Generally speaking, a game which appeals to "the masses" have poorer communities than those targeted to more of a niche. (IMO)
So yes, WOW may have a sub, yet be home to a great number of asshats.
When games move to F2P it increases access to the masses, hence the perception it has degarded the player community.
It isn't the payment model itself, rather the fact the masses are generally unpleasant and drag any game down.
Look at the reputations of many games popular with the masses and you'll probably see many comments of a bad community, i.e. LOL.
As others gave said being able to endlessly create throw away accounts also exacerbates the problem as it's harder to hold people accountable for undesireable behavior, which also adds to the perception.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am tired of the argument that a game goes to crap when it offers a f2p model BECAUSE OF THE F2P'ERS themselves. As if people blessed with income to throw away are so much more nicer than those of us who are on a low entertainment budget. I have met as many trollish subscribers as f2p'ers. It is very insulting to suggest that your "game went downhill when we let those free to players in."
It's not strictly about Income, it's more about Age. F2P games attract hordes of wild male teenagers, that's a fact. Of course not all teenagers are aggressive, foul mouthed and highly competitive, but the majority are, that's what being a teenager is about. But there is no point in blaming teenagers, at that age none of us was a Saint, the problem is the F2P concept that attracts this specific demographic, and quite frankly there is nothing that can be done. If you are going to play a F2P game that's what you are going to get.
A monthly subscription in general , keep most teenagers away. WoW was a fluke, it was so good that teenagers were willing (and still are) to use their pocket money to pay for the Sub, but in general, teenagers like their freebies.
I am tired of the argument that a game goes to crap when it offers a f2p model BECAUSE OF THE F2P'ERS themselves. As if people blessed with income to throw away are so much more nicer than those of us who are on a low entertainment budget. I have met as many trollish subscribers as f2p'ers. It is very insulting to suggest that your "game went downhill when we let those free to players in."
It's not strictly about Income, it's more about Age. F2P games attract hordes of wild male teenagers, that's a fact. Of course not all teenagers are aggressive, foul mouthed and highly competitive, but the majority are, that's what being a teenager is about. But there is no point in blaming teenagers, at that age none of us was a Saint, the problem is the F2P concept that attracts this specific demographic, and quite frankly there is nothing that can be done. If you are going to play a F2P game that's what you are going to get.
A monthly subscription in general , keep most teenagers away. WoW was a fluke, it was so good that teenagers were willing (and still are) to use their pocket money to pay for the Sub, but in general, teenagers like their freebies.
Actually only partly true.
I play on Moon Guard, and outside the Goldshire trolls...the ACTUAL community that plays on Moon Guard past level 1 (which are the goldshire tools) are all adults. And the community outside Elwynn is actually as good as most other MMO communities are, plus they are a lot more open minded and less...elitist. Probably because a lot of Erpers/BDSM players go there, so it makes a lot less of an elitist style community full of snobs worried about rigid rules. So its actually better than most MMOs I play on that particular server.
There is also Wyrmstooth Accord (another RP PVE server, the 2nd biggest one), but I find they are a lot more...snobby and elitist than Moon Guard players are. But, they take RP a lot more seriously and its more a serious atmosphere than Moon Guard. But still not that bad a community, and you'll find RP is a lot more serious than Moon Guard. But, at same time, a lot less walking up to random people to RP, since everyone as their own niche groups. Its one reason I decided to go to Moon Guard.
However, every single PvP server (including Emerald Dream) is full of asshats, douchebags and trolls. PvP servers are where you find the worst players you'll find in WoW. That is true for pretty much any PvP game though.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Yes, religious people are not all nice and atheists aren't all jerks... next.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
IMHO, after just a short period of time for acclimatization, you deserve your life wherever you are. After that every decision and choice and comment/remark you make is on you. I still don't see how either side can justify a payment model for their lives and decisions they make lol.
MMORPGs are the one kind of luxury entertainment in the world, that people pay way to little for.
On top of that this luxury entertainment is also the only entertainment that practically have an inside political scene, made up by customers that have an extreme amount of power to shape the future of these games. Not only that, but they actually believe, that purely by being customers, they have the right to decide what goes on and should go on.
Gone are the days, where creators had the freedom to decide over their own products, without customers barking up the fence demanding things being made to cater to their individual needs.
Developers these days are degraded to nothing but slaves, regardless of F2P or P2P arguments. They have to fight to survive, while people, the consumers, sit comfortably and cant decide if they should buy 5 games or 6 games this month. Or should they sub to 2 or 3 MMORPGs this month, so hard to decide.
How long do you guys think you can keep pushing the prices down, before there eventually will not be produced any quality games at all? The production of these games is simply not viable, if you will not pay, its that simple.
Developers are slaves? I laughed my ass off.... They earn more than 99% of the worlds population if they succeed. If they do not they become IT personel in another company. The humans who mindlessly buy 10-20 games a year are the slaves in this environment. Had no one bought those games and protested against such high prices there would have not been a single game sold for over 20 dollars.
MMORPGs are the one kind of luxury entertainment in the world, that people pay way to little for.
On top of that this luxury entertainment is also the only entertainment that practically have an inside political scene, made up by customers that have an extreme amount of power to shape the future of these games. Not only that, but they actually believe, that purely by being customers, they have the right to decide what goes on and should go on.
Gone are the days, where creators had the freedom to decide over their own products, without customers barking up the fence demanding things being made to cater to their individual needs.
Developers these days are degraded to nothing but slaves, regardless of F2P or P2P arguments. They have to fight to survive, while people, the consumers, sit comfortably and cant decide if they should buy 5 games or 6 games this month. Or should they sub to 2 or 3 MMORPGs this month, so hard to decide.
How long do you guys think you can keep pushing the prices down, before there eventually will not be produced any quality games at all? The production of these games is simply not viable, if you will not pay, its that simple.
Developers are slaves? I laughed my ass off.... They earn more than 99% of the worlds population if they succeed. If they do not they become IT personel in another company. The humans who mindlessly buy 10-20 games a year are the slaves in this environment. Had no one bought those games and protested against such high prices there would have not been a single game sold for over 20 dollars.
If you are correct, then I guess the only two things you need to do is stop buying games and stop complaining about their prices.
I am tired of the argument that a game goes to crap when it offers a f2p model BECAUSE OF THE F2P'ERS themselves. As if people blessed with income to throw away are so much more nicer than those of us who are on a low entertainment budget. I have met as many trollish subscribers as f2p'ers. It is very insulting to suggest that your "game went downhill when we let those free to players in."
Only someone out of touch says this anymore. And its just more likely just being repeated because its what they heard others say. Plenty of morons in sub.only games.
I think people are generally more suggesting that the other changes that come along with adopting a f2p system is what brings the game down, not so much the f2p players themselves.
The game quality doesn't go down because f2p players are jerks or something. It goes downhill because Devs are forced to start developing new cash shop schemes instead of content.
Comments
So yes, WOW may have a sub, yet be home to a great number of asshats.
When games move to F2P it increases access to the masses, hence the perception it has degarded the player community.
It isn't the payment model itself, rather the fact the masses are generally unpleasant and drag any game down.
Look at the reputations of many games popular with the masses and you'll probably see many comments of a bad community, i.e. LOL.
As others gave said being able to endlessly create throw away accounts also exacerbates the problem as it's harder to hold people accountable for undesireable behavior, which also adds to the perception.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
(Saying this as a single payment b2p with cosmetic store advocate.)
F2P games attract hordes of wild male teenagers, that's a fact.
Of course not all teenagers are aggressive, foul mouthed and highly competitive, but the majority are, that's what being a teenager is about.
But there is no point in blaming teenagers, at that age none of us was a Saint, the problem is the F2P concept that attracts this specific demographic, and quite frankly there is nothing that can be done.
If you are going to play a F2P game that's what you are going to get.
A monthly subscription in general , keep most teenagers away.
WoW was a fluke, it was so good that teenagers were willing (and still are) to use their pocket money to pay for the Sub, but in general, teenagers like their freebies.
I play on Moon Guard, and outside the Goldshire trolls...the ACTUAL community that plays on Moon Guard past level 1 (which are the goldshire tools) are all adults. And the community outside Elwynn is actually as good as most other MMO communities are, plus they are a lot more open minded and less...elitist. Probably because a lot of Erpers/BDSM players go there, so it makes a lot less of an elitist style community full of snobs worried about rigid rules. So its actually better than most MMOs I play on that particular server.
There is also Wyrmstooth Accord (another RP PVE server, the 2nd biggest one), but I find they are a lot more...snobby and elitist than Moon Guard players are. But, they take RP a lot more seriously and its more a serious atmosphere than Moon Guard. But still not that bad a community, and you'll find RP is a lot more serious than Moon Guard. But, at same time, a lot less walking up to random people to RP, since everyone as their own niche groups. Its one reason I decided to go to Moon Guard.
However, every single PvP server (including Emerald Dream) is full of asshats, douchebags and trolls. PvP servers are where you find the worst players you'll find in WoW. That is true for pretty much any PvP game though.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
They earn more than 99% of the worlds population if they succeed. If they do not they become IT personel in another company.
The humans who mindlessly buy 10-20 games a year are the slaves in this environment. Had no one bought those games and protested against such high prices there would have not been a single game sold for over 20 dollars.
If you are correct, then I guess the only two things you need to do is stop buying games and stop complaining about their prices.
Best wishes!