Appears they have nailed the initial old school feel and look. It wants to be a genre game and it looks it. Great for those interested in it.
Also some very nice RPG style elements. The unjaded part of me is gaining a level of excitement for this game.
I forgot to mention, they fixed the nameplates. This was actually something I was really cringing at in the last 2 streams and I immediately noticed in this stream. They look so much better. Still look to be floating a little high over the player's head, maybe to accommodate the health bars, but a big improvement.
Maybe a small thing, but sometimes it's those little things that can have a real subconscious impact.
Aenra, let's be honest, no Developer likes negative posts in their own Forums, that's why MMORPG.com is so important as a neutral place to discuss the games freely. I also agree with you that sometimes Developers should listen more to their player base and be less defensive when they criticize their game.
Regarding the "Climbing Mechanics" I also agree that it is not strictly necessary in a MMO. Having said that, you should be happy that VR is trying to revitalize the Old School concept and bring it to 21st Century standards.
I had countless discussion on these forums with people telling me that Old School is just a redundant and archaic design, unable to evolve and reinvent itself. But when VR tries to do just that, and implement modern features in its design, people complains that they have no place in it.
VR is implementing this "Climbing mechanic" and Voice Chat in Pantheon. Do I think they are necessary? No. Do I think that's good we have them? Absolutely yes. And I am looking forward for more of this stuff in Pantheon.
Appears they have nailed the initial old school feel and look. It wants to be a genre game and it looks it. Great for those interested in it.
Also some very nice RPG style elements. The unjaded part of me is gaining a level of excitement for this game.
I forgot to mention, they fixed the nameplates. This was actually something I was really cringing at in the last 2 streams and I immediately noticed in this stream. They look so much better. Still look to be floating a little high over the player's head, maybe to accommodate the health bars, but a big improvement.
Maybe a small thing, but sometimes it's those little things that can have a real subconscious impact.
I agree. Things like that are always a big deal to me. Getting the little details right add a mark of quality to a game. For all the disagreement folks on these forums have over Blizzard titles, that is something they have always excelled at. People do notice, consciously or subconsciously things like UI issues, clipping, poor fitting armor, and animations that are slightly off.
Appears they have nailed the initial old school feel and look. It wants to be a genre game and it looks it. Great for those interested in it.
Also some very nice RPG style elements. The unjaded part of me is gaining a level of excitement for this game.
I forgot to mention, they fixed the nameplates. This was actually something I was really cringing at in the last 2 streams and I immediately noticed in this stream. They look so much better. Still look to be floating a little high over the player's head, maybe to accommodate the health bars, but a big improvement.
Maybe a small thing, but sometimes it's those little things that can have a real subconscious impact.
I agree. Things like that are always a big deal to me. Getting the little details right add a mark of quality to a game. For all the disagreement folks on these forums have over Blizzard titles, that is something they have always excelled at. People do notice, consciously or subconsciously things like UI issues, clipping, poor fitting armor, and animations that are slightly off.
People do indeed notice them. Whether their opinion matters for anything when critiquing a game stressing they are in "Pre-pre-alpha" is entirely another matter.
As I have said before, I believe the balance and gameplay of EQ/Vanguard is the singular focus that needs to be in this genre of games. Things like forced grouping (unless you are skilled and using the right class, aka necro in EQ), mobs camps, long travel, long TTK, real crowd control mechanics... all those things allowed socialization to occur.
With that said, there are aspects that could use enhancing. UI, gameplay additions( fishing, farming, etc), housing in some form that does not negatively impact the game... things that will improve more social aspects and communities.
Heck, I love the perception system currently... it makes the world feel more organic, more alive. This is the kind of enhancements needed. Changing the combat mechanics to increase the appeal to a larger population is not a change I support. The genre doesn't need MMO #2546, it needs the next iteration of EQ/Vanguard.
The point that some people here seem to be missing is that rewards gained with no efford gives no satisfaction, while things you put in efford to get rewards feeling of accomplishment. To say that effort in eq equal time is a rather simplistic way to view this, and if you feel that was what eq was about you quite frankly missed out. The pace should only be as slow as it is needed for players to feel the actions they choose in combat matters and as such they feel skillful in choosing and timing - If the pace goes up too much that feeling is lost (to lesser or higher degree).
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
The point that some people here seem to be missing is that rewards gained with no efford gives no satisfaction, while things you put in efford to get rewards feeling of accomplishment. To say that effort in eq equal time is a rather simplistic way to view this, and if you feel that was what eq was about you quite frankly missed out. The pace should only be as slow as it is needed for players to feel the actions they choose in combat matters and as such they feel skillful in choosing and timing - If the pace goes up too much that feeling is lost (to lesser or higher degree).
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
Doesn't action based combat require timing, teamwork, and knowledge, in addition to 'twitch' skill?
People often associate action combat with 2-3 skill button mashing, circle strafing, and mouse clicks, but that's a rather shallow view of that system. An action combat system could easily have as many skills available as is found in a more traditional tab target system; Darkfall, despite its failings, proved that to be true.
I'm not really looking to argue for or against tab target vs action base combat, I just think suggesting action based combat = simplified, non-tactical combat is a misconception and grossly inaccurate
The point that some people here seem to be missing is that rewards gained with no efford gives no satisfaction, while things you put in efford to get rewards feeling of accomplishment. To say that effort in eq equal time is a rather simplistic way to view this, and if you feel that was what eq was about you quite frankly missed out. The pace should only be as slow as it is needed for players to feel the actions they choose in combat matters and as such they feel skillful in choosing and timing - If the pace goes up too much that feeling is lost (to lesser or higher degree).
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
Doesn't action based combat require timing, teamwork, and knowledge, in addition to 'twitch' skill?
People often associate action combat with 2-3 skill button mashing, circle strafing, and mouse clicks, but that's a rather shallow view of that system. An action combat system could easily have as many skills available as is found in a more traditional tab target system; Darkfall, despite its failings, proved that to be true.
I'm not really looking to argue for or against tab target vs action base combat, I just think suggesting action based combat = simplified, non-tactical combat is a misconception and grossly inaccurate
Also, 2 - 3 skill button mashing and circle strafing can very much be a part of tab targeting. As a matter of fact the only time I was ever circle strafed was in a tab target game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The point that some people here seem to be missing is that rewards gained with no efford gives no satisfaction, while things you put in efford to get rewards feeling of accomplishment. To say that effort in eq equal time is a rather simplistic way to view this, and if you feel that was what eq was about you quite frankly missed out. The pace should only be as slow as it is needed for players to feel the actions they choose in combat matters and as such they feel skillful in choosing and timing - If the pace goes up too much that feeling is lost (to lesser or higher degree).
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
Doesn't action based combat require timing, teamwork, and knowledge, in addition to 'twitch' skill?
People often associate action combat with 2-3 skill button mashing, circle strafing, and mouse clicks, but that's a rather shallow view of that system. An action combat system could easily have as many skills available as is found in a more traditional tab target system; Darkfall, despite its failings, proved that to be true.
I'm not really looking to argue for or against tab target vs action base combat, I just think suggesting action based combat = simplified, non-tactical combat is a misconception and grossly inaccurate
Also, 2 - 3 skill button mashing and circle strafing can very much be a part of tab targeting. As a matter of fact the only time I was ever circle strafed was in a tab target game.
Exactly, I've seen frequently during PvP in tab target games, which makes no sense. lol
Pretty game. But I played a less-pretty version of this 17 years ago. It's still a pile of characters beating on a single mob at a time, with single adds mezzed and waiting for their beatdown to begin. What about packs of 4-8 mobs at a time? I've been bored with the 4-on-1 fight with 1 healer and 1 crowd controller for quite a long while now.
Beyond the pretty graphics, it's more of the same, nothing new or innovative.
Just how we like it
Just how you THINK you like it.
IMO - after several weeks you'll probably be thinking "I've played all this before... why am I doing this again?"
I've played P99 every day for years. I KNOW its what I like
And he would have us believe that he donated to this game lol. Just by his comment you quoted we know it's a big fat lie.
Embarrassing.
What's embarrassing is that you are quick to call me a liar just because you disagree with me, and quite possibly have an axe to grind with what I've said in the past?
That's embarrassing.
You can't even fathom the idea that I backed Pantheon and I can still be critical of the development decisions?
Backers can and SHOULD be critical - that's how things get better, if everyone just "ooohs" and "aaaahs" at anything developers say.... that's a lot more embarrassing isn't it?
I still play P99, I've played EQ1 since march of 1999 , I have over 7 years of "/played" time.
And yet I am not going to be blind to the fact that the playerbase that can stand to play that type of game has dwindled over the last 17 years and continue to do so every year.
It's a valid concern.
At least, @DMKano, you didn't get a developer give 'Agrees' to everyone who disagrees with you, even the snide, snarky comments which didn't address the point I was making.
And certainly, discussion of a game's development should be more than 'ooohs and aaaahs'[ in support of the game. There are plenty of areas in any game that deserve criticism. Voicing my dissent is the only chance I have to impact the development; I'm not connected to the development industry. Whether I do or don't reach receptive ears isn't a matter for approval or derision.
I've made it know for several of the 'throwback' games (those games trying to turn back time to 1999), from EQ:N to Pantheon. People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. Those reasons haven't changed, as I expect many people will rapidly remember (or discover for the first time). Updated graphics aren't going to persuade people to forget the things they found boring in 2005, at least not for long. The success or failure of this game won't be determined at Launch Day, but rather at Launch + 6 or 12 months, so I'm definitely with you there.
There are definitely valid reasons for concern.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Pretty game. But I played a less-pretty version of this 17 years ago. It's still a pile of characters beating on a single mob at a time, with single adds mezzed and waiting for their beatdown to begin. What about packs of 4-8 mobs at a time? I've been bored with the 4-on-1 fight with 1 healer and 1 crowd controller for quite a long while now.
Beyond the pretty graphics, it's more of the same, nothing new or innovative.
Just how we like it
Just how you THINK you like it.
IMO - after several weeks you'll probably be thinking "I've played all this before... why am I doing this again?"
I've played P99 every day for years. I KNOW its what I like
And he would have us believe that he donated to this game lol. Just by his comment you quoted we know it's a big fat lie.
Embarrassing.
What's embarrassing is that you are quick to call me a liar just because you disagree with me, and quite possibly have an axe to grind with what I've said in the past?
That's embarrassing.
You can't even fathom the idea that I backed Pantheon and I can still be critical of the development decisions?
Backers can and SHOULD be critical - that's how things get better, if everyone just "ooohs" and "aaaahs" at anything developers say.... that's a lot more embarrassing isn't it?
I still play P99, I've played EQ1 since march of 1999 , I have over 7 years of "/played" time.
And yet I am not going to be blind to the fact that the playerbase that can stand to play that type of game has dwindled over the last 17 years and continue to do so every year.
It's a valid concern.
At least, @DMKano, you didn't get a developer give 'Agrees' to everyone who disagrees with you, even the snide, snarky comments which didn't address the point I was making.
And certainly, discussion of a game's development should be more than 'ooohs and aaaahs'[ in support of the game. There are plenty of areas in any game that deserve criticism. Voicing my dissent is the only chance I have to impact the development; I'm not connected to the development industry. Whether I do or don't reach receptive ears isn't a matter for approval or derision.
I've made it know for several of the 'throwback' games (those games trying to turn back time to 1999), from EQ:N to Pantheon. People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. Those reasons haven't changed, as I expect many people will rapidly remember (or discover for the first time). Updated graphics aren't going to persuade people to forget the things they found boring in 2005, at least not for long. The success or failure of this game won't be determined at Launch Day, but rather at Launch + 6 or 12 months, so I'm definitely with you there.
There are definitely valid reasons for concern.
Except there are people who like games that have larger time commitments. The trick is to figure out the audience and cater to them.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Why did the conversation naturally link more powerful mobs/focus on group content to slower progression? The two aren't inextricably linked.
Populate your world with big baddies to encourage grouping, increase the reward per big baddie to offset that decrease in numbers of defeated baddies. The result is a game that encourages grouping and the danger of a world filled with ferocious beasts without an astronomically large time sink required to progress.
To package it neatly: take any one dungeon from an MMORPG, exchange every pack of 4-5 trash mobs with 1-2 elite and/or boss type mobs or a pack of very intricately linked mobs (pack tactics, etc.) That bring different mechanics to the table. Take the XP and rewards from the original dungeon setup, intersperse it evenly among the new setup... Voila, a dungeon that encourages grouping and a sense of danger due to truly dangerous mobs without a resulting drop in progression rate for modern day players.
I didn't quit EQ because of time constraints due to life. I quit because the graphics are shit. So I wish people would stop assuming everyone stopped playing older games because of the time involved. I had a job and family while playing EQ originally and I currently still have a job and family. Pretty sure this will never change until I die. I would play original EQ in a heartbeat with modern graphics. I am not saying this is the reason everyone quit, but us graphics whores do exist. Like Sovrath stated there are some of us who like slower longer time commitment games. Pantheon has already been stated to be a niche game. They have an audience.
" People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. " -Mendel
They stopped playing them because manufacturers allowed groupthink to conquer all, and they started removing anything in games that cost them time to make and had hard-to-quantify effects on player enjoyment.
Graphics get old, challenges get old. Eventually you look for a new game, but what you can only find is a new game that is more simple, but better looking, than the game you played before it. You cannot play what they didn't make, and the accountants said features that have an artistic or immersive appeal were not something that could be easily gauged, and thus needed to be removed.
some casualties of the WoW success
-Trade with other players at location -Virtual World -In depth mechanics -realistic style graphics -detailed Non-combat activities -differentiation of characters
Add to this the already mentioned "quick and easy = so what" effect, and you have game worlds that are so diminished as to actually make the chat one of the major entertainment features of the game.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
Doesn't action based combat require timing, teamwork, and knowledge, in addition to 'twitch' ?
The simple answer is that the twitch part usually become the most important, and for me that takes the feeling of tactical control out, generally. Pvp does not interest me, which probably makes us view combat from completely different angles. I have not tried darkfall so I can't comment on that, but the only game with action combat where I have felt I was making tactical decisions that had weight was in Neverwinter coop (around launch, not sure how the game is today) playing as healer or control wizard, and even there half the time it was more duck n roll frantic chaos. So I am not saying there can't be timing, teamwork and some tactical depth included in twitch combat, its just the faster the pace the less weight they carry, in general.
I've made it know for several of the 'throwback' games (those games trying to turn back time to 1999), from EQ:N to Pantheon. People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. Those reasons haven't changed, as I expect many people will rapidly remember (or discover for the first time). Updated graphics aren't going to persuade people to forget the things they found boring in 2005, at least not for long. The success or failure of this game won't be determined at Launch Day, but rather at Launch + 6 or 12 months, so I'm definitely with you there.
There are definitely valid reasons for concern.
See you are incorrect in your statement as you make an assumption of everyone.
I played EQ from release to the Gates of Discord expansion. The reason I left... EQ2/WoW. I thought EQ2 an updated graphic EQ and it wasn't. I got bitter at SOE for what they did to the EQ franchise. WoW was fun for Vanilla and TBC but it was no EQ.
I played Vanguard during it's alpha and after it released.
I still play EQ on the TLP servers, and it is a good time.
I want the time sink. I want the sense of accomplishing a goal over the long term. I want to have a community and guild that think long term, and want to invest in it's people(you care find these rare guilds in other games,but the games don't have that draw of true investment).
I want EQ with update graphics and UI... I want long quests, long camps, long term friendships. Hell most of the friends I played with back in the day have that same desire. We just don't have that EQ or Vanguard around to bring us back together.
People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. Those reasons haven't changed.
Speak for yourself. You are entitled to say you don't like Pantheon and its Old School design. But you are not entitled to say we don't remember why we left EQ, do you understand you are basically looking down on other people and that's nothing to do with giving your personal opinion? Some of you guys, don't come here to criticize the game, but the people who follows it, treating them like they are some kind of dumb kids who don't know what they really want. Some people got fed up with EQ game play and actually hate it, that's the truth. Some others still like the concept but they simply can't play a 13 y/o game, is it too difficult to accept that?
The truth is that in this thread we are not even defending Pantheon so much as we spend most of our time defending our right to like something different than what you like.
"I like Anchovies" "No you don't really like Anchovies, they taste like fish, nobody likes them" "I am pretty sure I do......" "Nah you only think you do, but as soon as you taste them, you will realize you don't really like them"
That makes the premise for a very good debate.........doesn't it?
The point that some people here seem to be missing is that rewards gained with no efford gives no satisfaction, while things you put in efford to get rewards feeling of accomplishment. To say that effort in eq equal time is a rather simplistic way to view this, and if you feel that was what eq was about you quite frankly missed out. The pace should only be as slow as it is needed for players to feel the actions they choose in combat matters and as such they feel skillful in choosing and timing - If the pace goes up too much that feeling is lost (to lesser or higher degree).
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
Doesn't action based combat require timing, teamwork, and knowledge, in addition to 'twitch' skill?
People often associate action combat with 2-3 skill button mashing, circle strafing, and mouse clicks, but that's a rather shallow view of that system. An action combat system could easily have as many skills available as is found in a more traditional tab target system; Darkfall, despite its failings, proved that to be true.
I'm not really looking to argue for or against tab target vs action base combat, I just think suggesting action based combat = simplified, non-tactical combat is a misconception and grossly inaccurate
Not that I disagree with you or anything but there is simply very little time allotted for much thought and input. Most of it seems to be instinctual and any team work,timing,knowledge since it is twitch indicating a very short time to choose has to be made very quickly. It is simplified because it depends on snap decisions but that does not mean it is not skilful but I doubt it can be compared to when you have more time to consider and access a course of action.
What I am saying is that the very nature of twitch combat does not allow for too many complex actions to be processed since you have only seconds to act. You have to know what to do and be quite prepared and that makes it harder to allow more parameters or variables to affect the combat.
I really wish they would allow casters / healers to be mobile, no matter the speed of mana regen. That way dungeon crawling is an option just as viable as camping. No sitting required, mana regens the same rate whether moving to the next level or area or just sitting around and chatting with the group. Group mobility should not be encumbered by mana regeneration mechanics. I truly believe groups will be more inclined to explore and graze content more widely if they are just as efficient regenerating mana standing up as they are sitting down. Give people choices while still maintaining the combat pacing that old schoolers tend to prefer.
I really wish they would allow casters / healers to be mobile, no matter the speed of mana regen. That way dungeon crawling is an option just as viable as camping. No sitting required, mana regens the same rate whether moving to the next level or area or just sitting around and chatting with the group. Group mobility should not be encumbered by mana regeneration mechanics. I truly believe groups will be more inclined to explore and graze content more widely if they are just as efficient regenerating mana standing up as they are sitting down. Give people choices while still maintaining the combat pacing that old schoolers tend to prefer.
WHO enjoys sitting down for hours, looking at blue mana bar - watching red bars getting low - sitting up to make red bars full and then sitting down again for 99% of the time.
This is what makes having an enchanter in your group so valuable (you need their Clarity spell for quicker mana regen). You need to rely on other players to make your experience better to make your combined sets of abilities stronger. INTERDEPENDENCE
I really wish they would allow casters / healers to be mobile, no matter the speed of mana regen. That way dungeon crawling is an option just as viable as camping. No sitting required, mana regens the same rate whether moving to the next level or area or just sitting around and chatting with the group. Group mobility should not be encumbered by mana regeneration mechanics. I truly believe groups will be more inclined to explore and graze content more widely if they are just as efficient regenerating mana standing up as they are sitting down. Give people choices while still maintaining the combat pacing that old schoolers tend to prefer.
WHO enjoys sitting down for hours, looking at blue mana bar - watching red bars getting low - sitting up to make red bars full and then sitting down again for 99% of the time.
This is what makes having an enchanter in your group so valuable (you need their Clarity spell for quicker mana regen). You need to rely on other players to make your experience better to make your combined sets of abilities stronger. INTERDEPENDENCE
Even with Clarity the regen was too slow - healers still sat on their butts majority of the time.
Well of course they sit down, to get that extra regen bonus, every little bit counts... but at the cost of possibly drawing more aggro... It's all give and take...
I really wish they would allow casters / healers to be mobile, no matter the speed of mana regen. That way dungeon crawling is an option just as viable as camping. No sitting required, mana regens the same rate whether moving to the next level or area or just sitting around and chatting with the group. Group mobility should not be encumbered by mana regeneration mechanics. I truly believe groups will be more inclined to explore and graze content more widely if they are just as efficient regenerating mana standing up as they are sitting down. Give people choices while still maintaining the combat pacing that old schoolers tend to prefer.
WHO enjoys sitting down for hours, looking at blue mana bar - watching red bars getting low - sitting up to make red bars full and then sitting down again for 99% of the time.
This is what makes having an enchanter in your group so valuable (you need their Clarity spell for quicker mana regen). You need to rely on other players to make your experience better to make your combined sets of abilities stronger. INTERDEPENDENCE
Even with Clarity the regen was too slow - healers still sat on their butts majority of the time.
Well of course they sit down, to get that extra regen bonus, every little bit counts... but at the cost of possibly drawing more aggro... It's all give and take...
I do agree that "sitting" really isn't compelling game play.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not my style, but props to them for releasing a game play video with actual footage and comments on said footage.
To the people loving this, it looks like you are in good hands. This team looks dedicated and upfront about what they are offering which is non existent in this genre. I'll prob give this game a try, just because i support a team that shows some actual content!
I really wish they would allow casters / healers to be mobile, no matter the speed of mana regen. That way dungeon crawling is an option just as viable as camping. No sitting required, mana regens the same rate whether moving to the next level or area or just sitting around and chatting with the group. Group mobility should not be encumbered by mana regeneration mechanics. I truly believe groups will be more inclined to explore and graze content more widely if they are just as efficient regenerating mana standing up as they are sitting down. Give people choices while still maintaining the combat pacing that old schoolers tend to prefer.
WHO enjoys sitting down for hours, looking at blue mana bar - watching red bars getting low - sitting up to make red bars full and then sitting down again for 99% of the time.
This is what makes having an enchanter in your group so valuable (you need their Clarity spell for quicker mana regen). You need to rely on other players to make your experience better to make your combined sets of abilities stronger. INTERDEPENDENCE
Even with Clarity the regen was too slow - healers still sat on their butts majority of the time.
Well of course they sit down, to get that extra regen bonus, every little bit counts... but at the cost of possibly drawing more aggro... It's all give and take...
I do agree that "sitting" really isn't compelling game play.
It's not rabbit jumping twitch arcade play, that's for sure
Comments
Maybe a small thing, but sometimes it's those little things that can have a real subconscious impact.
Aenra, let's be honest, no Developer likes negative posts in their own Forums, that's why MMORPG.com is so important as a neutral place to discuss the games freely.
I also agree with you that sometimes Developers should listen more to their player base and be less defensive when they criticize their game.
Regarding the "Climbing Mechanics" I also agree that it is not strictly necessary in a MMO.
Having said that, you should be happy that VR is trying to revitalize the Old School concept and bring it to 21st Century standards.
I had countless discussion on these forums with people telling me that Old School is just a redundant and archaic design, unable to evolve and reinvent itself.
But when VR tries to do just that, and implement modern features in its design, people complains that they have no place in it.
VR is implementing this "Climbing mechanic" and Voice Chat in Pantheon.
Do I think they are necessary? No.
Do I think that's good we have them? Absolutely yes.
And I am looking forward for more of this stuff in Pantheon.
You stay sassy!
With that said, there are aspects that could use enhancing. UI, gameplay additions( fishing, farming, etc), housing in some form that does not negatively impact the game... things that will improve more social aspects and communities.
Heck, I love the perception system currently... it makes the world feel more organic, more alive. This is the kind of enhancements needed. Changing the combat mechanics to increase the appeal to a larger population is not a change I support. The genre doesn't need MMO #2546, it needs the next iteration of EQ/Vanguard.
Of course combat has to be fun and yes on that department eq can be improved, which for example vanguard did (and I am sure Pantheon will once combat matures) - BUT fast paced action combat as found in numerous mmos are exactly as repetetive and (for me) boring, because that often means simplified skill mechanics and lack of tactical depth.
For me circling around spammin 123 as fast as I can while ducking red circles also gets old and dull, unless it offers some tactical elements I feel require more than twitch skill. The slow combat offers other skill mastering than being able to react fast, such as timing, teamwork, knowledge and that is more rewarding to me.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
People often associate action combat with 2-3 skill button mashing, circle strafing, and mouse clicks, but that's a rather shallow view of that system. An action combat system could easily have as many skills available as is found in a more traditional tab target system; Darkfall, despite its failings, proved that to be true.
I'm not really looking to argue for or against tab target vs action base combat, I just think suggesting action based combat = simplified, non-tactical combat is a misconception and grossly inaccurate
Can't get my pen to write in this space.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Can't get my pen to write in this space.
And certainly, discussion of a game's development should be more than 'ooohs and aaaahs'[ in support of the game. There are plenty of areas in any game that deserve criticism. Voicing my dissent is the only chance I have to impact the development; I'm not connected to the development industry. Whether I do or don't reach receptive ears isn't a matter for approval or derision.
I've made it know for several of the 'throwback' games (those games trying to turn back time to 1999), from EQ:N to Pantheon. People have forgotten why they stopped playing these type of time-intensive games. Those reasons haven't changed, as I expect many people will rapidly remember (or discover for the first time). Updated graphics aren't going to persuade people to forget the things they found boring in 2005, at least not for long. The success or failure of this game won't be determined at Launch Day, but rather at Launch + 6 or 12 months, so I'm definitely with you there.
There are definitely valid reasons for concern.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Keep it up people.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Populate your world with big baddies to encourage grouping, increase the reward per big baddie to offset that decrease in numbers of defeated baddies. The result is a game that encourages grouping and the danger of a world filled with ferocious beasts without an astronomically large time sink required to progress.
To package it neatly: take any one dungeon from an MMORPG, exchange every pack of 4-5 trash mobs with 1-2 elite and/or boss type mobs or a pack of very intricately linked mobs (pack tactics, etc.) That bring different mechanics to the table. Take the XP and rewards from the original dungeon setup, intersperse it evenly among the new setup... Voila, a dungeon that encourages grouping and a sense of danger due to truly dangerous mobs without a resulting drop in progression rate for modern day players.
Graphics get old, challenges get old. Eventually you look for a new game, but what you can only find is a new game that is more simple, but better looking, than the game you played before it. You cannot play what they didn't make, and the accountants said features that have an artistic or immersive appeal were not something that could be easily gauged, and thus needed to be removed.
some casualties of the WoW success
-Trade with other players at location
-Virtual World
-In depth mechanics
-realistic style graphics
-detailed Non-combat activities
-differentiation of characters
Add to this the already mentioned "quick and easy = so what" effect, and you have game worlds that are so diminished as to actually make the chat one of the major entertainment features of the game.
So I am not saying there can't be timing, teamwork and some tactical depth included in twitch combat, its just the faster the pace the less weight they carry, in general.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I played EQ from release to the Gates of Discord expansion. The reason I left... EQ2/WoW. I thought EQ2 an updated graphic EQ and it wasn't. I got bitter at SOE for what they did to the EQ franchise. WoW was fun for Vanilla and TBC but it was no EQ.
I played Vanguard during it's alpha and after it released.
I still play EQ on the TLP servers, and it is a good time.
I want the time sink. I want the sense of accomplishing a goal over the long term. I want to have a community and guild that think long term, and want to invest in it's people(you care find these rare guilds in other games,but the games don't have that draw of true investment).
I want EQ with update graphics and UI... I want long quests, long camps, long term friendships. Hell most of the friends I played with back in the day have that same desire. We just don't have that EQ or Vanguard around to bring us back together.
You are entitled to say you don't like Pantheon and its Old School design.
But you are not entitled to say we don't remember why we left EQ, do you understand you are basically looking down on other people and that's nothing to do with giving your personal opinion?
Some of you guys, don't come here to criticize the game, but the people who follows it, treating them like they are some kind of dumb kids who don't know what they really want.
Some people got fed up with EQ game play and actually hate it, that's the truth.
Some others still like the concept but they simply can't play a 13 y/o game, is it too difficult to accept that?
The truth is that in this thread we are not even defending Pantheon so much as we spend most of our time defending our right to like something different than what you like.
"I like Anchovies"
"No you don't really like Anchovies, they taste like fish, nobody likes them"
"I am pretty sure I do......"
"Nah you only think you do, but as soon as you taste them, you will realize you don't really like them"
That makes the premise for a very good debate.........doesn't it?
What I am saying is that the very nature of twitch combat does not allow for too many complex actions to be processed since you have only seconds to act. You have to know what to do and be quite prepared and that makes it harder to allow more parameters or variables to affect the combat.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To the people loving this, it looks like you are in good hands. This team looks dedicated and upfront about what they are offering which is non existent in this genre. I'll prob give this game a try, just because i support a team that shows some actual content!