All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
I mean how dare they list the exact cost of things!
Hey DMKano, so are you currently playing LOTRO?
Can you tell me how these prices would stack up to in game items?
For example lets say I get the base pack, at 700 (Points).
What does that get you in game?
So are you complaining about a video game you don't even play? That makes this post even more cringe worthy.
I've played Lotro in the past, but when it was a B2P model. I wont play a F2P that doesnt have obvious pricing thats easy for the consumer to understand. Its not worth my money and its shady.
The reason I was asking DMKano was because he was saying the prices are clear, yet you can only see what the Points get you if you access the game, their store page isnt available online.
Thats another huge point.
To me its very poor form for a F2P game NOT allowing you access to the online store outside the game.
A good example would be similar to how Elder Scrolls online does it with their Crowns system Where you can access the Crown Store from the internet at any time, or on your home console.
The points are laid out simple and easy to understand, and the prices of items and buffs are given in an easy to understand method.
Again Lotro is just a cringe-inducing money grab. There's nothing more to it.
wait so your complaint is actually - the store is only available when you are in game?
This is what you are upset about - and this whole thread is about this single issue?
Not at all, if you see the OP its about the presentation of the points being very "Cringe-inducing" with "Bonus Points" and an overly complicated lay-out that tells very little about what your actually getting. The post your referencing is just another part of the poorly designed system they have.
Below you said I was trying to argue "Value" which im not, and above your saying my OP was about something entirely different. Unfortunately im not trying to do either, so Im not sure what point your getting at?
I mean how dare they list the exact cost of things!
Hey DMKano, so are you currently playing LOTRO?
Can you tell me how these prices would stack up to in game items?
For example lets say I get the base pack, at 700 (Points).
What does that get you in game?
Those questions are irrelevant - as you are trying to argue "VALUE" which is a nebulous thing and varies from person to person.
I mean who am I to argue someone spending $1000 dollars on a shirt signed by Justin Bieber? If someone finds it worth that - it's their money - and they see value in it, just because I don't it doesn't mean that it's not worh it to them.
Bottom line remains:
Game companies reserve the right to price their games and in-game products as they see fit - if you don't like it, don't buy or don't play.
Gaming is NOT a human right, there are no Geneva rules violations if a game developer puts expensive items in their cash shop.
I mean how dare they list the exact cost of things!
Hey DMKano, so are you currently playing LOTRO?
Can you tell me how these prices would stack up to in game items?
For example lets say I get the base pack, at 700 (Points).
What does that get you in game?
So are you complaining about a video game you don't even play? That makes this post even more cringe worthy.
I've played Lotro in the past, but when it was a B2P model. I wont play a F2P that doesnt have obvious pricing thats easy for the consumer to understand. Its not worth my money and its shady.
The reason I was asking DMKano was because he was saying the prices are clear, yet you can only see what the Points get you if you access the game, their store page isnt available online.
Thats another huge point.
To me its very poor form for a F2P game NOT allowing you access to the online store outside the game.
A good example would be similar to how Elder Scrolls online does it with their Crowns system Where you can access the Crown Store from the internet at any time, or on your home console.
The points are laid out simple and easy to understand, and the prices of items and buffs are given in an easy to understand method.
Again Lotro is just a cringe-inducing money grab. There's nothing more to it.
Again your OP and every post since is the only thing cringe worthy. Lotro has been mentioned over and over as one of the better f2p model games. It's not lotro fault you can't comprehend their pricing plan or have the mental capacity to download the game for FREE and look in the store. It's clear something happened and you feel lotro hurt your little feelings and you thought I'd show them and make a cringe inducing thread.
Like I said you create this pathetic thread crying about a video game you don't even play...pretty sad little buddy.
Haha its alright man, again I think the way its presented is very poorly done. From an outside perspective it looks shady, and the "Bonus Points" just is way too much cringe for me. Your completely welcome to your opinion, I have no ill feelings towards LOTRO other than what ive posted, which is that they have a bad way of representing the "Deals" they are giving out to people.
It's only "bad" for those who somehow can't understand...it's actually rather easy to understand.
All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
If free to play MMOs are so successful, then why do games like WoW, FFXIV and EVE Online still make so much money? More than most free to play games make. Even GW2 doesn't really make that much money. And sure EVE went "free", but its really still pay to play and a nerfed extended trial. Its free version is more limited than how the limited trial used to be lol, so it really is still pay to play.
So you think being nickel and dimed, and actually have to spend MORE than what people used to pay, is better? If A: Yes that is better, then you are a millennial moron, if B: No that is worse, then you are a hypocrite. Its one of those, which is it?
Most free to play games that used to be pay to play, are actually MORE expensive than if you just paid for it to begin with. Like GW2 there is a ton in the cash shop you have to pay for to unlock content. When usually it used to be just buy an expansion once. Or EVE is just a monthly fee and no further forced paid content.
Like ESO, I can pay 15 dollars for all DLC. Or pay hundred and hundreds of dollars to unlock everything, that I could just pay once a month for.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
If free to play MMOs are so successful, then why do games like WoW, FFXIV and EVE Online still make so much money? More than most free to play games make. Even GW2 doesn't really make that much money. And sure EVE went "free", but its really still pay to play and a nerfed extended trial. Its free version is more limited than how the limited trial used to be lol, so it really is still pay to play.
So you think being nickel and dimed, and actually have to spend MORE than what people used to pay, is better? If A: Yes that is better, then you are a millennial moron, if B: No that is worse, then you are a hypocrite. Its one of those, which is it?
Most free to play games that used to be pay to play, are actually MORE expensive than if you just paid for it to begin with. Like GW2 there is a ton in the cash shop you have to pay for to unlock content. When usually it used to be just buy an expansion once. Or EVE is just a monthly fee and no further forced paid content.
Like ESO, I can pay 15 dollars for all DLC. Or pay hundred and hundreds of dollars to unlock everything, that I could just pay once a month for.
So there can't be more than one successful method?
You are as nickel and dimed as you choose to be.
You spend as much as you choose to. There is no requirement to pay anything upfront ever. It is your completely entirely your choice. Even the option to pay the sub.
Some months a sub makes more sense for me depending on the game. Other months free makes more sense. I'm not obligated to continually paying a certain amount each month to keep playing the game the way I like.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Not at all, if you see the OP its about the presentation of the points being very "Cringe-inducing" with "Bonus Points" and an overly complicated lay-out that tells very little about what your actually getting.
So lets look at the pricing picture you posted:
What is not clear about the pricing?
You get 700 for 7.99, 1950 for 19.99 etc....
It's as clear as day
Even how they got those values is easy to see - base is 500, and the normal bonus is 100, BUT since this is a double bonus sale - you get 200, so 500+200 = 700
But even if you don't want to do this rudimentary math - just look at the RED area I bolded - it's very clear pricing.
Again am I missing something here?
Have you ever seen those "Made for TV" Advertisements?
Where they go "Hey we have this special offer, just for you, act now and youll not only get this Toast-O-Matic, but you also get the Toast-O-Matic Hand Towel ABSOLUTELY FREE!"
Its that level of cringe, the whole "Bonus" is just drummed up to make it seem like your really getting a great deal, its the most basic form of marketing, but people now a days are smarter than that.
Its not the fact that your getting an (X) number of "Bonus" points, its that the "Bonus" points exist at all.
In the base game, and not just for this promotion, you get "500 pts + 100 Bonus Pts".
Again the whole post was just about how cringe that is, its trying way too hard to appeal to peoples wallets and its easy for people to look past.
All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
If free to play MMOs are so successful, then why do games like WoW, FFXIV and EVE Online still make so much money? More than most free to play games make. Even GW2 doesn't really make that much money. And sure EVE went "free", but its really still pay to play and a nerfed extended trial. Its free version is more limited than how the limited trial used to be lol, so it really is still pay to play.
So you think being nickel and dimed, and actually have to spend MORE than what people used to pay, is better? If A: Yes that is better, then you are a millennial moron, if B: No that is worse, then you are a hypocrite. Its one of those, which is it?
Most free to play games that used to be pay to play, are actually MORE expensive than if you just paid for it to begin with. Like GW2 there is a ton in the cash shop you have to pay for to unlock content. When usually it used to be just buy an expansion once. Or EVE is just a monthly fee and no further forced paid content.
Like ESO, I can pay 15 dollars for all DLC. Or pay hundred and hundreds of dollars to unlock everything, that I could just pay once a month for.
So there can't be more than one successful method?
You are as nickel and dimed as you choose to be.
You spend as much as you choose to. There is no requirement to pay anything upfront ever. It is your completely entirely your choice. Even the option to pay the sub.
Some months a sub makes more sense for me depending on the game. Other months free makes more sense. I'm not obligated to continually paying a certain amount each month to keep playing the game the way I like.
The problem is, many times these companies rely on RNG, or loot boxes to entice people in. I don't think LOTRO does (it didn't when I played), though GW2 does and it is a quite common practice. GW2 goes as far as to make the dyes you get random, instead of just buying the dye you want to get. That is a pretty obvious money grubbing maneuver.
Its proven things like that, the vast majority of people get addicted to. That is why there are so many homeless gamblers. Some people of course don't get sucked into that, but at the very most, that is 50% of the people.
Then in BDO, the game is buy to play. And I love BDO and all. But wow are the outfits expensive. One outfit and you could buy a whole bunch of games on sale on steam. Or even pay multiple monthly fees in a subscription game.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
If free to play MMOs are so successful, then why do games like WoW, FFXIV and EVE Online still make so much money? More than most free to play games make. Even GW2 doesn't really make that much money. And sure EVE went "free", but its really still pay to play and a nerfed extended trial. Its free version is more limited than how the limited trial used to be lol, so it really is still pay to play.
So you think being nickel and dimed, and actually have to spend MORE than what people used to pay, is better? If A: Yes that is better, then you are a millennial moron, if B: No that is worse, then you are a hypocrite. Its one of those, which is it?
Most free to play games that used to be pay to play, are actually MORE expensive than if you just paid for it to begin with. Like GW2 there is a ton in the cash shop you have to pay for to unlock content. When usually it used to be just buy an expansion once. Or EVE is just a monthly fee and no further forced paid content.
Like ESO, I can pay 15 dollars for all DLC. Or pay hundred and hundreds of dollars to unlock everything, that I could just pay once a month for.
So there can't be more than one successful method?
You are as nickel and dimed as you choose to be.
You spend as much as you choose to. There is no requirement to pay anything upfront ever. It is your completely entirely your choice. Even the option to pay the sub.
Some months a sub makes more sense for me depending on the game. Other months free makes more sense. I'm not obligated to continually paying a certain amount each month to keep playing the game the way I like.
The problem is, many times these companies rely on RNG, or loot boxes to entice people in. I don't think LOTRO does (it didn't when I played), though GW2 does and it is a quite common practice. GW2 goes as far as to make the dyes you get random, instead of just buying the dye you want to get. That is a pretty obvious money grubbing maneuver.
Its proven things like that, the vast majority of people get addicted to. That is why there are so many homeless gamblers. Some people of course don't get sucked into that, but at the very most, that is 50% of the people.
Then in BDO, the game is buy to play. And I love BDO and all. But wow are the outfits expensive. One outfit and you could buy a whole bunch of games on sale on steam. Or even pay multiple monthly fees in a subscription game.
Actually the vast vast vast majority don't get addicted. If you want to look at real information we are pretty sure that video game addiction exists but there really isn't a lot of study about that either.
However it is clear, as with any gambling, the majority do not get addicted. Far far less than 50%, last research I read it was around 14% of the population is believed to have receptors that are at risk for become disregulated due to things like gamblings. Some studies only show 2-3%.
Of the 80%ish of people that gamble, 14% or 2-3% really isn't a very big number. It is a big enough number to make sure there are controls and treatment for people who need them though.
There is nothing wrong with RNG. People like chance. Virtually every game show in the world relies on some element of chance (not all -- jeapardy, but most).
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Asking for better MMO AI around here is considered "whining". Wanting MMORPGs to not be so nickel and diming people, and which MMOs obviously wanting people addicted to gambling stuff (like RNG dye boxes or RNG loot boxes) to spend hordes of cash. People here just want to see the MMO genre implode, probably to really get back to MMOs being a niche genre. I bet most people here, really actually want to see better MMOs and to do it, the MMO genre needs to implode and be reborn. So they ask for things that make it worse.
Other genres are far more advanced than MMORPGs have become. Like I pointed out in that thread I made that I linked, even games like Ark Survival are more advanced and have better AI and mechanics than most MMOs do. Its why other genres have for most part, overtaken the MMO genre. Especially in terms of how much other genres have evolved, while MMOs are still stagnant. And asking for better MMOs or mechanics, as simple as AI, is again, considered "whining". Same with complaining about the obvious money grubbing cash shops.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
All they have to do is look in this thread and everyone can see those who support the decline of the MMO genre.
Not like when they were huge and successful, and had a straight up fee with no nickel and diming going on.
Oh please the only ones supporting this made up "decline" are those like you who can't accept the genre has passed you by and for the better. People like you are the reason people used to have a bad opinion about online videos it's great online game are leaving those like you in the dust.
If free to play MMOs are so successful, then why do games like WoW, FFXIV and EVE Online still make so much money? More than most free to play games make.
Not at all, if you see the OP its about the presentation of the points being very "Cringe-inducing" with "Bonus Points" and an overly complicated lay-out that tells very little about what your actually getting.
So lets look at the pricing picture you posted:
What is not clear about the pricing?
You get 700 for 7.99, 1950 for 19.99 etc....
It's as clear as day
Even how they got those values is easy to see - base is 500, and the normal bonus is 100, BUT since this is a double bonus sale - you get 200, so 500+200 = 700
But even if you don't want to do this rudimentary math - just look at the RED area I bolded - it's very clear pricing.
Again am I missing something here?
Have you ever seen those "Made for TV" Advertisements?
Where they go "Hey we have this special offer, just for you, act now and youll not only get this Toast-O-Matic, but you also get the Toast-O-Matic Hand Towel ABSOLUTELY FREE!"
Its that level of cringe, the whole "Bonus" is just drummed up to make it seem like your really getting a great deal, its the most basic form of marketing, but people now a days are smarter than that.
Its not the fact that your getting an (X) number of "Bonus" points, its that the "Bonus" points exist at all.
In the base game, and not just for this promotion, you get "500 pts + 100 Bonus Pts".
Again the whole post was just about how cringe that is, its trying way too hard to appeal to peoples wallets and its easy for people to look past.
Bonus points are a very basic marketing strategy that is as old as the hills.
It's what entices players to spend money - this is standard in many cash shops.
Just like buy one get one free - it's the same principle of a bonus to entice the buyer.
Maybe you are new to cash shop monetization, but these are standard practices.
And standard practice = good practice and therefore not worth talking about?
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It doesn't make it bad practice. I don't really find this misleading or sleazy. As stated before. They tell you what you are getting and how much it costs. If you want to find the value, the game is free, go in and look.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Asking for better MMO AI around here is considered "whining". Wanting MMORPGs to not be so nickel and diming people, and which MMOs obviously wanting people addicted to gambling stuff (like RNG dye boxes or RNG loot boxes) to spend hordes of cash. People here just want to see the MMO genre implode, probably to really get back to MMOs being a niche genre. I bet most people here, really actually want to see better MMOs and to do it, the MMO genre needs to implode and be reborn. So they ask for things that make it worse.
Other genres are far more advanced than MMORPGs have become. Like I pointed out in that thread I made that I linked, even games like Ark Survival are more advanced and have better AI and mechanics than most MMOs do. Its why other genres have for most part, overtaken the MMO genre. Especially in terms of how much other genres have evolved, while MMOs are still stagnant. And asking for better MMOs or mechanics, as simple as AI, is again, considered "whining". Same with complaining about the obvious money grubbing cash shops.
Complain all you want.
Just know that you complaining does not mean it is actually a problem.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Asking for better MMO AI around here is considered "whining". Wanting MMORPGs to not be so nickel and diming people, and which MMOs obviously wanting people addicted to gambling stuff (like RNG dye boxes or RNG loot boxes) to spend hordes of cash. People here just want to see the MMO genre implode, probably to really get back to MMOs being a niche genre. I bet most people here, really actually want to see better MMOs and to do it, the MMO genre needs to implode and be reborn. So they ask for things that make it worse.
Other genres are far more advanced than MMORPGs have become. Like I pointed out in that thread I made that I linked, even games like Ark Survival are more advanced and have better AI and mechanics than most MMOs do. Its why other genres have for most part, overtaken the MMO genre. Especially in terms of how much other genres have evolved, while MMOs are still stagnant. And asking for better MMOs or mechanics, as simple as AI, is again, considered "whining". Same with complaining about the obvious money grubbing cash shops.
Complain all you want.
Just know that you complaining does not mean it is actually a problem.
and hiding your head in the sand singing "lalala" doesn't make a problem disappear in your safe little bubble.
Other genres HAVE advanced far more than the MMORPG genre has. The MMO genre has grown stagnant, and very similar to Project Entopia.
In fact, most MMOs are not very different than Project Entopia payment model.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
This thread is not about advancement of this or other genres. It's about the pricing model of lotro.
Nice, you just avoided something that your argument lost at! I'll call that a victory
Again because I know you tried avoiding it, LOTRO model and many other MMO models have just come down to making the most money the company can take out of the player. Just like Project Entopia payment model, which is not that much different than LOTRO cash shop or most MMO payment models.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Nope. You tried to change the conversation. I stated I'm not discussing that other subject. How advanced this genre is or other genres are, is a completely different argument from the transparency or fairness of lotro's pricing.
The games have always been about making the most money. They are always pushing trying to find what the limits are. That's why they went from pay per hour to pay per month, they found they could get more people which made them more money. Then on top of that they still charged for the game and all the expansions because they found they could.
Every business model in every business does that. It is practically a responsibility in business to find what the acceptable line is.
A game that doesn't find that line will go under (assuming the game is good enough to play in the first place).
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
And standard practice = good practice and therefore not worth talking about?
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
I agree for the part "they could do better." However, from sludge's original post he generalized other people who would buy into Turbine marketing as stupid (or "has-not-past-10-grades") and I disagree with that.
If you disagree with any marketing gimmick, it's fine, that's your right to do so. But to came as far as saying other people who understand this are not pass their 10 grades, I don't think that's a proper way to throw your words.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Not at all, if you see the OP its about the presentation of the points being very "Cringe-inducing" with "Bonus Points" and an overly complicated lay-out that tells very little about what your actually getting.
So lets look at the pricing picture you posted:
What is not clear about the pricing?
You get 700 for 7.99, 1950 for 19.99 etc....
It's as clear as day
Even how they got those values is easy to see - base is 500, and the normal bonus is 100, BUT since this is a double bonus sale - you get 200, so 500+200 = 700
But even if you don't want to do this rudimentary math - just look at the RED area I bolded - it's very clear pricing.
Again am I missing something here?
Have you ever seen those "Made for TV" Advertisements?
Where they go "Hey we have this special offer, just for you, act now and youll not only get this Toast-O-Matic, but you also get the Toast-O-Matic Hand Towel ABSOLUTELY FREE!"
Its that level of cringe, the whole "Bonus" is just drummed up to make it seem like your really getting a great deal, its the most basic form of marketing, but people now a days are smarter than that.
Its not the fact that your getting an (X) number of "Bonus" points, its that the "Bonus" points exist at all.
In the base game, and not just for this promotion, you get "500 pts + 100 Bonus Pts".
Again the whole post was just about how cringe that is, its trying way too hard to appeal to peoples wallets and its easy for people to look past.
Bonus points are a very basic marketing strategy that is as old as the hills.
It's what entices players to spend money - this is standard in many cash shops.
Just like buy one get one free - it's the same principle of a bonus to entice the buyer.
Maybe you are new to cash shop monetization, but these are standard practices.
And standard practice = good practice and therefore not worth talking about?
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
So if you get his point - can you please point out what is unclear or sleazy on the pricing picture posted?
I'll let you pick which of these two is more straightforward for regular pricing:
600 points for $7.99 or 500 points PLUS 100 BONUS POINTS!!!!!!! for $7.99
And as far as sales go there's this way to do it where you still spend $7.99 and you now get 500 points PLUS 100 200 BONUS POINTS!!!!!!! but they could do it the way others do it and sell you the same 600 points for $6.99.
Too subtle?
And did I say that LOTRO is at the bottom of the sleazy and misleading scale or did I say that I've seen much worse and they can do better?
Deliberate reading miscomprehension much?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
And standard practice = good practice and therefore not worth talking about?
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
I agree for the part "they could do better." However, from sludge's original post he generalized other people who would buy into Turbine marketing as stupid (or "has-not-past-10-grades") and I disagree with that.
If you disagree with any marketing gimmick, it's fine, that's your right to do so. But to came as far as saying other people who understand this are not pass their 10 grades, I don't think that's a proper way to throw your words.
It has nothing to do with "being stupid", if you think microtransactions arent an issue for the younger generation you need to look at the news my friend.
Im lucky in that my parents saw the dangers of MT and warned me very early, didnt let me have a credit card till I was 17, and generally kept the family CC's out of me and my sisters reach.
Unfortunately that is not the case for alot of modern families, many of these games pray on younger audiences who dont have the restraint adults do.
Now is Lotro online being as deceitful as other online and F2P games? I frankly dont have an opinion on that either way, but the problem here is that when you see general Marketing practices like DMkano was talking about being used, it becomes hard to distinguish between the two.
What is the deceitful part? Again they have stated what you get and how much it costs.
edit - you legally can't even get a credit card till your 18 and if your parents are giving you their card without monitoring, well stupid parents. Kids don't have frontal development for a great many decisions.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Hey you know what? Lets just through a bunch of REALLY big numbers up on a screen.
Like Yeah 33,500 Points = $200!
Yeah! IT cant fail guys!
There is no way anyone can defend this, I mean look dont get me wrong, someone WILL defend this. Because everyone has to have a counter opinion about something regardless of its lack of basis within reality, but NO ONE that has gone past Grade 10 of high school can look at this and
1. Understand it. 2. Give a crap about what they are serving because its so arbitrary and poorly presented.
Whoooooaaa. Hey now, Cotton Mather. The witch hunt trials are a few hundred years
<--- That way.
Though truthfully, it's funny that someone with a mundane education in the basics of economics and business can, in fact, deflate this little argument that claimed anyone with an education would agree with.
Money by itself is worthless. It is given worth because the people say it is worth something, and thus trade for it. You can offer me $5 for a candy bar I bought for $1 and I could say "No. This is my treat for the day and worth more than $5." You can then offer $10, of which I may accept. We both got what we wanted. It was worth what I was willing to let it go for, and what you were willing to pay for it. You may call someone who pays $10 for a piece of candy stupid. But you do not understand the true worth of currency -- tender -- as it is meant to be traded. Nor do you understand the situation, or circumstance. Maybe the stores were all closed at that point? They had no access to other candy and had a sweet tooth? Perhaps they have more money than they know what to do with. Irresponsible spending, that last part, potentially yes.
The same can be said of the context hereof. What will 33,500 points get me (I actually don't know, as I don't like that game; some context on why you are upset would greatly help your argument, minus the underlined portions)? Will it give me access to all of the game's DLC content, all of the horse mounts, all of the pets, expansions, etc.? Is it worth it to me to have access to all of these things? Am I willing to pay for all that? Am I getting a better deal now than I would a week from now? Do I like this game enough to continue what I be purchasing?
If I can acquire what may be some $600-700 worth of stuff for $200, then it may be an intriguing prospect. Though as someone who doesn't like LotRO, I wouldn't even pay $5 for 33,500 points. Mainly because I would not play it. It is not worth it to me. I'd rather use this money for some overpriced coffee in the morning, that I begrudgingly agree is worth $5 simply because I am willing to pay that much for it.
I can understand the notion of paying $200 for a game as being stupid. I'm not one to pay $200 for collectors editions, which seem to be the rage. Though I have partook in P2P MMOs such as World of Warcraft. Beginning from its release, I have been paying $15 a month, buying every expansion, transferring characters, renaming characters and so on and so forth. I have paid for several accounts for multiple people. In total, the monthly fees probably reach upwards to $10,000 after roughly twelve years playing. For a single game. Little fees each month that climb over time.
I would've been glad to have spent $200 once and have access to potentially everything. But my actions signified that I believed WoW was worth $10,000 of my dollars.
MMORPGs in general are expensive. Video games are. Hobbies are. If you spent more than $200 on any of those combined, then this is a hypocritical statement. I'm very much a hypocrite when I say that I don't think WoW is worth $10,000 despite my actions telling another tale.
It could be best said by a few other comments here. What is posted as the price is the price. You get what is said. You decide if it is worth it. There's nothing wrong with it. If you think there is, then this is an expensive hobby to maintain.
As the old saying goes:
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Where did the meat come from? The bread? Who processed it? Who built the machines that ran it? How much does the electricity cost? How many workers had to be paid?
Trade occurred on each of those, and people accepted it. Even if someone hands you a sandwich, it was bought in some way.
This can also be applied in such a way as: "There is no such thing as a Free MMO." Don't agree with prices? Then you highly value money. You, yourself, place great value in it. But trying to insult others that don't agree with your thought process isn't a very, in my opinion, educated thing to do. We learn more from being wrong and listening to others than whatever goes on in our heads.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
And standard practice = good practice and therefore not worth talking about?
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
I agree for the part "they could do better." However, from sludge's original post he generalized other people who would buy into Turbine marketing as stupid (or "has-not-past-10-grades") and I disagree with that.
If you disagree with any marketing gimmick, it's fine, that's your right to do so. But to came as far as saying other people who understand this are not pass their 10 grades, I don't think that's a proper way to throw your words.
It has nothing to do with "being stupid", if you think microtransactions arent an issue for the younger generation you need to look at the news my friend.
Im lucky in that my parents saw the dangers of MT and warned me very early, didnt let me have a credit card till I was 17, and generally kept the family CC's out of me and my sisters reach.
Unfortunately that is not the case for alot of modern families, many of these games pray on younger audiences who dont have the restraint adults do.
Now is Lotro online being as deceitful as other online and F2P games? I frankly dont have an opinion on that either way, but the problem here is that when you see general Marketing practices like DMkano was talking about being used, it becomes hard to distinguish between the two.
Judging by your comment, it seemed the model is working.
And really some people are just rich, or they spend so much time playing the game, they don't mind spending large amount of real money in it.
Some people work hard in real life, and don't mind spending 500$ a month on a game they play everyday.
I personally spend like 70 a month playing pokemon go. I don't understand what's wrong with it.
Comments
Not at all, if you see the OP its about the presentation of the points being very "Cringe-inducing" with "Bonus Points" and an overly complicated lay-out that tells very little about what your actually getting. The post your referencing is just another part of the poorly designed system they have.
Below you said I was trying to argue "Value" which im not, and above your saying my OP was about something entirely different. Unfortunately im not trying to do either, so Im not sure what point your getting at?
So you think being nickel and dimed, and actually have to spend MORE than what people used to pay, is better? If A: Yes that is better, then you are a millennial moron, if B: No that is worse, then you are a hypocrite. Its one of those, which is it?
Most free to play games that used to be pay to play, are actually MORE expensive than if you just paid for it to begin with. Like GW2 there is a ton in the cash shop you have to pay for to unlock content. When usually it used to be just buy an expansion once. Or EVE is just a monthly fee and no further forced paid content.
Like ESO, I can pay 15 dollars for all DLC. Or pay hundred and hundreds of dollars to unlock everything, that I could just pay once a month for.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
You are as nickel and dimed as you choose to be.
You spend as much as you choose to. There is no requirement to pay anything upfront ever. It is your completely entirely your choice. Even the option to pay the sub.
Some months a sub makes more sense for me depending on the game. Other months free makes more sense. I'm not obligated to continually paying a certain amount each month to keep playing the game the way I like.
Where they go "Hey we have this special offer, just for you, act now and youll not only get this Toast-O-Matic, but you also get the Toast-O-Matic Hand Towel ABSOLUTELY FREE!"
Its that level of cringe, the whole "Bonus" is just drummed up to make it seem like your really getting a great deal, its the most basic form of marketing, but people now a days are smarter than that.
Its not the fact that your getting an (X) number of "Bonus" points, its that the "Bonus" points exist at all.
In the base game, and not just for this promotion, you get "500 pts + 100 Bonus Pts".
Again the whole post was just about how cringe that is, its trying way too hard to appeal to peoples wallets and its easy for people to look past.
Its proven things like that, the vast majority of people get addicted to. That is why there are so many homeless gamblers. Some people of course don't get sucked into that, but at the very most, that is 50% of the people.
Then in BDO, the game is buy to play. And I love BDO and all. But wow are the outfits expensive. One outfit and you could buy a whole bunch of games on sale on steam. Or even pay multiple monthly fees in a subscription game.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
However it is clear, as with any gambling, the majority do not get addicted. Far far less than 50%, last research I read it was around 14% of the population is believed to have receptors that are at risk for become disregulated due to things like gamblings. Some studies only show 2-3%.
Of the 80%ish of people that gamble, 14% or 2-3% really isn't a very big number. It is a big enough number to make sure there are controls and treatment for people who need them though.
There is nothing wrong with RNG. People like chance. Virtually every game show in the world relies on some element of chance (not all -- jeapardy, but most).
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/458534/why-are-npcs-so-static-and-lifeless-in-mmorpgs
Asking for better MMO AI around here is considered "whining". Wanting MMORPGs to not be so nickel and diming people, and which MMOs obviously wanting people addicted to gambling stuff (like RNG dye boxes or RNG loot boxes) to spend hordes of cash. People here just want to see the MMO genre implode, probably to really get back to MMOs being a niche genre. I bet most people here, really actually want to see better MMOs and to do it, the MMO genre needs to implode and be reborn. So they ask for things that make it worse.
Other genres are far more advanced than MMORPGs have become. Like I pointed out in that thread I made that I linked, even games like Ark Survival are more advanced and have better AI and mechanics than most MMOs do. Its why other genres have for most part, overtaken the MMO genre. Especially in terms of how much other genres have evolved, while MMOs are still stagnant. And asking for better MMOs or mechanics, as simple as AI, is again, considered "whining". Same with complaining about the obvious money grubbing cash shops.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Facts are hard for you hmm?
i don't see ffxiv or eve on the pay to play list...facts you should try to learn them.
I get Sludge's point... and so does everyone in this thread pretending not to get it. Advertising and marketing is not all equally annoying. There's a range from straightforward and honest all the way down to deliberately misleading and sleazy. I've seen much worse than LOTRO but they could do better.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Just know that you complaining does not mean it is actually a problem.
Other genres HAVE advanced far more than the MMORPG genre has. The MMO genre has grown stagnant, and very similar to Project Entopia.
In fact, most MMOs are not very different than Project Entopia payment model.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Again because I know you tried avoiding it, LOTRO model and many other MMO models have just come down to making the most money the company can take out of the player. Just like Project Entopia payment model, which is not that much different than LOTRO cash shop or most MMO payment models.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
The games have always been about making the most money. They are always pushing trying to find what the limits are. That's why they went from pay per hour to pay per month, they found they could get more people which made them more money. Then on top of that they still charged for the game and all the expansions because they found they could.
Every business model in every business does that. It is practically a responsibility in business to find what the acceptable line is.
A game that doesn't find that line will go under (assuming the game is good enough to play in the first place).
The cost in $$$ on a different page. The cost of other stuff on another page and so on. (There is a wiki as well that lists it.)
All the prices are clearly laid out. You do have to click on a different tab however ........
And the base game and the first few zones are free - beyond that you either buy or grind.
Exactly the same way that ESO shows both the cost of the crowns and the cost of the DLC etc. - on different tabs.
(Now personally I am not sure why anyone in LotR would need 30k points but ..... some people like fluff and xp scrolls etc. )
If you disagree with any marketing gimmick, it's fine, that's your right to do so. But to came as far as saying other people who understand this are not pass their 10 grades, I don't think that's a proper way to throw your words.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
600 points for $7.99 or
500 points PLUS 100 BONUS POINTS!!!!!!! for $7.99
And as far as sales go there's this way to do it where you still spend $7.99 and you now get 500 points PLUS 100 200 BONUS POINTS!!!!!!! but they could do it the way others do it and sell you the same 600 points for $6.99.
Too subtle?
And did I say that LOTRO is at the bottom of the sleazy and misleading scale or did I say that I've seen much worse and they can do better?
Deliberate reading miscomprehension much?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Father-My-Teenager-Spent-4500-FIFA-Microtransactions-70782.html
Im lucky in that my parents saw the dangers of MT and warned me very early, didnt let me have a credit card till I was 17, and generally kept the family CC's out of me and my sisters reach.
Unfortunately that is not the case for alot of modern families, many of these games pray on younger audiences who dont have the restraint adults do.
Now is Lotro online being as deceitful as other online and F2P games? I frankly dont have an opinion on that either way, but the problem here is that when you see general Marketing practices like DMkano was talking about being used, it becomes hard to distinguish between the two.
edit - you legally can't even get a credit card till your 18 and if your parents are giving you their card without monitoring, well stupid parents. Kids don't have frontal development for a great many decisions.
Whoooooaaa. Hey now, Cotton Mather. The witch hunt trials are a few hundred years
<--- That way.
Though truthfully, it's funny that someone with a mundane education in the basics of economics and business can, in fact, deflate this little argument that claimed anyone with an education would agree with.
Money by itself is worthless. It is given worth because the people say it is worth something, and thus trade for it. You can offer me $5 for a candy bar I bought for $1 and I could say "No. This is my treat for the day and worth more than $5." You can then offer $10, of which I may accept. We both got what we wanted. It was worth what I was willing to let it go for, and what you were willing to pay for it. You may call someone who pays $10 for a piece of candy stupid. But you do not understand the true worth of currency -- tender -- as it is meant to be traded. Nor do you understand the situation, or circumstance. Maybe the stores were all closed at that point? They had no access to other candy and had a sweet tooth? Perhaps they have more money than they know what to do with. Irresponsible spending, that last part, potentially yes.
The same can be said of the context hereof. What will 33,500 points get me (I actually don't know, as I don't like that game; some context on why you are upset would greatly help your argument, minus the underlined portions)? Will it give me access to all of the game's DLC content, all of the horse mounts, all of the pets, expansions, etc.? Is it worth it to me to have access to all of these things? Am I willing to pay for all that? Am I getting a better deal now than I would a week from now? Do I like this game enough to continue what I be purchasing?
If I can acquire what may be some $600-700 worth of stuff for $200, then it may be an intriguing prospect. Though as someone who doesn't like LotRO, I wouldn't even pay $5 for 33,500 points. Mainly because I would not play it. It is not worth it to me. I'd rather use this money for some overpriced coffee in the morning, that I begrudgingly agree is worth $5 simply because I am willing to pay that much for it.
I can understand the notion of paying $200 for a game as being stupid. I'm not one to pay $200 for collectors editions, which seem to be the rage. Though I have partook in P2P MMOs such as World of Warcraft. Beginning from its release, I have been paying $15 a month, buying every expansion, transferring characters, renaming characters and so on and so forth. I have paid for several accounts for multiple people. In total, the monthly fees probably reach upwards to $10,000 after roughly twelve years playing. For a single game. Little fees each month that climb over time.
I would've been glad to have spent $200 once and have access to potentially everything. But my actions signified that I believed WoW was worth $10,000 of my dollars.
MMORPGs in general are expensive. Video games are. Hobbies are. If you spent more than $200 on any of those combined, then this is a hypocritical statement. I'm very much a hypocrite when I say that I don't think WoW is worth $10,000 despite my actions telling another tale.
It could be best said by a few other comments here. What is posted as the price is the price. You get what is said. You decide if it is worth it. There's nothing wrong with it. If you think there is, then this is an expensive hobby to maintain.
As the old saying goes:
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
Where did the meat come from? The bread? Who processed it? Who built the machines that ran it? How much does the electricity cost? How many workers had to be paid?
Trade occurred on each of those, and people accepted it. Even if someone hands you a sandwich, it was bought in some way.
This can also be applied in such a way as: "There is no such thing as a Free MMO." Don't agree with prices? Then you highly value money. You, yourself, place great value in it. But trying to insult others that don't agree with your thought process isn't a very, in my opinion, educated thing to do. We learn more from being wrong and listening to others than whatever goes on in our heads.
And really some people are just rich, or they spend so much time playing the game, they don't mind spending large amount of real money in it.
Some people work hard in real life, and don't mind spending 500$ a month on a game they play everyday.
I personally spend like 70 a month playing pokemon go. I don't understand what's wrong with it.