Not surprising, Shroud of the Avatar just reached $10,000,000 in funding and I think they only asked for $1,000,000 originally though I know Richard Garriot has invested his own money into the project too. They did say quite some time ago they were funded well through the release of episode 1 though. I don't know if they knew they would need more money or if they would have managed without it.
I do agree it is a bit disingenuous if they knew upfront they'd still need more funding and not be upfront about that. They could have stated "this is the first round of funding to get the project off the ground but we will continue to need additional revenue afterwards to continue the project..."
Anyone backing a game on Kickstarter really should understand there is no guarentees. The same thing happens with games funded through traditional methods, how many MMOs have we seen never come to fruition? Somebody paid money to get that project going and lost out.
A lot of people seem to look at Kickstarter as a sort of guarentees pre-order and that is just not the case at all. I said before myself I was shocked this game thought they could pull all this off with such a little budget. But people defended it saying they had a lot of the tech and work done etc. hopefully this doesn't turn off too many of the current backers, as I know with SOTA much of the continued funding game from original backers increasing their pledges as time went on.
I went from a $45 pledge in the beginning to a $1,600 pledge and at least another $1,000 more. And I have no regrets personally, the game is far from perfect but we have a great community and amazing dev team. I have more fun and logged more hours in SOTA than any of the many many MMOs I have played.
So I want to tell all the Elyria backers don't write off the project so quickly. If you believe it in it, and believe in the developers give them your support.
The fact is that I've been in software development and this isn't unique to gaming developers. Almost every project I ever worked on (not the programming side), was more expensive than anticipated. Come to think of it, even non software related. There are always issues, modifications to plans, etc.
Wow man, 2500 for a game you havent played yet and you have no regrets? I'd usually reserve that type of money for an investment, a stock, a bond even a crappy CD with little to no return rate. I would never invest it in a game that couldn't manage to do something as simple as selling shares of itself by forming a proper company. Then at least you can get a return on your investment instead of just a feeling of " yeah i helped donate to get this game off the ground that I can someday play and see if I like it."
Whatever happened to profit sharing? I may donate to some charities I enjoy but they have a working model in advance. Investing should be done with a show of a proper business model and percentage of return should the investment pan out. Not gifts to see if people can turn an idea into something thats sort of neat.
As long as people continue to throw large amounts of money at companies with barely more than a basic business model it will hurt the gaming industry.
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
I think it's news because that's not clear from their kickstarter page. Though it does indicate that they were to continue funding through their own website after the kickstarter was done.
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where they could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a
studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this
instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent
answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If one is going to interface with one's player base, with the people who gave them money as well, they are going to have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If the head of the company isn't the person to do that then they should get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If they can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to their player base.
Part of having a company is public relations.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
I think it's news because that's not clear from your kickstarter page. Though it does indicate that you were to continue funding through your own website after the kickstarter was done.
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that your the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where you could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a
studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this
instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent
answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If you are going to interface with your player base, with the people who gave you money as well, you have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If you aren't the person to do that then get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If you can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to your player base.
Part of having a company is public relations.
Lol its important to note that LackingMMO isn't on the staff (I dont think). He was just quoting what was said back in May. But it is more news I suppose since the CEO posted this stuff yesterday on their Kickstarter and although they have not said that they will open another kickstarter (yet), they still want more pledges which was very clear.
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
I think it's news because that's not clear from your kickstarter page. Though it does indicate that you were to continue funding through your own website after the kickstarter was done.
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that your the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where you could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a
studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this
instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent
answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If you are going to interface with your player base, with the people who gave you money as well, you have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If you aren't the person to do that then get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If you can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to your player base.
Literally, the 30 minutes I spent answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things. But when the community "demands a response," what choice do we have?
Hey at least we now have something to link to any other skeptics who come through with the same concerns.
And it goes on like this.. in what kind of wala wala world do these people live to feel that Caspian "wrecked" the guy with his concerns?
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
I think it's news because that's not clear from your kickstarter page. Though it does indicate that you were to continue funding through your own website after the kickstarter was done.
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that your the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where you could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a
studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this
instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent
answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If you are going to interface with your player base, with the people who gave you money as well, you have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If you aren't the person to do that then get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If you can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to your player base.
Part of having a company is public relations.
Lol its important to note that LackingMMO isn't on the staff (I dont think). He was just quoting what was said back in May. But it is more news I suppose since the CEO posted this stuff yesterday on their Kickstarter and although they have not said that they will open another kickstarter (yet), they still want more pledges which was very clear.
Thanks for making the clarification. I'll edit the post to reflect that.
Post edited by Sovrath on
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
900K was probably an amount some study said this would be the only amount the could safely reach otherwise the money would go back to the backers and this game wouldn't of happened. so they ran with the 900k and now the bakers are faced with this dilemma. chase the money, or spend months seeking a refund. tsk tsk
VCs - being asked to back a project that may or may not come to fruition - will (reasonably) be looking for a "reasonable chance" to get a return on their investment. So they will want details along with expected timescales, risks, ETC/EACs and so forth.
And "a decent percentage of the studios time" is going to be spent answering the VCs questions as well. And - I suspect - providing them with regular updates as well.
So what is lacking on the KS is proper information for the ..... pre-VC backers ... as to what they are getting into. For very little return. And no appreciation that the KS backers are actually pre-VC funders.
I find it hilarious that people complain that the biggest thing thats wrong with the big AAA MMOs is that they are controlled by the "bean counters." That they are not being made with "passion."
Now, we learn that one those MMOs that was being made with "passion" is in financial trouble and all people can say is "where were the bean counters?"
Newsflash, MMOs are not charities. Passion alone is never enough. Theres a reason why the big successful MMOs have good "bean counters."
I think you don't understand the context. Ex: devs want to make a game with two factions and four races per faction. They want to create one starter zone for each race making for a total of eight starter zones. Bean Counter suggests there should be the minimum number of starting zones. Devs respond by saying how about one starter zone per faction. Bean counter says can you make it just one, instanced by faction?
Don't focus on the starting zones but what is really going on. Minimal game worlds.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
" The reality is that..." that they have no idea what they're doing, and they want others to foot the bill for it.
Now anyone that feels compelled to contest that, realize you're defending a company that siad "give us 900k and we'll make this for you" and they are now saying "wait, it's going to cost $2-3 million on top of that... we think. Give us more."
I don't think it is that bad because i look at simple math.
2-3 million would be about a full year worth of game development for a small team.Since we have so little from this game so far,i would think it needs at least anotehr full year,so imo expectations are quite ok.
Chris Roberts has 120 million and has nowhere near even 1/10th that to show for all that money.He has been WASTING a shit ton of money,so to think these guys need 2-3 million to complete the game and not leech investors/gamers for several more years like Robert's has been doing ,sound perfectly legit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
VCs - being asked to back a project that may or may bot come to fruition - will (reasonably) be looking for a "reasonable chance" to get a return on their investment. So they will want details along with expected timescales, risks, ETC/EACs and so forth.
And "a decent percentage of the studios time" is going to be spent answering the VCs questions as well. And - I suspect - providing them with regular updates as well.
So what is lacking on the KS is proper information for the ..... pre-VC backers ... as to what they are getting into. For very little return. And no appreciation that the KS backers are actually pre-VC funders.
Well, to put it in perspective, the head of our entire company, a several billion dollar company, just did a round of meetings to meet with investors and potential investors. These meetings were essentially presenting the company and then answering a lot of questions, some from people who keep coming to these meetings but never invest a dime. Apparently they do have ideas that the company should follow though.
And this was a global tour. Not just in one company.
So if the head of a large company feels the need to spend his time meeting with people in order to raise awareness/get investing, I don't see why the head of a fledgling company should feel that he has better things to do.
Especially when there are misunderstandings that could very well affect his company negatively.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
They are gonna by far need more than 2-3mil more. Whoever is trying to figure the math for this needs to be fired and rehire someone with a realistic outlook on what it is going to cost.
Whoever is doing the math is doing it just right.
If the Kickstarter fails, you'll have to shut down the company and you've lost everything.
If the Kickstarter succeeds, you don't need to risk any more of your own money. Instead you can pay yourself a good salary for being CEO while you work on your dream project for another year.
Even if successful Kickstarter would mean you'd get only 5% chance of being able to get additional funding to create the game, that extra 5% chance is worth taking when compared to 0% chance.
From business point of view, the only reason to set your Kickstarter aim higher is if you believe it'll actually bring your Kickstarter more backer money. Otherwise set it low and let other people take insane risks with their money. You won't lose anything.
I find it hard to believe anyone thought they could make they game with all the features touted with only the money raised with the Kickstarter. There's little chance they make it and include everything they promised with even $20 million, let alone with less than $10 million.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
You just get the feeling this game is going to be a cheap looking MMO...I dont see how they are going to pull off anything decent with what they are prposing and what they have to make it with.
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
I think it's news because that's not clear from your kickstarter page. Though it does indicate that you were to continue funding through your own website after the kickstarter was done.
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that your the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where you could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a
studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this
instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent
answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If you are going to interface with your player base, with the people who gave you money as well, you have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If you aren't the person to do that then get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If you can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to your player base.
Part of having a company is public relations.
Lol its important to note that LackingMMO isn't on the staff (I dont think). He was just quoting what was said back in May. But it is more news I suppose since the CEO posted this stuff yesterday on their Kickstarter and although they have not said that they will open another kickstarter (yet), they still want more pledges which was very clear.
LOL, no do not work for this company. Didn't fund this game but have been following it. Ill buy the game when its closer to release or if it shapes up good then ill buy in beta. Ive thought about putting money into but go back and forth with it.
I do agree though, the devs answer questions pretty straight forward but get a little testy with some of the answers they give.
Yeah... I think when a game has costs in the millions then you DON'T go to crowdfunding but rather other major investors whom expect a return on the millions they would invest into the game. Asking that much without consequence on crowdfunding platforms is DANGEROUS to the customer and the the industry.
Pay the baker a fee to bake the bread you gonna buy..
If no one made the type of bread I wanted, I would pay them for the ingredients and their time before getting it, sure. Why not? What's the option? To only eat bread I don't like?
Look, the mainstream market is done with making AAA MMORPGS. The VCs have moved on to the next fad. The genre is once more niche and unfashionable. The only way I am going to see the game I want to be made is through crowdfunding. I am happy to support concepts and projects that offer me what I am looking for.
It has worked great so far for me in other gaming genres, some of my favourite games of the last few years have been crowdfunded. I haven't put into a MMORPG yet, but I suspect that I will support Pantheon soon based on the progress that they are making and the community interaction of the team.
It might not be edgy or hip to like crowdfunding right now, but without it this genre is dead man walking.
It might not be edgy or hip to like crowdfunding right now, but without it this genre is dead man walking.
And "that's the thing" or why this sort of irks me ... every time there is a misstep, every time a small team mmo "messes up" or is not clear or can't deliver is another reason for people to distrust kickstarted projects.
And this seems to be mostly an "mmo" issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It might not be edgy or hip to like crowdfunding right now, but without it this genre is dead man walking.
And "that's the thing" or why this sort of irks me ... every time there is a misstep, every time a small team mmo "messes up" or is not clear or can't deliver is another reason for people to distrust kickstarted projects.
And this seems to be mostly an "mmo" issue.
Everyone should absolutely be skeptical about crowdfunding an MMO. But yes, that doesn't mean that we should all abandon crowdfunding of games entirely.
Comments
I do agree it is a bit disingenuous if they knew upfront they'd still need more funding and not be upfront about that. They could have stated "this is the first round of funding to get the project off the ground but we will continue to need additional revenue afterwards to continue the project..."
Anyone backing a game on Kickstarter really should understand there is no guarentees. The same thing happens with games funded through traditional methods, how many MMOs have we seen never come to fruition? Somebody paid money to get that project going and lost out.
A lot of people seem to look at Kickstarter as a sort of guarentees pre-order and that is just not the case at all. I said before myself I was shocked this game thought they could pull all this off with such a little budget. But people defended it saying they had a lot of the tech and work done etc. hopefully this doesn't turn off too many of the current backers, as I know with SOTA much of the continued funding game from original backers increasing their pledges as time went on.
I went from a $45 pledge in the beginning to a $1,600 pledge and at least another $1,000 more. And I have no regrets personally, the game is far from perfect but we have a great community and amazing dev team. I have more fun and logged more hours in SOTA than any of the many many MMOs I have played.
So I want to tell all the Elyria backers don't write off the project so quickly. If you believe it in it, and believe in the developers give them your support.
I self identify as a monkey.
Whatever happened to profit sharing? I may donate to some charities I enjoy but they have a working model in advance. Investing should be done with a show of a proper business model and percentage of return should the investment pan out. Not gifts to see if people can turn an idea into something thats sort of neat.
As long as people continue to throw large amounts of money at companies with barely more than a basic business model it will hurt the gaming industry.
"My last concern is that the numbers don't add up. SBS asked for $900K and said that would get them to full release in 2017
We've repeatedly said that's not the case. We've said $900k is all we need from Kickstarter. We have every intention of going for a Series A round of funding in the spring, and will use the next round of funding to get the game out the door. The seed round of funding, is, as stated, to get to a fully working game that can be shown to VCs."
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/7030/no-longer-backing-coe?page=5#post71247
This has been discussed before, no idea why this is "news"
But maybe it wasn't clear to people who gave money through kickstarter that the 900K (or 1,361,000+) was just to get the game to a state where they could get more funding.
Additionally, regarding this bit:
"As a last bit of advice, you may consider that a large percentage of a studios' time is spent answering unsubstantiated threads like this instead of working on the game itself. Literally, the 30 minutes I spent answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things."
If one is going to interface with one's player base, with the people who gave them money as well, they are going to have to spend time answering threads. That's part of "game development". If the head of the company isn't the person to do that then they should get someone whose job it is to answer those threads. If they can't pay them then get a passionate person who gave money and who can be professional and articulate/present news and ideas to their player base.
Part of having a company is public relations.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Literally, the 30 minutes I spent answering this thread was time not spent doing more important things. But when the community "demands a response," what choice do we have?
Hey at least we now have something to link to any other skeptics who come through with the same concerns.
And it goes on like this.. in what kind of wala wala world do these people live to feel that Caspian "wrecked" the guy with his concerns?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
VCs - being asked to back a project that may or may not come to fruition - will (reasonably) be looking for a "reasonable chance" to get a return on their investment. So they will want details along with expected timescales, risks, ETC/EACs and so forth.
And "a decent percentage of the studios time" is going to be spent answering the VCs questions as well. And - I suspect - providing them with regular updates as well.
So what is lacking on the KS is proper information for the ..... pre-VC backers ... as to what they are getting into. For very little return. And no appreciation that the KS backers are actually pre-VC funders.
I think you don't understand the context. Ex: devs want to make a game with two factions and four races per faction. They want to create one starter zone for each race making for a total of eight starter zones. Bean Counter suggests there should be the minimum number of starting zones. Devs respond by saying how about one starter zone per faction. Bean counter says can you make it just one, instanced by faction?
Don't focus on the starting zones but what is really going on. Minimal game worlds.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
2-3 million would be about a full year worth of game development for a small team.Since we have so little from this game so far,i would think it needs at least anotehr full year,so imo expectations are quite ok.
Chris Roberts has 120 million and has nowhere near even 1/10th that to show for all that money.He has been WASTING a shit ton of money,so to think these guys need 2-3 million to complete the game and not leech investors/gamers for several more years like Robert's has been doing ,sound perfectly legit.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
And this was a global tour. Not just in one company.
So if the head of a large company feels the need to spend his time meeting with people in order to raise awareness/get investing, I don't see why the head of a fledgling company should feel that he has better things to do.
Especially when there are misunderstandings that could very well affect his company negatively.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If the Kickstarter fails, you'll have to shut down the company and you've lost everything.
If the Kickstarter succeeds, you don't need to risk any more of your own money. Instead you can pay yourself a good salary for being CEO while you work on your dream project for another year.
Even if successful Kickstarter would mean you'd get only 5% chance of being able to get additional funding to create the game, that extra 5% chance is worth taking when compared to 0% chance.
From business point of view, the only reason to set your Kickstarter aim higher is if you believe it'll actually bring your Kickstarter more backer money. Otherwise set it low and let other people take insane risks with their money. You won't lose anything.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
LOL, no do not work for this company. Didn't fund this game but have been following it. Ill buy the game when its closer to release or if it shapes up good then ill buy in beta. Ive thought about putting money into but go back and forth with it.
I do agree though, the devs answer questions pretty straight forward but get a little testy with some of the answers they give.
If no one made the type of bread I wanted, I would pay them for the ingredients and their time before getting it, sure. Why not? What's the option? To only eat bread I don't like?
Look, the mainstream market is done with making AAA MMORPGS. The VCs have moved on to the next fad. The genre is once more niche and unfashionable. The only way I am going to see the game I want to be made is through crowdfunding. I am happy to support concepts and projects that offer me what I am looking for.
It has worked great so far for me in other gaming genres, some of my favourite games of the last few years have been crowdfunded. I haven't put into a MMORPG yet, but I suspect that I will support Pantheon soon based on the progress that they are making and the community interaction of the team.
It might not be edgy or hip to like crowdfunding right now, but without it this genre is dead man walking.
And this seems to be mostly an "mmo" issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo