So we will curb the many complaints about Destiny 1 and hide that behind an argument weather it is mmo or not?
There is a LOT that goes into game design,it takes a LOT of work to make it really good,so i am not about to start praising any developer until i see what they can do.
To lay claim Destiny 2 is good for the industry before it is even out is like saying Wow was good for the industry even though it kickstarted nothing but clone after clone after clone.
It takes a lot of effort to make a game, a JOURNEY,to create lots of systems and scripts the entire way.
So let's WAIT and see if they can build a game as good as they advertise.
Ok let's try this angle, mmo sites are starving. Any sort of MMO that can get some clicks is huge for us right now. IMO Destiny was a major let down but it has a following and generates clicks so i welcome Destiny 2. Besides it's not like we have a lot of non crowd funded options right now.
Awesome, honest and spot on answer Tim, keeping the lights on here is a terrific reason to cover it.
Fact its coming to the PC means its good for players who prefer the platform.
But as its not an MMO except only under the most extreme twisting of the term don't make the claim it's good for the genre.
As is clear from this thread, you are just confusing people. Soon they won't have any idea what the term actually means.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Destiny 1 has arena PvP only. For reasons that escape me, it's extremely popular.
I would be amazed if Destiny 2 did things any differently.
That's what I'm wondering when I hear talk of, "mmo." Will this game now have open world pvp, if so...I'm so all freaking in, the warmonger will return for Bill!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
dude Massively had people calling Call of Duty and any other online game "MMOS" as well.. that term has lost its meaning and now is just a marketing PR tactic.
I told you all here years ago we should abandon the term MMO all together. no more MMO-RPG, or MMO-FPS, or MMO-anything. Just abandon that term and create a new term to replace the old. Let Developers and Marketers continue to use the term which lost its meaning.
Destiny is 100% an MMO and was designed that way from the beginning. It is instanced out purposefully to fit players so you are never alone. Hosting off the central hub system where players interacted and having PvP separated out into its own arena zones...honestly, the game is more MMO than you realize. Just because it is not one giant open world, it hosts large groups of players in zones throughout the game. Lots of MMOs have gone this route over the years as it is just easier to manage your player base and not have latency issues. Console game play had to be fast paced and smooth, so breaking it out made sense. Destiny and Destiny 2 are shooter MMOs. All Bungie said was they did not want the game categorized into one genre.
Wait so is 7 Days to Die a MMO as well using your logic?
Some people around here spend so much time and effort trying to define what it and what isnt an MMO I dont think they actually play them anymore.
Whether its a Persistent Online Shooter or a MMORPG doesnt matter. What matters is the people playing it and there will be overlap with shooter players and MMO players with a game like Destiny.
But, Destiny 1 was very popular despite the many many flaws it launched with. If Bungie can take the opportunity afforded them with a sequel to outright change some of the more problematic systems for the better then Destiny 2 could firmly entrench itself as a major force among MMO players.
well because we as consumers use labels to identify products. Calling NBA2k17 a fighting game, could lead somebody to buy it trying to get a Shaqfu fighting game. But hey, it was mislabeled and caused damage to consumers that didnt know better. Some of us here are experienced to know the differences, but when new games come out with little info other than the stuff from media outlets, and those media outlets are calling NBA2k17 a fighting game, and we want to new fighting game, what results do you expect to get?
radical example, but still the point still stands. I want a MMOFPS, but all the MMOsites are telling me Call of Duty Advance World Warfare 2, is a MMO and I get it, I will be disappointed because I got a false advertised product. Wasted my time and money.
MMO is so 2000. It's a shared world FPS.... get with the program SWRPG.COM
You realize how many folks would click on the link to the SWRPG.COM homepage and be utterly disappointed when it wasn't an official site for a new Star Wars RPG??
Some people around here spend so much time and effort trying to define what it and what isnt an MMO I dont think they actually play them anymore.
Whether its a Persistent Online Shooter or a MMORPG doesnt matter. What matters is the people playing it and there will be overlap with shooter players and MMO players with a game like Destiny.
But, Destiny 1 was very popular despite the many many flaws it launched with. If Bungie can take the opportunity afforded them with a sequel to outright change some of the more problematic systems for the better then Destiny 2 could firmly entrench itself as a major force among MMO players.
Agreed, but in the end it's hipsters being hipsters. There's always a subset of an audience who thinks they're the authority on all aspects of their interest, when in the end it's just about them being the authority (they were there first in their minds so they own it).............. It's worthless to engage such people really...
Maybe to some it's that but labels, as descriptive shorthand are only useful when your audience agrees that you're both talking about the same thing.
I seriously think that Funcom had a stroke of genius when they decided to call their Secret World relaunch a "shared world RPG." It's a much more inclusive and descriptive label that sidesteps all the inevitable discussion about whether an old label is being used in the old fashioned or new way.
I think Shared World is a much better label for a lot of these games than MMO ever was... and then we can just argue about how RPGish the games are
I had a better way to call them.
Hard Cap Multiplayer Online Game,
and
Soft Cap Multiplayer Online Games
Since all multiplayer games, MMO or not, have some kind of cap on the number of players, some games just have a more flexible number of players in the same gameplay without breaking the design. Those are what I call Soft Caps.
Basketball for instance has a hard cap of 10 players at a time. putting 15 players in the game suddenly would break the mechanics. Thats why this is a Hard-Cap multiplayer game.
Games like Call of Duty has a hard cap fixed number of players. Destiny has a hard cap fixed number of players. Guild Wars 1 had a fixed number of players.
World of Warcraft doesnt have fixed numbers of players except in instances such as Raid Dungeons, and PvP. The World is fully open to all the players to interact with each other until the soft cap is reached and effect stability.
@SBFord I actually did and he said it was an mmo so what exactly are you talking about? I'm not insulting anything, I'm stating the fact that it is not an mmo which the creators of the game have even said.
MMORPG
massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.
The phrase "massively multiplayer" in that definition is defined as "interacting with a large number of players". That is clearly defined according to Random House. That happens in the hubs in the case of Destiny and GW.
The anecdotal examples you provide in the body of your post don't contradict that definition even if you choose to imply those numbers mean something else.
You haven't proven or more importantly disproven the premise that the definition clearly defines massively multiplayer clearly.
masterful stroke of "Blackwhite"
Ignore the clear examples of almost every game in the genre created in the first 10 years or more of it's history and point to a model first made popular in 2005 by GW1 who's creators clearly labeled it a CORPG because they understood what they had built with their "lobby" game.
Nothing anecdotal about the evidence in any way.
I'm not saying Destiny is or is not an MMO, BUT @Torval has a valid point, too. Also, if we're being fair, I'm not even sure how many players are supported in modern MMOs. Aren't games like ESO, WS, WoW, etc. broken down into instances, zones, shards, etc. all convening in hubs? I could be wrong, that's an actual literal question.
From a philosophical question, If Destiny said they supported 1000 players per zone and then load balanced their servers to never put more than 16 per zone, would that make them an MMO? I think it's more than players supported too.
WoW back when I played it had "Zones", same as the country of the USA has different states, all linked together to form a large body of land that you can travel freely between. So zones in WoW were not instances. They were segments of the game world. The world itself was still persistent and seamless.
Looter shooters can be fun with friends but I prefer a solid singleplayer shooter experience over the bullet spongy type bosses you get in looter shooters.
The conversation about whether destiny and wow is the same genre is fairly pointless, the gameplay isn't the same and it won't make any difference to the mmorpg genre if destiny 2 is successful.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
"I know many of you hate the idea of Destiny being considered an MMO. It is one. Even Bungie admits it without outright saying it by including us in all of their media invites."
I don't care what genre people think Destiny fits into, but this statement is asinine. This hasn't been an MMO exclusive site for quite a while now. You cover Overwatch, LoL, Mass Effect, and plenty of single player games. Inviting you to their press events means absolutely jack shit about what genre Bungie considers their game to be.
A couple of years ago, you may have had a point. Today, it just looks foolish and pretentious, and this is coming from somebody who has defended (for the most part) the decision to broaden the spectrum of games covered here.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
If Destiny 2 tries to be more MMO than Destiny 1 then they better have a persistent world like Firefall and Defiance. Otherwise it's just another online only shooter to throw on the pile.
It's an above average to reasonably good shooter - but that's all. Why are people losing their shit over it? Thier are any number of as good, if not better games, already on PC. I guess for consoles it was TGTE but on PC? Come on. It's just another game like a bunch we've already seen.
It doesn't matter if Destiny 1 & 2 are MMO's, or not.
The first game was very flawed and I'm not letting my friends talk me into the sequel this time around. Maybe it will be a good game, but we should all be skeptical before jumping onto that hype train.
The formula has potential, but it needs a lot of work to be worth the hype they will obviously build up this time around.
I consider it an MMO. If I can meet up with others while randomly exploring/questing/doing missions, it's an MMO in some regard. Instanced, hub-based MMO's are just a different kind of MMO, and Destiny is one small step above this.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Comments
Fact its coming to the PC means its good for players who prefer the platform.
But as its not an MMO except only under the most extreme twisting of the term don't make the claim it's good for the genre.
As is clear from this thread, you are just confusing people. Soon they won't have any idea what the term actually means.
Weird
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
dude Massively had people calling Call of Duty and any other online game "MMOS" as well.. that term has lost its meaning and now is just a marketing PR tactic.
I told you all here years ago we should abandon the term MMO all together. no more MMO-RPG, or MMO-FPS, or MMO-anything. Just abandon that term and create a new term to replace the old. Let Developers and Marketers continue to use the term which lost its meaning.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Wait so is 7 Days to Die a MMO as well using your logic?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
well because we as consumers use labels to identify products. Calling NBA2k17 a fighting game, could lead somebody to buy it trying to get a Shaqfu fighting game. But hey, it was mislabeled and caused damage to consumers that didnt know better. Some of us here are experienced to know the differences, but when new games come out with little info other than the stuff from media outlets, and those media outlets are calling NBA2k17 a fighting game, and we want to new fighting game, what results do you expect to get?
radical example, but still the point still stands. I want a MMOFPS, but all the MMOsites are telling me Call of Duty Advance World Warfare 2, is a MMO and I get it, I will be disappointed because I got a false advertised product. Wasted my time and money.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I had a better way to call them.
Hard Cap Multiplayer Online Game,
and
Soft Cap Multiplayer Online Games
Since all multiplayer games, MMO or not, have some kind of cap on the number of players, some games just have a more flexible number of players in the same gameplay without breaking the design. Those are what I call Soft Caps.
Basketball for instance has a hard cap of 10 players at a time. putting 15 players in the game suddenly would break the mechanics. Thats why this is a Hard-Cap multiplayer game.
Games like Call of Duty has a hard cap fixed number of players. Destiny has a hard cap fixed number of players. Guild Wars 1 had a fixed number of players.
World of Warcraft doesnt have fixed numbers of players except in instances such as Raid Dungeons, and PvP. The World is fully open to all the players to interact with each other until the soft cap is reached and effect stability.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
So Diablo 2 is a MMO?
Ark a MMO?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
WoW back when I played it had "Zones", same as the country of the USA has different states, all linked together to form a large body of land that you can travel freely between. So zones in WoW were not instances. They were segments of the game world. The world itself was still persistent and seamless.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
The conversation about whether destiny and wow is the same genre is fairly pointless, the gameplay isn't the same and it won't make any difference to the mmorpg genre if destiny 2 is successful.
I don't care what genre people think Destiny fits into, but this statement is asinine. This hasn't been an MMO exclusive site for quite a while now. You cover Overwatch, LoL, Mass Effect, and plenty of single player games. Inviting you to their press events means absolutely jack shit about what genre Bungie considers their game to be.
A couple of years ago, you may have had a point. Today, it just looks foolish and pretentious, and this is coming from somebody who has defended (for the most part) the decision to broaden the spectrum of games covered here.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
http://medias.luna-atra.fr/gw2/char_tool/CT_imageGenerator.php?pseudo=Centurion Mikal&lang=EN&code=&code=TSwtLDUsLSw2LC0sMjksOSwyMiwyMywyNCwtLDEwMiwzNiw4MSw4NCw4OQ==
but hey, at least he insulted.
i know enough people enjoying Destiny.
Fix your own probs dude. None here.
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
This amount of hype is stupid.
The first game was very flawed and I'm not letting my friends talk me into the sequel this time around. Maybe it will be a good game, but we should all be skeptical before jumping onto that hype train.
The formula has potential, but it needs a lot of work to be worth the hype they will obviously build up this time around.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Why I still come here and read this crap by journalists parading as gamers is beyond me.