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How many of these discussions have resulted in real change?
Consuetudo
Member UncommonPosts: 191
For years and years now we have explored MMOs to the point of philosophical abstraction, reaching the point where we are asking such basic questions as "why do we play games?" If anyone should be considered Doctors of Philosophy in MMOs it is these people here who mull over the concept endlessly, considering every possible iteration in which an MMO can be delivered.
And yet how many of it has been implemented? Ever since the failures of Conan and Warhammer, many years ago, we have been mentally designing the next best thing, and in my opinion nothing has changed. The expectations that we seasoned MMO veterans have developed through these profitable discussions has not resulted in lasting change. Or am I wrong? Has there been anything that we can objectively consider "next gen?" I still, miserably, log into WoW every once in a while since everything else seems a repackage of that game.
And yet how many of it has been implemented? Ever since the failures of Conan and Warhammer, many years ago, we have been mentally designing the next best thing, and in my opinion nothing has changed. The expectations that we seasoned MMO veterans have developed through these profitable discussions has not resulted in lasting change. Or am I wrong? Has there been anything that we can objectively consider "next gen?" I still, miserably, log into WoW every once in a while since everything else seems a repackage of that game.
Comments
We're social creatures. The internet is like a meeting place. It's no surprise some groups of people (or players) like ot post in forums.
Your small and to you invisible idea becomes a factor in one form or another, if a dev happen to collide on the same forum as you on a random given day.
Ideas I made years ago I have later seen come to life. Was it because I came up with the idea, maybe, maybe not, maybe I just got the ideas at the same time that others came up with the same idea as well. They, like myself, aired them some place, where they were seen by those who have it in their power to make or influence game designs.
A lot of ideas seems to come about in a lot of people at the same time, when they happen.
Seems it is rarely just one person who get an idea all solo, our collective hive produce these ideas in waves and when these waves happens, somebody will ponder about them and turn them into reality in one form or another.
So Id say yes, we change the MMORPG scene all the time.
What is worth noting though is, that while we fall into individual processes common to most lives, a lot of veterans will reach a point where they come up with ideas they will never take part of themselves. Not because they are good or bad ideas, but simply because there comes a point where a lot of us are parting with the gaming world, but unable to realise that and unable to accept it, so we keep adding ideas in hopes we find something that will make us stay.
Your idea will happen in one form or another, so just keep chipping in.
Find a game you like and play it. Its been that way since the start and will never change.
If you can not find a game you like then that is a personal problem.
Well, except to try and get gdemami to admit he's wrong about something.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Devs claim they listen,they claim they do ponder about threads from time to time but in the end,they know what they want to spend,basically how long and that's it.Along the ride they will claim they are implementing what players want but how would we know,just because they say so?
Even these KS'rs and so called stretch goals,how do we know anyone asked for the goals,how do we know they are not just fabricated by the developer to get further funding?
We really don't know anything that goes on behind closed doors of developers,other than they are working among themselves,figuring out ways to monetize and get money from us.
How often do we now see games showing up on websites being endorsed before they even remotely have a product?Like almost always?
So in reality we are not going to change anything but we can show our displeasure and not let businesses run rampant trying to stretch the law in favor of greed for money.
I USED to be very naive and think gaming sites were there because the owner has a love/passion for gaming and wanted to try and better the industry but then i realized NOBODY cares,it is all about who can make money and who can we deceive to make even more money.
Hopefully the law will continue to be more restrictive on how businesses operate and hopefully developers are forced to make good FINISHED games before taking anyone's money.it might take years or may never happen,it might get even worse,who knows only time will tell.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The larger studios don't have to do anything of the sort. They make 99% of their decisions internally and based on high dollar market research that "shows players want more 'x' and less of 'y'".
I think that the primary value in forums like these is discussion of the genre, and games outside of the genre, that can help people make up their minds on whether they want to invest their time in a game or not.
For instance, the prevailing "wisdom" on the interwebz about EVE Online is that it's a game with 50,000 psychopathic, narcissistic monsters. The reality is quite the opposite, with a few exceptions, that gets blown way out proportion. But if you don't come to a place like this and listen to the viewpoints of insiders, then you'd never know otherwise.
And the only way you are going to get chance is to jump into the developer pool and make those changes yourself.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The best thing we can do now is actually go consider what originally made massively multiplayer online RPGs appealing to begin with. Then, using that foundation, apply and develop innovation that's compatible.
They operate based on a totally different set of values, motivations and goals.
The only way to change it is to take the money out of the equation, which means put 50 million of non-investor money on the table and hire a team to implement the forum conclusions you like.
If your specific combination proves to be successful, investors will see it as less risky and will more likely pay for such projects in future.
WoW managed to turn the genre on it's head, you can too. You just have to land a supermassive hit.
The ONLY reason there is discussions is because of forums and the ONLY reason we have forums is because people make websites to make money,gaming passion is second fiddle to making money.
I have hardly ever seen a quality You Tuber talking about games either,they are yet again just trying to make money.Then we have streamers,what an epidemic of people out there trying to make money.
The purpose/reason for gaming was suppose to be FUN and see some passionate game designers but all the entire industry really is a bunch of people trying to make money.
So we should NEVER be surprised by half assed efforts all over the industry.
I can use one small example..Project Gorgon,by no means a triple A game,however Eric is not making loads of money if any at all,so there has to be a bit of passion so he deserves some credit.Even the great john Carmack,i believe was more out to PROVE himself than be a passionate game designer.I do feel there are some passionate designers spattered about the industry,the old Tanaka from Square is another and the Naughty Dog team as well but not nearly enough to make this industry great,it is just a business.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Spending time developing a project is like carrying a child in the womb, it takes months/years, its a time filled with doubts, passion, love, frustration, stress, second thoughts and in this emotional chaos they have to focus on the current reality of all things. Employees that have to get paid, technical equipment have to be kept up and running perfectly, rent has to be paid, insurance has to be made, have to remember to eat and drink, and everybody involved somehow have to try and make room in it all for a family and RL in general.
Games depend on you, you lot and some of you believe you are so insignificant in this whole process.
Of course I can not deny that some creators purely focus on making easy money. Copycats of all sorts spots an easy path to make you pay money, but not all developers are that kind of human beings, feeding on your wallet and addiction.
A lot of game designers are just creators, artists, people with a vision, dreams, just like yourself.
They are no different from you, their advantage just is, that they keep faith and optimism and put up a fight to keep believing they can make a difference and they manage to gather friends around them who supports their ideas.
That is the only difference between you and those who rise to make these projects.
They do not consider themselves or you insignificant, if they did nothing would work, nothing would be created.
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