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Do not give this project any more money.
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Nope ... Tufao/Manzes/jcrg99 posts would be twice or trice as long ... and in a different, extremely verbose writing style. We had half a dozen clones of jcrg99 here ... all of them easily recognizable and quickly getting themselves permabanned.
Have fun
No you don't have to apologise but most people see it as the polite thing to do.
See, even now you are trying to turn this back on me by saying I was claiming you were wrong. WTH?
In case you need reminding that's how this started. It had nothing to do with me saying you were wrong. You initiated this, the least you could do is hold your hands up and admit it.
Anyhow, please please please stop trying to bait me. I realise how futile it is having these conversations with you, so I would like nothing more than to not be pestered by them.
Thank you in advance.
I still miss Brenics myself. I guess he never made an Alt here.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
End result is the same, in my mind: don't give them money until I see a complete game.
Because if one would assume they are not completely incompetent and/or not lying I truly do not see, considering the state of the project today, how they could claim SQ42 or 3.0 for release before the end of 2016.
Bringing them back for new backers?? What? The entire point of limited edition is that, if you don't get them during the limited windows you don't get them.
However, I do feel baited... into conversation? lol
Most certainly the interest of the higher ups want to get things done as quickly as possible, so what way I see it the developers/teams may be facing deadlines they can't keep up with all the time. Those deadlines shouldn't be given to the public though...
First, yes, I am a backer. I've got a whole $20 tied up in this game.
A. Yes, I am using anecdotal evidence to support facts. Are you really claiming that up until now there has been no gameplay development? That's fucking hilarious because every aspect that you are PLAYING in the game right now on the PTR is GAMEPLAY!
B. First of all, I didn't feel like I needed to address the other two points since I addressed and shattered your first point. However, if I must..... Do you think it's possible that they had planned on releasing 3.0 as-is without missing features? It would probably explain how something that was planned for release at the end of 2016 might get pushed out a few months. No? This happens quite often in software development, and we see it quite often in games. We see features removed, only to be put back in later once they've been properly implemented. If you'd like a list of games that did this in the past I can do that for you. ED is the most recent one, who is wavering on whether or not to release multi-crew ships.
C. I don't have a problem with people posting their opinion, go for it! So what's your problem with me stating my opinion that you're completely lacking objectivity? I mean I know you're a huge ED fan, and I never see you call out the warts in that game, but you seem to be on the list of doomsayers any time that an SC post comes up? I'm not saying that I'm objective, but at least I've made plenty of posts AGAINST SC, even though I'm generally a fan. So I like to think I'm TRYING to remain objective. Fuck, I can't even disagree with the post title, but for much different reasons. My main reasoning would be precedent. I think that if SC is actually successful, it sets a bad precedent for crowdfunding because it will encourage more companies to take their crowdfunding efforts offline, or do them privately entirely, looking to build massive, extended funding after their initial goals were met. Did you notice, though, how I said "I think" instead of using words like "definitely" or "facts"? Yeah, that lets people know it's my opinion and that I'm not trying to pawn myself off as being an expert on crowdfunding.
D. Yup! I actually said that I use the term pretty loosely and I think it's a hilarious characterization. Same goes for the term white knight and fanboi, which pains be to spell. It's fucking hilarious because the reality is that this sort of shit exists for every game. Even your beloved ED. Fuck I even came across this reddit today. If ED wasn't the topic, you could easily mistaken it for an SC thread, or a less popular SC thread. Basically what it boils down to is that when people talk shit about something that you like, regardless of how relevant it might be, people will take offence to it.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/445787/this-is-what-people-really-believe-theyre-getting-when-they-invest-in-star-citizen/p1
...but all I got was "HOW DARE YOU SLIGHT A FAN FOR MAKING A VIDEO!!!!11!1one!1!!"
"What, you thought SQ42 was going to be released in Feb '16? You fool! No one thought that!"
Why, yes, yes some people did. Some people thought SM would be available in late spring '15. They were led to believe these things (months not years) intentionally to garner profit for the company.
Just like how the company made money from the statement something to the effect of "3.0 by the end of the year".
But all you ever hear from the revisionists is "You didn't listen properly!"
I wasn't slighting the guy for the video, I told him it was good. The issue was that, while he was telling the absolute truth the way it was being pumped into his head, all he was doing was parroting false advertisement. Kinda like what Erillion does, his statements are truthful, from the spun, revisionist gaslighting that's crapped out by CIG, which is the false ad.
Is that Erillion's "fault"? no, I guess not, and it's not Shodanas' fault, or CrazKanuk's fault, or Max's fault. But in the end, from the source, it's not truthful and it's not good.
Stop giving CIG money. Tell them to finish with what they have.
So yes, they absolutely should be shared with backers, which essentially means with the public. The point is, good leaders don't continuously give their teams unrealistic deadlines to meet. Your response to my statement was, quite frankly, exactly what I would expect from someone attempting to justify a sunk cost fallacy.
It needs to stop.
With that, the crunch hours, unpaid hours other things show themselves as the pressure the team is having to deliver, because time is money. So it's not sunk cost fallacy (for 45$? lol), it's just something very real within development.
The project would probably have folded long ago without this continuous stream of publicity keeping the money rolling in...
Call it lying or whatever, all they have to do is say "it's been delayed". In the software/games world, that's all that's needed more or less to get away with it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't care about SC either way, but I err on the side of skepticism because consumers get screwed enough by the status quo- last thing I want is to see folks getting screwed by the revolution, so to speak.
And you seem to think a sunk cost fallacy can only apply to monetary values, and you imply it should only pertain to high monetary values at that. No such restrictions apply to the fallacy.
And with how he is fear mongering people with some those wild claims of refunds, claims of revolts and so forth, will only hint back positively for the game once incoming major updates get released.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
People need to be aware CIG lies before they give CIG money. They do it routinely, they've been doing it for years. Every uninitiated person who comes across the project deserves to be armed with this information.
Do you or do you not agree?
I think we've had a similar conversation before. This time around you're more on the fence. Won't you cross over and help?
A. But that is not a fact. Just because something happened in your situation does not mean the same is happening in a totally separate situation.
No I am not claiming there has been no gameplay devleopment, does this even need to be stated?
I am showing a video of Brian Chambers talking about stuff for 3.0 and he mentions it within that context which is why it's relevant.
B. LOL you didn't "shatter" my point. Haha.
No I don't think they were going to skip something that was the main bullet point for 3.0, nor were they going to skip the Room System which is deemed as being essential for 3.0. It would be far more likely that they have to delay the whole thing which is what we are seeing now.
C. You clearly do otherwise you wouldn't be running this diatribe and making repeated snipes about objectivity. Virtually everytime you address any of my posts you take this approach and yet now you're claiming all opinions are fair?
D. See the thing is I have no problem being called critical, overly critical even because admittedly I am very critical. But doomsaying is just a stupid thing to say because that would only be hurting myself due to me having money involved in this project.
Anyway, this is getting marvelously off topic.
You still haven't answered to why this is ok for some, but it's criminal when SC does it? I mean, FUCK! ED got people to buy into a crowdfunding campaign, shipped them an incomplete game and then made them spend more money to get the additional features, lol. Crickets...... ED even sells you an expansion (commanders, in beta) and then tells you that one of the major features might not even be released with it, lol. Again, if you're REALLY wanting me to, I'll compile a list of games that have issued significant delays. It's not a small list. However, if THAT would satisfy you, I can do it. Just say the word.
I guess what I'm asking for is what you're looking for exactly. With the latest Gamestar article, you get some insight into delays. Fuck, that even admits there were delays!! Revisionist or not, CIG is actually saying things were delayed. I can definitely understand your point, but I've given you context and reasoning as to why this might happen, if you were somehow unfamiliar with the industry, and you have just ignored my posts up until now. So what are you wanting exactly?
If you're now wondering what I want, feel free to enlighten me as to how this is not a common industry issue. I know it is because I can google and find 10, 50, 100 quotes from devs talking about delays, how they're common and why they're common.
PS they do have forums, so I don't know why you wouldn't ask your questions there and wait for a response. I think one of the biggest problems with this project is that people simply don't "ask the question", presently company included. Not that it would matter.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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