History has shown us many cases where goals were reached despite the populous thinking it was impossible.
Please name examples..
Discovery of America, landing on the moon, smartphones, the fall of the Soviet Union, election of a black President, election of a buffoon for President etc.
History is full of examples of people accomplishing what most feel is impossible.
I remember before I was conceived all odds were against me. One in a million they said. But here I am now.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
History has shown us many cases where goals were reached despite the populous thinking it was impossible.
Please name examples..
You're typing on one right now (a personal computer)! On an operating system where "640k ought to be enough for anyone" with regards to memory.
Lest we forget that it was just like 5 years ago where there were articles claiming that only 30% of crowdfunded games were being delivered. Now, today, that number is over 70, closer to 80%. Just as with anything new, there will be bugs, process issues, and a general education of the public and industry before any significant accomplishments are made.
From a games perspective, Albion Online ships this summer and has a date set, and entered final beta testing just this month. For all intents and purposes, it has a feature set not dissimilar from CoE, include player-driven economy, real estate, deep crafting, a caravan system, different building types. Basically, it's a pretty deep game. Now CoE tacks on additional complexity like with a nobility system, but I'd say it's not as unattainable as it once appeared to be. We're starting to see a trickle of successful crowdfunded MMOs now which should be good for the industry.
Oh! Just because I stated the above doesn't mean I believe THEY can do it. I love crowdfunding, but haven't put any money into this.....yet.
They would need to gather more money than Chris Roberts to get all those features going.. and even Roberts has been missing deadlines for years now.
There is just so much smokes and mirrors involved in this project to a degree that you can easily call it blatant lies.
Crowdfunding itself may be a good thing for indie companies working on small single player games. For MMOs it's just an ongoing nightmare that needs to stop. What was the name of that MMO again that was just canned? The owner had been telling folks for a year that he will give them complete refunds and then he just vanished. Kickstarter just replied to that by pointing out their rules that they will not hold people responsible even if they don't deliver and run off with the money. Kickstarter itself is responsible for a lot of fraud going on and they will not stop because there's just too much profit in it for them.
Well we don't know how much money they have, and we don't know how much Albion had. For that matter, Shards online does a lot of the same features, but they "raised" $50,000 on Kickstarter, a number which certainly wasn't indicative of what was needed to complete it.
There has been a total of 1 lawsuit due to crowdfunding and it was for a TCG, not a video game. I think you're thinking of Jason Appleton (I think is his name?). It definitely doesn't set a good precedent, but it's not indicative of crowdfunded projects. Actually, I've never had a game I backed fail to deliver something. I can say that confidently now The Repop servers are going back online. Fuck, I think that even Pathfinder Online is being resurrected, isn't it?
On the whole, though, I'd agree that MMOs don't TEND to lend themselves to crowdfunding, since their timelines tend to be longer and they are much riskier.
@CrazKanuk No not Greedmonger.. Appleton was a league of its own. He ran off with the money and then posted pictures of his new house on facebook.
No the game I am thinking about was named something with M.. Meridian.. Meriva.. Mavi.. I can't remember. Either way it was an action adventure like the classic Zelda games and the feature list was rather low so the game could actually have been made.
Either way a critic kept covering the story: The second last entry was that the dev promised a full refund a year ago. That thread had been updated some weeks ago stating that the dev was now just silencing people asking when they would finally get the refund. The critic then asked Kickstarter what they would do about this and they stated that according to their rules they will do.. nothing.
there not making a single playuer game... just a demo with feautures that can be tested without net code. the animations of opening doors fighting etc will still be the same in the mmo. the landscape too, + this game is made on unreal so the netcode is already there, this is only a demon not a fullfledged single player game there making. people here can't even read good. haters always gona hate. (people here don't know how modular programing works)
no this is a real life programmer explaining to you that the way they work isn't that suprising and that people here just don't know how modular programming works. i have done it in my projects as well first make evrything wihtout the back end service up. i use a mock up of a local back end to simulate it. if the components work then there is literly only secodns of work to change it to the real back end. thats the same way how they build it. hence why the mud and online game to test the back end before they switch it to the 3d client. its a viable cost friendly fast development
Many of us have done modular programming, it works in some settings. An MMO is not one of those settings, far too complex. This development studio has to be one of the more ignorant ones in business today. Too many promised features will doom them unless they stick to a few basic ones, they do not and probably never will have enough staff to implement most of them.
i don't agree wiht you that an mmo is too complex to use modular programming. in comparison to a gmae like sc they don't have that many feautures promised.
Thanks for the afternoon laugh. They have so many features listed for this game it makes SC look like a high school project.
I'm really happy I didn't put any money into CoE. I had put a lot of money into Revival but that game was suddenly cancelled. Illfonic returned all of the money used on Revival but for me that was the first and last experience of crowdfunding fantasy MMOs. There's just too much competition in the fantasy genre and all the emerging indie projects are sinking each other. The funding gets so diluted that none of them can deliver a really high-quality product. Besides, Baldur's Gate Online remains awesome enough and Elder Scrolls Online and Path of Exile provide some fun too. I hope CoE and Ashes of Creation succeed but I am no longer too hyped about these innovative indie promises. I'll only keep an eye on Star Citizen for now because it has raised so much money and might actually deliver something nice.
The solo start doesn't bother me. Often times MMO launches are ruined by gold farmer spam so bad you can't read chat from legitimate players wanting to team up. Then add in the griefers, or the people who go AFK on top of quest NPCS or public service areas. Ultimately I usually end up turning off most chats, and character models just to make it through the first month with sanity.
there not making a single playuer game... just a demo with feautures that can be tested without net code. the animations of opening doors fighting etc will still be the same in the mmo. the landscape too, + this game is made on unreal so the netcode is already there, this is only a demon not a fullfledged single player game there making. people here can't even read good. haters always gona hate. (people here don't know how modular programing works)
no this is a real life programmer explaining to you that the way they work isn't that suprising and that people here just don't know how modular programming works. i have done it in my projects as well first make evrything wihtout the back end service up. i use a mock up of a local back end to simulate it. if the components work then there is literly only secodns of work to change it to the real back end. thats the same way how they build it. hence why the mud and online game to test the back end before they switch it to the 3d client. its a viable cost friendly fast development
Many of us have done modular programming, it works in some settings. An MMO is not one of those settings, far too complex. This development studio has to be one of the more ignorant ones in business today. Too many promised features will doom them unless they stick to a few basic ones, they do not and probably never will have enough staff to implement most of them.
i don't agree wiht you that an mmo is too complex to use modular programming. in comparison to a gmae like sc they don't have that many feautures promised.
Thanks for the afternoon laugh. They have so many features listed for this game it makes SC look like a high school project.
Star Citizen is a much larger scale project than Chronicles of Elyria. There are multiple games being created under the Star Citizen title. In terms of scope, what's being done with Star Citizen is several orders of magnitude greater than Chronicles of Elyria.
there not making a single playuer game... just a demo with feautures that can be tested without net code. the animations of opening doors fighting etc will still be the same in the mmo. the landscape too, + this game is made on unreal so the netcode is already there, this is only a demon not a fullfledged single player game there making. people here can't even read good. haters always gona hate. (people here don't know how modular programing works)
I would like to clarify this about netcode in Unreal a little.
First that netcode is designed around a multiplayer game in which MOST if not all the code is actually ran on the client so it is severely limited on what can not be hacked. What that means is MOST if not all of the game can literally be hacked from the client side since the game code is rather public access.
Secondly, there is no database interface in unreal engine or for that matter no distribution, load balancing of any sort or any kind of cluster management so the most players on per server would be, given the current design with all this server side execution and a six core processor pumping full throttle, ~40 with a world size just under 4 KM square trying to handle a simulation of maybe couple hundred mobs. Given that there is no replication between servers than zoning is the only option. Not exactly a OW engine without the cluster management but again they probably know more than I do since I only been programming 39 years and have 25 years in engineering live real time systems.
C'mon Garrett. Why give them a free pass? Someone needs to start asking Jeromy the tough questions. Like, "how do you plan to address the community concerns about your title being a Pay for Advantage game?" And then don't let him just say that being a king isn't an advantage because you have do all this strategy stuff and not the fight/kill/loot adventuring. Why would anyone pay $10K to play a king in a game if their isn't any advantage to it? He has to give his investors something and has to give those who invest more, more of that something. So what exactly are they getting...power, fame, advantage...what?
We need MMORPG.com to be the voice of consumers. We know you guys/gals play these games. Is no one on the staff in the least concerned about the increasing prevalence of Pay for Advantage titles?
You realize quickly in media, if you don't already know it going in, that if you ask hardball questions, then you get the Heisman Trophy treatment from developers. Want to get interviews and content that will pull views on your web site? Ask softball questions, or questions that can be answered positively.
"Jeromy, will you be able to release this game with all planned features by December 31's 2017, yes or no?" Is not gonna happen. Instead you'll get "So how is development proceeding? Are things going well?" to which they can always respond yes. No firm numbers, no dates, no promises, not really a lie... depending on your point of view and sounds positive for potential investors doing their research.
If you toss hard questions at too many developers then you end up on an uninvited list, and find your way blocked to all the good after parties. Then you become that bitter reporter who prints any rumor you come across since no one will talk to you personally.
Well as very true as it is i believe in honesty and not sellouts.
If you want people to believe in your integrity then you need to be straightforward.
If all you are doing is running a business,then you are misleading your viewers to the point you are saying,i have no respect for my viewers,screw them,they are just meat i use to make money from.
So imo do NOT even go there,if you cannot be straight forward and honest,then just stick to posting ad banners and keep those softball interviews to yourself because they are meaningless to viewers.
There is something also misleading about the assumptions.If you post negative material,that developer is likely going to want a reprieve,to give their own story and that is how it works.Look no further than the mud that washed up on Star Citizen and how quickly Chris Robert's came out of the wood work.
There a LOT of big name reporters that dig deep and dirty and yes you will run into problems but you will also have a LOT of other honest pople behind you.Example TV shows like W5 or 60 secs,they do the dirty side of news ,sometimes they get interviews ,sometimes they do not.UFC reporter Ariel Helwani,often in Dana White's doghouse to the point Dana did ban him from shows but he is likely more popular than any other reporter so yeah just saying.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
To me this single player idea is nothing more than their take on how to generate interest and money.You know similar to Landmark and similar to that game that went bankrupt "the baseball pitcher's game". Kingdoms of Amalar or something like that also tried to have a single player portion to try and generate revenue.
IMO they are making a big mistake but i assume one they feel they need to make.I can only explain from my perspective
Hrm, yea, big mistake is right, considering how well that worked for Landmark and Kingdoms of Amalar. Ah, guess "making a game in an attempt to bolster their actual game" really should be one of the bigger red flags for something (though in CoE's case it had a lot more red flags before that, anyways).
Kingdoms of Amalar was actually an amazing single player rpg, had one of the best combat systems of any rpg I have played.
I never said it wasn't amazing. It just clearly wasn't as useful from a business perspective for propping up the game they wanted to make than they or anyone would have liked, apparently.
Yes, that's the "magic formula" that supposedly will make CoE possible.
SpatialOS is claimed to be a revolutionary piece of middleware that promises to drastically change what is possible in MMO development, but it is not proven in any production environment. There's very few people in the world that have ANY experience using it, simply because it is a brand new product with a very small user base.
Relying on bleeding-edge tech to make your game possible is a very risky plan.
Worlds Adrift is the only MMO I know that is using SpatialOS, and their development has been hit by constant delays.
Kyleran said: Discovery of America, landing on the moon, smartphones, the fall of the Soviet Union, election of a black President, election of a buffoon for President etc.
History is full of examples of people accomplishing what most feel is impossible.
Even so, those accomplishments still required lots of money to make happen.
Yes, that's the "magic formula" that supposedly will make CoE possible.
SpatialOS is claimed to be a revolutionary piece of middleware that promises to drastically change what is possible in MMO development, but it is not proven in any production environment. There's very few people in the world that have ANY experience using it, simply because it is a brand new product with a very small user base.
Relying on bleeding-edge tech to make your game possible is a very risky plan.
Worlds Adrift is the only MMO I know that is using SpatialOS, and their development has been hit by constant delays.
If you did that, you are then 3 months behind if the game ever does launch. I think it was $100 or $150 if you wanted the 3 month early start. Yeah I know character age but it just means that John the Blacksmith passes on his business to John JR
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes, that's the "magic formula" that supposedly will make CoE possible.
SpatialOS is claimed to be a revolutionary piece of middleware that promises to drastically change what is possible in MMO development, but it is not proven in any production environment. There's very few people in the world that have ANY experience using it, simply because it is a brand new product with a very small user base.
Relying on bleeding-edge tech to make your game possible is a very risky plan.
Worlds Adrift is the only MMO I know that is using SpatialOS, and their development has been hit by constant delays.
Having used SpatialOS some I believe it can do what it is claimed.. But the SpatialOS team has just started EARLY EARLY development on the Unreal Intergration. I mean super barebones stuff atm. Now Unity has a really flushed out intergration. But Unreal has just entered into the picture and its nowhere near production ready yet. Not without a team of 20+ programmers working on intergrating the two together for you.
its @least another 3 years to get this mmo.. if it even comes
Me as well! Thankfully I had the wisdom to avoid falling for these kickstarter ploys.
If people would stop giving and starting asking these companies to do business the old fashion way which would be they can find their own investment capitol and take the risk and bring a product to market and we buy it giving them profit. I guess their are just to many sheep to shear these days and that is currently our past.
One day this kickstart craze model will pop and implode and something else will happen. Better or worse I really don't care. I just like leaving comments like these so people can pass over them while puking as equally needless opinions onto pixel walls.
its @least another 3 years to get this mmo.. if it even comes
Me as well! Thankfully I had the wisdom to avoid falling for these kickstarter ploys.
If people would stop giving and starting asking these companies to do business the old fashion way which would be they can find their own investment capitol and take the risk and bring a product to market and we buy it giving them profit. I guess their are just to many sheep to shear these days and that is currently our past.
One day this kickstart craze model will pop and implode and something else will happen. Better or worse I really don't care. I just like leaving comments like these so people can pass over them while puking as equally needless opinions onto pixel walls.
It's driven by the desire to buy an advantage. By my calculations more than half of the Kickstarter funds were raised by people that pledged between $250 and $10,000. You can buy yourself land, titles (up to king), and points that can be used to buy things like buildings, siege weapons, mounts and resources. To top it off, you can pay for a 3 month no-wipe head start.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I mentioned earlier in the thread that MMORPG.com would not have asked any "tough" questions to the people running this game, in the hopes that they would be a paid advertiser or sponsor here.
I was wrong.
They have already paid MMORPG.com at least once to run an advertisement "article" here. As follows:
Discussion / SPONSORED - Chronicles of Elyria - Soulbound's Dream MMO Kickstarter Begins Today.
So they started paying MMORPG.com a while back. Expect no "biting of the wallet that feeds them".
Edit Bah, link did not work.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that MMORPG.com would not have asked any "tough" questions to the people running this game, in the hopes that they would be a paid advertiser or sponsor here.
I was wrong.
They have already paid MMORPG.com at least once to run an advertisement "article" here. As follows:
Discussion / SPONSORED - Chronicles of Elyria - Soulbound's Dream MMO Kickstarter Begins Today.
So they started paying MMORPG.com a while back. Expect no "biting of the wallet that feeds them".
Edit Bah, link did not work.
Their ad banners have also been all over this site for the past few weeks or so. Heck, I see one right underneath this forum posting box I'm typing in right now.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that MMORPG.com would not have asked any "tough" questions to the people running this game, in the hopes that they would be a paid advertiser or sponsor here.
I was wrong.
They have already paid MMORPG.com at least once to run an advertisement "article" here. As follows:
Discussion / SPONSORED - Chronicles of Elyria - Soulbound's Dream MMO Kickstarter Begins Today.
So they started paying MMORPG.com a while back. Expect no "biting of the wallet that feeds them".
Edit Bah, link did not work.
Their ad banners have also been all over this site for the past few weeks or so. Heck, I see one right underneath this forum posting box I'm typing in right now.
Which is frankly another problem: the people behind CoE continue to solicit people (suckers) to fork over cash for a game the devs admit will never be made without a major outside investor. And MMORPG.com is taking cash to assist in this scam. For a slice of the cash. That tells you all you need to know about what the people behind this site think about gamers, and is a new low for this place. Might be time to stop coming here....
Comments
Well we don't know how much money they have, and we don't know how much Albion had. For that matter, Shards online does a lot of the same features, but they "raised" $50,000 on Kickstarter, a number which certainly wasn't indicative of what was needed to complete it.
There has been a total of 1 lawsuit due to crowdfunding and it was for a TCG, not a video game. I think you're thinking of Jason Appleton (I think is his name?). It definitely doesn't set a good precedent, but it's not indicative of crowdfunded projects. Actually, I've never had a game I backed fail to deliver something. I can say that confidently now The Repop servers are going back online. Fuck, I think that even Pathfinder Online is being resurrected, isn't it?
On the whole, though, I'd agree that MMOs don't TEND to lend themselves to crowdfunding, since their timelines tend to be longer and they are much riskier.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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So did people pay a shitton of money for an MMO, but now are given a single player game or was the single player part always on the table?
Because I've seen they offer 10k for people for kingship, so have people just paid 10k to be a king of an empty world or NPCs?
He ran off with the money and then posted pictures of his new house on facebook.
No the game I am thinking about was named something with M.. Meridian.. Meriva.. Mavi.. I can't remember.
Either way it was an action adventure like the classic Zelda games and the feature list was rather low so the game could actually have been made.
Either way a critic kept covering the story:
The second last entry was that the dev promised a full refund a year ago.
That thread had been updated some weeks ago stating that the dev was now just silencing people asking when they would finally get the refund.
The critic then asked Kickstarter what they would do about this and they stated that according to their rules they will do.. nothing.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
Uruketo, 70 Bard/Ninja/Warrior
<Grievance> Free Company
Final Fantasy XIV - Midgardsormr
http://www.grievancegaming.com/
First that netcode is designed around a multiplayer game in which MOST if not all the code is actually ran on the client so it is severely limited on what can not be hacked. What that means is MOST if not all of the game can literally be hacked from the client side since the game code is rather public access.
Secondly, there is no database interface in unreal engine or for that matter no distribution, load balancing of any sort or any kind of cluster management so the most players on per server would be, given the current design with all this server side execution and a six core processor pumping full throttle, ~40 with a world size just under 4 KM square trying to handle a simulation of maybe couple hundred mobs. Given that there is no replication between servers than zoning is the only option. Not exactly a OW engine without the cluster management but again they probably know more than I do since I only been programming 39 years and have 25 years in engineering live real time systems.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
http://www.wired.co.uk/article/improbable-spatialos-simulated-cities
"Jeromy, will you be able to release this game with all planned features by December 31's 2017, yes or no?" Is not gonna happen. Instead you'll get "So how is development proceeding? Are things going well?" to which they can always respond yes. No firm numbers, no dates, no promises, not really a lie... depending on your point of view and sounds positive for potential investors doing their research.
If you toss hard questions at too many developers then you end up on an uninvited list, and find your way blocked to all the good after parties. Then you become that bitter reporter who prints any rumor you come across since no one will talk to you personally.
If you want people to believe in your integrity then you need to be straightforward.
If all you are doing is running a business,then you are misleading your viewers to the point you are saying,i have no respect for my viewers,screw them,they are just meat i use to make money from.
So imo do NOT even go there,if you cannot be straight forward and honest,then just stick to posting ad banners and keep those softball interviews to yourself because they are meaningless to viewers.
There is something also misleading about the assumptions.If you post negative material,that developer is likely going to want a reprieve,to give their own story and that is how it works.Look no further than the mud that washed up on Star Citizen and how quickly Chris Robert's came out of the wood work.
There a LOT of big name reporters that dig deep and dirty and yes you will run into problems but you will also have a LOT of other honest pople behind you.Example TV shows like W5 or 60 secs,they do the dirty side of news ,sometimes they get interviews ,sometimes they do not.UFC reporter Ariel Helwani,often in Dana White's doghouse to the point Dana did ban him from shows but he is likely more popular than any other reporter so yeah just saying.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
SpatialOS is claimed to be a revolutionary piece of middleware that promises to drastically change what is possible in MMO development, but it is not proven in any production environment. There's very few people in the world that have ANY experience using it, simply because it is a brand new product with a very small user base.
Relying on bleeding-edge tech to make your game possible is a very risky plan.
Worlds Adrift is the only MMO I know that is using SpatialOS, and their development has been hit by constant delays.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/461623/ion-dean-halls-space-survival-title-is-no-more-general-news#latest
SpatialOS is the crux here...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If people would stop giving and starting asking these companies to do business the old fashion way which would be they can find their own investment capitol and take the risk and bring a product to market and we buy it giving them profit. I guess their are just to many sheep to shear these days and that is currently our past.
One day this kickstart craze model will pop and implode and something else will happen. Better or worse I really don't care. I just like leaving comments like these so people can pass over them while puking as equally needless opinions onto pixel walls.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Anyway, I do wish them luck with it.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.