Innovation has tended to go down over the years simply because the stalest, most dated mechanics today used to be innovative. That doesn't mean they were good back when they were innovative, but they counted as innovation then but not today.
But if you think there isn't any more innovation in the industry, have a look at Black Desert, Tree of Savior, or Trove. And that's just among MMORPGs that launched in the last year and a half. Don't confuse not offering the particular innovations you want with not innovating at all.
Yes, there are a lot of awful games out there. But that's always been the case, at least since there have been a lot of games out there at all. But there's no requirement that you must play all games equally. Feel free to ignore the terrible games and play the ones you like.
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions. Just because a game last longer than three months, doesn't mean its popular or played by millions. Archeage, BDO, SWTOR etc., were abandoned in droves. I don't need a website to tell me the players left because the games lacked quality. Perhaps, they fail to teach you young 'uns critical thinking skills nowadays. Although, your hate/troll game is pretty fierce.
I'm not at all offended by your portrayal of old school players. Because I was once a young, dumb know-it-all, too.
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
I'm not at all offended by your portrayal of old school players. Because I was once a young, dumb know-it-all, too.
Yep and then you became old, dumb and a know-it-all. And your life at 50 or whatever you are has resorted to crying on a video game forum how the genre passed you by. Sounds like somewhere along the lines things went south for you in life.
Again blind ignorance to facts is all you old bitter vets have. The greatest thing mmorpg did was say FU to those like you. See vets like me (not young again facts are hard for you) have adapted to the change and yes continue to play with the MILLIOM AND MILLIONS of other players while those like you cry on a video game forum.
I think the complexity of MMORPGs have gone down like character customization, crafting, factions, reputation systems, etc etc....but Quality itself has only been going up unless you feel that complexity is synonymous to quality.
I am quite happy with the quality of the games I have played . I also enjoyed The Black Desert enormously without doing any PvP but the economics and trading system,horse breeding and general worker empire set up was enjoyable for me. I also enjoyed ESO when I was playing it. Can't see your point of view unless it is a personal one which is not something that should be a subject of discussion since it is anecdotal.
The only games I do not enjoy are games that give me no option to avoid PvP or are very actiony like Blade and Soul. Although Blade and Soul has an option to avoid PvP it was too actiony.
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions. Just because a game last longer than three months, doesn't mean its popular or played by millions. Archeage, BDO, SWTOR etc., were abandoned in droves. I don't need a website to tell me the players left because the games lacked quality. Perhaps, they fail to teach you young 'uns critical thinking skills nowadays. Although, your hate/troll game is pretty fierce.
I'm not at all offended by your portrayal of old school players. Because I was once a young, dumb know-it-all, too.
What you completely fail to consider is that masses hop games regardless of quality.
No game retains players today - none - they all lose majority of players after 2-6 weeks.
so its NOT the games, its the players who simply move on to the next shiny every 2-6 weeks.
Yeah he stuck in the year 2002 he can't comprehend how the genre left him in the dust TEN YEARS AGO.
At this current moment in time I think MMOs are actually increasing in quality a bit when compared with most of the titles we've seen since WoW caught on. The problem is that most of the titles that will massively move the genre forward are still a year or two (or maybe even three or four) from release. And even after release I'm guessing they'll take a couple more years to be really polished titles.
ArcheAge and BDO were a step in the right direction but it's titles like Star Citizen that will bring us to where we need to be, and I'm guessing we're not going to see those kind of titles become mainstream successes for a good 4-6 years longer. And then the games developed in a response to the idea not all MMOs need to be the same will take another 4-6 years after that to come out.
So we're talking sometime about a decade from now the damage WoW did to the market might be mostly undone.
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions.
If you really believe this, I wouldn't trust anything you have to say on the subject.
Yeah, I mean the quality has declined for most part (in my opinion)
But FFXIV/GW2/ESO all have a million+ subs. Not sure about SWTOR. Same with WoW, but everyone knows WoW anyway, so its kinda redundant to list it since everyone already knows its the most populated.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions.
If you really believe this, I wouldn't trust anything you have to say on the subject.
Yeah, I mean the quality has declined for most part (in my opinion)
But FFXIV/GW2/ESO all have a million+ subs. Not sure about SWTOR. Same with WoW, but everyone knows WoW anyway, so its kinda redundant to list it since everyone already knows its the most populated.
It should be noted that all of those games were released years ago, and there is not very much in the pipeline for "AAA" releases.
Money talks and BS walks, and the bigger Western companies are walking away from the MMORPG space.
That is just a fact.
(Many of them have even said they are moving on to mobile games or "smaller" products, which are just as profitable, if not more than MMORPGs, and the time/capital costs are much less.)
At this current moment in time I think MMOs are actually increasing in quality a bit when compared with most of the titles we've seen since WoW caught on. The problem is that most of the titles that will massively move the genre forward are still a year or two (or maybe even three or four) from release. And even after release I'm guessing they'll take a couple more years to be really polished titles.
ArcheAge and BDO were a step in the right direction but it's titles like Star Citizen that will bring us to where we need to be, and I'm guessing we're not going to see those kind of titles become mainstream successes for a good 4-6 years longer. And then the games developed in a response to the idea not all MMOs need to be the same will take another 4-6 years after that to come out.
So we're talking sometime about a decade from now the damage WoW did to the market might be mostly undone.
I sure hope not.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
There are a lot of good games out there its just that addictive feeling that I have of the SWG void not being filled that irritates me a little tbh so I find myself hopping from game to game because of the lack of "the game" that will make me stick to it long-term like I use to. But I'm staying positive and playing different games with friends that I enjoy.
ESO is probably one of the most impressive to me, I was amazed with that game and how smooth it was definitely worth the 10 bucks. I wouldn't have dropped 20 bucks on it last year though simply because I'm distracted with other games and don't see myself spending enough time into it at the time to get my moneys worth. And for sure would not spend 60 cause I'm not the biggest elder scrolls fan out there.
I was impressed with the game's skill system and like the idea of having to learn how to manage your stamina and magicka bars as well as picking the best skills that will help you manage it best at the same time doing your best with whatever role your picking heal/tank/dps/support.
But I agree with Eldurian Star Citizen has the potential to bring us to where we need to be compared to the several mmos out there that are copy and pastes of.....well you get the idea.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
Yep and then you became old, dumb and a know-it-all. And your life at 50 or whatever you are has resorted to crying on a video game forum how the genre passed you by. Sounds like somewhere along the lines things went south for you in life.
Again blind ignorance to facts is all you old bitter vets have. The greatest thing mmorpg did was say FU to those like you. See vets like me (not young again facts are hard for you) have adapted to the change and yes continue to play with the MILLIOM AND MILLIONS of other players while those like you cry on a video game forum.
Sure, but one thing actually were better 15 years ago: there were a lot more variation in the genre.
I been playing since Meridian 59 myself, some things are better today then in "the good old days", others isn't. The community is larger but not as tight as it used to be which just is logical.
I think what we need is a few good MMOs that try different mechanics, settings and ideas then the rest. We had a few that did that with different results but I rather hope we see more innovation then BDO, GW2 and AA in the future, they all did take steps in the right direction (away from the standard model) but not enough of them.
As for SC I have no comments as of yet, too early to really say much.
Yes!!!!! an Ultima online for being the first was done so much better then these days. The depth and skill lvl required aren't in any current game. There was literally a counter for everything in game and played at the same skill lvl the balance was staggering when compared to todays games of OP flavor of the month ,or never ending cc to substitute for having actually be able to play. If you got zerged in UO by 7 noobs if ya knew what u were doin you were leaving with 7 noobs worth of gear lol. Now there is usually one specific counter to crap in every game with a 30sec-3min cd so when you counter it the other 8 times you get hit right after yer boned so might as well not even have a counter lolz
At this current moment in time I think MMOs are actually increasing in quality a bit when compared with most of the titles we've seen since WoW caught on. The problem is that most of the titles that will massively move the genre forward are still a year or two (or maybe even three or four) from release. And even after release I'm guessing they'll take a couple more years to be really polished titles.
ArcheAge and BDO were a step in the right direction but it's titles like Star Citizen that will bring us to where we need to be, and I'm guessing we're not going to see those kind of titles become mainstream successes for a good 4-6 years longer. And then the games developed in a response to the idea not all MMOs need to be the same will take another 4-6 years after that to come out.
So we're talking sometime about a decade from now the damage WoW did to the market might be mostly undone.
I sure hope not.
Whether or not SC even releases in the next few years probably doesn't matter very much, i seriously doubt it will ever be a mainstream game, it does have multiplayer, but its entirely questionable whether it will support enough players to be classed as a MMO, even then, it is likely to remain a niche game and a rather small niche at that, take Eve Online, at its peak it had around 500k active players, now its probably around 300k - 350k active players or, subs at least, and Eve Online is likely more popular than SC can ever hope to be. As for BDO and Archeage, well, BDO i thought was a great game, somewhat mismanaged when it came to its monetary policies, but nevertheless, a good game, much better imo, than ArcheAge, and probably more popular too, if there is one thing that i think BDO did well, was its none combat related activities, making PVP a level 50+ activity was also imo a positive aspect of the game. Future games i would hope take some of the positive aspects of these games, certainly, the worlds of BDO and ArcheAge are hugely positive aspects that deserve to be repeated/expanded upon, one thing i found was that just travelling around the world of BDO was an enjoyable experience in of itself, though whether or not that also applies to SC, who knows, until it finally releases its hard to say whether it will even measure up to current games, let alone future ones, the whole SC saga is likely to be noteworthy in itself, so much so that the games release could actually be anticlimactic, regardless it is likely to be a piece of gaming history, whether it is a successful game or not.
The thing I appreciate about SC is that it challenges almost everything about the WoW model. Progression, combat, etc. It's all completely different. Even to a larger level than EVE. EVE eliminated grinding for levels. Star Citizen has completely eliminated leveling altogether (like EVE really should have done.)
I can assume it won't be trinity based, that there will be no quest based progression etc. If it does those things and succeeds to any degree then it will have basically proven that you can take everything we attach to the word MMO other than the Massively Multiplayer Online part, throw it in the trash, and still make it work. Hopefully make it work even better.
I have my doubts they can pull of everything they have promised but even a delivery on half of what they have promised would be pretty damn good. And there is a great amount of already completed features that show that there will be an MMO within the next two years most likely.
The thing I appreciate about SC is that it challenges almost everything about the WoW model. Progression, combat, etc. It's all completely different. Even to a larger level than EVE. EVE eliminated grinding for levels. Star Citizen has completely eliminated leveling altogether (like EVE really should have done.)
I can assume it won't be trinity based, that there will be no quest based progression etc. If it does those things and succeeds to any degree then it will have basically proven that you can take everything we attach to the word MMO other than the Massively Multiplayer Online part, throw it in the trash, and still make it work. Hopefully make it work even better.
I have my doubts they can pull of everything they have promised but even a delivery on half of what they have promised would be pretty damn good. And there is a great amount of already completed features that show that there will be an MMO within the next two years most likely.
While that sounds great, your talking about things that might not even happen, the game is still Early Alpha, everything can change, many thinks probably will change, either way, until we see something like the final version of the game, or at least it hits a Beta stage that gives us some idea of what the final version will be, its entirely questionable whether any of those things will hold true. But even with all those things aside, the game is looking more like a multiplayer game than an MMO, despite how much people seem to want to move that particular goal post. Regardless i have no doubt that SC will be a noteworthy game, why it will be noteworthy, has yet to be decided.
As some1 who's Been playing MMOs for more than 17 years. Started from the legendary DAoC, to the beautifull WoW at that time(still TBC my fav exp over wotlk)have played all expansions less actively after Cata(i only didnt play draenor i thought i was horrible), i still beileve that legion is a huge upgrade, great leveling system -quite much content, decent changes, fanatstic storyline but i just cba anymore to play WoW.
I also loved Warhammer(RIp) played Swtor,i really liked the futuristic view of wildstar for some weeks, i got turned off by the immense amount of bugs in ESO.
Sorry for that mumbling but i just wanted to say that the overall quality of the game is definitely going /went up that doesnt mean the interest of the players aswell, companies have turned to other type of games(like moba--e sports section).Not because soloely of the financial aspect but because of the new generation of gamers that chosed this way.
My humble personal opinion about the 2 main issues of the last years in MMORPGS are these.
1:)Innovation many have already commented on it, mechanics and gamestyle of MMORPGS feels old because it has already been cloned hundreads of times
2:) Some might find it stupid, but i think INDIVIDIUALITY as a whole has been deteriorating as the years move on, in both aspects of external appearence but also in terms of skills.We went from games like COH and WoW(i still cant forget how rewarding it felt to have almost every level different armor pieces with different armor design, hundreads of them from 1 -60) we went to games with 3-4 armor sets that dont even change as u level up.You know people want to look different...
Summing up even tho i've stopped playing MMOs currently(kinda left legion few weeks ago), i still cant deny that both WoW and Final Fantasy the fact that still have more than a decent player base means they do something right that other MMOs DONT, i have to respect that
People dont need to copy the mechanics and certaina spects of the games from WoW and Guilds wars and etc, they have to cop the ELEMENTS that made succesfull and shape with their own special way. these are for example individuallity--Community--Competitiveness between groups or individuals.
I kinda agree with OP. In the old days I feel like there was a large open world with players just running around looking for eachother. In terms of content of that world and things to do, most games were lacking, especially compared to mmorpg's nowadays. (Maybe some exceptions like EQ) In that sense you might think mmorpg's are of much higher quality now. Still it feels like the golden age of mmorpg's are over. Why? I think it is because what mmorpg's used to be about was a giant world that ppl could play in simultaneously. That was basically it. Lot's of games were grinds, but we could play them together.
I think nowadays producers (and players probably) want more content in every way. Enough quests for every lvl, crafting, mounts, flying maybe, raids, dungeons, party finding, pets, puzzles, guilds and guild towns, story, flexible builds with resets, portals, separated pve and pvp content so it caters to everybody, quest help etc etc. But most of these things, in my mind at least, make a world smaller. An open world separated by content designed to cater to different players. An easy way to do literally everything from transportation to mining to questing. Everything is pointed out and most likely is designed to isolate you. For example, higher grade gathering materials are mostly found in certain instances, non interactive flight paths will take you to where you want to go, autopath to a quest with map zone indicators in pve area's that are hard to reach for any sort of pk'er. Hell quests don't even acquire you to do anything remotely dangerous.
It could be, and used to be, so much better when you wanted to do something and even getting there might cause you to deviate from your plans and do something else. And even if you got to that mining site you would first check for competition and usually you had to go with a friend just in case. I once pk'ed an afk'er just because I could and had a great day just playing that mmo, trying to outrun him when he sought revenge.
Maybe i'm also a niche player but why don't ppl even try to make an open world anymore? I think some newer mmo's now try to do it again and it sort of restores my faith in mmorpg's, but ever since WoW there have only been mmo's that could keep me interested for 2 months tops. Oh and I just use WoW as a time reference, I hate WoW and the thousands of clones it inspired.
It's odd to talk about decline when we have advanced graphically and even in terms of UI and what the AI and other systems can achieve and yet games have somewhat declined in excitement because finding something new is no longer a thing. We have discovered so much so many years ago and now everything is déjà vu but that is not something we can fix.
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions. Just because a game last longer than three months, doesn't mean its popular or played by millions. Archeage, BDO, SWTOR etc., were abandoned in droves. I don't need a website to tell me the players left because the games lacked quality. Perhaps, they fail to teach you young 'uns critical thinking skills nowadays. Although, your hate/troll game is pretty fierce.
I'm not at all offended by your portrayal of old school players. Because I was once a young, dumb know-it-all, too.
What you completely fail to consider is that masses hop games regardless of quality.
No MMO game retains players today - none - they all lose majority of players after 2-6 weeks.
so its NOT the games, its the players who simply move on to the next shiny every 2-6 weeks.
With Steam, consoles, Netflix, Facebook, Snapchat, Youtube, Reddit, mobile games on smartphones etc.... theres fierce competition for peoples "free time" that didnt exist 15 years ago.
Think back at the time of eq1, daoc - no social media, no smarphones, no netflix, no youtube, no steam. Yeah.
players who spend years dedicating all their free time to a single MMO like players did back in 1999-2004, its an extreme minority.
again, times have changed, the way masses spend time playing games have changed
I knew it, despite all the doubters, it really was the players who are to blame for the state of the genre today, the developers are just reacting to and monetizing their games in order to still profit in a sea of bad taste.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Furh79, if what you say is true then we'd see massive MMO hits like WoW, EQ, DAoC, etc. Instead we see massive flameouts happen within three months. Its no secret this genre is trash now. I'd rather play mobile games than the garbage MMOs out there.
Well WoW is still a massive hit, games like SWTOR, ESO and FFXIV have made more money per year than EQ or DAoC could ever dream of. Show me when EQ or DAoC made over $100 million in one year. Its no secret your OPINION is NOT shared by the MILLION and MILLIONS who are enjoying MMOS today. To think otherwise is ignorant.
And what type of person cries a genre is trash and still comes to a website dedicated to that genre just to cry?
BTW every game on the top pay to play list has been around a lot longer than three months, its amazing how ignorant you bitter old school babies are to actual FACTS.
Millions and millions of players? I don't believe there a million western MMO players left let alone millions and millions.
If you really believe this, I wouldn't trust anything you have to say on the subject.
Yeah, I mean the quality has declined for most part (in my opinion)
But FFXIV/GW2/ESO all have a million+ subs. Not sure about SWTOR. Same with WoW, but everyone knows WoW anyway, so its kinda redundant to list it since everyone already knows its the most populated.
Can you provide a single link where the developers or publishers of those 5 titles has published number of "subs", concurrent users online or number of paying customers in a given month?
Recent data in the last year please.
Don't bother, I know you can't, so claims of over a million are just guesses, much like Superdata.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
But if you think there isn't any more innovation in the industry, have a look at Black Desert, Tree of Savior, or Trove. And that's just among MMORPGs that launched in the last year and a half. Don't confuse not offering the particular innovations you want with not innovating at all.
Yes, there are a lot of awful games out there. But that's always been the case, at least since there have been a lot of games out there at all. But there's no requirement that you must play all games equally. Feel free to ignore the terrible games and play the ones you like.
I'm not at all offended by your portrayal of old school players. Because I was once a young, dumb know-it-all, too.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
And your life at 50 or whatever you are has resorted to crying on a video game forum how the genre passed you by. Sounds like somewhere along the lines things went south for you in life.
Again blind ignorance to facts is all you old bitter vets have. The greatest thing mmorpg did was say FU to those like you. See vets like me (not young again facts are hard for you) have adapted to the change and yes continue to play with the MILLIOM AND MILLIONS of other players while those like you cry on a video game forum.
The only games I do not enjoy are games that give me no option to avoid PvP or are very actiony like Blade and Soul. Although Blade and Soul has an option to avoid PvP it was too actiony.
ArcheAge and BDO were a step in the right direction but it's titles like Star Citizen that will bring us to where we need to be, and I'm guessing we're not going to see those kind of titles become mainstream successes for a good 4-6 years longer. And then the games developed in a response to the idea not all MMOs need to be the same will take another 4-6 years after that to come out.
So we're talking sometime about a decade from now the damage WoW did to the market might be mostly undone.
If you really believe this, I wouldn't trust anything you have to say on the subject.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
But FFXIV/GW2/ESO all have a million+ subs. Not sure about SWTOR. Same with WoW, but everyone knows WoW anyway, so its kinda redundant to list it since everyone already knows its the most populated.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Money talks and BS walks, and the bigger Western companies are walking away from the MMORPG space.
That is just a fact.
(Many of them have even said they are moving on to mobile games or "smaller" products, which are just as profitable, if not more than MMORPGs, and the time/capital costs are much less.)
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
ESO is probably one of the most impressive to me, I was amazed with that game and how smooth it was definitely worth the 10 bucks. I wouldn't have dropped 20 bucks on it last year though simply because I'm distracted with other games and don't see myself spending enough time into it at the time to get my moneys worth. And for sure would not spend 60 cause I'm not the biggest elder scrolls fan out there.
I was impressed with the game's skill system and like the idea of having to learn how to manage your stamina and magicka bars as well as picking the best skills that will help you manage it best at the same time doing your best with whatever role your picking heal/tank/dps/support.
But I agree with Eldurian Star Citizen has the potential to bring us to where we need to be compared to the several mmos out there that are copy and pastes of.....well you get the idea.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
I been playing since Meridian 59 myself, some things are better today then in "the good old days", others isn't. The community is larger but not as tight as it used to be which just is logical.
I think what we need is a few good MMOs that try different mechanics, settings and ideas then the rest. We had a few that did that with different results but I rather hope we see more innovation then BDO, GW2 and AA in the future, they all did take steps in the right direction (away from the standard model) but not enough of them.
As for SC I have no comments as of yet, too early to really say much.
As for BDO and Archeage, well, BDO i thought was a great game, somewhat mismanaged when it came to its monetary policies, but nevertheless, a good game, much better imo, than ArcheAge, and probably more popular too, if there is one thing that i think BDO did well, was its none combat related activities, making PVP a level 50+ activity was also imo a positive aspect of the game.
Future games i would hope take some of the positive aspects of these games, certainly, the worlds of BDO and ArcheAge are hugely positive aspects that deserve to be repeated/expanded upon, one thing i found was that just travelling around the world of BDO was an enjoyable experience in of itself, though whether or not that also applies to SC, who knows, until it finally releases its hard to say whether it will even measure up to current games, let alone future ones, the whole SC saga is likely to be noteworthy in itself, so much so that the games release could actually be anticlimactic, regardless it is likely to be a piece of gaming history, whether it is a successful game or not.
I can assume it won't be trinity based, that there will be no quest based progression etc. If it does those things and succeeds to any degree then it will have basically proven that you can take everything we attach to the word MMO other than the Massively Multiplayer Online part, throw it in the trash, and still make it work. Hopefully make it work even better.
I have my doubts they can pull of everything they have promised but even a delivery on half of what they have promised would be pretty damn good. And there is a great amount of already completed features that show that there will be an MMO within the next two years most likely.
But even with all those things aside, the game is looking more like a multiplayer game than an MMO, despite how much people seem to want to move that particular goal post.
Regardless i have no doubt that SC will be a noteworthy game, why it will be noteworthy, has yet to be decided.
I also loved Warhammer(RIp) played Swtor,i really liked the futuristic view of wildstar for some weeks, i got turned off by the immense amount of bugs in ESO.
Sorry for that mumbling but i just wanted to say that the overall quality of the game is definitely going /went up that doesnt mean the interest of the players aswell, companies have turned to other type of games(like moba--e sports section).Not because soloely of the financial aspect but because of the new generation of gamers that chosed this way.
My humble personal opinion about the 2 main issues of the last years in MMORPGS are these.
1:)Innovation many have already commented on it, mechanics and gamestyle of MMORPGS feels old because it has already been cloned hundreads of times
2:) Some might find it stupid, but i think INDIVIDIUALITY as a whole has been deteriorating as the years move on, in both aspects of external appearence but also in terms of skills.We went from games like COH and WoW(i still cant forget how rewarding it felt to have almost every level different armor pieces with different armor design, hundreads of them from 1 -60) we went to games with 3-4 armor sets that dont even change as u level up.You know people want to look different...
Summing up even tho i've stopped playing MMOs currently(kinda left legion few weeks ago), i still cant deny that both WoW and Final Fantasy the fact that still have more than a decent player base means they do something right that other MMOs DONT, i have to respect that
People dont need to copy the mechanics and certaina spects of the games from WoW and Guilds wars and etc, they have to cop the ELEMENTS that made succesfull and shape with their own special way. these are for example individuallity--Community--Competitiveness between groups or individuals.
Thanks for reading and sorry for mediocre English
I think nowadays producers (and players probably) want more content in every way. Enough quests for every lvl, crafting, mounts, flying maybe, raids, dungeons, party finding, pets, puzzles, guilds and guild towns, story, flexible builds with resets, portals, separated pve and pvp content so it caters to everybody, quest help etc etc.
But most of these things, in my mind at least, make a world smaller. An open world separated by content designed to cater to different players. An easy way to do literally everything from transportation to mining to questing. Everything is pointed out and most likely is designed to isolate you. For example, higher grade gathering materials are mostly found in certain instances, non interactive flight paths will take you to where you want to go, autopath to a quest with map zone indicators in pve area's that are hard to reach for any sort of pk'er. Hell quests don't even acquire you to do anything remotely dangerous.
It could be, and used to be, so much better when you wanted to do something and even getting there might cause you to deviate from your plans and do something else. And even if you got to that mining site you would first check for competition and usually you had to go with a friend just in case.
I once pk'ed an afk'er just because I could and had a great day just playing that mmo, trying to outrun him when he sought revenge.
Maybe i'm also a niche player but why don't ppl even try to make an open world anymore? I think some newer mmo's now try to do it again and it sort of restores my faith in mmorpg's, but ever since WoW there have only been mmo's that could keep me interested for 2 months tops. Oh and I just use WoW as a time reference, I hate WoW and the thousands of clones it inspired.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Recent data in the last year please.
Don't bother, I know you can't, so claims of over a million are just guesses, much like Superdata.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon