It's all fine and dandy to play the games the way you like to play them, believe me I respect that. However, you aren't even experiencing the game. You may as well post the The Burning Crusades was a horrible expansion because with your play style you'll never experience that either.
Complete and utter nonsense.
I never got past level 49 until Wrath....
You can get the same feeling just boosting a random character to 100 and going to TM/SS and killing some lvl 15 questing nubs. "Twinking" isnt a thing. Its just a lame excuse to fight people who have less than 0% chance of winning and then feeling good about yourself. Killing a lvl 15 as a lvl 100 boosted will give you the same high with 99% less effort. Your time saved could be spent working a real job to afford a a flag of pwnership on ebay. That way you can really let that lvl 15 scrub know how bad ass you are.
There's a huge amount of bugs in this expansion as well, many of which were posted about all over wowhead since beta. Overall, it just lacked a large amount of forethought and basic polish, polish usually being one of Blizzards specialties.
I'm reading alot of mixed opinions about Legion everywhere -and this comes rather early after it's release. Afaik at this time in WOD everyone was still cheering. Classes ruined, classes even more streamlined, boring 4 button rotations, Garrison v2, WoD v2, artefact grind, being stuck with a single spec, alt-unfriendly, no flying, riding sucks due to the map topography, gated content everywhere, professions broken/too expensive/not worth it, single player experience etc. etc.
Going back to WoW would cost me the addon and a sub, which is about 40Eur in total. That is too much just to snoop back into a game that i may or may not be burned out on in a week or two. Plus i only have one level 100 character, because i got bored in WoD after 3 weeks and couldn't be bothered to level my alts.
So, if i'd go back now, i would sub to my current account as it is and play 2-3 more alts up to level 100. Do some profession stuff, some dungeon healing that i love to do and not invest too much time into gearing up.
If the game stays fun to me, i can still buy Legion later on (perhaps even at a discount) and i would have more than just one character, but a variety to chose from and more prepared. If i get bored along the way, i have only invested 12Eur and did not buy the addon through which i would have to drag myself in agony in order to get my money's worth.
That may be the best plan for me, after seing that Legion is not getting all that praise that WoD got in it's early days.
Those cons are spot on. The topography is insane in these new zones and all of the classes have been reduced to 4 buttons with almost no cc, utility, buffs or debuffs. I am shocked people aren't going insane over the complete gutting of the classes.
I am playing the game because I have friends that still play wow that talked me into it. I found the leveling pretty undesirable as I hate questing and being told what to do in what is supposed to be a virtual world. I didn't play WoD much so I can't really speak to garrisons and how much you were required to sit in them. I know I rarely visit my class hall as it requires travel for not much benefit. Also they barely give you enough followers initially to do much of anything.
Ultimately I'm temporarily playing this game for the group items like dungeons with guildies and that is still there and kinda fun.
I am told I don't like to play WoW even though I have been playing for 10 years. I like to twink. Legion is AWESOME for me because of the PvP changes. I can PvP at any level and never have to grind anything. But this post isn't about twinking or PvP.
It is about why Legion is WoD 2.0 and how neither expansion offered anything for me in the way of content I would be remotely interested in.
In WoD....
I didn't play with my toy soldiers or toy boats in the Facebook game called Garrisons.
I didn't jump through the 6000 hoops to get Pathfinder. (Although I really enjoy flying--I would NEVER EVER complete Pathfinder.)
I didn't try to collect mounts and rep. I have a blue drake and some proto-drakes so I am good on mounts.
I didn't even enter Ashran.
So in Legion...
I won't play with my toy soldiers inthe Facebook game called Order Halls
I won't jump through the 6000 hoops to get the Legion flying achievement.
I won't build an artifact weapon.
I will never earn an honor talent.
I will never roll a demon hunter.
I bet you are thinking "this chick doesn't actually like wow."
I do. I like to fly, and fish and gather swiftthistle and make a new level 29 character in about 40 mins and then lock my xp and get in a 3 minute Q for the battle ground I want to play in.
So Legion has been great for me, but if I were a "traditional player" who is greedy for artificial awards like achievements and boss drops and crafting then I would be very unhappy with a WoD 2.0 expansion.
So you didn't play any of the Legion content but somehow know it's like WoD?
I am told I don't like to play WoW even though I have been playing for 10 years. I like to twink. Legion is AWESOME for me because of the PvP changes. I can PvP at any level and never have to grind anything. But this post isn't about twinking or PvP.
It is about why Legion is WoD 2.0 and how neither expansion offered anything for me in the way of content I would be remotely interested in.
In WoD....
I didn't play with my toy soldiers or toy boats in the Facebook game called Garrisons.
I didn't jump through the 6000 hoops to get Pathfinder. (Although I really enjoy flying--I would NEVER EVER complete Pathfinder.)
I didn't try to collect mounts and rep. I have a blue drake and some proto-drakes so I am good on mounts.
I didn't even enter Ashran.
So in Legion...
I won't play with my toy soldiers inthe Facebook game called Order Halls
I won't jump through the 6000 hoops to get the Legion flying achievement.
I won't build an artifact weapon.
I will never earn an honor talent.
I will never roll a demon hunter.
I bet you are thinking "this chick doesn't actually like wow."
I do. I like to fly, and fish and gather swiftthistle and make a new level 29 character in about 40 mins and then lock my xp and get in a 3 minute Q for the battle ground I want to play in.
So Legion has been great for me, but if I were a "traditional player" who is greedy for artificial awards like achievements and boss drops and crafting then I would be very unhappy with a WoD 2.0 expansion.
So you didn't play any of the Legion content but somehow know it's like WoD?
I am told I don't like to play WoW even though I have been playing for 10 years. I like to twink. Legion is AWESOME for me because of the PvP changes. I can PvP at any level and never have to grind anything. But this post isn't about twinking or PvP.
It is about why Legion is WoD 2.0 and how neither expansion offered anything for me in the way of content I would be remotely interested in.
In WoD....
I didn't play with my toy soldiers or toy boats in the Facebook game called Garrisons.
I didn't jump through the 6000 hoops to get Pathfinder. (Although I really enjoy flying--I would NEVER EVER complete Pathfinder.)
I didn't try to collect mounts and rep. I have a blue drake and some proto-drakes so I am good on mounts.
I didn't even enter Ashran.
So in Legion...
I won't play with my toy soldiers inthe Facebook game called Order Halls
I won't jump through the 6000 hoops to get the Legion flying achievement.
I won't build an artifact weapon.
I will never earn an honor talent.
I will never roll a demon hunter.
I bet you are thinking "this chick doesn't actually like wow."
I do. I like to fly, and fish and gather swiftthistle and make a new level 29 character in about 40 mins and then lock my xp and get in a 3 minute Q for the battle ground I want to play in.
So Legion has been great for me, but if I were a "traditional player" who is greedy for artificial awards like achievements and boss drops and crafting then I would be very unhappy with a WoD 2.0 expansion.
So you didn't play any of the Legion content but somehow know it's like WoD?
It's definitely an improved WoD imo. It's still WOW and the zones are pretty much "been there done that".
I don't care about heroics or raids or pvp so my fun is waning now that I'm done with all unlocked quests. I'm simply MMO'd out really
I didn't get an answer yesterday so I just checked and it LOOKS like Jewelcrafting is fixed. Ok, that might mean I play it sooner rather than later. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing for me.
I am told I don't like to play WoW even though I have been playing for 10 years. I like to twink. Legion is AWESOME for me because of the PvP changes. I can PvP at any level and never have to grind anything. But this post isn't about twinking or PvP.
It is about why Legion is WoD 2.0 and how neither expansion offered anything for me in the way of content I would be remotely interested in.
In WoD....
I didn't play with my toy soldiers or toy boats in the Facebook game called Garrisons.
I didn't jump through the 6000 hoops to get Pathfinder. (Although I really enjoy flying--I would NEVER EVER complete Pathfinder.)
I didn't try to collect mounts and rep. I have a blue drake and some proto-drakes so I am good on mounts.
I didn't even enter Ashran.
So in Legion...
I won't play with my toy soldiers inthe Facebook game called Order Halls
I won't jump through the 6000 hoops to get the Legion flying achievement.
I won't build an artifact weapon.
I will never earn an honor talent.
I will never roll a demon hunter.
I bet you are thinking "this chick doesn't actually like wow."
I do. I like to fly, and fish and gather swiftthistle and make a new level 29 character in about 40 mins and then lock my xp and get in a 3 minute Q for the battle ground I want to play in.
So Legion has been great for me, but if I were a "traditional player" who is greedy for artificial awards like achievements and boss drops and crafting then I would be very unhappy with a WoD 2.0 expansion.
To grind for your artifacts and Mana crystals is within itself boring the order entry reminds me of Never winter where u do daily's with the druids to many we add some of the old into this expansion for me, it was a BIG disappointment not even worth my coins so Im done again Ill wait another 2 years if they are still around.
How crazy that I am enjoying everything the OP hates. I assume he just has an aversion to having to move his hand and clicking fingers more often than to get him from point A to B. Don't wanna lose too much weight or stress out.
Dunno, i do not play it. Wife does and her guildies do. So far they all say they are enjoying it.
Dunno how long the guildies she is playing with will last. They all buy the expac's play for a month or so then fade away.
But wife says she likes how they changed things this time. Makes it easier to play with the different specs.
That's all i can go by, the people that i know personally say they like it so far.
Same here. Everyone I know who's playing says it's great! Of course, they said the same thing about Warlords of Draenor at first .... and so did I.
i am enjoying it as well. This is different than Draenor which ultimately failed due to the underlying goal of players playing individually via their garrisons totally destroying the connection to other players and the world. If it will have legs really depends on what gamers like to do. This one feels more geared towards PvE players (such as myself) but hard to tell until the patches come out.
In a lot of ways, Legion feels lazy just like WoD. There's only one armor set for quest rewards that just changes color depending on what zone you're in. The zones are tiny yet so densely packed that navigation is a chore. Dalaran is just an excuse to copy/paste an already-made hub city into Legion. Class Halls is Blizzard's refusal to listen to the fanbase. "Oh no, no, you're going to love Garrisons if we do them this way!"
Artifact weapons and the way progression works in Legion kills the idea of playing multiple specs or alts. Artifact weapon grinding means that you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage leveling another weapon alongside the one for your main spec. Because of the faction requirement for world quests, all characters have to do pretty much all quests in every zone in order to get the appropriate faction to start world quests at lvl 110 which kills the idea of lvling by PvP or by dungeons.
Ever since Cataclysm WoW feels less like it has been designed by Blizzard and more like it has been designed by all the people who tried to develop WoW killers in the past and failed miserably. Blizzard is killing their own game.
OP I understand your point, but even with all that, I can honestly say it's an improvement over the last xpac. I only came back because my friends did and they said they were enjoying it, compared to WOD. Who knows how long that will last, but I am having more fun than I did in Warlords.
Legion vs Warlords there are pros and cons, and def some similarities but as a xpac, it's an improvement on some of the systems introduced in WOD.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
This is the first expansion I didn't buy. WoW just feels much too stale these days. Every class revamp leaves them feeling more hollow than the last. Every storyline has been beaten to death. Meh it's still a solid game, it's just been used more times than Tila Tequila. The genre just needs something fresh and WoW isn't it.
I made it 110 and did all the Mythics and unlocked what was available in Suramar, and I got to say it seemed fun at first but things got pretty stale right away. The devs of this game are out of interesting ideas and the thing that made the game fun( actual server communities)in the past has been slowly patched out over the years to try to appeal to the masses.
The artifact is cool, but what the devs didn't think through is that changing spec just starts a new grind for you now. Because you will have to progress a new artifact. In legion they basically soft lock you into your spec.
I changed my spec after doing all of the main quests, took me only 4 hours of worldquests and endgame quests to back on the same level on my offspec ( now mainspec ). You complainers should have played vanilla where everything was about achieving things, not getting it thrown in your lap.
Oh, I forgot. A good game game is doing stuff mindlessly for 1000000000000000000x , and THEN you can have real fun.
And burn out as there is nothing to do.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Lets hope that when they announce the next expansion (probably within 6 months again) that they dont have a garrison-like system. Personally, I level a lot and it was always my draw to this game since I would mainly level for having professions up and maybe a side class incase my main was eventually screwed due to balancing. This whole garrison thing and psychologically manipulating people into feeling they have to baby each and every toon they level only drives people away.
OP I understand your point, but even with all that, I can honestly say it's an improvement over the last xpac. I only came back because my friends did and they said they were enjoying it, compared to WOD. Who knows how long that will last, but I am having more fun than I did in Warlords.
Legion vs Warlords there are pros and cons, and def some similarities but as a xpac, it's an improvement on some of the systems introduced in WOD.
It's definitely an improvement as they got rid of 90% of the stuff from garrisons and you at least see other people.. I'd prefer that all followers were available and instead they just limited the number of missions you could complete each day.
The artifact is cool, but what the devs didn't think through is that changing spec just starts a new grind for you now. Because you will have to progress a new artifact. In legion they basically soft lock you into your spec.
I changed my spec after doing all of the main quests, took me only 4 hours of worldquests and endgame quests to back on the same level on my offspec ( now mainspec ). You complainers should have played vanilla where everything was about achieving things, not getting it thrown in your lap.
Oh, I forgot. A good game game is doing stuff mindlessly for 1000000000000000000x , and THEN you can have real fun.
And burn out as there is nothing to do.
Ha! I definitely see your point, Muke, but I actually identify quite a bit with what AR-Aksovar is saying. I haven't purchased Legion yet but have been playing in Tanaan Jungle for the past couple of weeks it truly is way, way too easy to get good gear now. When I first ventured into the jungle I was under-geared being at around ilvl 632. But after a few days half my gear was ilvl 670 or more and after a week I was at ilvl 675 (give or take). And at the point, the challenge is non-existent with few exceptions, like perhaps trying to solo the Throne of Kil'jaedan where you still need to be careful.
Why do the developers now believe that having monsters shit out good gear so often is the way to go? I found more satisfaction in acquiring good gear when it was difficult to do so back in the earlier days of World of Warcraft. I'm still having fun with the game but I understand the preference for having good gear being a challenge to get your hands on, because once you have good gear you can faceroll everything outside of a small minority of creatures in the overworld.
Tanaan Jungle was a catch up mechanic... it was never intended to be anything more. Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder... ditto. In a nutshell, everything is a loot piñata by design because the belief is, you just pressed the instant 90 or instant 100 button and now need to get gear to raid the current (as in last tier) of content.
Legion is probably their worst expansion yet. Everyone has the same damn weapon per class. No matter what *path* you choose, the end result is the same. Should I spend my artifact points here or here? Doesn't matter... in the end you will have all of them. Should I start in Aszuna or elsewhere? Doesn't matter, the rewards and zone match whatever level you are. So you could be level 100 and someone else could be level 110 and you will do the same quests and the mobs will be as daft or as challenging for them as they are for you. You have zero sense that you are getting more powerful as you level because everything stays the same.
The mission table is annoying as hell... you have to keep coming back to your table to do your class quests through it... then you have to fly back to where you were to continue your questing. WoD wasn't so dependent on you doing anything in the garrison, it was a choice. In Legion it's mandatory.
I mean, I thought Cata was crap and Mop a close second... but Legion is by far worse. WoD was actually more entertaining than Legion is. I don't see people playing this nearly as long as they did WoD.
Tanaan Jungle was a catch up mechanic... it was never intended to be anything more. Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder... ditto. In a nutshell, everything is a loot piñata by design because the belief is, you just pressed the instant 90 or instant 100 button and now need to get gear to raid the current (as in last tier) of content.
Legion is probably their worst expansion yet. Everyone has the same damn weapon per class. No matter what *path* you choose, the end result is the same. Should I spend my artifact points here or here? Doesn't matter... in the end you will have all of them. Should I start in Aszuna or elsewhere? Doesn't matter, the rewards and zone match whatever level you are. So you could be level 100 and someone else could be level 110 and you will do the same quests and the mobs will be as daft or as challenging for them as they are for you. You have zero sense that you are getting more powerful as you level because everything stays the same.
The mission table is annoying as hell... you have to keep coming back to your table to do your class quests through it... then you have to fly back to where you were to continue your questing. WoD wasn't so dependent on you doing anything in the garrison, it was a choice. In Legion it's mandatory.
I mean, I thought Cata was crap and Mop a close second... but Legion is by far worse. WoD was actually more entertaining than Legion is. I don't see people playing this nearly as long as they did WoD.
WoD was a pile of festering excrement. Legion is better by such a large margin that it's hardly worth the comparison. The time commitment for the mission table is minimal also. And now you can do it from your phone or tablet. The final five missions that you get for the class campaign are generally 12+ hour missions so it's not like you're running back to the table every hour. And once you finish the class campaign you're free to do missions whenever you want, it's all just bonus stuff at that point.
Tanaan Jungle was a catch up mechanic... it was never intended to be anything more. Timeless Isle and Isle of Thunder... ditto. In a nutshell, everything is a loot piñata by design because the belief is, you just pressed the instant 90 or instant 100 button and now need to get gear to raid the current (as in last tier) of content.
Legion is probably their worst expansion yet. Everyone has the same damn weapon per class. No matter what *path* you choose, the end result is the same. Should I spend my artifact points here or here? Doesn't matter... in the end you will have all of them. Should I start in Aszuna or elsewhere? Doesn't matter, the rewards and zone match whatever level you are. So you could be level 100 and someone else could be level 110 and you will do the same quests and the mobs will be as daft or as challenging for them as they are for you. You have zero sense that you are getting more powerful as you level because everything stays the same.
The mission table is annoying as hell... you have to keep coming back to your table to do your class quests through it... then you have to fly back to where you were to continue your questing. WoD wasn't so dependent on you doing anything in the garrison, it was a choice. In Legion it's mandatory.
I mean, I thought Cata was crap and Mop a close second... but Legion is by far worse. WoD was actually more entertaining than Legion is. I don't see people playing this nearly as long as they did WoD.
WoD was a pile of festering excrement. Legion is better by such a large margin that it's hardly worth the comparison. The time commitment for the mission table is minimal also. And now you can do it from your phone or tablet. The final five missions that you get for the class campaign are generally 12+ hour missions so it's not like you're running back to the table every hour. And once you finish the class campaign you're free to do missions whenever you want, it's all just bonus stuff at that point.
WoD started off strong. I still think garrisons were a good idea executed poorly due to being rushed out, and instead of expanding on them and adding new features that people actually wanted (like architectural style choices), they just kept adding to the stupid facebook game aspects until it became a bloated mess. Story wise it also started out strong, especially for the zone stories, but damn did it get bad later. The storyline involving Khadgar and Gul'dan trying to outwit each other was very entertaining, but the rest... let's just say between WoD and D3's craptacular writing, I gave the news of Metzen's departure a standing ovation. The guy was the crown prince of retcons, cliches, and dialogue of almost George Lucas levels of absolute failure. He's the Stephanie Meyer or E.L. James of video game writing, and while I wish him and his family well, I hope he never, ever gets a job writing fiction again.
Legion is fun so far, but time will tell. Blizzard definitely seems to have learned from their massive mistakes in WoD, and I hope they continue to demonstrate this going forward. I like the weapons (hoping for more visual customization down the line), I like the massively scaled-down mission table (a manageable amount of champions, and generic troops to lessen fretting over which to have active by providing a set bonus), I love the world quests (need more variety though), and the writing has been fairly strong as well (a definite sense that Cataclysm's changes will seem minuscule by the time Legion's story ends). It's not WoD 2.0 in the slightest, at least not yet, and hopefully it never will be.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
Comments
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I am playing the game because I have friends that still play wow that talked me into it. I found the leveling pretty undesirable as I hate questing and being told what to do in what is supposed to be a virtual world. I didn't play WoD much so I can't really speak to garrisons and how much you were required to sit in them. I know I rarely visit my class hall as it requires travel for not much benefit. Also they barely give you enough followers initially to do much of anything.
Ultimately I'm temporarily playing this game for the group items like dungeons with guildies and that is still there and kinda fun.
So you didn't play any of the Legion content but somehow know it's like WoD?
I don't care about heroics or raids or pvp so my fun is waning now that I'm done with all unlocked quests. I'm simply MMO'd out really
I didn't get an answer yesterday so I just checked and it LOOKS like Jewelcrafting is fixed. Ok, that might mean I play it sooner rather than later. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing for me.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Artifact weapons and the way progression works in Legion kills the idea of playing multiple specs or alts. Artifact weapon grinding means that you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage leveling another weapon alongside the one for your main spec. Because of the faction requirement for world quests, all characters have to do pretty much all quests in every zone in order to get the appropriate faction to start world quests at lvl 110 which kills the idea of lvling by PvP or by dungeons.
Ever since Cataclysm WoW feels less like it has been designed by Blizzard and more like it has been designed by all the people who tried to develop WoW killers in the past and failed miserably. Blizzard is killing their own game.
Legion vs Warlords there are pros and cons, and def some similarities but as a xpac, it's an improvement on some of the systems introduced in WOD.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
The OP doesn't like parts of WoW and wants everyone to know while insulting those that do.
A good game game is doing stuff mindlessly for 1000000000000000000x , and THEN you can have real fun.
And burn out as there is nothing to do.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Legion is probably their worst expansion yet. Everyone has the same damn weapon per class. No matter what *path* you choose, the end result is the same. Should I spend my artifact points here or here? Doesn't matter... in the end you will have all of them. Should I start in Aszuna or elsewhere? Doesn't matter, the rewards and zone match whatever level you are. So you could be level 100 and someone else could be level 110 and you will do the same quests and the mobs will be as daft or as challenging for them as they are for you. You have zero sense that you are getting more powerful as you level because everything stays the same.
The mission table is annoying as hell... you have to keep coming back to your table to do your class quests through it... then you have to fly back to where you were to continue your questing. WoD wasn't so dependent on you doing anything in the garrison, it was a choice. In Legion it's mandatory.
I mean, I thought Cata was crap and Mop a close second... but Legion is by far worse. WoD was actually more entertaining than Legion is. I don't see people playing this nearly as long as they did WoD.
Legion is fun so far, but time will tell. Blizzard definitely seems to have learned from their massive mistakes in WoD, and I hope they continue to demonstrate this going forward. I like the weapons (hoping for more visual customization down the line), I like the massively scaled-down mission table (a manageable amount of champions, and generic troops to lessen fretting over which to have active by providing a set bonus), I love the world quests (need more variety though), and the writing has been fairly strong as well (a definite sense that Cataclysm's changes will seem minuscule by the time Legion's story ends). It's not WoD 2.0 in the slightest, at least not yet, and hopefully it never will be.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic