishers and developers will reap the financial rewards and the players will continue to be gouged....ahh who cares about the players anyways.
What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
No, it's more like you buy something at a restaurant, get what you asked, and it's good. So you go back to the same restaurant again later and the same thing happens. Then the tenth time you go there, you see that their menu has changed and they don't sell what you like anymore. So you demand your money back for all of the previous meals that you ate there.
If you just bought the game, you may get your chargeback. But if you've already played for weeks, if not months, you may end in trouble. And rightfully so.
Uh huh. So Kakao is issuing warnings to people because they are concerned about their customer's well-being? They are confident they will win disputes, but because of concern for their customers, they are graciously offering them a week to change their minds?
I'm not saying people should or should not do a chargeback- that's as personal decision and you certainly should weigh the pros and cons. I think there's valid reasons for both sides and I myself haven't decided yet if i will do one.
But taking this e-mail at face value from a company now proven to be recklessly deceitful is foolhardy.
Yeah, I'm with you. Consumer protection is for nubs.
It's my hope every MMO publisher going forward sells their game as Buy to Play and then adds in the likes of a Subscription like Value Pack and then a F2P like RL to ingame Currency exchange after several months. Then all consumer types will be pleased, the publishers and developers will reap the financial rewards and the players will continue to be gouged....ahh who cares about the players anyways.
Well, the "logic" behind these chargebacks against DAUM sets a great precedent: If a MMO developer makes any changes to their game after a few months, just claim you disagree with it and do a chargeback !
Man you people kill me , If you are so worried about 30$ or 50$ , or 200$ FFS that you blew on a hobby , you really need to get your priorities in life straight ..
Maybe you shouldnt of spent the money at all and focus more on your Real Life and career , rather than , backcharging 50$ .... Particualry when its money you spent and got many hours of enjoyment from ..
Thats what hobbies are for , for the most part a leisure activity to blow some money on have some fun ..
And people sit here pissin and moanin like there friggin puppy got run over by the pizza dellivery guy ..
got no sympathy for any of yas ..
And it really wouldnt have taken much research to realize what Daum/Kak were all about and there wording .. matter a fact there were many threads right here on this site at the End of BDO CB , when many folks here told yas what would happen .. and nearly scripted it out for yas ..
So ya went and stepped in a fuggin dogpie , so what, you had fun runnin around in the yard , Now go Hose off , get cleaned up , Lesson learned, next time watch yer step , and move on ...
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
Every time you pay a tax you take it in the ass so don't give me this righteous bullshit of you want to take a stand so people stop getting screwed, go petition something that is legitimate because all i see here is a bunch first world pussy problems.
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
Every time you pay a tax you take it in the ass so don't give me this righteous bullshit of you want to take a stand so people stop getting screwed, go petition something that is legitimate because all i see here is a bunch first world pussy problems.
It's amazing seeing people get so personally invested in business that has absolutely zero bearing on them whatsoever. Would you lose his mind if he posted on here that he had chosen not to buy the game beforehand? No? Then what's the difference if he returns it?
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
Every time you pay a tax you take it in the ass so don't give me this righteous bullshit of you want to take a stand so people stop getting screwed, go petition something that is legitimate because all i see here is a bunch first world pussy problems.
It's amazing seeing people get so personally invested in business that has absolutely zero bearing on them whatsoever. Would you lose his mind if he posted on here that he had chosen not to buy the game beforehand? No? Then what's the difference if he returns it?
A chargeback is not a return. If people are allowed to return a game and get their money back even after playing it for arbitrarily long amounts of time, then how are game developers supposed to make money?
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
Every time you pay a tax you take it in the ass so don't give me this righteous bullshit of you want to take a stand so people stop getting screwed, go petition something that is legitimate because all i see here is a bunch first world pussy problems.
It's amazing seeing people get so personally invested in business that has absolutely zero bearing on them whatsoever. Would you lose his mind if he posted on here that he had chosen not to buy the game beforehand? No? Then what's the difference if he returns it?
I wouldn't lose his mind....no.
But yes...people here seem to get caught up in what others do. Problem is...why are you allowed to return the thing? Shoes, pants, food.....if there's a defect, then you can return it. Normally you cannot just because "you don't like it".
So...these threads just end up showing a bunch of ppl that have no idea how it works. You go to a restaurant....get a bad burger...you return it then. Not the next day. Not a week later. You return it then.
You get shoes that don't quite fit....you return then THEN! Not months later.
Either way...you do it right away. You don't get to test it out for months.
So I have seen many threads like this....and I don't think people are getting it. You paid for something. Stop "testing/playing it" for days then asking for a refund after.
I'm sure I'm wrong though....so...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The game is still fun regardless of p2w. Good luck on your charge backs, you people really that mad over 50$, oh they lied to you? welcome to the 21st century grow up and go back to work, the time you spend bitching at daum/kakao and making stupid ass youtube videos and petitions you could of earned more than what you've spent on BDO to play an entirely different game with the same type of DEVs that really they don't give a shit about you.
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
Every time you pay a tax you take it in the ass so don't give me this righteous bullshit of you want to take a stand so people stop getting screwed, go petition something that is legitimate because all i see here is a bunch first world pussy problems.
Love how you twist it and then get all bent out of shape. You are the one that is a little too into it, so to speak. I think it s hilarious if a lot of people get their money back. Screw this company and their game.
I hope that doesn t hurt your little feelings too much.
I did miss something from the previous posts. What do players actually ask to be refunded for? Subscription, cash shop items, box price? Also, assuming that this whole thing escalates into a class action against them, isn't the term "P2W" too open to interpretation in a court of law to expect any results?
No not really because they have falsely advertised their game. Look at it this way , or better yet go ahead and make a thread about it.
*Would u of still bought bdo if they stated that they would be selling p2w / gold w/e in a couple of months after release?*
It's the same principal as to going out to a restaurant and ordering something but after u get your order , the waiter comes back and hands u something else whit no opportunity of changing it....
No, it's more like you buy something at a restaurant, get what you asked, and it's good. So you go back to the same restaurant again later and the same thing happens. Then the tenth time you go there, you see that their menu has changed and they don't sell what you like anymore. So you demand your money back for all of the previous meals that you ate there.
Thats actually a pretty horrible analogy. A restaurant provides you a temporary service. Changes later have no bearing on a previous experience. An mmo is an on-going service and, as such, changes taking place down the line can undermine the time and money you invested in the game.
Grounds for a chargeback? Perhaps not, but its still a very different scenario.
Yeah, I'm with you. Consumer protection is for nubs.
It's my hope every MMO publisher going forward sells their game as Buy to Play and then adds in the likes of a Subscription like Value Pack and then a F2P like RL to ingame Currency exchange after several months. Then all consumer types will be pleased, the publishers and developers will reap the financial rewards and the players will continue to be gouged....ahh who cares about the players anyways.
Well, the "logic" behind these chargebacks against DAUM sets a great precedent: If a MMO developer makes any changes to their game after a few months, just claim you disagree with it and do a chargeback !
You'll never have to pay for a MMO ever again...
Let's forget about this shit ...let's try this with houses cars food gas I mean if we can game for free let's have everything for free
No there is no real definition of P2W and that's why there is so much discussion about it in my opinion. I don't quite understand how it's possible to get the charge back when people played the game and used the service and all for 5 months or so. I do get the false advertisement argument but i don't understand it fully tbh.
@KouDy : Take a look at the BDO game page here at MMORPG and in particular what is listed for Payment Model and Price. You'll find "Buy to Play" which was true and Retail $29.99 also true, but is that really the payment model of BDO?
If I had been told up front that BDO would require the Buy To Play retail cost + the monthly subscription(optional) of ~$30 for the Value Pack + the opportunity to spend anywhere from $40-400 monthly on Cash to in game Silver exchange via the Cash Shop; I would have been like ummm...Questions!!!
So, I can spend $29.99 but there will be others who will be spending close to $500 a month in a competitive (Siege Wars) PvP game? Does that mean I'll be a lot weaker? Will they level a lot faster? What exactly will they have or be able to do that I won't? What does spending that amount get you?
But therein lies the problem...Kakao sold the game as Buy to Play and in the fine print added something equivalent to Cash Shop items are subject to change. There was no mention of the Value Pack or what level of in game currency could be obtained from the Cash Shop. If they had...would they have sold as many copies at Launch? Nowai. All they had to do was be honest with the player base and tell us that we would eventually get the same system KR had with the addition of the up-front purchase of the game. Then people could have made wise consumer decisions, but Kakao wasn't up front and that mislead consumers.
No there is no real definition of P2W and that's why there is so much discussion about it in my opinion. I don't quite understand how it's possible to get the charge back when people played the game and used the service and all for 5 months or so. I do get the false advertisement argument but i don't understand it fully tbh.
@KouDy : Take a look at the BDO game page here at MMORPG and in particular what is listed for Payment Model and Price. You'll find "Buy to Play" which was true and Retail $29.99 also true, but is that really the payment model of BDO?
If I had been told up front that BDO would require the Buy To Play retail cost + the monthly subscription(optional) of ~$30 for the Value Pack + the opportunity to spend anywhere from $40-400 monthly on Cash to in game Silver exchange via the Cash Shop; I would have been like ummm...Questions!!!
So, I can spend $29.99 but there will be others who will be spending close to $500 a month in a competitive (Siege Wars) PvP game? Does that mean I'll be a lot weaker? Will they level a lot faster? What exactly will they have or be able to do that I won't? What does spending that amount get you?
But therein lies the problem...Kakao sold the game as Buy to Play and in the fine print added something equivalent to Cash Shop items are subject to change. There was no mention of the Value Pack or what level of in game currency could be obtained from the Cash Shop. If they had...would they have sold as many copies at Launch? Nowai. All they had to do was be honest with the player base and tell us that we would eventually get the same system KR had with the addition of the up-front purchase of the game. Then people could have made wise consumer decisions, but Kakao wasn't up front and that mislead consumers.
No the game should be free .....let's face it $29.95 to play a game forever is just too much , Hell buy this game and go to movie and you have spent $60 for a years entertainment
Comments
If I had been told up front that BDO would require the Buy To Play retail cost + the monthly subscription(optional) of ~$30 for the Value Pack + the opportunity to spend anywhere from $40-400 monthly on Cash to in game Silver exchange via the Cash Shop; I would have been like ummm...Questions!!!
So, I can spend $29.99 but there will be others who will be spending close to $500 a month in a competitive (Siege Wars) PvP game? Does that mean I'll be a lot weaker? Will they level a lot faster? What exactly will they have or be able to do that I won't? What does spending that amount get you?
But therein lies the problem...Kakao sold the game as Buy to Play and in the fine print added something equivalent to Cash Shop items are subject to change. There was no mention of the Value Pack or what level of in game currency could be obtained from the Cash Shop. If they had...would they have sold as many copies at Launch? Nowai. All they had to do was be honest with the player base and tell us that we would eventually get the same system KR had with the addition of the up-front purchase of the game. Then people could have made wise consumer decisions, but Kakao wasn't up front and that mislead consumers.
I don't have to prove anything when Daum doesn't see fit to play by Paypal's rules and respond to the chargeback process. All this business about "individual investigation" is horse **** - if they were diligently working to preserve every bit of credit charged, then they would not have allowed my claim to escalate unanswered.
This company trades in lies. The above quoted email is no different - just scare tactics to try to overawe the weak-willed.
That's the sort of thing that chargebacks are for: outright fraud or mistakes not on the part of the consumer. Charges that you didn't authorize at all, amounts larger than the agreed price, or when you agreed to buy something but never got what you were promised. Getting what you were promised and then weeks or months later deciding you don't like it anymore is not grounds for a chargeback.
/smh
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
It's my hope every MMO publisher going forward sells their game as Buy to Play and then adds in the likes of a Subscription like Value Pack and then a F2P like RL to ingame Currency exchange after several months. Then all consumer types will be pleased, the publishers and developers will reap the financial rewards and the players will continue to be gouged....ahh who cares about the players anyways.
I'm not saying people should or should not do a chargeback- that's as personal decision and you certainly should weigh the pros and cons. I think there's valid reasons for both sides and I myself haven't decided yet if i will do one.
But taking this e-mail at face value from a company now proven to be recklessly deceitful is foolhardy.
You'll never have to pay for a MMO ever again...
Maybe you shouldnt of spent the money at all and focus more on your Real Life and career , rather than , backcharging 50$ .... Particualry when its money you spent and got many hours of enjoyment from ..
Thats what hobbies are for , for the most part a leisure activity to blow some money on have some fun ..
And people sit here pissin and moanin like there friggin puppy got run over by the pizza dellivery guy ..
got no sympathy for any of yas ..
And it really wouldnt have taken much research to realize what Daum/Kak were all about and there wording .. matter a fact there were many threads right here on this site at the End of BDO CB , when many folks here told yas what would happen .. and nearly scripted it out for yas ..
So ya went and stepped in a fuggin dogpie , so what, you had fun runnin around in the yard , Now go Hose off , get cleaned up , Lesson learned, next time watch yer step , and move on ...
I don t think it s that $50 is a big deal, it s called principle. I guess we as a society should just bend over and take it. I say no to that. I hope people get their money back and teach these companies to stop BS ing.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
But yes...people here seem to get caught up in what others do. Problem is...why are you allowed to return the thing? Shoes, pants, food.....if there's a defect, then you can return it. Normally you cannot just because "you don't like it".
So...these threads just end up showing a bunch of ppl that have no idea how it works. You go to a restaurant....get a bad burger...you return it then. Not the next day. Not a week later. You return it then.
You get shoes that don't quite fit....you return then THEN! Not months later.
Either way...you do it right away. You don't get to test it out for months.
So I have seen many threads like this....and I don't think people are getting it. You paid for something. Stop "testing/playing it" for days then asking for a refund after.
I'm sure I'm wrong though....so...
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Love how you twist it and then get all bent out of shape. You are the one that is a little too into it, so to speak. I think it s hilarious if a lot of people get their money back. Screw this company and their game.
I hope that doesn t hurt your little feelings too much.
Grounds for a chargeback? Perhaps not, but its still a very different scenario.
Let's forget about this shit ...let's try this with houses cars food gas I mean if we can game for free let's have everything for free
No the game should be free .....let's face it $29.95 to play a game forever is just too much , Hell buy this game and go to movie and you have spent $60 for a years entertainment