This is a common complaint I see leveled both directions. People in games like WoW and Wurm where there is a focus on PvE or crafting claiming PvP is a wasted developer time and people in games like Crowfall where there is a PvP focus complaining any options for people to partake in content not revolving around killing other players is wasted.
PvP players pay monthly fees, buy cash shop items, and generally contribute to the success of a game.
PvE players pay monthly fees, buy cash shop items, and generally contribute to the success of a game.
If there is a large enough PvP/PvE community in any title to pay for the development of their own content then that development isn't "wasted".
No single crowd has a right to 100% of the developers time, and nobody has a right to the money other players with other content preferences spend on an MMO. The developers probably aren't "wasting" your sub fees on developing PvP content. The money they spend on it is in all likelihood covered by players who would not otherwise play without that content.
More features for a game covered by the players that use them is always a good thing. Just don't play games that force you to PvP if you don't want to.
I disagree, but possibly not in the way you expect. My opinion is that instead of two games which try to split their development effort to cater to both PvE and PvP players, I'd much rather have one game that's PvE only and one that's PvP only. I think that developers do waste their effort when they try to please everyone a little rather than focusing on pleasing one audience segment a lot. It's not about anyone having a right to anything, it's about developers with a clear target and vision.
MMOs are supposed to be broad by nature. They are massive virtual worlds. The time and effort that goes into developing a simple MMO is many times that of other games, and as players, one MMO is supposed to cover 90-100% of your gaming time for hopefully years at a time.
I often enjoy PvP. I also enjoy well done PvE, and crafting, and exploration, and social aspects etc. A game that does not cover all of these areas is not an MMO I will play for long.
So at least for me, if an MMO isn't broad then it fundamentally fails to meet the criteria I desire from an MMO.
No single MMO really meets all of my needs. They have parts I like playing and parts I don't so when I first started playing MMO's (around 2003) I stuck with one basically for years at a time because there weren't that many to choose from. Now I play different MMO's for the different aspects I like.
I still play them for years at a time but rotate through a few at a time. Some daily, some when they have a new DLC, class, or expansion, as well as playing RPG's regularly.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't think MMOs are supposed to be anything by nature, but that argument aside, MMOs are being made on proportionally smaller budgets these days, they're AA at most, not the AAA behemoths which shaped the early days of the genre. I don't think an AA game can afford to be broad, because there's no way they can divide their little pie into so many pieces and do them all well, particular taking into account that "done well" is relative to audience segment.
To be fair where the pre Wow games at best AA if even that, Wow had 5 times the budget of the top game before it (SWG $12M, Wow $60M) but the market is harder today so it is indeed hard to make everyone enjoy the same mid to low budget MMO.
It is not just the budget, if you focus on fewer similar groups of players you can customize the game and it's content to make the best experience possible for just those players and it is of course easier then to make a great experience for player so different as raiders and open world PvP fans.
Compare it with selling a CD that mixes different music genres, it is hard to sell an album with rap, black metal and classic music on it, you better have great exclusive songs on it or you will fail badly.
It is not just the budget, if you focus on fewer similar groups of players you can customize the game and it's content to make the best experience possible for just those players and it is of course easier then than to make a great experience for player so different as raiders and open world PvP fans.
Yes, exactly my point!
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I see focus as the starting point of an MMO. You do one thing exceptionally well to draw in your initial audience. An enduring MMO broadens out from that into many areas, building an an entire world their audience can live in and many aspects of gameplay they can enjoy as the game develops. If a game does one thing well then yeah, I'll play it for a month or two at most then add it to a rotation of MMOs I sift through. Ultimately I only stop on MMOs that give me a full experience though as it's missing aspects of the experience that often cause me to gravitate back to other MMOs.
If you look at some of the most enduring MMOs out there (Runescape and EVE are two of the only pre-WoW MMOs that are still relevant in today's market) you'll notice that they cover many areas, with many types of content. They offer a complete game experience within a single world. I don't think it's coincidence those two games have endured and that they both offer full experiences.
Despite the fact that grinding is literally my least favorite aspect of an MMO, one of the MMOs I find myself most commonly gravitating back to and playing for the longest times is ArcheAge. This is because it a social game with PvP, crafting, trade, and exploration. A full game experience with powerful social bonds that I only end up leaving when utter disgust with the progression systems wears thin on both myself and the entire social circles I form within the game.
Even though I like PvE, if the classes, combat, questing, skill system, are OK, I'll play it in open world PvP MMO's as I've done in the past.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
What do you really love about MMORPG? I love PvP, instanced with competition if possible. Nice fluid combat, it doesnt matter if it's action or tab-target. 2 of the best MMORPGs for me that i've played had opposite combat styles and i enjoyed the fok outta em. They just offered skill requiring fluid combat.
What do you like or tolerate? Like: PvE, Social aspect, Crafting, Open World to explore, Events, Moderate Grinding, Story Line Questing. These are good stuff most MMORPGs actually offer but many overlook this and are looking too hard on the stuff they hate in a MMORPG and end up not playing it. Tolerate: I can tolerate stuff like dailies n chores that most MMORPGs have nowadays and this is why i'm not one of the people who are qqing all the time they can't find good MMORPG. I tolerate many things, because my focus is on what i love and what are the MMORPGs i play strenghts/positive aspects.
What do you hate? I hate broken PvP. It can be broken, because of p2w, heavy disbalance in classes or low pop = not enough people PvPing = Long ques for PvP fights. It kills a game for me if what i love is bad. I hate lack of competition. Makes the game boring imo. I actually hate if a game forces me to do everything in a group with people. I hate old graphics, we're in 2k17 and i didn't buy good PC to play Runescapy crap. I hate dull combat. Basically if the combat is stiff n in a fight be it against PvE big monster or a player i can't have plays where i can dodge stuff n block stuff or ways to outplay my enemy it's just boring stiff combat then and the game sux.
Comments
I still play them for years at a time but rotate through a few at a time. Some daily, some when they have a new DLC, class, or expansion, as well as playing RPG's regularly.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It is not just the budget, if you focus on fewer similar groups of players you can customize the game and it's content to make the best experience possible for just those players and it is of course easier then to make a great experience for player so different as raiders and open world PvP fans.
Compare it with selling a CD that mixes different music genres, it is hard to sell an album with rap, black metal and classic music on it, you better have great exclusive songs on it or you will fail badly.
If you look at some of the most enduring MMOs out there (Runescape and EVE are two of the only pre-WoW MMOs that are still relevant in today's market) you'll notice that they cover many areas, with many types of content. They offer a complete game experience within a single world. I don't think it's coincidence those two games have endured and that they both offer full experiences.
Despite the fact that grinding is literally my least favorite aspect of an MMO, one of the MMOs I find myself most commonly gravitating back to and playing for the longest times is ArcheAge. This is because it a social game with PvP, crafting, trade, and exploration. A full game experience with powerful social bonds that I only end up leaving when utter disgust with the progression systems wears thin on both myself and the entire social circles I form within the game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I love PvP, instanced with competition if possible.
Nice fluid combat, it doesnt matter if it's action or tab-target. 2 of the best MMORPGs for me that i've played had opposite combat styles and i enjoyed the fok outta em. They just offered skill requiring fluid combat.
What do you like or tolerate?
Like: PvE, Social aspect, Crafting, Open World to explore, Events, Moderate Grinding, Story Line Questing. These are good stuff most MMORPGs actually offer but many overlook this and are looking too hard on the stuff they hate in a MMORPG and end up not playing it.
Tolerate: I can tolerate stuff like dailies n chores that most MMORPGs have nowadays and this is why i'm not one of the people who are qqing all the time they can't find good MMORPG. I tolerate many things, because my focus is on what i love and what are the MMORPGs i play strenghts/positive aspects.
What do you hate?
I hate broken PvP. It can be broken, because of p2w, heavy disbalance in classes or low pop = not enough people PvPing = Long ques for PvP fights. It kills a game for me if what i love is bad.
I hate lack of competition. Makes the game boring imo.
I actually hate if a game forces me to do everything in a group with people.
I hate old graphics, we're in 2k17 and i didn't buy good PC to play Runescapy crap.
I hate dull combat. Basically if the combat is stiff n in a fight be it against PvE big monster or a player i can't have plays where i can dodge stuff n block stuff or ways to outplay my enemy it's just boring stiff combat then and the game sux.