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New Animations System Debuts With New Video - Camelot Unchained - MMORPG.com

ShelassaShelassa MMORPG.COM Staff UncommonPosts: 616
edited January 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageNew Animations System Debuts With New Video - Camelot Unchained - MMORPG.com

Camelot Unchained News - City State Entertainment has posted a brand new Camelot Unchained video that shines the spotlight on the new animation system that will be utilized going forward. While in its initial phase of deployment, the developers will have an ability to create even more realistic character movement and high-quality animations from this point on.

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Comments

  • mithossmithoss Member UncommonPosts: 227
    why dont they mocap? nearly 2,5 hours of work and it looks mediocre
  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872
    Unless somebody is an animations nerd himself, i doubt anyone would watch a video showing a dark gray screen with a light grey sword weilding figure for 2hrs 40min.

    image
  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    3DS Max ehh? I'm more of a Maya guy myself.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    Volgore said:
    Unless somebody is an animations nerd himself, i doubt anyone would watch a video showing a dark gray screen with a light grey sword weilding figure for 2hrs 40min.
    Watch it buddy  >:)

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited January 2017
    mithoss said:
    why dont they mocap?
    One would need to catch an hamadryad first and convince her to cooperate.  =p



    There are many non-human races in CU so I guess it's more complicated to go with mocap.




  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,586
    The old animations and movement were one of the things I was most concerned about. I haven't seen the new ones yet but this is promising news as far as I am concerned.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

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  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,196
    Just finish the game then show it off.

    /SMH
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited January 2017


    The old animations and movement were one of the things I was most concerned about. I haven't seen the new ones yet but this is promising news as far as I am concerned.



    lol yea I'm happy they're improving the animations too. Here's a vid showing a character running around and attacking at the same time (WIP): youtube.com/watch?v=TTbki4PF7JQ&t=3h0m46s
    Some running animations: youtube.com/watch?v=hJsq8yzFWDc&t=1h27m10s

    JamesGoblin
  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685

    mithoss said:

    why dont they mocap? nearly 2,5 hours of work and it looks mediocre



    That's what i was thinking too. Mocap does have it's drawbacks though. Trying to sync animations with other NPCs and other players for instance.

    As a side note, i hope people understand how difficult it is to create animations, before they start criticizing them. These are just a couple animations shown too. Imagine a whole set for one race, now multiply that for 10+ races and genders.
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  • Righteous_RockRighteous_Rock Member RarePosts: 1,234
    thanks to the guy that sneezed all over the place the game will be delayed another week.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Would not load for me.  Must be popular.

  • TobimasterTobimaster Member UncommonPosts: 2


    from the first few minutes :



    where is the compression of the knees and the power through the legs. The uppoer body doesnt swing a sword solely , you need to generate power through your lower body and exert that force through the arms.


    you should get some nerf swords and spend the day having duels and video tape it. think it would get a more natural looking motion them brick legs only top movs when swinging.



    If you would check it out more you would find out, that the new animationsystem is using animations for each bodypart, thats the reason why the attack animation don't need a fixed movement animation.
  • TybostTybost Member UncommonPosts: 629
    Great vi.... zzzzZzz
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338

    DMKano said:

    AAA animation polish = $$$$$



    it can be done.
    just need to get a good animator.
    They need to do motion-capture. The equipment and the skills per se are not expensive anymore. But an experienced crew costs a lot. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited January 2017






    DMKano said:


    AAA animation polish = $$$$$






    it can be done.

    just need to get a good animator.


    They need to do motion-capture. The equipment and the skills per se are not expensive anymore. But an experienced crew costs a lot. 



    Here's a reply I find excellent from a user on Quora explaining why the producers of fantasy movies (but the reasoning applies to high fantasy games like CU too) may choose the keyframe animation rather than the motion capture:

    Q. "[...] why do big animation companies take pride in creating animation the hard way (i.e. frame by frame) rather than use of Motion Capture?"

    A. "I'm pretty sure Pixar would use motion capture all the time, if only we could convince the toys, action figures, bugs, monsters, robots, bears, birds, fish, rats, superheros, cars, emotions, and (soon) dinosaurs to wear the mocap suits.

    That's kind of glib, but there is a serious set of technical issues underlying it. Pixar's animated films have a high percentage of non-human characters. Even the nominally humanoid characters like Woody have characteristics which humans do not have, like floppy, flexible arms and a ridiculous run cycle. The performance of humans are limited by human anatomy and by physics. The weight and length of each body segment, the inertia and scale, the limits to compressibility and stretchiness all present real limits to the motion of physical characters. If you try to transfer the motion of a six foot tall actor to a 6" action figure, you'll probably not get something you like. It will look odd. Out of scale.

    Can you imagine a human actor giving this performance?

    Go back and watch Woody's animation in Toy Story. Now, try to imagine performing his part. He's got a goofy run cycle. His arms and legs flop around. His arms and legs have an incredible range of motion. He movies insanely quickly, because he's small and his parts lack inertia. He is often comically off balance. When humans enter the room, he turns into a rag doll. All of these would be really, really hard for a human actor to perform. If you did try to mocap them, you'd almost certainly want to rework them for greater impact.

    [...]

    The fact is that animation is an incredibly difficult art form, and there are few short cuts, and even if their were, animators aren't really interested in them. I suspect they chose this particular art form particularly because it is difficult: it requires not only understanding of art, but of physics and motion. Each frame of an animated film is crafted for maximum impact. It tries to deliver a perfectly sculpted experience. Where blinks occur. How the profile of the character creates negative space. Squash and stretch. Animators make films this way because it gives them the maximum possible control over the results, informed but not constrained by physics.

    There are no short cuts."

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-big-animation-companies-like-Dreamworks-Pixar-go-in-for-making-frame-by-frame-animation-rather-than-using-Motion-Capture-for-animating#
    JamesGoblin
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338




    They need to do motion-capture. The equipment and the skills per se are not expensive anymore. But an experienced crew costs a lot. 



    Here's a reply I find excellent from a user on Quora explaining why the producers of high fantasy movies (but the reasoning applies to fantasy games like CU too) may choose the keyframe animation rather than the motion capture:

    Q. "[...] why do big animation companies take pride in creating animation the hard way (i.e. frame by frame) rather than use of Motion Capture?"

    A. "I'm pretty sure Pixar would use motion capture all the time, if only we could convince the toys, action figures, bugs, monsters, robots, bears, birds, fish, rats, superheros, cars, emotions, and (soon) dinosaurs to wear the mocap suits.

    That's kind of glib, but there is a serious set of technical issues underlying it. Pixar's animated films have a high percentage of non-human characters. Even the nominally humanoid characters like Woody have characteristics which humans do not have, like floppy, flexible arms and a ridiculous run cycle. The performance of humans are limited by human anatomy and by physics. The weight and length of each body segment, the inertia and scale, the limits to compressibility and stretchiness all present real limits to the motion of physical characters. If you try to transfer the motion of a six foot tall actor to a 6" action figure, you'll probably not get something you like. It will look odd. Out of scale.

    Can you imagine a human actor giving this performance?

    Go back and watch Woody's animation in Toy Story. Now, try to imagine performing his part. He's got a goofy run cycle. His arms and legs flop around. His arms and legs have an incredible range of motion. He movies insanely quickly, because he's small and his parts lack inertia. He is often comically off balance. When humans enter the room, he turns into a rag doll. All of these would be really, really hard for a human actor to perform. If you did try to mocap them, you'd almost certainly want to rework them for greater impact.

    [...]

    Imagine trying to get someone to act Remy's part. Remy can scamper on all fours. His head is way off scale compared to human proportions. Again, he moves like something which is four inches tall, not six feet tall. He's got a tail which needs to balance when he runs. His arms are short, and can't really reach the top of his head like a human can. His torso is very long and flexible.

    The fact is that animation is an incredibly difficult art form, and there are few short cuts, and even if their were, animators aren't really interested in them. I suspect they chose this particular art form particularly because it is difficult: it requires not only understanding of art, but of physics and motion. Each frame of an animated film is crafted for maximum impact. It tries to deliver a perfectly sculpted experience. Where blinks occur. How the profile of the character creates negative space. Squash and stretch. Animators make films this way because it gives them the maximum possible control over the results, informed but not constrained by physics.

    There are no short cuts."

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-big-animation-companies-like-Dreamworks-Pixar-go-in-for-making-frame-by-frame-animation-rather-than-using-Motion-Capture-for-animating#
    Good find. But as it is stated in the response, it is mainly about non-humans. Key frame animation is used if you can't motion-capture. Because as it was said, we can't put on the gear on a dinosaur for example. But when you are animating realistic movements of a human, nothing beats motion-capture. But there will be modification post motion-capture as well. Also muscle (which no game has it--yet) animations and cloth, hair, etc. are being done frame by frame too. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    edited January 2017
    Good find. But as it is stated in the response, it is mainly about non-humans. Key frame animation is used if you can't motion-capture. Because as it was said, we can't put on the gear on a dinosaur for example. But when you are animating realistic movements of a human, nothing beats motion-capture. But there will be modification post motion-capture as well. Also muscle (which no game has it--yet) animations and cloth, hair, etc. are being done frame by frame too. 
    Nyctelios said:
    Bad example.... This is just a humanoid bones. You can mocap it easily. 

    Even the motion of their humanoid races is imbued with fantasy. I'm pretty sure the studio doesn't want a copy of a real-life human running motion in CU.

    youtube.com/watch?v=prDq2lhtzQg
    youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_SizNRUPg

    vs.

    youtube.com/watch?v=QRRZIbPMw3I
    youtube.com/watch?v=lAwp9NK3E0s
    youtube.com/watch?v=Oj-LxnnlPB0

    Motion capture is a great solution for many projects, but frame by frame is more suited to CU imo.


    JamesGoblin
  • WolfClawsWolfClaws Member UncommonPosts: 638
    The hard work is appreciated.

    But for those for MOCAP... remember, Chris Roberts has one in his basement :D
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  • InebriatedSkunkInebriatedSkunk Member UncommonPosts: 66
    edited January 2017

    Nyctelios said:





    Good find. But as it is stated in the response, it is mainly about non-humans. Key frame animation is used if you can't motion-capture. Because as it was said, we can't put on the gear on a dinosaur for example. But when you are animating realistic movements of a human, nothing beats motion-capture. But there will be modification post motion-capture as well. Also muscle (which no game has it--yet) animations and cloth, hair, etc. are being done frame by frame too. 



    Nyctelios said:

    Bad example.... This is just a humanoid bones. You can mocap it easily. 



    Even the motion of their humanoid races is imbued with fantasy. I'm pretty sure the studio doesn't want a copy of a real-life human running motion in CU.

    youtube.com/watch?v=prDq2lhtzQg
    youtube.com/watch?v=Zb_SizNRUPg

    vs.

    youtube.com/watch?v=QRRZIbPMw3I
    youtube.com/watch?v=lAwp9NK3E0s
    youtube.com/watch?v=Oj-LxnnlPB0

    Motion capture is a great solution for many projects, but frame by frame is more suited to CU imo.




    Why not? If the skeleton and shape is just straight human why avoid realism? A succubus is a winged woman wearing high heels. What's special about it?

    A minotaur walks the same way a man would walk if he would be using the point of his feet only to touch the floor, emulating the hoof.

    Sorry to burst your bubble but there is nothing special about humanoids creatures that can't be emulated (and used to mocap) wearing some sort of special shoe and walking alike.



    Agreed. Look how CIG is doing the mocap for the Vanduul for Star Citizen, which shows Andy Serkis and Patrice Miambana in mocap walking with a slight hunch and shoulders raised, like a child imitating a large monster. When you want to do non-human yet humanoid creatures, mocap is the best, as the human body can walk and move in a variety of ways.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,141

    mithoss said:

    why dont they mocap? nearly 2,5 hours of work and it looks mediocre



    Because its expensive as fk for starters along with the animation syncing to skills someone else mentioned. Animations are the least important thing thing in a game with massive battles. This isn't some couch potato street fighter console game where animations are the most important part of the game.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 479
    Last winter:


    Last week (WIP):
    JamesGoblin
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