idk...it looks to be everything i've been asking for in an MMO....OLD SKOOL. yeah, it'll be niche. i'm also cool with that. one thing i can say for sure, this will have the best community of players in a modern MMO. this one will keep out most of the crybaby kiddies, they'll say "it's too slow and boring for me" - the entitled milennial generation of instant gratification won't be able to handle it.
As someome who has tried to get multiple younger gamers into Project 99 - none of them were able to handle it for even 3 days.
My guild is already Pantheon bound and several of us are early backers... but how long will it keep us - as all of us have put in years into EQ1 and raided together.
It remains to be seen.
Well, I imagine P99 is quite the adjustment lol. Closest thing I've tried to P99 is the old EQ1 Mac server like 10 years ago, and I didn't last more than a few sessions.
I'm surprised I found the whole thing even more immersion breaking than most other MMOs, which considering how immersion breaking most other MMOs are already, is quite a feat.
6 guys beating on one guard who doesn't look notably stronger than them in terms of looks or animation, and everyone just doing some really lame animation per attack then standing there doing nothing for a while, along with everyone just standing there in the same place, along with the feign death split pulls...
Oh, and my possible favorite: "That guy threw a rock at me! I'm going to go get him whlie the rest of you all stay here!" followed by 10 minutes of him not coming back and the other guys still just... standing there. (at least when the ol' rock throwing trick happens in TV shows, the guard is taken out instantly with the rest soon to follow to justify why the guards don't catch on)
A bunch of elite adventurers charging at a pile of guards like most MMOs have it these days and slaughtering them might not be the most realistic thing in the world but it's still within my willing suspension of belief unlike this... thing.
It looks like it will scratch the itch old school EQ players want. Which is great as that is what they are going for. How popular and for how long will remain to be seen.
15 years ago I would have loved this, now I am just not sure. Back then I loved playing games like this, but moved on even tho the games I played for years were still up and running servers. Hopefully the targeted audience will make this a success.
I wish them and the fans all the best of luck with a smooth release. I will remain watchful of the progress and take a closer look when it is fully released.
all these upcoming "oldschool mmorpg" from kickstarter and whatnot all look underwhelming. What's their appeal now? I've played ultima, eq, asherons call and multiple mmorpgs these games are trying to emulate and hard to see the appeal now. Maybe I'm a couple years younger than the intended audience i don't know. Seems more like something somone 50+ would enjoy
We have played this before - some of us for 7+ years
I mean its awesome to see all the FD pulling and CC mechanics of old
but again I have done this for 7 years, this is a 100% known playstyle to many
After the first few weeks of "yeah CC and FD pulls and LFG tank and LFG healer"....
How long before the nostalgia wears off and you are right back at - Ive done all this before.
This is why Pantheons longevity will hinge on NEW mechanics as people will quickly get their fill of old mechanics
Agreed.
Nostalgia is only going to get them so far. I played EQ1 and DAoC for many many years. And while I miss CC, group mechanics, dangerous pulls, ect. It is something I did for years.
I hope they can add some new in with the old as well.
I do really miss actually having to pay attention and use tactics as a group to complete content in the world. Not just in a raid or two.
We have played this before - some of us for 7+ years
I mean its awesome to see all the FD pulling and CC mechanics of old
but again I have done this for 7 years, this is a 100% known playstyle to many
After the first few weeks of "yeah CC and FD pulls and LFG tank and LFG healer"....
How long before the nostalgia wears off and you are right back at - Ive done all this before.
This is why Pantheons longevity will hinge on NEW mechanics as people will quickly get their fill of old mechanics
Agreed.
Nostalgia is only going to get them so far. I played EQ1 and DAoC for many many years. And while I miss CC, group mechanics, dangerous pulls, ect. It is something I did for years.
I hope they can add some new in with the old as well.
I do really miss actually having to pay attention and use tactics as a group to complete content in the world. Not just in a raid or two.
Thats a big part of whats missing in todays twitch MMOs. Someone pulls, everyone does the same thing. AE and next group of mobs. With Pantheon people will need to watch for adds CC or Off tank. Caster will not just attack the tank, their AI will have them nuking what they think is the biggest threat. So the team will need to watch to break casting. Mobs spawning in camps will change from spawn to spawn. The team will need to watch the pulling and react to what happening. Cant wait.
Thats a big part of whats missing in todays twitch MMOs. Someone pulls, everyone does the same thing. AE and next group of mobs. With Pantheon people will need to watch for adds CC or Off tank. Caster will not just attack the tank, their AI will have them nuking what they think is the biggest threat. So the team will need to watch to break casting. Mobs spawning in camps will change from spawn to spawn. The team will need to watch the pulling and react to what happening. Cant wait.
Hopefully when the actual game comes out, watching for adds, CC, or Off Tank, as well as casters nuking what they think is the biggest threat instead of just the tank, alongside the team needing to watch to break casting and mobs spawning in camps changing from spawn to spawn where the team will need to watch the pulling and react to what's happning will involve more than just 6 guys beating down one guard at a time.
Thats a big part of whats missing in todays twitch MMOs. Someone pulls, everyone does the same thing. AE and next group of mobs. With Pantheon people will need to watch for adds CC or Off tank. Caster will not just attack the tank, their AI will have them nuking what they think is the biggest threat. So the team will need to watch to break casting. Mobs spawning in camps will change from spawn to spawn. The team will need to watch the pulling and react to what happening. Cant wait.
Hopefully when the actual game comes out, watching for adds, CC, or Off Tank, as well as casters nuking what they think is the biggest threat instead of just the tank, alongside the team needing to watch to break casting and mobs spawning in camps changing from spawn to spawn where the team will need to watch the pulling and react to what's happning will involve more than just 6 guys beating down one guard at a time.
Because like, none of that was in that video.
Some of it was, on a couple pulls the NPC didnt hit the tank taunting it and started nuking the wizard. Team did not react fast enough once and she died. Some NPCs ignored the puller and ran to get friends. I know fans of twitch combat normally miss stuff unless it has big red circles around it =-)
idk...it looks to be everything i've been asking for in an MMO....OLD SKOOL. yeah, it'll be niche. i'm also cool with that. one thing i can say for sure, this will have the best community of players in a modern MMO. this one will keep out most of the crybaby kiddies, they'll say "it's too slow and boring for me" - the entitled milennial generation of instant gratification won't be able to handle it.
If the posts of Pantheon fans like you and Nanfoodle are anything to go by then this game will have an absolutely horrible community.
I've seen far too many posts by Pantheon fans mocking and outright insulting the intelligence of other posters to believe that the Pantheon community will be anything but a fascist regime.
Seriously, how can a community founded on exclusion and strengthened by hate be a good one?
Currently playing SWTOR and loving it as a single player game. I do miss the old mmorpg social mechanics that requires players to play nice with others. It's how you made friends. I dont mind slow mechanics as long as it isn't too slow.
Overall Im stoked to see this game launch. Im glad they're taking their time with this and ensuring it is well polished before releasing.
Feel bad for the poor souls who dump their money into this dead before arrival game. This game will be shut down with in 2 years and only the most hardcore mentally ill people will play it more than 1 month. Its EQ1 in 2017 with alot of very clunky silly "features" like the weather system which are just irritants and add nothing to gameplay besides existing with constant dot dmg or debuffs.
These guys should be charged with a crime for suckering people from their money. Like it or not video games are 95% a visual experience with those dated clunky ugly visuals noone will play the game, if you dont care about graphics and dig all the mechanics just play a mud or hell eq1 is still running progression servers and all and get ten times the game play you are looking for.
idk...it looks to be everything i've been asking for in an MMO....OLD SKOOL. yeah, it'll be niche. i'm also cool with that. one thing i can say for sure, this will have the best community of players in a modern MMO. this one will keep out most of the crybaby kiddies, they'll say "it's too slow and boring for me" - the entitled milennial generation of instant gratification won't be able to handle it.
Honestly, if you crave old skool NO JOKE EQ1 is still running, evne with progression servers and it has 1000 times the content and non of the never ending bugs patheon will have...so what are you waiting for go play eq1... This is just another cash grab and will end up like vanguard or worse.
Also the AI for the NPC's were basic... they mentioned in the stream of what they want to do with NPC AI for combat. Myself and my fellow guildmates from EQ and EQ2 are definately looking forward to a game that challenges us.
idk...it looks to be everything i've been asking for in an MMO....OLD SKOOL. yeah, it'll be niche. i'm also cool with that. one thing i can say for sure, this will have the best community of players in a modern MMO. this one will keep out most of the crybaby kiddies, they'll say "it's too slow and boring for me" - the entitled milennial generation of instant gratification won't be able to handle it.
If the posts of Pantheon fans like you and Nanfoodle are anything to go by then this game will have an absolutely horrible community.
I've seen far too many posts by Pantheon fans mocking and outright insulting the intelligence of other posters to believe that the Pantheon community will be anything but a fascist regime.
Seriously, how can a community founded on exclusion and strengthened by hate be a good one?
You know, having been deeply involved with interacting and even building EQ and VG's communities as well as some other games, I just can't agree with you totally here. Yes, there are some over-zealous fans who attack or get defensive. I've posted several times in several places as to why we need to avoid this and spread the word about the game in a positive and respectful way -- and I will ask all of you reading this to please do that.
But to judge the greater community based on a few over-zealous and rude persons I think is not a valid extrapolation. On the contrary, I think overall our community has been fantastic, positive, happy to answer questions from those who know less about the game, etc. In fact, I'm quite proud of our community. Every community is going to have some bad apples, or even people who are true fans and mean well, but just don't come across that way in their word choice or expression. But I know that can be hard when you are really passionate about something -- heck, we deal with it internally where someone might get a little to wound up and say something to the team that could have been said better and more productively. But then, because of the amazing respect we have for each other and this fantastic team culture we've built and are committed to protecting, these minor altercations are quickly fixed and addressed and we all move forward together.
I see the analogy of the dev team and the community as pretty valid. In both you have very passionate, talented, outspoken, and tenacious people. You have people who care so deeply about Pantheon that at times they can be defensive when something is said or implied. It's actually something we work on all of the time -- communication -- especially because many in the team are remote (it is easier to avoid some of this stuff if you're in the same office together, mon-fri).
You also have the same types of personalities in the community, especially those in the community that speak up and speak out. They too can get too defensive, or quick to judge, or say something that might be accurate but could have been said in a much less confrontational or negative way.
But you know what? If this wasn't happening, if there wasn't both a dev team and an awesome community so amazingly passionate and excited about Pantheon, that would actually indicate a real problem. I'd much rather people quibble with each other a bit than to be apathetic and not care what is being said or implied or wanted. It's ultimately a sign of how healthy our community is and how well the outside looking in will translate into alpha and beta testers, and then the community post-launch.
So bottom line: yes, I humbly appeal to everyone, fan and skeptic or wherever you fit in, to be respectful, to realize that these other people posting and talking about the game also feel passionately, even feel a sense of ownership. If you disagree on something, and you will, try first to make sure you understand what the person really meant (very easy to miss that in a text post). Then even if you still disagree with what they are truly saying, remember who they are and that they, like you, deserve respect. "A kind answer turns away wrath".
Now of course there will be haters and trolls and the like, and as more and more people become aware of Pantheon, the number of people like that will go up. It's just the way it is. In these cases if you cannot engage with them respectfully (and I mean both ways -- communication is a 2-way street), then just walk away. Stop participating in the thread. Don't try to 'fix' somebody who doesn't want to be. Don't try to educate someone who simply isn't willing to put the effort in to learn about the game. As they say, "don't feed the trolls". And then just move forward, engaging with those who truly do want a dialog, or to express something important to them, an aspect of the game, a feature they are concerned about, some game mechanics that haven't yet been explained in detail, and the concern that can naturally arise.
Obviously these are not our official forums, we don't control them or really have any influence. So, to some degree similar to how it will be in the future in-game, the community has to police themselves to a reasonable point. I remain very optimistic about our growing community and completely convinced we can work through the vast majority of altercations.
Also, as awareness grows, so also will those drawn to Pantheon be less sophisticated... what I mean by that is less aware of the game, of MMOs it draws from in the past... they may be younger.... they may be used to different gameplay, pacing, style. Yes, they may even feel entitled and think that the game should be made exactly how they would like. And no, not all of them will end up liking the game. But I absolutely believe a bunch of them will -- the gamespace has grown more than 10 fold vs the number of online gamers in 1999 (when EQ launched). That means more than the group is larger -- it means more varieties of people with differing tastes and experiences will enter this community. Please realize that this happening is essential to the success of the game. It might be tempting to just write-off or ignore or marginalize this incoming group of people (mostly younger folks, millennials). But we can't. We need to engage them, take the time to explain why you are excited about Pantheon, what makes it tick, what it's bringing back that has been missing so long from MMOs, and also the exciting new game mechanics and features that we're building up and upon the foundational MMO experience we already mostly have in place. Let them know why they are seeing what they are seeing in these twitch streams. Take the time to politely point out what makes a game like Pantheon so unique (nowadays) and fun in ways that most current MMOs aren't. There really isn't a game like Pantheon in development right now of which I'm aware. I like that. I like the idea of filling in this gap and providing a long missed experience for a large group of old school gamers who have literally felt orphaned by the less social, less community focused, less cooperative and flat-out easier MMOs of late.
--continued------
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
But our target audience is bigger than that group. We are casting a broader net, so to speak. We are absolutely convinced that a large group of younger players will end up loving the game, assuming we can reach them, show them something that seems fun and interesting, provide answers to their questions no matter how simple or sophisticated. These people love Dark Souls, Call of Duty, the better MOBAs, the survival games -- they crave both challenge and risk and reward, but they also crave experiencing these things together with other real people. There's just something that's part of human nature where if you experience something exciting, dangerous, tension-filled, etc. and you experience that with other actual people, those events have a greater impact and create much deeper and longer lasting memories. So our challenge (the dev team and the community's) is to figure out how to reach these groups and explain to them what they're looking at, why things work the way they work, and how much FUN these games can be.
And just so you don't think I'm too crazy, no, I don't think the vast majority of these audiences and demographics will all be magically drawn to the game. But, as I've posted before, we're not making a game that is all things to all people. If we can reach a reasonable percentage of those who already do love Pantheon AND those who would once given a chance to experience it, then we will have success, the game will grow, expansions with new content and crazy new features will be released, and we'll have another game on our hands that's still running even 17 years after launch. 15 million online gamers? 10% is still 1.5M. 1% is 150,000 gamers. EQ was very successful and profitable at 150,000 gamers, peaking at 550k. Small numbers yes when compared later to WoW, but plenty large enough to employ a dedicated dev team, live teams, expansion teams, support and GM/CS teams, etc. etc.
And while I'm convinced we will be much closer to 10% than 1%, probably even higher, the point is that while we don't need a massive ton of people to achieve success, we do need to make a large number of people aware and familiar with the game. They need to be aware and have at least a general understanding before they can determine if the game looks interesting enough to try. That's where you guys come in, the existing community -- welcome these people in, take the time to help them understand, tell them some great experiences you and your guildmates had years ago and why you still talk about that shared experience today, how it truly impacted you. How many of your friends you still hang out with are people you met online and in-game years and years ago because the game was social and encouraged making true friends that you could count on, in and outside of the game. Don't get mired down into debate over what are usually minor issues, or mechanics and features we purposely haven't released the details on yet. Don't look down on the younger folk, even if they are only used to Destiny-like hopping around and firing as fast as you can but not really being part of true teamwork and tactics. Heck, even if they come across entitled. Or skeptical. Or just generally negative. React respectfully and explain and it may be surprising to you how positive the reaction will be.
We, you and I, can still get through to many/most of these types. And yes, this community, while not perfect, is already a great community and have both spread the word, but also explained and introduced the game, and made people feel welcome. The OPs are right in that we shouldn't be mocking or insulting. But built upon exclusion? A fascist regime? Hyperbole at best, but hey, let it slide and put your PatheON back on!! Upward and onward!
-Brad
ps. one great place to support the game and reach people unfamiliar with Pantheon are in the comments in YouTube under the two streams we recently did and are posted on our channel (as well as Cohh's). You'll find all sorts of comments and questions that clearly are coming from people curious enough about Pantheon to watch the video and then take the time to post, yet sufficiently unfamiliar with the game such that they ask some really peculiar questions. Those people there are perfect to reach out to.... *something* brought them to the stream, then *something* brought them to watch part or all of it, and then *something* interested them enough to post.. positively, negatively, skeptically... it doesn't really matter. Unless it's a completely obvious troll, jump on in and help them understand. Sure, I know that ultimately this is our job -- Kilsin and company are out there responding as much as possible to comments, to posts on threads, supporting message boards outside of our company as well as supporting our own forums, our VIP pledgers, etc. And they're doing a great job. But I just wanted to also point out that when someone from the community as opposed to a developer posts, many people will take that more seriously. They may not trust or have some skepticism regarding what a Visionary Realms employee says, who is paid to work on and promote the game. Understandable, I get it. But as Cohh has pointed out in these recent streams, we're not paying him a penny -- he's supporting us tremendously because of how much he wants to play Pantheon. Well, the same goes for you -- if you post something it can have more impact than if we do. Thanks for listening. /verbose OFF
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-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
You cant build a modern MMO purely off nostalgia. This looks absolutely terrible and odds are this game will never make it past the good ol' never ending open beta/steam release phase.
What I really dont understand is, outside maybe killing it on kickstarter/gofundme/micro-securities or other similar soon-to-be-regulated by the SEC scams, why the *&^% would you waste so much of your life on something thats clearly guaranteed to be a failure.
I love the streams. I can not wait for this game. This truly feels like the spiritual successor to EverQuest, far more than EQ2 was. I can't wait to get back to meeting new friends online, forming groups, and using the internet to actually adventure WITH other people again. I think people will be surprised to see the numbers on release. Sure the MMO genre has evolved and brought in million and million more players, but it has abandoned some of the Old School mentality players. It's Niche, but a large niche that originally supported the entire genre to begin with. Keep it up McQuaid!
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
As i expected,some ideas i really like and some leave me worried.At least it does do some good things which keeps me interested.
Just not a fan of devs using prominent streamers to promote their game.
With little money how should they promote it.
Same way they did in the past,FREE trials,sop instead of watching or pretending we know what is going on we see first hand.
Even SC a game i don't care for and despise what Chris Robert's stands for has offered several free days of fly around.
There is NO better way to promote than to let onlookers in to try it.As well twitch is a real popular hangout,the owners are billionaires,so put it on twitch w/o the named sponsored streamers and just have the devs explain stuff,it's not hard really it isn't.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As i expected,some ideas i really like and some leave me worried.At least it does do some good things which keeps me interested.
Just not a fan of devs using prominent streamers to promote their game.
With little money how should they promote it.
Same way they did in the past,FREE trials,sop instead of watching or pretending we know what is going on we see first hand.
Even SC a game i don't care for and despise what Chris Robert's stands for has offered several free days of fly around.
There is NO better way to promote than to let onlookers in to try it.As well twitch is a real popular hangout,the owners are billionaires,so put it on twitch w/o the named sponsored streamers and just have the devs explain stuff,it's not hard really it isn't.
As PottedPlant said, there will be a free trial up to level 10.
As far allowing people in the game before it's done (or even in alpha) I'm not sure if Star Citizen is a good example. Maybe it is, but it seems like flying around "just to fly around" is a bit different than allowing a person into a game where the avatar has animations and the world actually needs to be finished.
However, I'm not familiar with how much Star Citizen lets players see.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
Well, I imagine P99 is quite the adjustment lol. Closest thing I've tried to P99 is the old EQ1 Mac server like 10 years ago, and I didn't last more than a few sessions.
6 guys beating on one guard who doesn't look notably stronger than them in terms of looks or animation, and everyone just doing some really lame animation per attack then standing there doing nothing for a while, along with everyone just standing there in the same place, along with the feign death split pulls...
Oh, and my possible favorite: "That guy threw a rock at me! I'm going to go get him whlie the rest of you all stay here!" followed by 10 minutes of him not coming back and the other guys still just... standing there. (at least when the ol' rock throwing trick happens in TV shows, the guard is taken out instantly with the rest soon to follow to justify why the guards don't catch on)
A bunch of elite adventurers charging at a pile of guards like most MMOs have it these days and slaughtering them might not be the most realistic thing in the world but it's still within my willing suspension of belief unlike this... thing.
15 years ago I would have loved this, now I am just not sure. Back then I loved playing games like this, but moved on even tho the games I played for years were still up and running servers. Hopefully the targeted audience will make this a success.
I wish them and the fans all the best of luck with a smooth release. I will remain watchful of the progress and take a closer look when it is fully released.
He was not paid to do this. He did the streams because he is a backer and a fan.
all these upcoming "oldschool mmorpg" from kickstarter and whatnot all look underwhelming. What's their appeal now? I've played ultima, eq, asherons call and multiple mmorpgs these games are trying to emulate and hard to see the appeal now. Maybe I'm a couple years younger than the intended audience i don't know. Seems more like something somone 50+ would enjoy
Agreed.
Nostalgia is only going to get them so far. I played EQ1 and DAoC for many many years. And while I miss CC, group mechanics, dangerous pulls, ect. It is something I did for years.
I hope they can add some new in with the old as well.
I do really miss actually having to pay attention and use tactics as a group to complete content in the world. Not just in a raid or two.
Thats a big part of whats missing in todays twitch MMOs. Someone pulls, everyone does the same thing. AE and next group of mobs. With Pantheon people will need to watch for adds CC or Off tank. Caster will not just attack the tank, their AI will have them nuking what they think is the biggest threat. So the team will need to watch to break casting. Mobs spawning in camps will change from spawn to spawn. The team will need to watch the pulling and react to what happening. Cant wait.
Hopefully when the actual game comes out, watching for adds, CC, or Off Tank, as well as casters nuking what they think is the biggest threat instead of just the tank, alongside the team needing to watch to break casting and mobs spawning in camps changing from spawn to spawn where the team will need to watch the pulling and react to what's happning will involve more than just 6 guys beating down one guard at a time.
Because like, none of that was in that video.
Some of it was, on a couple pulls the NPC didnt hit the tank taunting it and started nuking the wizard. Team did not react fast enough once and she died. Some NPCs ignored the puller and ran to get friends. I know fans of twitch combat normally miss stuff unless it has big red circles around it =-)
If the posts of Pantheon fans like you and Nanfoodle are anything to go by then this game will have an absolutely horrible community.
I've seen far too many posts by Pantheon fans mocking and outright insulting the intelligence of other posters to believe that the Pantheon community will be anything but a fascist regime.
Seriously, how can a community founded on exclusion and strengthened by hate be a good one?
Overall Im stoked to see this game launch. Im glad they're taking their time with this and ensuring it is well polished before releasing.
These guys should be charged with a crime for suckering people from their money. Like it or not video games are 95% a visual experience with those dated clunky ugly visuals noone will play the game, if you dont care about graphics and dig all the mechanics just play a mud or hell eq1 is still running progression servers and all and get ten times the game play you are looking for.
Honestly, if you crave old skool NO JOKE EQ1 is still running, evne with progression servers and it has 1000 times the content and non of the never ending bugs patheon will have...so what are you waiting for go play eq1... This is just another cash grab and will end up like vanguard or worse.
You know, having been deeply involved with interacting and even building EQ and VG's communities as well as some other games, I just can't agree with you totally here. Yes, there are some over-zealous fans who attack or get defensive. I've posted several times in several places as to why we need to avoid this and spread the word about the game in a positive and respectful way -- and I will ask all of you reading this to please do that.
But to judge the greater community based on a few over-zealous and rude persons I think is not a valid extrapolation. On the contrary, I think overall our community has been fantastic, positive, happy to answer questions from those who know less about the game, etc. In fact, I'm quite proud of our community. Every community is going to have some bad apples, or even people who are true fans and mean well, but just don't come across that way in their word choice or expression. But I know that can be hard when you are really passionate about something -- heck, we deal with it internally where someone might get a little to wound up and say something to the team that could have been said better and more productively. But then, because of the amazing respect we have for each other and this fantastic team culture we've built and are committed to protecting, these minor altercations are quickly fixed and addressed and we all move forward together.
I see the analogy of the dev team and the community as pretty valid. In both you have very passionate, talented, outspoken, and tenacious people. You have people who care so deeply about Pantheon that at times they can be defensive when something is said or implied. It's actually something we work on all of the time -- communication -- especially because many in the team are remote (it is easier to avoid some of this stuff if you're in the same office together, mon-fri).
You also have the same types of personalities in the community, especially those in the community that speak up and speak out. They too can get too defensive, or quick to judge, or say something that might be accurate but could have been said in a much less confrontational or negative way.
But you know what? If this wasn't happening, if there wasn't both a dev team and an awesome community so amazingly passionate and excited about Pantheon, that would actually indicate a real problem. I'd much rather people quibble with each other a bit than to be apathetic and not care what is being said or implied or wanted. It's ultimately a sign of how healthy our community is and how well the outside looking in will translate into alpha and beta testers, and then the community post-launch.
So bottom line: yes, I humbly appeal to everyone, fan and skeptic or wherever you fit in, to be respectful, to realize that these other people posting and talking about the game also feel passionately, even feel a sense of ownership. If you disagree on something, and you will, try first to make sure you understand what the person really meant (very easy to miss that in a text post). Then even if you still disagree with what they are truly saying, remember who they are and that they, like you, deserve respect. "A kind answer turns away wrath".
Now of course there will be haters and trolls and the like, and as more and more people become aware of Pantheon, the number of people like that will go up. It's just the way it is. In these cases if you cannot engage with them respectfully (and I mean both ways -- communication is a 2-way street), then just walk away. Stop participating in the thread. Don't try to 'fix' somebody who doesn't want to be. Don't try to educate someone who simply isn't willing to put the effort in to learn about the game. As they say, "don't feed the trolls". And then just move forward, engaging with those who truly do want a dialog, or to express something important to them, an aspect of the game, a feature they are concerned about, some game mechanics that haven't yet been explained in detail, and the concern that can naturally arise.
Obviously these are not our official forums, we don't control them or really have any influence. So, to some degree similar to how it will be in the future in-game, the community has to police themselves to a reasonable point. I remain very optimistic about our growing community and completely convinced we can work through the vast majority of altercations.
Also, as awareness grows, so also will those drawn to Pantheon be less sophisticated... what I mean by that is less aware of the game, of MMOs it draws from in the past... they may be younger.... they may be used to different gameplay, pacing, style. Yes, they may even feel entitled and think that the game should be made exactly how they would like. And no, not all of them will end up liking the game. But I absolutely believe a bunch of them will -- the gamespace has grown more than 10 fold vs the number of online gamers in 1999 (when EQ launched). That means more than the group is larger -- it means more varieties of people with differing tastes and experiences will enter this community. Please realize that this happening is essential to the success of the game. It might be tempting to just write-off or ignore or marginalize this incoming group of people (mostly younger folks, millennials). But we can't. We need to engage them, take the time to explain why you are excited about Pantheon, what makes it tick, what it's bringing back that has been missing so long from MMOs, and also the exciting new game mechanics and features that we're building up and upon the foundational MMO experience we already mostly have in place. Let them know why they are seeing what they are seeing in these twitch streams. Take the time to politely point out what makes a game like Pantheon so unique (nowadays) and fun in ways that most current MMOs aren't. There really isn't a game like Pantheon in development right now of which I'm aware. I like that. I like the idea of filling in this gap and providing a long missed experience for a large group of old school gamers who have literally felt orphaned by the less social, less community focused, less cooperative and flat-out easier MMOs of late.
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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But our target audience is bigger than that group. We are casting a broader net, so to speak. We are absolutely convinced that a large group of younger players will end up loving the game, assuming we can reach them, show them something that seems fun and interesting, provide answers to their questions no matter how simple or sophisticated. These people love Dark Souls, Call of Duty, the better MOBAs, the survival games -- they crave both challenge and risk and reward, but they also crave experiencing these things together with other real people. There's just something that's part of human nature where if you experience something exciting, dangerous, tension-filled, etc. and you experience that with other actual people, those events have a greater impact and create much deeper and longer lasting memories. So our challenge (the dev team and the community's) is to figure out how to reach these groups and explain to them what they're looking at, why things work the way they work, and how much FUN these games can be.
And just so you don't think I'm too crazy, no, I don't think the vast majority of these audiences and demographics will all be magically drawn to the game. But, as I've posted before, we're not making a game that is all things to all people. If we can reach a reasonable percentage of those who already do love Pantheon AND those who would once given a chance to experience it, then we will have success, the game will grow, expansions with new content and crazy new features will be released, and we'll have another game on our hands that's still running even 17 years after launch. 15 million online gamers? 10% is still 1.5M. 1% is 150,000 gamers. EQ was very successful and profitable at 150,000 gamers, peaking at 550k. Small numbers yes when compared later to WoW, but plenty large enough to employ a dedicated dev team, live teams, expansion teams, support and GM/CS teams, etc. etc.
And while I'm convinced we will be much closer to 10% than 1%, probably even higher, the point is that while we don't need a massive ton of people to achieve success, we do need to make a large number of people aware and familiar with the game. They need to be aware and have at least a general understanding before they can determine if the game looks interesting enough to try. That's where you guys come in, the existing community -- welcome these people in, take the time to help them understand, tell them some great experiences you and your guildmates had years ago and why you still talk about that shared experience today, how it truly impacted you. How many of your friends you still hang out with are people you met online and in-game years and years ago because the game was social and encouraged making true friends that you could count on, in and outside of the game. Don't get mired down into debate over what are usually minor issues, or mechanics and features we purposely haven't released the details on yet. Don't look down on the younger folk, even if they are only used to Destiny-like hopping around and firing as fast as you can but not really being part of true teamwork and tactics. Heck, even if they come across entitled. Or skeptical. Or just generally negative. React respectfully and explain and it may be surprising to you how positive the reaction will be.
We, you and I, can still get through to many/most of these types. And yes, this community, while not perfect, is already a great community and have both spread the word, but also explained and introduced the game, and made people feel welcome. The OPs are right in that we shouldn't be mocking or insulting. But built upon exclusion? A fascist regime? Hyperbole at best, but hey, let it slide and put your PatheON back on!! Upward and onward!
-Brad
ps. one great place to support the game and reach people unfamiliar with Pantheon are in the comments in YouTube under the two streams we recently did and are posted on our channel (as well as Cohh's). You'll find all sorts of comments and questions that clearly are coming from people curious enough about Pantheon to watch the video and then take the time to post, yet sufficiently unfamiliar with the game such that they ask some really peculiar questions. Those people there are perfect to reach out to.... *something* brought them to the stream, then *something* brought them to watch part or all of it, and then *something* interested them enough to post.. positively, negatively, skeptically... it doesn't really matter. Unless it's a completely obvious troll, jump on in and help them understand. Sure, I know that ultimately this is our job -- Kilsin and company are out there responding as much as possible to comments, to posts on threads, supporting message boards outside of our company as well as supporting our own forums, our VIP pledgers, etc. And they're doing a great job. But I just wanted to also point out that when someone from the community as opposed to a developer posts, many people will take that more seriously. They may not trust or have some skepticism regarding what a Visionary Realms employee says, who is paid to work on and promote the game. Understandable, I get it. But as Cohh has pointed out in these recent streams, we're not paying him a penny -- he's supporting us tremendously because of how much he wants to play Pantheon. Well, the same goes for you -- if you post something it can have more impact than if we do. Thanks for listening. /verbose OFF
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Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
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What I really dont understand is, outside maybe killing it on kickstarter/gofundme/micro-securities or other similar soon-to-be-regulated by the SEC scams, why the *&^% would you waste so much of your life on something thats clearly guaranteed to be a failure.
If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!
Same way they did in the past,FREE trials,sop instead of watching or pretending we know what is going on we see first hand.
Even SC a game i don't care for and despise what Chris Robert's stands for has offered several free days of fly around.
There is NO better way to promote than to let onlookers in to try it.As well twitch is a real popular hangout,the owners are billionaires,so put it on twitch w/o the named sponsored streamers and just have the devs explain stuff,it's not hard really it isn't.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You will be able to play up to level 10 for free in Pantheon.
As PottedPlant said, there will be a free trial up to level 10.
As far allowing people in the game before it's done (or even in alpha) I'm not sure if Star Citizen is a good example. Maybe it is, but it seems like flying around "just to fly around" is a bit different than allowing a person into a game where the avatar has animations and the world actually needs to be finished.
However, I'm not familiar with how much Star Citizen lets players see.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo