Me, personally, I don't. I know there's far less people with a spine (pve'ers and roleplayers) on a PVE server/world so I will never join one unless I really absolutely have to...(and in my frame of mind that means I'm one foot out the door to leaving that game/server.)
EDIT: Now if some snowflake reports me for this, I guess you still have to wake up tomorrow living your life. I'm not trying to troll here but if you ever cast a light in the pve'ers/rp'ers direction after proclaiming to be a PVP'er, they'll call you the devil and report you into obscurity.
EDIT2: Then you see them in life and point and laugh. :P
What I mean by cheese, it's just more personal rewards for your character mostly. It has no real political or territorial effect on the game world, right? There's no territory exchanging hands or anything. Resources are just for keeps and towers. And you can never really defeat the other side.
When WvW Started, there were 8 Tiers, with 3 Servers Per Tier. with each server having its own glicko scale, as such, winning and losing would move you up and down the tiers till you met your match, unless you hit the bottom and ended up getting rolled every week.
As for a means to fully conqueror an opposing server, if they had done something like that, I am sure by the end of the first year, Jade Quarry would have destroyed everyone, and that would have ended WvW, which seems like a waste o fan entire game mode to me.
Which might be why they did not do that.
They have since cut it down to 4 tiers, and merged the weaker servers with the stronger ones, (I suppose that could be viewed as being vanquished), but the match ups are not always the same, like for example, Eredon Terrace might merge to Jade Quarry one week, and be teamed up with Black Gate the next.
Again, they have changed WvW since I left, so I am not sure if that is the case anymore.
I have a level 12 sitting on GW2. As an experienced PvE player, the combat was nothing all that special or new to me, even with some of the gimmicks they threw in that I hadn't seen before. So I got bored and refuse to play it again. The World vs. World stuff doesn't sound interesting, meaningful, or significant enough to me to elicit a desire for getting max level in that game. I've played many RTS and turn-based strategy war games in the past, and I am a student of actual military history (and all other forms of history). I know what real war is supposed to be like. If an MMORPG PvP game is nothing like real war, it doesn't interest me.
Yea GW2 has issues. The players have issues. They know they are bleeding players yet they still allow PVEers to troll and trash PVP servers with PVE giving in their two-cents about what PVP'ing is about and what kind of person PVP's. I left GW2 after 3 tickets were closed on a big guild on a PVE server who would in large numbers roll to us to troll us for an hour then log out.
PSST: Oh and as soon as PVP ques hit 1 hour on a game I start thinking of moving on...that full 60 minute thing sends off a flag I can't put down lol.
The best MMOrpgs I've ever played put their primary focus on PvE, in that their intention was on creating interesting worlds and mechanics to develop character identity and make players engaged in the universe. PvP comes afterwards, and this is coming from a diehard PvPer. Creating an interesting world is important to making the PvP feel relevant, otherwise why have PvP in an MMOrpg at all.
If you don't have that you basically just have a MOBA or lobby based PvP game. I think a healthy MMO is one that makes PvPers and PvEr's feel significant simultaneously.
Basically this.
I'd label myself as a hardcore PvPer doing all the crazy PvP games like EVE, Planetside1/2, Shadowbane, UO, etc, etc. Though I've played just as many PvE only games that I've enjoyed.
In the end I think it's the RPG part of MMORPG that is most important and I feel something close to living and breathing worlds are the best implementation of this we can hope for at this point.
For this you need both sides of the coin. What kind of lore/world has something that prevents the guy that doesn't have from taking from the guy that does? If resources are supposed to be rare and or you manage across something others would covet, then for the world to seem somewhat real they need to be able to take their chances at coming after you for it. Same for if you do obnoxious stuff and or put someone else at risk, they should have the option of attacking you for it.
Pure PvE worlds are /fake/ in that they put this magical restriction that forces 99% of the worlds population to play nice with each others. There is little real about a world that can't interact in most ways it would interact if it were real.
On the other hand pure PvP games are /fake/ in a different way. They tend to be mere death-matches with meaningless objectives or land that you can claim as you own but not really make much use of other than putting up your house and to have another reason to fight. Why is my character so willing to fight and die over something so trivial?
No I don't want to mindlessly gank someone weaker than me, there is no point. In games like WoW where there was little reason to PvP other than the excitement of PvP itself I wouldn't target anything of less than equal level. On the other hand if you have a caravan of expensive resources running through my territory and I'm a bandit, you better expect that I will be coming for you and you hopefully were smart enough to have someone that can protect your investment and or be able to protect it yourself.
A living breathing world needs both conflict and cooperation and leaving all conflict up to NPC mobs and or all cooperation up to NPC mobs makes both worlds fake and mechanical.
My ideal world is where I could be something like law enforcement or bounty hunter as while I love PvP, I generally dislike targeting those unable to fight back. So my targets tend to be those looking for a fight themselves and it works out quite well for me to be going after pirates/bandits/pks/whatever while trying to protect a specific area. I'd be quite happy to fight for the peace that PvE people want to have in their lands but I need a living world to do such a thing. But what kind of world has such systems that actually work currently?
These two get it. I am all for PvP - but it has to be done right and for the right reasons. I've mostly played nothing but PvP type MMO's through the years - and few games got it right. The biggest problem with PvP in most of the games is the game is designed around zerging and it's all done on pre-made set in stone artificial battlefields. I'd rather see a game where your actions have consequences. That includes your actions in the PvE world as well. You keep attacking a village of orcs and they begin to hate you...eventually you can find a bounty on your head - which players friendly with the orcs can claim. Same for players that kill other players. Your reputation follows you...if you kill constantly and steal from others the PvE part of the game marks you as a bandit. You'll be attacked in towns by guards relentlessly. On top of that you'll have a bounty placed on you - which another player/players can claim.
I've personally stopped participating in PvP in MMO's after leaving WoW. It is shallow and pointless. ESO has PvP - but I am not doing any of it. I'm playing it strictly for the PvE aspect. It's the first MMORPG I've ever done this with. I really wish Bethesda would open the PvP lands and give us a PvE version. Seems like such a waste to have so much of the game used for one purpose that few people use. My friend says she goes through Cyrodiil all the time and rarely sees anyone. So I have to wonder how many ESO players even care for PvP.
Can you actually show an example because I've never seen a game that had pvp that didn't say that it existed. Not a one.
Sure. Sovrath
Just look at: Black Desert Online.
Opening Page. Notice, No mention of any PvP. Game Overview Page, Again.. no mention of PvP. They tell me all about their classes, immersive world, and all this jazz.. but.. don't mention that I am gonna get killed by other players, regardless if I like that idea or not.
maybe.. it's under combat... ?
Well I watched the video.. I see some epic fights, even fighting on horse back, but it all looks like NPC mobs, and.. yup.. No mention of PvP.
Ok.. so lets see.. I looked at their main page, where they sell me on their game.. and.. Nope.. no mention of PvP.
Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
It's one click away under the warfare tab. One click. The very first sentence is "There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert."
So you're wrong. He called you on it and you have no answer. You don't get to pick and choose whether you like the name of the page or tab. You don't get to move the goal posts by saying it's not on the front page.
Did I mention you're wrong and owned you every which way til next Tuesday. Don't embarrass yourself any longer by trying to back pedal your way out of it.
Did you read my post?
Did you notice that I mentioned the "Warfare" tab?
Did you Notice that I explained that it talks about "Node Wars" with no mention of Open World PvP.
In fact, I challenge you to show me on their main site where it says it's an Open World PvP game, and then tell me the links you clicked to get there.
Yea GW2 has issues. The players have issues. They know they are bleeding players yet they still allow PVEers to troll and trash PVP servers with PVE giving in their two-cents about what PVP'ing is about and what kind of person PVP's. I left GW2 after 3 tickets were closed on a big guild on a PVE server who would in large numbers roll to us to troll us for an hour then log out.
PSST: Oh and as soon as PVP ques hit 1 hour on a game I start thinking of moving on...that full 60 minute thing sends off a flag I can't put down lol.
Well, you don't play GW2, anyone that did, would know there are no PvE servers in GW2.
Can you actually show an example because I've never seen a game that had pvp that didn't say that it existed. Not a one.
Sure. Sovrath
Just look at: Black Desert Online.
Opening Page. Notice, No mention of any PvP. Game Overview Page, Again.. no mention of PvP. They tell me all about their classes, immersive world, and all this jazz.. but.. don't mention that I am gonna get killed by other players, regardless if I like that idea or not.
maybe.. it's under combat... ?
Well I watched the video.. I see some epic fights, even fighting on horse back, but it all looks like NPC mobs, and.. yup.. No mention of PvP.
Ok.. so lets see.. I looked at their main page, where they sell me on their game.. and.. Nope.. no mention of PvP.
Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
It's one click away under the warfare tab. One click. The very first sentence is "There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert."
So you're wrong. He called you on it and you have no answer. You don't get to pick and choose whether you like the name of the page or tab. You don't get to move the goal posts by saying it's not on the front page.
Did I mention you're wrong and owned you every which way til next Tuesday. Don't embarrass yourself any longer by trying to back pedal your way out of it.
Did you read my post?
Did you notice that I mentioned the "Warfare" tab?
Did you Notice that I explained that it talks about "Node Wars" with no mention of Open World PvP.
In fact, I challenge you to show me on their main site where it says it's an Open World PvP game, and then tell me the links you clicked to get there.
I'm not obligated to justify anything to you. Sovrath's original point was that every pvp mmo states it on their site. There aren't rules about where it's at, what the page is called, what modifiers have been used to describe it, just that it was stated on their site.
You're still wrong. Moving the goalposts just shows how ridiculous your point is.
Well, sadly, it seems you have not played MMO's like, GW2, or even Black Gold, where the PvP is totally optional, and not imposed in any manner, even if GW2, has 2 modes of PvP, with their WvW (RvR), and Arena battles, which is vastly different then something like.. Openworld PvP.
So, if all you want to cling to is the mention of PvP, with no explanation of how it is implemented, or affects the game world, then you would be right.."PvP is Mentioned"... however.. not making it clear that the game is an Open-world PvP game, is no less a douche move.. and the people that support such deception.. well.. jackass in my book.
The only MMORPGwPvP game I've ever played that had meaningful PvP based on a PvE world and that really worked was the Darktide server of Asheron's Call. Shortly after the launch two camps formed. There were those who wanted to be able to fight whoever and whenever they wanted because the game allowed it. They attacked people randomly and were labeled RPKs. The other camp became the Anti-RPKs or Antis for short. That group did not believe in camping the spawn point in the starter village and mercilessly killing L1s who were logging in for the first time. Over time a neutral faction developed as well.
These factions were not established by the game but rather by the behavior of the players. The Antis thought they were the good guys and that the RPKs were evil murderers. The RPKs thought their freedom to play the way they want was challenged and thought the Antis were like the evil government.
This was a PvE game being played on a server where PvP was enabled. All of the pve constructs existed like levelling, reagents for spells, gear, questing, obviously mobs, etc.
That player created faction based "war" lasted for years, across many game updates with guilds coming and going.
I didn't start playing AC on DT. I started on a PvE server, Harvestgain and decided to try it out. I still remember to this day my first gaming session. It took me 13 tries to spawn in and get into the woods away from the guy who was camping the drop. He was L18. That guy became my nemesis and I went after him every time I learned where he was.
So while some PvPers want PvErs to play PvP with them because they believe they need more easy targets, others recognise as previously stated in this thread, that both need to exist to fill the world, another reason is because just maybe that PvE guy has never really given it a fair shot and maybe he will enjoy it like I did.
Look how many people play MOBAs and FPS. You find many PvE MMORPG players enjoy those other genres as well. I think many MMORPG PvE players would enjoy PvP in their MMORPG if it was done right. There are a few new titles being designed from the ground up with PvE and PvP as integral to their gaming systems. I'm hoping that AC DT won't be my last really good MMORPGwPvP experience.
What every dev/pub should stand behind: "We're committed to creating a fair playing field for all players. You cannot gain gameplay advantage by spending real money in [INSERT GAME NAME]."
The best MMOrpgs I've ever played put their primary focus on PvE, in that their intention was on creating interesting worlds and mechanics to develop character identity and make players engaged in the universe. PvP comes afterwards, and this is coming from a diehard PvPer. Creating an interesting world is important to making the PvP feel relevant, otherwise why have PvP in an MMOrpg at all.
If you don't have that you basically just have a MOBA or lobby based PvP game. I think a healthy MMO is one that makes PvPers and PvEr's feel significant simultaneously.
Basically this.
I'd label myself as a hardcore PvPer doing all the crazy PvP games like EVE, Planetside1/2, Shadowbane, UO, etc, etc. Though I've played just as many PvE only games that I've enjoyed.
In the end I think it's the RPG part of MMORPG that is most important and I feel something close to living and breathing worlds are the best implementation of this we can hope for at this point.
For this you need both sides of the coin. What kind of lore/world has something that prevents the guy that doesn't have from taking from the guy that does? If resources are supposed to be rare and or you manage across something others would covet, then for the world to seem somewhat real they need to be able to take their chances at coming after you for it. Same for if you do obnoxious stuff and or put someone else at risk, they should have the option of attacking you for it.
Pure PvE worlds are /fake/ in that they put this magical restriction that forces 99% of the worlds population to play nice with each others. There is little real about a world that can't interact in most ways it would interact if it were real.
On the other hand pure PvP games are /fake/ in a different way. They tend to be mere death-matches with meaningless objectives or land that you can claim as you own but not really make much use of other than putting up your house and to have another reason to fight. Why is my character so willing to fight and die over something so trivial?
No I don't want to mindlessly gank someone weaker than me, there is no point. In games like WoW where there was little reason to PvP other than the excitement of PvP itself I wouldn't target anything of less than equal level. On the other hand if you have a caravan of expensive resources running through my territory and I'm a bandit, you better expect that I will be coming for you and you hopefully were smart enough to have someone that can protect your investment and or be able to protect it yourself.
A living breathing world needs both conflict and cooperation and leaving all conflict up to NPC mobs and or all cooperation up to NPC mobs makes both worlds fake and mechanical.
My ideal world is where I could be something like law enforcement or bounty hunter as while I love PvP, I generally dislike targeting those unable to fight back. So my targets tend to be those looking for a fight themselves and it works out quite well for me to be going after pirates/bandits/pks/whatever while trying to protect a specific area. I'd be quite happy to fight for the peace that PvE people want to have in their lands but I need a living world to do such a thing. But what kind of world has such systems that actually work currently?
The only MMORPGwPvP game I've ever played that had meaningful PvP based on a PvE world and that really worked was the Darktide server of Asheron's Call. Shortly after the launch two camps formed. There were those who wanted to be able to fight whoever and whenever they wanted because the game allowed it. They attacked people randomly and were labeled RPKs. The other camp became the Anti-RPKs or Antis for short. That group did not believe in camping the spawn point in the starter village and mercilessly killing L1s who were logging in for the first time. Over time a neutral faction developed as well.
These factions were not established by the game but rather by the behavior of the players. The Antis thought they were the good guys and that the RPKs were evil murderers. The RPKs thought their freedom to play the way they want was challenged and thought the Antis were like the evil government.
This was a PvE game being played on a server where PvP was enabled. All of the pve constructs existed like levelling, reagents for spells, gear, questing, obviously mobs, etc.
That player created faction based "war" lasted for years, across many game updates with guilds coming and going.
I didn't start playing AC on DT. I started on a PvE server, Harvestgain and decided to try it out. I still remember to this day my first gaming session. It took me 13 tries to spawn in and get into the woods away from the guy who was camping the drop. He was L18. That guy became my nemesis and I went after him every time I learned where he was.
So while some PvPers want PvErs to play PvP with them because they believe they need more easy targets, others recognise as previously stated in this thread, that both need to exist to fill the world, another reason is because just maybe that PvE guy has never really given it a fair shot and maybe he will enjoy it like I did.
Look how many people play MOBAs and FPS. You find many PvE MMORPG players enjoy those other genres as well. I think many MMORPG PvE players would enjoy PvP in their MMORPG if it was done right. There are a few new titles being designed from the ground up with PvE and PvP as integral to their gaming systems. I'm hoping that AC DT won't be my last really good MMORPGwPvP experience.
I see what you are saying, and I will agree, PvE players do like MOBA's, for the same reasons they hate PvP MMO's.
In an MOBA, the PvP is fair, it's up front what is going on, you don't get attacked while doing 'other' activities, like, I can play with load outs, and sit at the launch screen, in total safety, and then load in and fight. There is an honest, fair, feeling to the fights in an MOBA.
There is none of that in a PvP MMO.
Now, some MMO's, like for example, GW2, with it's World vs World, has that same feeling of fairness to it, you go into that area knowing this is a battle ground, that this is PvP. And even then they have some safe spots, like where you load in, is safe, you can bank, craft even, buy what you need, and then head off to the battle front.
The main thing that PvP players fail to realize is that PvE players do not have any need for PvP in their gaming experience. As you so squarely put it, if they wanted to play PvP, they would play MOBA's, hence the massive success of MOBA's. vs limping along of PvP MMO's.
Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert. There are two major events where all players and all guilds can participate: the Node War and Siege War. Any guild with at least 10 members online can join the warfare. The two keywords to succeed in the warfare are teamwork and strategy!
And then you just ask on a forum whether or not there is open pvp.
This is what I'm talking about, players not making the smallest leap and asking one pertinent question.
They are not hiding anything. It's only because you require them to hit you in the face with it that you think they are not being up front.
I should also point out that life skilling can be an important way to make money and without it a player can fall behind. They don't come out and say that either.
Basically you dislike one aspect and expect a game to know there are people who "dislike it" and therefore they should have a large sign saying "Attention: if you hate open world pvp don't play this game".
No game is going to do that.
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Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert. There are two major events where all players and all guilds can participate: the Node War and Siege War. Any guild with at least 10 members online can join the warfare. The two keywords to succeed in the warfare are teamwork and strategy!
And then you just ask on a forum whether or not there is open pvp.
This is what I'm talking about, players not making the smallest leap and asking one pertinent question.
They are not hiding anything. It's only because you require them to hit you in the face with it that you think they are not being up front.
I should also point out that life skilling can be an important way to make money and without it a player can fall behind. They don't come out and say that either.
Basically you dislike one aspect and expect a game to know there are people who "dislike it" and therefore they should have a large sign saying "Attention: if you hate open world pvp don't play this game".
No game is going to do that.
I'm gonna openly admit, that had by far to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this topic so far.
"Being Up front" means.. get this, Being Upfront About it.. it's not a hard concept to grasp.
And yah.. they should have a large sign that says "Open World PvP" that way, everyone that does not like Open World PvP can pass on that game, right from the start.
What a novel Idea.. telling players what is in your game.
Siege war and node wars to me sounds more like specific territories to fight over. Not open world PvP.
Edit - or guild based but still it doesn't tell me open world or ffa.(I don't know know if it is it not, never played, so just going by what you guys are saying)
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert. There are two major events where all players and all guilds can participate: the Node War and Siege War. Any guild with at least 10 members online can join the warfare. The two keywords to succeed in the warfare are teamwork and strategy!
And then you just ask on a forum whether or not there is open pvp.
Why would he need to go to the forums? The Warfare page is pretty clear in informing him that the PvP is guild-based and opt-in. Unless the player joins a PvP guild, he will not be affected by PvP.
I'm what you could call a carebear. I've played PvP games and liked them...my second most played MMO is Dark Age of Camelot and also played Warhammer Online from launch to close, for their RvRvR. The problem most PvP games get completely wrong, imo, is why there is PvP. Almost all PvP games put players against each other just to put players against each other. There's really no point other than to climb a ladder or to get better gear. The games I mentioned above actually had a reason to go PvP larger than just a single player. Most PvP games seem to think that if you want to PvP that you are selfish and only care about yourself, your gear, your ladder ranking, etc. I will happily PvP, if it makes a difference in the world or helps others. Until then, I'll just stick to changing the world by PvE.
Even if you guy are 100% right, and BDO wronged you horribly (perhaps by not sending you an email with a detailed description of what PvP was all about in their game), what do you hope to accomplish by complaining about it? Is this going to change mmorpgs for the better in the future? Will some wondrous improvement, advancement, or innovation be born from it?
He's using it so an example of the misleading information that some websites reportedly give. He stated what he wants which is for them to be up front.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I'm gonna openly admit, that had by far to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this topic so far.
"Being Up front" means.. get this, Being Upfront About it.. it's not a hard concept to grasp.
And yah.. they should have a large sign that says "Open World PvP" that way, everyone that does not like Open World PvP can pass on that game, right from the start.
What a novel Idea.. telling players what is in your game.
But they are up front in that they talk about pvp, and quite frankly go quite in depth on that warfare page.
The issue here is that you see it as "an issue". They just made a game with a variety of activities but you have an issue with one specific activity and see it as some sort of lie of omission that they don't address your concern. You want to openly admit that my post was dumb? I'll openly admit that you sound like a victim. Someone who can't take the smallest responsibility to get the fine details of a game.
Reading further on that page I see this:
11. Participants in the Node and Conquest War can attack anyone anyone anywhere except in all Safety Zones.
That to me would be a red flag and make me want to pursue questions related to pvp.
As I've said, they touch upon a lot of things on their page but they don't go into amazing detail about certain things. For instance, they don't go into detail about their grueling enchant system. But it's there. Taking time, asking a few questions, especially because there are statements on their site that might raise red flags to someone like you, would save the player a lot of hassle.
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Only the most uninformed of casual impulse buyers could ever go into BDO not knowing that it's an open world PVP game. Besides, they give you an "out" with the "level 49 forever" option, which is much more than other OWPVP games give you.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert. There are two major events where all players and all guilds can participate: the Node War and Siege War. Any guild with at least 10 members online can join the warfare. The two keywords to succeed in the warfare are teamwork and strategy!
And then you just ask on a forum whether or not there is open pvp.
Why would he need to go to the forums? The Warfare page is pretty clear in informing him that the PvP is guild-based and opt-in. Unless the player joins a PvP guild, he will not be affected by PvP.
Because it's not well written. They touch upon open pvp but they are not as specific as he would like. This would be a red flag to me and I would want to get specifics before I purchased a game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I understand. It's just that I've never faced this problem myself. If I don't like something after I start playing, I stop. I don't care how new it is or how good the graphics are. And I won't buy an mmorpg or pay for a subscription before trying it. If they don't have a free trial, oh well, guess they don't want my business.
He's using it so an example of the misleading information that some websites reportedly give. He stated what he wants which is for them to be up front.
My opinion is that it's not misleading as they don't really hide anything. They do talk about it but not from a perspective where open pvp is horrid and therefore they need to warn people. They just mention it here and there. It's poorly written, that's all as they concentrate on the open pvp during node wars.
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EDIT: Now if some snowflake reports me for this, I guess you still have to wake up tomorrow living your life. I'm not trying to troll here but if you ever cast a light in the pve'ers/rp'ers direction after proclaiming to be a PVP'er, they'll call you the devil and report you into obscurity.
EDIT2: Then you see them in life and point and laugh. :P
I have a level 12 sitting on GW2. As an experienced PvE player, the combat was nothing all that special or new to me, even with some of the gimmicks they threw in that I hadn't seen before. So I got bored and refuse to play it again. The World vs. World stuff doesn't sound interesting, meaningful, or significant enough to me to elicit a desire for getting max level in that game. I've played many RTS and turn-based strategy war games in the past, and I am a student of actual military history (and all other forms of history). I know what real war is supposed to be like. If an MMORPG PvP game is nothing like real war, it doesn't interest me.
PSST: Oh and as soon as PVP ques hit 1 hour on a game I start thinking of moving on...that full 60 minute thing sends off a flag I can't put down lol.
These two get it. I am all for PvP - but it has to be done right and for the right reasons. I've mostly played nothing but PvP type MMO's through the years - and few games got it right. The biggest problem with PvP in most of the games is the game is designed around zerging and it's all done on pre-made set in stone artificial battlefields. I'd rather see a game where your actions have consequences. That includes your actions in the PvE world as well. You keep attacking a village of orcs and they begin to hate you...eventually you can find a bounty on your head - which players friendly with the orcs can claim. Same for players that kill other players. Your reputation follows you...if you kill constantly and steal from others the PvE part of the game marks you as a bandit. You'll be attacked in towns by guards relentlessly. On top of that you'll have a bounty placed on you - which another player/players can claim.
I've personally stopped participating in PvP in MMO's after leaving WoW. It is shallow and pointless. ESO has PvP - but I am not doing any of it. I'm playing it strictly for the PvE aspect. It's the first MMORPG I've ever done this with. I really wish Bethesda would open the PvP lands and give us a PvE version. Seems like such a waste to have so much of the game used for one purpose that few people use. My friend says she goes through Cyrodiil all the time and rarely sees anyone. So I have to wonder how many ESO players even care for PvP.
Did you read my post?
Did you notice that I mentioned the "Warfare" tab?
Did you Notice that I explained that it talks about "Node Wars" with no mention of Open World PvP.
In fact, I challenge you to show me on their main site where it says it's an Open World PvP game, and then tell me the links you clicked to get there.
Well, you don't play GW2, anyone that did, would know there are no PvE servers in GW2.
Well, sadly, it seems you have not played MMO's like, GW2, or even Black Gold, where the PvP is totally optional, and not imposed in any manner, even if GW2, has 2 modes of PvP, with their WvW (RvR), and Arena battles, which is vastly different then something like.. Openworld PvP.
So, if all you want to cling to is the mention of PvP, with no explanation of how it is implemented, or affects the game world, then you would be right.."PvP is Mentioned"... however.. not making it clear that the game is an Open-world PvP game, is no less a douche move.. and the people that support such deception.. well.. jackass in my book.
These factions were not established by the game but rather by the behavior of the players. The Antis thought they were the good guys and that the RPKs were evil murderers. The RPKs thought their freedom to play the way they want was challenged and thought the Antis were like the evil government.
This was a PvE game being played on a server where PvP was enabled. All of the pve constructs existed like levelling, reagents for spells, gear, questing, obviously mobs, etc.
That player created faction based "war" lasted for years, across many game updates with guilds coming and going.
I didn't start playing AC on DT. I started on a PvE server, Harvestgain and decided to try it out. I still remember to this day my first gaming session. It took me 13 tries to spawn in and get into the woods away from the guy who was camping the drop. He was L18. That guy became my nemesis and I went after him every time I learned where he was.
So while some PvPers want PvErs to play PvP with them because they believe they need more easy targets, others recognise as previously stated in this thread, that both need to exist to fill the world, another reason is because just maybe that PvE guy has never really given it a fair shot and maybe he will enjoy it like I did.
Look how many people play MOBAs and FPS. You find many PvE MMORPG players enjoy those other genres as well. I think many MMORPG PvE players would enjoy PvP in their MMORPG if it was done right. There are a few new titles being designed from the ground up with PvE and PvP as integral to their gaming systems. I'm hoping that AC DT won't be my last really good MMORPGwPvP experience.
I see what you are saying, and I will agree, PvE players do like MOBA's, for the same reasons they hate PvP MMO's.
In an MOBA, the PvP is fair, it's up front what is going on, you don't get attacked while doing 'other' activities, like, I can play with load outs, and sit at the launch screen, in total safety, and then load in and fight. There is an honest, fair, feeling to the fights in an MOBA.
There is none of that in a PvP MMO.
Now, some MMO's, like for example, GW2, with it's World vs World, has that same feeling of fairness to it, you go into that area knowing this is a battle ground, that this is PvP. And even then they have some safe spots, like where you load in, is safe, you can bank, craft even, buy what you need, and then head off to the battle front.
The main thing that PvP players fail to realize is that PvE players do not have any need for PvP in their gaming experience. As you so squarely put it, if they wanted to play PvP, they would play MOBA's, hence the massive success of MOBA's. vs limping along of PvP MMO's.
yeah sorry this is you.
I "just" went there and in 10 seconds found it.
10 seconds.
https://www.blackdesertonline.com/game/warfare/
Warfare for Dummies
There is a variety of PvP content in Black Desert. There are two major events where all players
and all guilds can participate: the Node War and Siege War.
Any guild with at least 10 members online can join the warfare.
The two keywords to succeed in the warfare are teamwork and strategy!
And then you just ask on a forum whether or not there is open pvp.
This is what I'm talking about, players not making the smallest leap and asking one pertinent question.
They are not hiding anything. It's only because you require them to hit you in the face with it that you think they are not being up front.
I should also point out that life skilling can be an important way to make money and without it a player can fall behind. They don't come out and say that either.
Basically you dislike one aspect and expect a game to know there are people who "dislike it" and therefore they should have a large sign saying "Attention: if you hate open world pvp don't play this game".
No game is going to do that.
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I'm gonna openly admit, that had by far to be the dumbest post I have ever read on this topic so far.
"Being Up front" means.. get this, Being Upfront About it.. it's not a hard concept to grasp.
And yah.. they should have a large sign that says "Open World PvP" that way, everyone that does not like Open World PvP can pass on that game, right from the start.
What a novel Idea.. telling players what is in your game.
Edit - or guild based but still it doesn't tell me open world or ffa.(I don't know know if it is it not, never played, so just going by what you guys are saying)
Why would he need to go to the forums? The Warfare page is pretty clear in informing him that the PvP is guild-based and opt-in. Unless the player joins a PvP guild, he will not be affected by PvP.
But they are up front in that they talk about pvp, and quite frankly go quite in depth on that warfare page.
The issue here is that you see it as "an issue". They just made a game with a variety of activities but you have an issue with one specific activity and see it as some sort of lie of omission that they don't address your concern. You want to openly admit that my post was dumb? I'll openly admit that you sound like a victim. Someone who can't take the smallest responsibility to get the fine details of a game.
Reading further on that page I see this:
11. Participants in the Node and Conquest War can attack anyone anyone anywhere except in all Safety Zones.
That to me would be a red flag and make me want to pursue questions related to pvp.
As I've said, they touch upon a lot of things on their page but they don't go into amazing detail about certain things. For instance, they don't go into detail about their grueling enchant system. But it's there. Taking time, asking a few questions, especially because there are statements on their site that might raise red flags to someone like you, would save the player a lot of hassle.
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Because it's not well written. They touch upon open pvp but they are not as specific as he would like. This would be a red flag to me and I would want to get specifics before I purchased a game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My opinion is that it's not misleading as they don't really hide anything. They do talk about it but not from a perspective where open pvp is horrid and therefore they need to warn people. They just mention it here and there. It's poorly written, that's all as they concentrate on the open pvp during node wars.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo