Blizzard continues to add new persistent world zones with the introduction of expansion content like Legion as well, even persistent collaborative world events. So not quite.
So? Don't tell me most of the players are not shepherding towards the latest tier of H dungeons & raids.
That is an attempt to evade the point that the game world is built very differently than a lobby game or virtual lobby, and there is a much broader amount of stuff to still do in the likes of a game like WoW, including new content that continues to be added exclusive to the game world.
One example being that elder god styled world boss that popped up with the expansion.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Blizzard continues to add new persistent world zones with the introduction of expansion content like Legion as well, even persistent collaborative world events. So not quite.
So? Don't tell me most of the players are not shepherding towards the latest tier of H dungeons & raids.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying path of least resistance?
I am saying, for better or for worse, most gameplay of WOW is inside instances. Whether it is the path of least resistance, or the path of most fun .. is irrelevant. Persistent world is pretty much irrelevant to most games, except may be Eve, which is a very niche game.
moba,s are cheap to make fake mmos with nothing but team verse team and a few maps they are one of the worst things to come to the mmo market ever and to many games with good ideals fail due to limiting themselves to being a moba were if they spent the time and money on making a decent mmo with the same ideas they would rock.
Blizzard continues to add new persistent world zones with the introduction of expansion content like Legion as well, even persistent collaborative world events. So not quite.
So? Don't tell me most of the players are not shepherding towards the latest tier of H dungeons & raids.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying path of least resistance?
I am saying, for better or for worse, most gameplay of WOW is inside instances. Whether it is the path of least resistance, or the path of most fun .. is irrelevant. Persistent world is pretty much irrelevant to most games, except may be Eve, which is a very niche game.
Your gibberish was extra gibberishy so I had to ask what your blathering was about.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Essentially the first MOBA were literally scaled back RTS mods. I have been trying to figure out the connect to being a MMO. I guess it's just the demographics.
I don't consider ANY MOBA to be anything more the a multiplayer RTS. I really think it has to do with some publishers wishing to broaden their marketing and reclassifying their games. I would suppose that this goes with some of the gaming press falling into the trap of falsely reporting MOBA's as MMO's. Also, sites such as this one that sometime refer to MOBA's as if they were MMO's.
Ur question seems rhetorical to me so yeah i agree moba's arent mmo games.I think i would find more interensting the asnwers in a thread for fully instanced multiplayer rpg's that called themselves mmo's.
moba,s are cheap to make fake mmos with nothing but team verse team and a few maps they are one of the worst things to come to the mmo market ever and to many games with good ideals fail due to limiting themselves to being a moba were if they spent the time and money on making a decent mmo with the same ideas they would rock.
worst things? May be to you.
I am sure 100M of LoL players will disagree. It is funny to see how people think that games that they don't like are "worst things to come to the market".
MMO's to me are a lot of people in the same instance or game world. MOBA's do not fit into that. A game like DayZ blurs the lines a bit because it fan fit 50+ people in the same game world.
But I would never call a game like DayZ or H1Z1 and MMO, just simply acknowledging the grey area.
I've experienced the opposite: shimming MOBA's into the RTS genre when I'm trying to find RTS games is really annoying and rather common outside of MMO's. I think both RTS and MMO are being used because MOBA is an emerging genre, and the marketing was geared towards what people know, which is RTS/MMO. I'd rather people and companies stick with MOBA, and avoid any references to RTS/MMO, as it doesn't fit into either genre. I can see why a MOBA can be considered a one unit RTS, but with games like Smite be developed, it's definitely become its own genre.
Blizzard continues to add new persistent world zones with the introduction of expansion content like Legion as well, even persistent collaborative world events. So not quite.
So? Don't tell me most of the players are not shepherding towards the latest tier of H dungeons & raids.
What do you mean by that? Are you saying path of least resistance?
I am saying, for better or for worse, most gameplay of WOW is inside instances. Whether it is the path of least resistance, or the path of most fun .. is irrelevant. Persistent world is pretty much irrelevant to most games, except may be Eve, which is a very niche game.
Millions in WoW un-sub when they exhaust the persistent world content. Other MMORPG's lose their populations when the persistent world content is exhausted.
When there is nothing left for one to do in the persistent world, is when it seems a very significant portion if not most quit.
I believe the irrelevancy of the persistent world is a figment of your imagination.
Not to mention it's only a small segment of the userbase that actually engages in current end-game raids actively (~20% or less if you follow the achievement tracking in WoW).
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Millions in WoW un-sub when they exhaust the persistent world content. Other MMORPG's lose their populations when the persistent world content is exhausted.
and millions buy wow expansion when such new content is released. It has nothing to do with persistency of the world .. it has to do with if there is fun content.
In fact, most time spent in WOW is on instanced content. When those are done, people leave.
If persistency is such a big deal, hybrid MMOs like Destiny & The Division, and action RPGs like Diablo would not be so popular.
Aside from Eve, is there even a game where most content is still in a persistent world? (And don't count the single player open world games .. they are a completely different animal).
Not to mention it's only a small segment of the userbase that actually engages in current end-game raids actively (~20% or less if you follow the achievement tracking in WoW).
but you fail to count instanced dungeons, and instanced pvp game modes.
Millions in WoW un-sub when they exhaust the persistent world content. Other MMORPG's lose their populations when the persistent world content is exhausted.
and millions buy wow expansion when such new content is released. It has nothing to do with persistency of the world .. it has to do with if there is fun content.
In fact, most time spent in WOW is on instanced content. When those are done, people leave.
If persistency is such a big deal, hybrid MMOs like Destiny & The Division, and action RPGs like Diablo would not be so popular.
Aside from Eve, is there even a game where most content is still in a persistent world? (And don't count the single player open world games .. they are a completely different animal).
Remove the persistent world and watch what happens to WoW's sub numbers then.
Could Destiny, The Division and Diablo survive with a $15 per month subscription? I couldn't answer that question, but I know WoW with a persistent world sure can.
Not to mention it's only a small segment of the userbase that actually engages in current end-game raids actively (~20% or less if you follow the achievement tracking in WoW).
but you fail to count instanced dungeons, and instanced pvp game modes.
...You do understand neither of those exist inside an end-game raid right?
Instanced dungeons are mostly leveling activities, and PvP at end-game again only accounts for a fraction of the player-base.
This argument is moot.
EDIT: Also, love how Loktofeit(Lynx) is continuing to troll on in the background there. You'd think his named account being perma-banned would have made him stop, guess he's just relegated himself to more subtle behavior on his old one.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Not to mention it's only a small segment of the userbase that actually engages in current end-game raids actively (~20% or less if you follow the achievement tracking in WoW).
but you fail to count instanced dungeons, and instanced pvp game modes.
...You do understand neither of those exist inside an end-game raid right?
So? ... H dungeons are instanced pvp are max level, end-game activities, are they not?
End-game activity that takes place in finite volume from limited reward options (which is technically the same for raids, but raids are usually tougher to complete). You play those to get what's there and then move on, that's not going to maintain any form of longevity.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
End-game activity that takes place in finite volume from limited reward options (which is technically the same for raids, but raids are usually tougher to complete). You play those to get what's there and then move on, that's not going to maintain any form of longevity.
Now you are raising a tangent to deflect the point. Who says anything about longevity? People left when wow runs out of content (including raids) and came back when there is more.
The point is that these content has nothing to do with persistent worlds. Persistency is totally irrelevant with these end-game content that Blizz refreshes again and again.
In fact, if you have to try to confuse the issue, you probably don't have an argument of why persistent world is relevant to these specific end-game content, whether they are designed for longevity or not.
End-game activity that takes place in finite volume from limited reward options (which is technically the same for raids, but raids are usually tougher to complete). You play those to get what's there and then move on, that's not going to maintain any form of longevity.
Now you are raising a tangent to deflect the point. Who says anything about longevity? People left when wow runs out of content (including raids) and came back when there is more.
The point is that these content has nothing to do with persistent worlds. Persistency is totally irrelevant with these end-game content that Blizz refreshes again and again.
In fact, if you have to try to confuse the issue, you probably don't have an argument of why persistent world is relevant to these specific end-game content, whether they are designed for longevity or not.
Before my commentary is when it was about longevity, when the point about what content is dominantly consumed by the users was made and the subsequent drop-off that happens after that primary source of content is depleted. Nothing changed about that conversation, I simply used a phrase that encapsulates the concept (the longevity, IE life-span, of a game dies out as people stop consuming the primary resources for content). I apologize if words confuse you, but it's not that complicated to understand so you have no excuse for acting confused.
The point, was that the content you are talking about is not the major form of content consumed by players. PvP, end-game dungeons, and end-game raids are all things that are consumed by a small fraction of the player base (which is easily confirmed by looking up achievement/completion statistics).
Couple that with the fact that the current dailies system is tied to doing quests in the persistent open world space, and you are left with a situation where the game is very much resting on the continued interest of the consumer in it's persistent MMO feature-set for their entertainment.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The point, was that the content you are talking about is not the major form of content consumed by players. PvP, end-game dungeons, and end-game raids are all things that are consumed by a small fraction of the player base (which is easily confirmed by looking up achievement/completion statistics).
You mean like this one that shows that some LFR bosses are killed by 70% of the players? Thank you for making my points, unless 70% is a "small fraction" by your definition.
It has everything to do with the media (reporters) and player base totals. It has nothing to do with game world and persistence. MOBA have over 1 Million registered users, to a reporter that alone gets MOBAs called MMOs. Player know that the game only supports less than 100 at a time, but reports don't care.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Comments
One example being that elder god styled world boss that popped up with the expansion.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I am saying, for better or for worse, most gameplay of WOW is inside instances. Whether it is the path of least resistance, or the path of most fun .. is irrelevant. Persistent world is pretty much irrelevant to most games, except may be Eve, which is a very niche game.
Your gibberish was extra gibberishy so I had to ask what your blathering was about.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I don't consider ANY MOBA to be anything more the a multiplayer RTS. I really think it has to do with some publishers wishing to broaden their marketing and reclassifying their games. I would suppose that this goes with some of the gaming press falling into the trap of falsely reporting MOBA's as MMO's. Also, sites such as this one that sometime refer to MOBA's as if they were MMO's.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I am sure 100M of LoL players will disagree. It is funny to see how people think that games that they don't like are "worst things to come to the market".
But I would never call a game like DayZ or H1Z1 and MMO, just simply acknowledging the grey area.
I think both RTS and MMO are being used because MOBA is an emerging genre, and the marketing was geared towards what people know, which is RTS/MMO. I'd rather people and companies stick with MOBA, and avoid any references to RTS/MMO, as it doesn't fit into either genre.
I can see why a MOBA can be considered a one unit RTS, but with games like Smite be developed, it's definitely become its own genre.
?played: Nearly everything.
?waiting: *Darkfall*, Hero''s Journey
Millions in WoW un-sub when they exhaust the persistent world content. Other MMORPG's lose their populations when the persistent world content is exhausted.
When there is nothing left for one to do in the persistent world, is when it seems a very significant portion if not most quit.
I believe the irrelevancy of the persistent world is a figment of your imagination.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
In fact, most time spent in WOW is on instanced content. When those are done, people leave.
If persistency is such a big deal, hybrid MMOs like Destiny & The Division, and action RPGs like Diablo would not be so popular.
Aside from Eve, is there even a game where most content is still in a persistent world? (And don't count the single player open world games .. they are a completely different animal).
Could Destiny, The Division and Diablo survive with a $15 per month subscription? I couldn't answer that question, but I know WoW with a persistent world sure can.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Instanced dungeons are mostly leveling activities, and PvP at end-game again only accounts for a fraction of the player-base.
This argument is moot.
EDIT: Also, love how Loktofeit(Lynx) is continuing to troll on in the background there. You'd think his named account being perma-banned would have made him stop, guess he's just relegated himself to more subtle behavior on his old one.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
The point is that these content has nothing to do with persistent worlds. Persistency is totally irrelevant with these end-game content that Blizz refreshes again and again.
In fact, if you have to try to confuse the issue, you probably don't have an argument of why persistent world is relevant to these specific end-game content, whether they are designed for longevity or not.
The point, was that the content you are talking about is not the major form of content consumed by players. PvP, end-game dungeons, and end-game raids are all things that are consumed by a small fraction of the player base (which is easily confirmed by looking up achievement/completion statistics).
Couple that with the fact that the current dailies system is tied to doing quests in the persistent open world space, and you are left with a situation where the game is very much resting on the continued interest of the consumer in it's persistent MMO feature-set for their entertainment.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
You mean like this one that shows that some LFR bosses are killed by 70% of the players? Thank you for making my points, unless 70% is a "small fraction" by your definition.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.