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60s Crooner 'Dion' Suing Zenimax Over 'The Wanderer' - Fallout 4 - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129

image60s Crooner 'Dion' Suing Zenimax Over 'The Wanderer' - Fallout 4 - MMORPG.com

Fallout 4 News - 60s singer Dion is taking Zenimax Media to court over its use of "The Wanderer" in a Fallout 4 promotion. He is seeking $1M from the company calling the use of his signature song for the game "repugnant" and that the ads "featured repeated homicides in a dark, dystopian landscape, where violence is glorified as sport".

Read the full story here



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Comments

  • ghettocelebghettoceleb Member UncommonPosts: 104
    I like the song, and he should get payed for his music use, but the game isn't all bad and REPUGNANT.
    rodingoArskaaa
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    I like the song, and he should get payed for his music use, but the game isn't all bad and REPUGNANT.
    From what I read, he did get paid for it. It is more that they didn't get his approval for the ads they used the song in before they went live with them. On the one hand, they should have. On the other hand, he should have done his homework about the game before signing the initial contract.
    Yoofaloof[Deleted User]ghettocelebBruceYeemgilbrtsnConstantineMerusOzmodanHatefullArskaaa


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • YoofaloofYoofaloof Member UncommonPosts: 217
    They should counter sue for his choice in headwear.
    SBFordghettocelebrodingolaxieSaltyDog79LackingMMOConstantineMeruserror_404QuicksandSiugand 4 others.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,556
    SBFord said:
    I like the song, and he should get payed for his music use, but the game isn't all bad and REPUGNANT.
    From what I read, he did get paid for it. It is more that they didn't get his approval for the ads they used the song in before they went live with them. On the one hand, they should have. On the other hand, he should have done his homework about the game before signing the initial contract.
    He was too high on the sticky icky.
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,122
    Could anyone explain this to me?

    The musician signed an agreement for Fallout to use his music. And then he complains they didn't double check with him later? It feels like there isn't much of a case here, unless his agreement stated Zenimax needs to show him the commercial before releasing?
    OzmodanQuicksand
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    edited July 2017
    laxie said:
    Could anyone explain this to me?

    The musician signed an agreement for Fallout to use his music. And then he complains they didn't double check with him later? It feels like there isn't much of a case here, unless his agreement stated Zenimax needs to show him the commercial before releasing?
    This is what was quoted at the original source, The Wrap (linked in the OP if you click to "read more here"):

    According to the suit, DiMucci entered an agreement via UMG Recordings to license the song for the “Fallout 4” commercials.

    However, the suit says, under the agreement DiMucci had the right to separately bargain with ZeniMax for a better rate, and to prohibit the use of the song unless his terms were met first. The suit says that ZeniMax failed to separately bargain with DiMucci, and failed to obtain his advance consent before the commercials ran.

    The consent portion is important, the lawsuit says, because the “Fallout 4” ads were “objectionable” due to their violence.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 439
    edited July 2017
    These artists push the marketing and licensing of their songs to third party publishers, such as ASCAP. This is how you have popular music in video games, playing in grocery stores, and even in political campaigns. The consumer selects one or more songs, then pay very high fees to play the songs in specific locations, specific works (game or movie), or at a specific event. Every now and then an artist pulls their head out of their asses and finds out they don't like a politician or that a video game made a bucket of money, and they announce a lawsuit.

    I say "announce a lawsuit" because it is all a publicity stunt. The defendant (game, movie, or politician) simply produces the license agreement signed with the third party, and it all goes away. I seriously doubt that any license agreement for the use of The Wanderer requires the licensee to first get permission from the artist. I mean, that is just stupid. If licensees had to first get permission from the artist, then why license through a third party? Why not just have all those wishing to license the song to come to the artist directly?

    Because that's not the way it works, and this guy's lawsuit is going nowhere.
    Post edited by BitterClinger on
    SBFordLucienReneFlyByKnight[Deleted User]SpottyGekko
  • frostymugfrostymug Member RarePosts: 645
    So he agreed to allow use without seeing what it was going to be used for and now he is suing for more money because he failed to do due diligence. I guess the money was good, but suing for more money is better.

    On the other hand, as far as immoral images go, the song is about being a manwhore.

    If I had a third hand, Zenimax sitting on the other side of the courtroom this time is just desserts.
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,122
    edited July 2017
    SBFord said:
    laxie said:
    Could anyone explain this to me?

    The musician signed an agreement for Fallout to use his music. And then he complains they didn't double check with him later? It feels like there isn't much of a case here, unless his agreement stated Zenimax needs to show him the commercial before releasing?
    This is what was quoted at the original source, The Wrap (linked in the OP if you click to "read more here"):

    According to the suit, DiMucci entered an agreement via UMG Recordings to license the song for the “Fallout 4” commercials.

    However, the suit says, under the agreement DiMucci had the right to separately bargain with ZeniMax for a better rate, and to prohibit the use of the song unless his terms were met first. The suit says that ZeniMax failed to separately bargain with DiMucci, and failed to obtain his advance consent before the commercials ran.

    The consent portion is important, the lawsuit says, because the “Fallout 4” ads were “objectionable” due to their violence.

    Ah. I need to learn to read better. :grin:

    Feels like someone at Zenimax forgot to follow up with the musician properly then. It's a scary world though - one person forgetting to double check with a guy leading to a $1M lawsuit.
    SBFord
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    I'm seeing 1% repugnance and 99% "moar moneys pleaz" for the 60's has-been singer... good song when put together with the add though.
    laxieSBFordBitterClingerLucienReneConstantineMerusCogohiCrazKanukHatefull[Deleted User]MrMelGibsonand 1 other.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,976
    and he most likely stole the song from someone else......
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    There is a reason why a good game development company should get "FULL Rights" or permissions for the music, sounds or stuff being used by artists in their games FULL Rights to use it in any games they create, this is something I do when I have a professional designer make something for me its full rights.
  • OnisDEOnisDE Member UncommonPosts: 47
    On the topic of plagiarism. Song had more lives than a cat. Ernie Maresca "wrote" and recorded the song before Dion. Dion must have bought the rights. Ernie Maresca was obviously "inspired" by Leiber and Stoller who wrote Kansas City.

    Ernie Maresca - The Wanderer


    Kansas City - Wilbert Harrison


    Song just won't die.

    Dion - Ruby Baby

    SaltyDog79[Deleted User]sedatedkarmaMrMelGibsonDagon13
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    How to turn 15 minutes of fame into 16
    LucienReneSBFordHatefull[Deleted User]MrMelGibson
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Zenimax f#%ked up and skipped a very important step when dealing with licensing music directly from artists like this. He's going to win this case easily if it is proven that he wasn't provided a final version to OK.

    Artists ALWAYS require final approval of advertisements or charge absorbent fees to wave the right. I'd even go so far to say that entertainment lawyers put the stipulation in the paper work knowing some bozo is going to shortcut it and earn them some extra money.

    The artist shouldn't have had to see the video on TV to have issue with it. Had somebody done their job they would have a final sign-off from him OK'ing the final version and he'd be a dog howling at the moon.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967


    These artists push the marketing and licensing of their songs to third party publishers, such as ASCAP. This is how you have popular music in video games, playing in grocery stores, and even in political campaigns. The consumer selects one or more songs, then pay very high fees to play the songs in specific locations, specific works (game or movie), or at a specific event. Every now and then an artist pulls their head out of their asses and finds out they don't like a politician or that a video game made a bucket of money, and they announce a lawsuit.



    I say "announce a lawsuit" because it is all a publicity stunt. The defendant (game, movie, or politician) simply produces the license agreement signed with the third party, and it all goes away. I seriously doubt that any license agreement for the use of The Wanderer requires the licensee to first get permission from the artist. I mean, that is just stupid. If licensees had to first get permission from the artist, then why license through a third party? Why not just have all those wishing to license the song to come to the artist directly?



    Because that's not the way it works, and this guy's lawsuit is going nowhere.



    ASCAP doesn't license, they collect royalties.

    Publishing companies handle the licensing and placement and it isn't some "nobody gets to approve anything" situation either. It's standard business.

    Many times writers/composers have their own publishing companies or sell a portion of their publishing rights for advances. Artists are artists and they typically don't want their music misrepresented regardless. In THIS case this is a basic f#%k up on Zenimaxs part, and the publishing companies legal team is just adding extra language for dramatic effect. It's like forgetting a line item on an artists rider sheet. Something as little as not removing black jelly beans from a bowl can end up in the forfeiture of money. Legal will say the black jelly beans "caused irreparable emotional trauma" which sounds silly but doesn't change the fact the agreement is in black and white.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SagethornSagethorn Member UncommonPosts: 57
    SBFord said:
    laxie said:
    Could anyone explain this to me?

    The musician signed an agreement for Fallout to use his music. And then he complains they didn't double check with him later? It feels like there isn't much of a case here, unless his agreement stated Zenimax needs to show him the commercial before releasing?
    This is what was quoted at the original source, The Wrap (linked in the OP if you click to "read more here"):

    According to the suit, DiMucci entered an agreement via UMG Recordings to license the song for the “Fallout 4” commercials.

    However, the suit says, under the agreement DiMucci had the right to separately bargain with ZeniMax for a better rate, and to prohibit the use of the song unless his terms were met first. The suit says that ZeniMax failed to separately bargain with DiMucci, and failed to obtain his advance consent before the commercials ran.

    The consent portion is important, the lawsuit says, because the “Fallout 4” ads were “objectionable” due to their violence.

    Umm... this is for Fallout, of course there is violence in a post apocalyptic shooter. Maybe Dion should have looked into it before signing the rights for it to be used in the first place if it was morally objectionable for him.

    The fact that he gave them the rights to use it and is now having a hissy fit because they used it in a trailer that had violence in it is just mind boggling to me, especially after they told him the franchise it was being used in.

    In my opinion he just want a bigger payout and is scrapping for clauses.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited July 2017
    @Sagethorn It's not about the game, it's about the advertisement with the music bed. He doesn't have to research anything if they agreed to a review process which is normal. The game and the ad are 2 separate entities. This could have been avoided but the artist is not at fault here.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    DMKano said:
    Lawsuits - remember in the end there is only one party that benefits - the lawyers.

    True, but it is more than a little amusing that the ones on the wrong end of a lawsuit is Zenimax, given their propensity for using the things against others recently, one might even call it Karma :p
    HatefullsedatedkarmaMrMelGibson
  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,138
    why would they even use an original, just imitate it, and may be even make it sound better.

    Is music that difficult? You see people now with sound boards that music while walking down the street in a 5 min video. Literally taking them no time to make the music since they make it as they go.

    So to that end, this guy doesnt deserve a penny for some song which I am assuming is old as well.

    There comes a time when certain media just doesn't have the copy right to make money, and may be people should make another song like the 5 mins it takes other people to make. May be writing the lyris takes a while... thats about it.
    RexKushman

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • SagethornSagethorn Member UncommonPosts: 57
    @Sagethorn It's not about the game, it's about the advertisement with the music bed. He doesn't have to research anything if they agreed to a review process which is normal. The game and the ad are 2 separate entities. This could have been avoided but the artist is not at fault here.
    Maybe i just don't understand correctly, the suit that Dion's lawyers have put forward say that DiMucci had the right to bargain separately for a better rate and because the “Fallout 4” ads were “objectionable” due to their violence.

    Its a two way street with communication, if the clause said that he could bargain with them and he did not, why now is he pulling a lawsuit.

    Its like me selling a song to McDonalds saying they have the rights to use it and then having a stink because i find fast food "objectionable" because its not healthy. I clearly knew beforehand what the company was going to use it in, as they knew it was for Fallout 4.

    Sure Zenimax probably should have contacted Dion, but then again, they have paid for the rights to be able to use it, Dion had already gave them permission and would have received payment. He just wants a larger slice of cake now.

    Personally i'd side with Zenimax on this, if Dion was not happy then he should have done his homework on what his music was going to be used on before handing away the rights.

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    This is ridiculous. Fallout has always used these old classics in an ironic way. Ignorance of that is no excuse when giving rights to someone. He had absolutely every chance to know what it was being used for.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Member UncommonPosts: 439


    These artists push the marketing and licensing of their songs to third party publishers, such as ASCAP. This is how you have popular music in video games, playing in grocery stores, and even in political campaigns. The consumer selects one or more songs, then pay very high fees to play the songs in specific locations, specific works (game or movie), or at a specific event. Every now and then an artist pulls their head out of their asses and finds out they don't like a politician or that a video game made a bucket of money, and they announce a lawsuit.



    I say "announce a lawsuit" because it is all a publicity stunt. The defendant (game, movie, or politician) simply produces the license agreement signed with the third party, and it all goes away. I seriously doubt that any license agreement for the use of The Wanderer requires the licensee to first get permission from the artist. I mean, that is just stupid. If licensees had to first get permission from the artist, then why license through a third party? Why not just have all those wishing to license the song to come to the artist directly?



    Because that's not the way it works, and this guy's lawsuit is going nowhere.



    ASCAP doesn't license, they collect royalties.

    Publishing companies handle the licensing and placement and it isn't some "nobody gets to approve anything" situation either. It's standard business.


    ASCAP licenses music and distributes royalties. You can buy a license right from their website. The publishing company makes the deals with companies like ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. Do you really believe every publishing company makes separate deals with every grocery store, restaurant, and radio station?

    In fact, some venues are exclusive! Just like in a restaurant where you can have either Coke products OR Pepsi products, some venues (e.g. convention center) permit only ASCAP licensed playlists or BMI licensed playlists, but not both. Politicians, motivational speakers, and other types of businesses sometimes get in trouble because of this. They license music through BMI, then play that music at an ASCAP only venue.

    The only good argument in favor of the artist, that I have seen in this thread, is the possibility that Zenimax may not have obtained the proper licensing for both the game and the commercial.

    Other than that, the artist is hoping Zenimax settles just to avoid a more expensive court battle, which Zenimax would win.

    [Deleted User]
  • p4ttythep3rf3ctp4ttythep3rf3ct Member UncommonPosts: 194
    Sounds like he's just the kind of guy that will never settle down...
    BitterClingerHatefull[Deleted User]MrMelGibsongunklacker

    That's just, like, my opinion, man.

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    I remember this commercial when the game first came out. The Wanderer song definitely made the ad.
    ghettoceleb
    --------------------------------------------
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