So an unfinished game then? Proving my point that you can rarely find that the negative naysayers understand the fundamentals of game development.
You are not making your point any better with that comment. I know the history of Richard Garriot and Starr Long, I know they can develop games, I grew up with the Ultima series and played and enjoyed UO.
Just the fact they had great success before doesn't mean they are untouchable from criticism though. When I say they don't know what they are doing I actually mean in a creative sort of way. This game is not what has been promised at the beginning, I don't even know what is supposed to be at this point. It's got no soul, to me is more like a Real Estate simulator than a Fantasy MMORPG. I don't know what they were thinking but they seems like they lost the way.....and their touch.
Trash !!! i had high hopes for Richard Garriot making a good MMO , he was the mastermind behind UO my favorite MMO but since UO all hes produced is crap ! i have came to the conclusion UO was a fluke! a accident of sort ....... shroud of the avatar looks ok, graphics dont matter alot to me but the gameplay ??? the combat is wonky card combat , and traveling view is just odd kinda ruins the game for me and all the instanced crap ?? come on Garriot pulled off the greatest sandbox ever 20 years ago and now this is like a spet back ....
I know the history of Richard Garriot and Starr Long, I know they can develop games, I grew up with the Ultima series and played and enjoyed UO.
We know they could make single-player RPGs. An MMO is questionable.
Garriott and Long left Origin less than three years after UO released, and somehow it survived another sixteen years without them.
They went on to create the shit-pile Tabula Rasa and now Shroud of the Avatar.
Not much MMO "industry vet" experience, if you ask me.
Actually, besides what you might choose to believe, Tabula Rasa was quite well received by both media and fans alike. However, it was the in-fighting and disagreements which ultimately killed the game. In the case of Tabula Rasa, it closed less than a year after RG left the company. It's quite the opposite extreme to UO. So I think it's highly unlikely that he had a significant impact in the success or failure of either. However, both games were well received, so it's obvious that he had some amount of influence on the quality of the game itself.
As far as SotA goes, it should be noted that the most recent reviews on Steam are listed as Very Positive. Also, the game is on sale for 50% off right now, so maybe it's a good time to give it a shot, assuming it's B2P. If nothing else, some of the ideas listed in the game is what some people say that they want to see in games. What the implementation looks like? I have no idea. For $20 bucks, though, it might be worth finding out.
What blows my mind is how people can be so critical of an unfinished product. Early access is definitely not for everyone, especially when they don't understand how development works. Trolls gotta be trolls though, there is no reasoning with them.
I will say in their defense, you don't really have to wait until a game is out to determine whether it's going the right direction for you. Personally not liking a game for specific reasons is a 100% valid criticism. The idea that just because you don't like it, that it's a bad game that's an invalid point.
For instance, I could easily point out the multitude of problems I have with Star Citizen, from the way the project's been run, to the engine they chose, to how I don't really think they've been good stewards of backer money. That said, there are somethings they've done well and some backers are legitimately happy with where the game's at. They're not wrong just because I take issue with the project, but neither am I really wrong for having problems with it despite it not being finished yet.
SotA's not going to be for everyone. Starr and Richard really objected early on when I called it a niche game, but that really is what it is, and I think it's symptomatic of something we're going to start seeing a lot more of over the next several years. Smaller studios are going to roll out games for specific audiences on smaller budgets. Tracy Hickman actually gave me the idea for that while having a conversation about how indie film studios broke the hold the massive production companies had on the movie industry 50-60 years ago. We're probably seeing something similar in the game industry right now.
THe biggest thing I've seen in every north American in development mmo struggling with are character models. They just keep struggling with them because as Americans we are taught not to genderize people so that part of looking at people in way that translates into art is almost gone in America. You will very rarely see artist study nudes or watch how the body moves. This is were other countries are over taking the mmo industry because they are freely allowed and unashamed to see and say , female, male, breasts, butts, penis, ect. I truly feel , most NA dev teams would do themselves a great service to get some overseas talent.
I totally disagree about artists in the US and across the world. Artists study human form, animal form, plant form, shapes, and it goes on.
Quality animators and animation development are expensive. Indies don't want to or have the money to spend on it so they often look subpar compared to modern AAA animations. That's what you're seeing here, in Pantheon, and other indie games.
Yeah, I agree with Torval on that one. That can't be a super common skill set, and I'm sure the movie industry pays a lot better than the video game industry does for it. That's not even considering the quality of the tools they have to work with.
Even if there were a lot of people playing, it would be hard to tell. The game is broken up into tons of mini-zones, there is no real capital where people have a reason to gather, and the people who do play are busy hanging out in their own towns. There's no world chat (apparently the backers felt that would be immersion-breaking, even if it were an opt-in choice) and it's really difficult to connect with anyone outside of your guild. It's like the game was designed to keep people apart.
Wouldn't be hard to tell, you'd be able to notice it through the changing supply and demand in the market. They're basically frozen at the moment and haven't seen any significant action since persistence started later this summer. Frozen economy = dead game.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
These devs on these shitshow projects are not 6-year-olds showing off macaroni pictures to mommy and daddy. These are people who claimed to have the capacity to build a product and accept money in advance on the premise that product is going to be presented in the form it's promoted, at the time they accept those funds, in a timely manner. We hold them to the standard of complete strangers, not friends or grandchildren.
Look, if you have a little more money than you know what to do with, if you want to be a little forgiving, fine. That's not how the real world operates. If people were just allowed to pull that kind of shit in every sector, we'd have buildings and bridges falling on peoples' heads. That's a load of horseshit.
What's also a load of horseshit is dismissing valid, substantiated claims the service is not meeting (or even close!) the advertised product. That is bad form, too popular in internet safe space. People are really angry when they're told one thing, give funding, and get something half-assed and late and told to shut up about it. It's not a god damned joke or a "fun pastime" to be expressing genuine disdain with the state of these garbage development projects.
You seem to be the only SotA marionette around. I guess they CAN afford you.
Probably because puppet strings are easily maintained and easy to replace.
So, anyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you do is a puppet? That's some greaaaaat logic right there. GG
What blows my mind is how people can be so critical of an unfinished product. Early access is definitely not for everyone, especially when they don't understand how development works. Trolls gotta be trolls though, there is no reasoning with them.
Oh, we understand how development works with this game. Get people to invest thousands of dollars individually into your EA, announce that there will be no more wipes, yet still claim that the game hasn't launched and use that as an excuse for it being a buggy, feature-lacking mess.
I would imagine playing the shill is much easier. You seem to be a lot better at it than what you call my trolling. The only question is how much are they paying you.
One has to wonder.
Well, I made comments in an earlier article that should give you a lower bound on what my annual income is. Why don't you see if you can find it, and take a guess at how much I'd have to be paid to just write an article I didn't want to, not even to influence my opinion.
In fact, how about a wager? You have a big mouth, but don't seem to ever manage to back it up.
It takes me about two hours to write one of these articles. Think you can guess how much two hours of my time might be worth?
Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Texas public records searches are slow and the site isn't very user friendly.
It would probably be easier to calculate if I knew how much from your LLC you were pumping into your non-profit.
Since you didn't crack the 500K mark and accounting for operating costs, I'd wager two hours of your time is worth roughly $104.16, maybe slightly less.
Not bad at all. That's actually just a few bucks short of my bill rate when I started the company. Very well done. My hourly rates are significantly better these days, thanks to an exceptional tax guy. Plus, I'm actually billable and don't actually take executive compensation out of the company, which is why your numbers are off.
But you know what, damn good and I'll give it to you. You researched and had good reasons for the guess. Pick the streamer of your choice and I'll make a donation in your name when I get back to town next week. Fire it to me on twitter ( @RedThomas_ ), and I'll make sure you're around to watch it.
Well, that's all fine and dandy, Red, but even if you had doubled your revenue, then two hours of your time would be sitting around the $220 mark. If Portalarium can't afford that, then they must be in real trouble. Where did all that money they pilfere....uh, I mean...stol...uh, I mean raised...yeah, yeah, that's it...raised...where did it all go?
Certainly not into the game.
Why don't you explain how it didn't go into the game. I'm intrigued!! You seem like you're very attuned to game development and have a great idea of what it costs to make one, so I'd love to hear what you have to say before I make a purchase decision. It seems like you have a lot of hate for this game, but I hear you talk more about Garriott than the game itself. However, most recent reviews are listed as Very Positive on steam as of late so I'm not sure why, as a buyer, I shouldn't buy into it.
Very Positive from the past 30 days of reviews. Try clicking the overall rating and you'll see 'Mixed'.
I guess Portalarium is still teaching its well-honed smoke and mirrors tools to the fanboys. gg
Maybe I should be more clear about what I meant by "going into the game"
No mounts, but...ghost dogs! Only $10 No efficient inventory management, but...fairy wings! Only $10 No decent combat mechanics, but...puke emotes! Only $15 Carbon-copy towns, but...POTs! Only $900+ Horrible UI, but...clockwork monkey pets! Only $15
Oh right, but it's "still in development", "not done yet", "unfinished", "alpha"...blah...blah...blah...even though the world is now persistent.
Because that's precicely when when you add fluff items...in "alpha". *boggle*
Players defending the game stating it's not finished yet and meant for a niche community.
Well that strategy will work out well. Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
Players defending the game stating it's not finished yet and meant for a niche community.
Well that strategy will work out well. Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
I'm debating that this has turned into a standard deflection phrase. "It's not bad it's simply not finished and only meant for special people."
If you can't see its greatness then you are simply not one of the chosen ones!
Why don't you explain how it didn't go into the game. I'm intrigued!! You seem like you're very attuned to game development and have a great idea of what it costs to make one, so I'd love to hear what you have to say before I make a purchase decision. It seems like you have a lot of hate for this game, but I hear you talk more about Garriott than the game itself. However, most recent reviews are listed as Very Positive on steam as of late so I'm not sure why, as a buyer, I shouldn't buy into it.
Very Positive from the past 30 days of reviews. Try clicking the overall rating and you'll see 'Mixed'.
I guess Portalarium is still teaching its well-honed smoke and mirrors tools to the fanboys. gg
Maybe I should be more clear about what I meant by "going into the game"
No mounts, but...ghost dogs! Only $10 No efficient inventory management, but...fairy wings! Only $10 No decent combat mechanics, but...puke emotes! Only $15 Carbon-copy towns, but...POTs! Only $900+ Horrible UI, but...clockwork monkey pets! Only $15
Oh right, but it's "still in development", "not done yet", "unfinished", "alpha"...blah...blah...blah...even though the world is now persistent.
Because that's precicely when when you add fluff items...in "alpha". *boggle*
I know that overall is mixed. I saw a LOT of bad reviews initially. From what I read it was quality concerns, which could easily be explained away with Alpha/Early Access, which is why I didn't buy it back then.
I don't know why someone raising money during their development boggles you. Are these your main concerns? Again, it seemed like you were very attuned to the development process, but can't wrap your head around the fact that there might be a couple people dedicated to making these cash shop items in order to pay for real development.
As for your other concerns about inventory management and combat mechanics, what is it specifically that was horrible about it? Has it been improved since you last played?
As for the other things, I don't really care about UI because that's a cosmetic layer, it's not something that is deeply-rooted in the infrastructure. Should be easily fixed over time. However, if there are horrible core mechanics, it's something I'd like to know about before getting into it.
As far as your complaints about $900 carbon copy towns, again, don't care. Honestly, it sounds like you're really hung up on the whole monetization thing, but I don't know why you'd expect any less.
Players defending the game stating it's not finished yet and meant for a niche community.
Well that strategy will work out well. Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
I'm debating that this has turned into a standard deflection phrase. "It's not bad it's simply not finished and only meant for special people."
If you can't see its greatness then you are simply not one of the chosen ones!
And how are you helping the situation by attacking it from another extremist position? It could very well be that this is something that is niche, I don't know. Based on what I've read, it does seem like a niche game. Also, I don't feel like it's a cop-out to say it's in development. There have been plenty of shitty games in EA which have been removed from Steam because of their quality and lack of effort. If you're an expert on the subject of game development and feel like you could contribute something actually useful, rather than just piling on the hate train, I'd love to hear it, as a potential customer.
Players defending the game stating it's not finished yet and meant for a niche community.
Well that strategy will work out well. Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
I'm debating that this has turned into a standard deflection phrase. "It's not bad it's simply not finished and only meant for special people."
If you can't see its greatness then you are simply not one of the chosen ones!
And how are you helping the situation by attacking it from another extremist position? It could very well be that this is something that is niche, I don't know. Based on what I've read, it does seem like a niche game. Also, I don't feel like it's a cop-out to say it's in development. There have been plenty of shitty games in EA which have been removed from Steam because of their quality and lack of effort. If you're an expert on the subject of game development and feel like you could contribute something actually useful, rather than just piling on the hate train, I'd love to hear it, as a potential customer.
Why would I help it? It's not my fault when devs go ahead and make shitty games.
But stating the obvious is "piling on the hate" train I guess.
Players defending the game stating it's not finished yet and meant for a niche community.
Well that strategy will work out well. Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
I'm debating that this has turned into a standard deflection phrase. "It's not bad it's simply not finished and only meant for special people."
If you can't see its greatness then you are simply not one of the chosen ones!
And how are you helping the situation by attacking it from another extremist position? It could very well be that this is something that is niche, I don't know. Based on what I've read, it does seem like a niche game. Also, I don't feel like it's a cop-out to say it's in development. There have been plenty of shitty games in EA which have been removed from Steam because of their quality and lack of effort. If you're an expert on the subject of game development and feel like you could contribute something actually useful, rather than just piling on the hate train, I'd love to hear it, as a potential customer.
Why would I help it? It's not my fault when devs go ahead and make shitty games.
But stating the obvious is "piling on the hate" train I guess.
No, you specifically stated that people who defend games feel like it's niche and that you can't see it because you're not a "chosen one". I'm just trying to establish where your issue is, with games, or if you feel this commentary on society. I specifically called you out as taking an extremist position, so I'm not commenting on the game at all. I think it's definitely an issue with people, not necessarily a game. It happens all over the Internet. For every game that you feel is "shitty", there's probably a game which is equally as shitty, but people just think it's the best fucking thing ever! So what I'm really trying to figure out here is whether you're hating just because everyone seems to be doing it here, or if you have some experience with the game in question that you could enlighten me with, as a customer looking to make a purchase decision while it's on sale for 50% off..... assuming Steam comes back online.
Why would I help it? It's not my fault when devs go ahead and make shitty games.
But stating the obvious is "piling on the hate" train I guess.
It's the standard rhetoric with the SotA hype train. You just have to look between the lines to see the fear of a possible lost investment on the whales faces.
I know that overall is mixed. I saw a LOT of bad reviews initially. From what I read it was quality concerns, which could easily be explained away with Alpha/Early Access, which is why I didn't buy it back then.
I don't know why someone raising money during their development boggles you. Are these your main concerns? Again, it seemed like you were very attuned to the development process, but can't wrap your head around the fact that there might be a couple people dedicated to making these cash shop items in order to pay for real development.
As for your other concerns about inventory management and combat mechanics, what is it specifically that was horrible about it? Has it been improved since you last played?
As for the other things, I don't really care about UI because that's a cosmetic layer, it's not something that is deeply-rooted in the infrastructure. Should be easily fixed over time. However, if there are horrible core mechanics, it's something I'd like to know about before getting into it.
As far as your complaints about $900 carbon copy towns, again, don't care. Honestly, it sounds like you're really hung up on the whole monetization thing, but I don't know why you'd expect any less.
We can go round and round forever, so...
I'd rather the community speaks. Here is a link to a very nice repository set up by an early supporter, who managed to screenshot all the threads he/she knew would get moderated, shut down, or hidden beforehand.
Let's let the disgruntled backers and the elitist whales speak for themselves. I HIGHLY recommend anyone considering funding this "game" read here first.
Why would I help it? It's not my fault when devs go ahead and make shitty games.
But stating the obvious is "piling on the hate" train I guess.
It's the standard rhetoric with the SotA hype train. You just have to look between the lines to see the fear of a possible lost investment on the whales faces.
I know that overall is mixed. I saw a LOT of bad reviews initially. From what I read it was quality concerns, which could easily be explained away with Alpha/Early Access, which is why I didn't buy it back then.
I don't know why someone raising money during their development boggles you. Are these your main concerns? Again, it seemed like you were very attuned to the development process, but can't wrap your head around the fact that there might be a couple people dedicated to making these cash shop items in order to pay for real development.
As for your other concerns about inventory management and combat mechanics, what is it specifically that was horrible about it? Has it been improved since you last played?
As for the other things, I don't really care about UI because that's a cosmetic layer, it's not something that is deeply-rooted in the infrastructure. Should be easily fixed over time. However, if there are horrible core mechanics, it's something I'd like to know about before getting into it.
As far as your complaints about $900 carbon copy towns, again, don't care. Honestly, it sounds like you're really hung up on the whole monetization thing, but I don't know why you'd expect any less.
We can go round and round forever, so...
I'd rather the community speaks. Here is a link to a very nice repository set up by an early supporter, who managed to screenshot all the threads he/she knew would get moderated, shut down, or hidden beforehand.
Let's let the disgruntled backers and the elitist whales speak for themselves. I HIGHLY recommend anyone considering funding this "game" read here first.
So your solution to answer my direct question of what your problem with combat mechanics and inventory management is to link me to a forum where there hasn't been activity in like a year? Cool bro! Thanks!
Does anyone have a current state of game that they could lend me? Specifically, what were these issues this guy was talking about and have they since been resolved to some degree? Or are there plans to resolve?
CrazKanuk said: So your solution to answer my direct question of what your problem with combat mechanics and inventory management is to link me to a forum where there hasn't been activity in like a year? Cool bro! Thanks!
You can read what I said in any of those threads about my frustrations with the game. I'm not going to repeat them here. Use the link, download the PDFs, and read if you want to know. They are the same issues I've been complaining about for the past three years.
If you can't read or too lazy to read, then those are different problems that I can't help you with.
CrazKanuk said: So your solution to answer my direct question of what your problem with combat mechanics and inventory management is to link me to a forum where there hasn't been activity in like a year? Cool bro! Thanks!
You can read what I said in any of those threads about my frustrations with the game. I'm not going to repeat them here. Use the link, download the PDFs, and read if you want to know. They are the same issues I've been complaining about for the past three years.
If you can't read or too lazy to read, then those are different problems that I can't help you with.
Ok, so I'd ask whether you read this or not? Does this seem like someone who is impartial? Also, I'm not all that interested in reading about issues from a year ago. Hey, I'm fine if you don't really have an honest, current idea of how the game plays, I just observed that most of the recent comments seemed positive and maybe I'd give it a shot.
Just for future reference, though, it's probably not great to go around calling people paid shills when you don't really seem to be an expert on why YOU'RE upset with the game. I would have been fine if you had said "I really don't know what the current state is, but when I played it was shit because of these reasons." Instead, you have me on a wild goose chase looking up information that's over a year old, probably because you had to do some frantic Google search. Like just tell me you don't know so I can get some information from someone who actually knows something. Fuck! Thanks for wasting my time.
Does anyone have a clue what the current state of the game is? At this point I probably could justify just buying the fucking thing and literally never playing it and I would have come out ahead.
I would have been fine if you had said "I really don't know what the current state is, but when I played it was shit because of these reasons." Instead, you have me on a wild goose chase looking up information that's over a year old, probably because you had to do some frantic Google search.
All you have to do if you want more recent discussion on that board is go up a few levels, but apparently you're too lazy to do that as well.
Again, still not my problem to spoon-feed someone information. I've given all you need to educate yourself.
If you want to read, do so. If not, then don't. Simple as that, really.
There are a lot of haters out there that can't deal with development stage and my advice for them is stop playing until Port 'Officially' set a release/launch date and jump in then. Persistence is not launch and one of the main motivation for persistence was to begin setting up the Economy and Land Rush to fill up the towns with homes.
What I see every release though is a lot of changes and work done. You just need to look over the Release Logs. They are working hard and trying their best.
One thing that's very noticeable and arks up a lot of talk is the 'Pendulum Swing' thing they do. Example is when they introduce something in a Release which is very apparently over powered and everyone begins using it in the masses and then 2 releases later they Nurf it (hard) and everyone complains. But then focus on another aspect of the game mechanics and do the same. My theory is closer to Release everything tested will be set somewhere in the middle of that pendulum swing.
But that is their style of testing/development by seeing both sides of the extreme and then take it out of the picture for a while to bring something else to focus.
I still have some concerns with the combat system. Not a big fan of the receptacle/target jumping around like it does. Prefer my targets locked but that may change and my preference.
I do really like the Deck/Card system now that I understand it better.
If you're thinking to play this game as a new person be prepared to find your own help with guides online or through forums and YouTube videos as their tutorial isn't really up to scratch.
Actually talk with other players online. They call themselves Hospitalers and usually have a title above their head who are happy to answer questions.
Hope this help. Just remember games still in development so treat it that way. And remember the best thing about a B2P game is you can stop and come back at anytime. No subscription
Comments
I know the history of Richard Garriot and Starr Long, I know they can develop games, I grew up with the Ultima series and played and enjoyed UO.
Just the fact they had great success before doesn't mean they are untouchable from criticism though.
When I say they don't know what they are doing I actually mean in a creative sort of way.
This game is not what has been promised at the beginning, I don't even know what is supposed to be at this point.
It's got no soul, to me is more like a Real Estate simulator than a Fantasy MMORPG.
I don't know what they were thinking but they seems like they lost the way.....and their touch.
Garriott and Long left Origin less than three years after UO released, and somehow it survived another sixteen years without them.
They went on to create the shit-pile Tabula Rasa and now Shroud of the Avatar.
Not much MMO "industry vet" experience, if you ask me.
~~ postlarval ~~
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Actually, besides what you might choose to believe, Tabula Rasa was quite well received by both media and fans alike. However, it was the in-fighting and disagreements which ultimately killed the game. In the case of Tabula Rasa, it closed less than a year after RG left the company. It's quite the opposite extreme to UO. So I think it's highly unlikely that he had a significant impact in the success or failure of either. However, both games were well received, so it's obvious that he had some amount of influence on the quality of the game itself.
As far as SotA goes, it should be noted that the most recent reviews on Steam are listed as Very Positive. Also, the game is on sale for 50% off right now, so maybe it's a good time to give it a shot, assuming it's B2P. If nothing else, some of the ideas listed in the game is what some people say that they want to see in games. What the implementation looks like? I have no idea. For $20 bucks, though, it might be worth finding out.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I will say in their defense, you don't really have to wait until a game is out to determine whether it's going the right direction for you. Personally not liking a game for specific reasons is a 100% valid criticism. The idea that just because you don't like it, that it's a bad game that's an invalid point.
For instance, I could easily point out the multitude of problems I have with Star Citizen, from the way the project's been run, to the engine they chose, to how I don't really think they've been good stewards of backer money. That said, there are somethings they've done well and some backers are legitimately happy with where the game's at. They're not wrong just because I take issue with the project, but neither am I really wrong for having problems with it despite it not being finished yet.
SotA's not going to be for everyone. Starr and Richard really objected early on when I called it a niche game, but that really is what it is, and I think it's symptomatic of something we're going to start seeing a lot more of over the next several years. Smaller studios are going to roll out games for specific audiences on smaller budgets. Tracy Hickman actually gave me the idea for that while having a conversation about how indie film studios broke the hold the massive production companies had on the movie industry 50-60 years ago. We're probably seeing something similar in the game industry right now.
Wouldn't be hard to tell, you'd be able to notice it through the changing supply and demand in the market. They're basically frozen at the moment and haven't seen any significant action since persistence started later this summer. Frozen economy = dead game.
The contents of this post do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com and its management.
smh.
These devs on these shitshow projects are not 6-year-olds showing off macaroni pictures to mommy and daddy. These are people who claimed to have the capacity to build a product and accept money in advance on the premise that product is going to be presented in the form it's promoted, at the time they accept those funds, in a timely manner. We hold them to the standard of complete strangers, not friends or grandchildren.
Look, if you have a little more money than you know what to do with, if you want to be a little forgiving, fine. That's not how the real world operates. If people were just allowed to pull that kind of shit in every sector, we'd have buildings and bridges falling on peoples' heads. That's a load of horseshit.
What's also a load of horseshit is dismissing valid, substantiated claims the service is not meeting (or even close!) the advertised product. That is bad form, too popular in internet safe space. People are really angry when they're told one thing, give funding, and get something half-assed and late and told to shut up about it. It's not a god damned joke or a "fun pastime" to be expressing genuine disdain with the state of these garbage development projects.
Oh, we understand how development works with this game. Get people to invest thousands of dollars individually into your EA, announce that there will be no more wipes, yet still claim that the game hasn't launched and use that as an excuse for it being a buggy, feature-lacking mess.
Well that strategy will work out well.
Ask the Pathfinder Online community.
I guess Portalarium is still teaching its well-honed smoke and mirrors tools to the fanboys. gg
Maybe I should be more clear about what I meant by "going into the game"
No mounts, but...ghost dogs! Only $10
No efficient inventory management, but...fairy wings! Only $10
No decent combat mechanics, but...puke emotes! Only $15
Carbon-copy towns, but...POTs! Only $900+
Horrible UI, but...clockwork monkey pets! Only $15
Oh right, but it's "still in development", "not done yet", "unfinished", "alpha"...blah...blah...blah...even though the world is now persistent.
Because that's precicely when when you add fluff items...in "alpha". *boggle*
~~ postlarval ~~
This is what makes Early Access not work, though, and it's the reason why there were NDAs surrounding testing "back in the day". I've done my time in the trenches of testing, so I'm ok with it not being finished, if I decide to play it before it's done. As for the niche community aspect, are you debating that it is NOT a game that is targeted at a niche community? If not, then why would you say that?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"It's not bad it's simply not finished and only meant for special people."
If you can't see its greatness then you are simply not one of the chosen ones!
I know that overall is mixed. I saw a LOT of bad reviews initially. From what I read it was quality concerns, which could easily be explained away with Alpha/Early Access, which is why I didn't buy it back then.
I don't know why someone raising money during their development boggles you. Are these your main concerns? Again, it seemed like you were very attuned to the development process, but can't wrap your head around the fact that there might be a couple people dedicated to making these cash shop items in order to pay for real development.
As for your other concerns about inventory management and combat mechanics, what is it specifically that was horrible about it? Has it been improved since you last played?
As for the other things, I don't really care about UI because that's a cosmetic layer, it's not something that is deeply-rooted in the infrastructure. Should be easily fixed over time. However, if there are horrible core mechanics, it's something I'd like to know about before getting into it.
As far as your complaints about $900 carbon copy towns, again, don't care. Honestly, it sounds like you're really hung up on the whole monetization thing, but I don't know why you'd expect any less.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
And how are you helping the situation by attacking it from another extremist position? It could very well be that this is something that is niche, I don't know. Based on what I've read, it does seem like a niche game. Also, I don't feel like it's a cop-out to say it's in development. There have been plenty of shitty games in EA which have been removed from Steam because of their quality and lack of effort. If you're an expert on the subject of game development and feel like you could contribute something actually useful, rather than just piling on the hate train, I'd love to hear it, as a potential customer.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It's not my fault when devs go ahead and make shitty games.
But stating the obvious is "piling on the hate" train I guess.
No, you specifically stated that people who defend games feel like it's niche and that you can't see it because you're not a "chosen one". I'm just trying to establish where your issue is, with games, or if you feel this commentary on society. I specifically called you out as taking an extremist position, so I'm not commenting on the game at all. I think it's definitely an issue with people, not necessarily a game. It happens all over the Internet. For every game that you feel is "shitty", there's probably a game which is equally as shitty, but people just think it's the best fucking thing ever! So what I'm really trying to figure out here is whether you're hating just because everyone seems to be doing it here, or if you have some experience with the game in question that you could enlighten me with, as a customer looking to make a purchase decision while it's on sale for 50% off..... assuming Steam comes back online.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
CrazKanuk said: We can go round and round forever, so...
I'd rather the community speaks. Here is a link to a very nice repository set up by an early supporter, who managed to screenshot all the threads he/she knew would get moderated, shut down, or hidden beforehand.
Let's let the disgruntled backers and the elitist whales speak for themselves. I HIGHLY recommend anyone considering funding this "game" read here first.
http://shroudunlimited.boards.net/board/8/vault
~~ postlarval ~~
So your solution to answer my direct question of what your problem with combat mechanics and inventory management is to link me to a forum where there hasn't been activity in like a year? Cool bro! Thanks!
Does anyone have a current state of game that they could lend me? Specifically, what were these issues this guy was talking about and have they since been resolved to some degree? Or are there plans to resolve?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
If you can't read or too lazy to read, then those are different problems that I can't help you with.
~~ postlarval ~~
Ok, so I'd ask whether you read this or not? Does this seem like someone who is impartial? Also, I'm not all that interested in reading about issues from a year ago. Hey, I'm fine if you don't really have an honest, current idea of how the game plays, I just observed that most of the recent comments seemed positive and maybe I'd give it a shot.
Just for future reference, though, it's probably not great to go around calling people paid shills when you don't really seem to be an expert on why YOU'RE upset with the game. I would have been fine if you had said "I really don't know what the current state is, but when I played it was shit because of these reasons." Instead, you have me on a wild goose chase looking up information that's over a year old, probably because you had to do some frantic Google search. Like just tell me you don't know so I can get some information from someone who actually knows something. Fuck! Thanks for wasting my time.
Does anyone have a clue what the current state of the game is? At this point I probably could justify just buying the fucking thing and literally never playing it and I would have come out ahead.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Again, still not my problem to spoon-feed someone information. I've given all you need to educate yourself.
If you want to read, do so. If not, then don't. Simple as that, really.
~~ postlarval ~~
What I see every release though is a lot of changes and work done. You just need to look over the Release Logs. They are working hard and trying their best.
One thing that's very noticeable and arks up a lot of talk is the 'Pendulum Swing' thing they do. Example is when they introduce something in a Release which is very apparently over powered and everyone begins using it in the masses and then 2 releases later they Nurf it (hard) and everyone complains. But then focus on another aspect of the game mechanics and do the same. My theory is closer to Release everything tested will be set somewhere in the middle of that pendulum swing.
But that is their style of testing/development by seeing both sides of the extreme and then take it out of the picture for a while to bring something else to focus.
I still have some concerns with the combat system. Not a big fan of the receptacle/target jumping around like it does. Prefer my targets locked but that may change and my preference.
I do really like the Deck/Card system now that I understand it better.
If you're thinking to play this game as a new person be prepared to find your own help with guides online or through forums and YouTube videos as their tutorial isn't really up to scratch.
Actually talk with other players online. They call themselves Hospitalers and usually have a title above their head who are happy to answer questions.
Hope this help. Just remember games still in development so treat it that way. And remember the best thing about a B2P game is you can stop and come back at anytime. No subscription
Nice write up btw @Red_Thomas