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Subscribe to play is as bad as pay to win

135

Comments

  • bruevitzbruevitz Member UncommonPosts: 57
    Gdemami said:
    Loke666 said:
    The higher sub price the more money you get from each subscriber but the lower the price the more subscribers you get.
    Economics fallacy 101...
    Sadly, a drop of 33% of price does not always resulted in 33% increase of consumer. Keep in mind, even though the player base (consumer) is large, not all of them would be a loyal customer.

    Business is about getting money from the loyal customers which will continue to subscribe for years, not just for a month or two.

    Secondly, having more customer also means having more complaints, suggestions, cheaters, hackers, and so on. Which means more operational costs.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    Iselin said:
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    Club is real life..mmo is game...

    u cant own a club.. but u can own a game...

    subs is like rent....buy is like owning it..

    i never said i want free to play game
  • teakbois2112teakbois2112 Member UncommonPosts: 51
    Best option is buy to play with 30 days free trial. with cosmetics shop

    Not everyone is rich like american. Especially south east asia players. 
    Its an awful option because there simply isnt enough money in this model to support long term sustainability with lots of content updates.
  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,523
    Gdemami said:
    k61977 said:
    Personally I feel like if you can't afford $15 a month for a sub you should find another hobby really because you have many other issues in your life that need to be fixed.
    15? Why not 5? Or 8, 22, 61, 532, 2144?

    The only issue here is that some people are unable to deal with the fact that people get what they pay for and there are others that spent more than they are.
    I picked that number because it is the base sub model used for years.  I am all for higher or lower sub prices myself.  If a game is just above and beyond I would be very happy to pay more.  But the same goes for a game that is just ok I would expect to pay less.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Iselin said:
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    Club is real life..mmo is game...

    u cant own a club.. but u can own a game...

    subs is like rent....buy is like owning it..

    i never said i want free to play game
    Spending money on things you like is real life. Whether that's a continuing or a monthly payment or one time purchase or a club or a game is irrelevant.

    You pay your ISP monthly don't you? So what's the difference between paying monthly to have internet access or MMO access? 

    One thing may be worth it to you and something else may not but that's a whole different question.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    I expected a decent argument from OP, but it's just whining.  Nothing in the post touched on the paid advantages of either model.
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    DMKano said:
    Ridelynn said:
    While not specifically Southeast Asia, ~most~ of the largest games out there, and in particular MMOs, today are based out of the east - not US/EU culture right now.

    Tencent is probably the biggest video game company in the world right now, and it's Asian. It either owns or has distribution rights to many very popular titles, many of the worlds most popular online games, and even owns a very large stake in Blizzard. So you could even say WoW is definitely pivoting away from strictly US/EU culture (and if you don't believe that, Mists of Pandaria says Hello).

    Perfect World is another Asian company that has a lot of MMOs. It owns Cryptic Studios, which you could say those MMOs were developed in US/EU markets, but PWI has published many, many more MMOs than just what Cryptic has to offer.

    FFXIV is definitely not Western - coming largely from Japanese culture. I realize Japanese culture isn't the same as SEA, but you also can't really lump it in there with US/EU either.

    NCSoft, Webzen, and Nexon are all huge MMO publishers, all based out of Korea (again, not the same as SEA, but definitely not US/EU). I'd accept that Guildwars and Wildstar are Western-developed though, because ArenaNet and Carbine are US subsidiaries, but they are still published by NCSoft, so there's still some non-US influence in there. The Lineage line is sitll one of the most popular MMOs in the world.

    I would even go so far as to argue that My.com, which is largely Russian, doesn't exactly cater to what the typical "Western" game would contain.

    As far as Western MMOs go - Trion is still kicking around, Daybreak is back in US ownership (although it still developed largely for a western audience even when owned by Sony, and who knows how much longer it will be around anyway). Bioware remains pretty strongly Western. Zenimax is largely Western influenced. Cryptic remains more or less Western oriented in content, but has definitely adopted an Asian-style billing model. Blizzard has really started to go more international, but we don't see it as prevelent because they highly regionalize their products. Carbine Studios was pretty heavily western influenced, even though it was published by NCSoft (and in their hubris to copy what they thought made "Vanilla" WoW so popular, cratered and probably won't live through that disaster). ArenaNet I'd say still is largely Western.

    Past that list, I'm struggling to come up with names of titles that have had a lot of success. There are a lot of startups/indie titles that are pretty heavily Western - but I'm sure there are just as many Asian-influenced titles out there, and they just aren't getting press on this site because this site is largely a Western audience. 

    I agree with a lot of what you said - just want to say one thing:

    Tencent is a Chinese owned company, yes with many global assets, but no need to say "Asian" - it's Chinese.
    You are right, it is Chinese. Is it bigoted of me if I think of China as Asian? 

    Likewise when I say Western - if I don't specify a country, I really mean "American, and hey, yeah a lot of North America and Europe comes along for the ride". When I say Asian, I really mean "China, and hey, a lot of the rest of that part of the world comes along for the ride".

    That may be politically incorrect of me to think that. But I do. 
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    Loke666 said:
    I know, but it seems that it isn't obvious to everyone. 
    Yes, especially you....
  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    Iselin said:
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    Club is real life..mmo is game...

    u cant own a club.. but u can own a game...

    subs is like rent....buy is like owning it..

    i never said i want free to play game
    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    Ridelynn said:
    Iselin said:
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    Club is real life..mmo is game...

    u cant own a club.. but u can own a game...

    subs is like rent....buy is like owning it..

    i never said i want free to play game
    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    Ridelynn said:
    Iselin said:
    Recore said:
    I would never pay a monthly fee for a mmo unless it was something totally amazing.
    I'm guessing you've never been a member of a club or organization that has monthly or yearly dues.
    Club is real life..mmo is game...

    u cant own a club.. but u can own a game...

    subs is like rent....buy is like owning it..

    i never said i want free to play game
    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    still buy is better than rent (sub)

    what if im broke that month? no game for me?
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    cura said:
    4507 said:
    cura said:
    For me, the best option would be cheap subscription, like $5 or $10 at most, without any cash shop. I like level playing field for everyone, but fifteen bucks is too much considering cost of server infrastructure went down greatly in last fifteen+ years while mmos remained more or less the same.
    No cash shop and a cheaper subscription? Try pitching that to investors.

    Game companies are not non-profits. Just because you can operate a game at $5-10 doesn't mean it makes any financial sense to do so.
    Perhaps, but it doesnt make any financial sense to pay $15 a month for same old stuff to me. I could pay twice that if anybody came with something worth it.

    The quality of the theoretical MMO in question was never indicated. Does this mean your best option, given your ideal MMO, is $30?
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338

    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    still buy is better than rent (sub)

    what if im broke that month? no game for me?
    You make it sound like being able to play on a virtual world with regular updates is a humans basic right. 

    So no, if you are broke that month--no virtual world with regular updates-- for you. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680

    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    still buy is better than rent (sub)

    what if im broke that month? no game for me?
    You make it sound like being able to play on a virtual world with regular updates is a humans basic right. 

    So no, if you are broke that month--no virtual world with regular updates-- for you. 
    that worst than pay to win

    u actually pay just to play? no thx
  • Abuz0rAbuz0r Member UncommonPosts: 550
    Words of someone who can't get their moms credit card number and doesn't mind losing so long as they can play.
  • TatsuyaHirokiTatsuyaHiroki Member UncommonPosts: 108

    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    still buy is better than rent (sub)

    what if im broke that month? no game for me?
    You make it sound like being able to play on a virtual world with regular updates is a humans basic right. 

    So no, if you are broke that month--no virtual world with regular updates-- for you. 
    that worst than pay to win

    u actually pay just to play? no thx


    Then dont, have fun with free to play but pay to win nickle and dime games

    Not saying having a sub in each and every mmo is a good thing, especially when many games are nothing more than glorified wow clones with some slight skin changes, but its still a least bitter pill to swallow than the microtransactionfest.

    image

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521

    No, you don't own any of your games. You pay to license the game binary and assets for your own personal use, you only own whatever box and physical media that happened to come with it. 

    Yes, you can own a club. In fact, I don't know of any clubs that don't have some sort of ownership.

    You can own a game, but that means something entirely different than what you are thinking - it means you created it or funded its development, and you then own the code, the IP (or license to existing IP), the rights, and everything that goes with the game. It's not impossible but is unusual for an individual to own the rights to a game, especially a AAA game.
    still buy is better than rent (sub)

    what if im broke that month? no game for me?
    You make it sound like being able to play on a virtual world with regular updates is a humans basic right. 

    So no, if you are broke that month--no virtual world with regular updates-- for you. 
    that worst than pay to win

    u actually pay just to play? no thx


    That's what is confusing about your argument. Gaming is so important that you would not want to go without it for a month, yet you would rather have that experience cheapened by a P2W system. I mean if P2W doesn't bother you that much then great, you've found your ideal model. You can play for free due to whales being able to pay for power. The way you worded this thread was confusing though because it indicates that P2W was a bad thing in your eyes.


    Honestly, based upon your last couple OPs I think you like to start hot button issue threads and trail them along ;)

  • IshkalIshkal Member UncommonPosts: 304

    micro transactions are a scam an if you don't get that by now there is no hope. If you don't get it here it is, micro transaction games come out to more than a monthly sub to be competitive or to participate in end game. They try to milk you for a years worth of sub in a short time before you realize what crap the game truly is. Then usually the game will shut down or become a ghost town, but they don't care they got the money they wanted time to toss you a new game and repeat or up the need on the cash shop for the suckers that still play cause they know you hooked and will pay lolz.

  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    edited January 2017
    Abuz0r said:
    Words of someone who can't get their moms credit card number and doesn't mind losing so long as they can play.
    isn't mmo is play for the community? not who the strongest. it doesn't mean anything if u are strongest in a daed gaem. gg. thats why lol and dota 2 so popular. it is free/buy to play hero and who win actually has skills
  • G3NexisG3Nexis Member UncommonPosts: 85
    My personal opinion - I honestly prefer the days when you had to buy the game you wanted to play and then signup for a monthly subscription. There were not cash shops / pay to win / blahblah... You just paid $10 - $15 a month and enjoyed the game. Typically a free month was given as well so if you decided you did not like the game you did not need to spend any money on the monthly fee.

    Alot of people who I talk to think that a monthly subscription is absolutely absurd which I never understand. If you think about it, $15 for a month's worth of entertainment is an amazing deal and you don't need to worry about wallet warriors taking over the server. I would challenge anyone to come up with something that can provide as much entertainment over a 30 day period for such a low price.

    Honestly if you are so strapped for cash that you can't afford $15 a month for something you really want to play to keep you entertained maybe you shouldn't be sitting around playing games in the first place and go make some money. When I was 10 years old playing Everquest 1 I would literally rake leaves and mow peoples lawns to afford my monthly subscription for the game. I honestly only had to spend 1 weekend a month doing that to afford the subscription by the way as a 10 year old.

    Just my opinion though.





  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    edited January 2017
    subs is not bad if, its not count on month, but hours.

    example

    1 month subs = 30 days = 720 hours

    means it will count on hours i play. the count start as i start playing my toon, not on login screen

    because, some month im extremely busy and cant play the game.

    example: on january im very busy, i probably can only play 5 days, 1-2 hours a day only. but in february im free and can play all days
  • LoudWisperLoudWisper Member UncommonPosts: 76
    monthly is better.  IMO 

    I cant believe people think this fad of micro transactions is better.  crazy  
  • G3NexisG3Nexis Member UncommonPosts: 85
    subs is not bad if, its not count on month, but hours.

    example

    1 month subs = 30 days = 720 hours

    means it will count on hours i play. the count start as i start playing my toon, not on login screen

    because, some month im extremely busy and cant play the game.

    example: on january im very busy, i probably can only play 5 days, 1-2 hours a day only. but in february im free and can play all days
    Okay but in terms of Money and Time... $15 for 5 - 10 hours of entertainment is still a good deal.

    A few examples for you...

    To go see a movie at a theater that is about $12 - $15 for a ticket... If you bring a date double that. Snacks and crap another $15 - $25. So for maybe 3 hours of entertainment you just dropped a clean $30 - $50.

    Lets say you want to go to the bar with some friends one evening.  From my experience on a calm night at the bar or a club on a Friday night I would be lucky to leave having only spent $50. That is for like 4 - 6 hours of fun.


    Minimum Wage in my state is $10.00 an hour. So you would only need to work 1 1/2 hours a month to afford a game subscription on minimum wage. If that is seriously out of reach then honestly gaming should be your last worry in life.

    I challenge anyone to tell me anything that costs less than $15 and can potentially provide as much entertainment as an MMO.


  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    subs is not bad if, its not count on month, but hours.

    example

    1 month subs = 30 days = 720 hours

    means it will count on hours i play. the count start as i start playing my toon, not on login screen

    because, some month im extremely busy and cant play the game.

    example: on january im very busy, i probably can only play 5 days, 1-2 hours a day only. but in february im free and can play all days

    720 hours? There is this thing called sleep you need... unless you are a robot and this topic is a mute point. Just wire in and sweet talk the server into bypassing the login ;)

    Blizzard charges 150NT or 4.78USD for 30 hours of gametime:

    https://tw.battle.net/shop/zh/product/world-of-warcraft-game-time-asia

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