Again - they already said that there WILL be plenty of solo content, even if it isnt a solo focussed game.
Girls, you are both pretty.
Actually, in a recent stream they said they don't create "solo content". The game is designed for groups from the ground up, but they won't artificially prevent players from soloing when it's possible.
They very clearly said "if you login and your friends arent online there will always be something you can do on your own".
Sure there will be solo content. Faring nodes, crafting, exploring, playing the market. Questing we have seen has all required friends help, maybe something simple like a crafting quest will be done solo. This is not the type of game where you get a kill 10 rats quest. Going into the world to solo exp will be very doable but will be much higher risk and lower reward then teaming. No one will stop you from soloing but there will come a point you will need to team to really play this game. Thats the point.
Well, if true, there's always multi-boxing.
(Yeah, yeah, I know, they plan to make MBing not practical, we'll see.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It will be similar to EQ and VG soloing, definitely possible in a lot of areas but dungeons, bosses/named will all require at the minimum a small group. Class will also play a part, some classes are naturally better equipped to solo than others so if you roll a squishy class and pick the wrong area/mobs then you're going to have a bad day but half the fun if figuring that out
Vanguard was highly soloable with the right classes.
So soloers rejoice!
In the later years, sure, but that is when, in my opinion, the game took a turn for the worse too and that is not the trajectory that we want to follow.
Think vanilla EQ and VG solo ability but then add class interdependence with modern technology and our core Tenets to get a rough idea of how it will be.
Nothing beats hands on experience though, so you guys will be able to see for yourselves when we launch testing
It will be similar to EQ and VG soloing, definitely possible in a lot of areas but dungeons, bosses/named will all require at the minimum a small group. Class will also play a part, some classes are naturally better equipped to solo than others so if you roll a squishy class and pick the wrong area/mobs then you're going to have a bad day but half the fun if figuring that out
Vanguard was highly soloable with the right classes.
So soloers rejoice!
In the later years, sure, but that is when, in my opinion, the game took a turn for the worse too and that is not the trajectory that we want to follow.
Think vanilla EQ and VG solo ability but then add class interdependence with modern technology and our core Tenets to get a rough idea of how it will be.
Nothing beats hands on experience though, so you guys will be able to see for yourselves when we launch testing
For those saying VG was easy. 1. If your goal was to level to max then that was easy. You could easily find grind camps to do that. 2. If you wanted more of a challenge then there were always things to do that were tougher if you were willing to take a risk. Tougher meaning not easy.
Basically if it was easy for you that just means you werent tackling the harder content. That's on you.
That is a strawman. Even WoW has "hard" content. Yet it would be foolish to argue that the game as a whole hasn't been trivialized to the point it's no longer fun for mmorpg enthusiasts.
Only if you define "mmorpg enthusiasts" as everyone that agrees with you. Their players certainly do have fun playing it or they wouldnt pay for it.
As to VG, people died and just as often or moreso than in EQ. There were raids that most guilds had a tough time beating. There was group content that groups wiped on. That means the content was not trivial.
The measure of difficulty of a game is NOT how hard it is to reach max level. Do you seriously disagree with THAT statement? What a boring way to look at life that is, focusing so totally on leveling.
MMORPGs are largely about progression, and when levels provide most of your character strength, it's only logical to conclude that they play a large part in that progression. No matter how hard the mobs in the game are, if you're able to easily level it allows you to trivialize that hard content.
So yes, quite obviously a challenging leveling process is important to keep an mmorpg challenging as a whole. Content challenge means nothing (until max level) if you can just solo past it and come back when it's easy.
It will be similar to EQ and VG soloing, definitely possible in a lot of areas but dungeons, bosses/named will all require at the minimum a small group. Class will also play a part, some classes are naturally better equipped to solo than others so if you roll a squishy class and pick the wrong area/mobs then you're going to have a bad day but half the fun if figuring that out
Vanguard was highly soloable with the right classes.
So soloers rejoice!
In the later years, sure, but that is when, in my opinion, the game took a turn for the worse too and that is not the trajectory that we want to follow.
Think vanilla EQ and VG solo ability but then add class interdependence with modern technology and our core Tenets to get a rough idea of how it will be.
Nothing beats hands on experience though, so you guys will be able to see for yourselves when we launch testing
When will that be?
Soon
Don't make me use my geologic time joke again. You know I will.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If I have to group in an mmo, rest assured, I have no interest in communicating with you. To me .. you are a statball. Hopefully you don't suck so bad that i'll have to kick you, but I wont hesitate if you show any weakness at all. Random pugs are always a dice roll, and it's not a problem to roll those dice again. Grouping is great, when I want to play with my friends, but they aren't always on, and I still want to progress. So while you may be a necessity for the moment, you might as well be an npc.
Just based on this post you sound like the type of person who makes other people not want to group. Reading your post brought to mind a few occasions in early EQ when some guy in my group thought he could tell everyone else how to play their classes even though he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
There were a few times when someone like that became so obnoxious that we kicked him out of the group. The only upside to those people is that after you boot them the remaining group members have a sort of bonding experience talking about what a dumbass the guy was.
Your attitude is also a very strong argument against automatic group finding tools. I can clearly remember people in EQ being passed over for a spot in a group because they had a reputation for acting like an ass. Auto-grouping features give the jerks and jackasses of the gaming world a free pass for bad behavior but if you have to try to get groups with people who come to know you in game you better learn to check that attitude or hope that they do put in a lot of solo content.
If I have to group in an mmo, rest assured, I have no interest in communicating with you. To me .. you are a statball. Hopefully you don't suck so bad that i'll have to kick you, but I wont hesitate if you show any weakness at all. Random pugs are always a dice roll, and it's not a problem to roll those dice again. Grouping is great, when I want to play with my friends, but they aren't always on, and I still want to progress. So while you may be a necessity for the moment, you might as well be an npc.
Just based on this post you sound like the type of person who makes other people not want to group.
I immediately thought of a scene from the movie Stripes: "The name's Francis Sawyer, but everybody calls me Psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis, I'll kill you."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If I have to group in an mmo, rest assured, I have no interest in communicating with you. To me .. you are a statball. Hopefully you don't suck so bad that i'll have to kick you, but I wont hesitate if you show any weakness at all. Random pugs are always a dice roll, and it's not a problem to roll those dice again. Grouping is great, when I want to play with my friends, but they aren't always on, and I still want to progress. So while you may be a necessity for the moment, you might as well be an npc.
Just based on this post you sound like the type of person who makes other people not want to group. Reading your post brought to mind a few occasions in early EQ when some guy in my group thought he could tell everyone else how to play their classes even though he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
This.
Best response to this kind of asshole, boot him and find someone who is less of a sociopath.
If enough people add him to their "do not group" list, he'll either wind up soloing or move on to another game.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
If I have to group in an mmo, rest assured, I have no interest in communicating with you. To me .. you are a statball. Hopefully you don't suck so bad that i'll have to kick you, but I wont hesitate if you show any weakness at all. Random pugs are always a dice roll, and it's not a problem to roll those dice again. Grouping is great, when I want to play with my friends, but they aren't always on, and I still want to progress. So while you may be a necessity for the moment, you might as well be an npc.
Just based on this post you sound like the type of person who makes other people not want to group. Reading your post brought to mind a few occasions in early EQ when some guy in my group thought he could tell everyone else how to play their classes even though he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
This.
Best response to this kind of asshole, boot him and find someone who is less of a sociopath.
If enough people add him to their "do not group" list, he'll either wind up soloing or move on to another game.
You know PUG didnt always suck. Back in the day when classes filled a roll, you learned your roll in a team or got a bad rep and didnt get teams. These MMOs where all classes are hybrids, generic copies of DPS of some flavor. You have no idea what you are getting when a new person joined your PUG. In EQ, VG, DAoC and early WoW. That was the case, PUGS worked fine. After a few months go by and people learn their roll in a team. I am sure PUGS in Pantheon will be like the good old days. Forget looking for X class, people will be yelling LF-Healer, LF-CCer, LF-Buffer/Debuffer. Looks like a big welcome home sign to me.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
First, really, really tired of hearing this. Really, really tired of this question and the underlying insinuation that MMORPGs are only for group-centric players. SP games are not MMOs and you know that. With rare exceptions, they are one-shots, not dynamic, not changing, not evolving, not expanding. There are no festivals, world chat, trading, guilds, sharing, people. Shockingly, soloers want all these things in their games as much group-centrics do.
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
The very simple analogy would be to say ,how is a 4x100meter relay race going to cater to a soloist?It WON'T it is that simple,if one man could run the 4x100 on the same level as 4 men,then why would you need 4 men,honestly it is THAT simple,i am surprised many still need it spelled out.
yet again using the same analogy,some have tried to do the dumbest idea/fix...SCALING.You entirely ruin any and all immersion,you might as well remove all name plates and just call everything a computer number like AF54 is now level 24 and now it is level 35 and now it is level 37 etc etc.
So the proper way to do content IF you are trying to make it remotely challenging and immersive,is to NEED several abilities,several options and not just ONE option from ONE player.
So according to those who THINK they know better and THINK soloing is good for a game,i'll give one simple example and try and give me a straight answer.
I create a mob that is Fire proof but you as a solo'r have chosen to raise all Fire skills and Fire spells,so how would you be able to solo this mob?You CAN'T,that is why to create challenging and variable content/encounters you need lots of options ,lot's of different type players.
Ok another scenario,what if you have to fight a creature that is null to ALL magic?You are a soloing Healer with no physical skills at all and very weak melee.let's say you are a combination healer and Fire mage?Still all magic versus a creature that is magic proof.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
First, really, really tired of hearing this. Really, really tired of this question and the underlying insinuation that MMORPGs are only for group-centric players. SP games are not MMOs and you know that. With rare exceptions, they are one-shots, not dynamic, not changing, not evolving, not expanding. There are no festivals, world chat, trading, guilds, sharing, people. Shockingly, soloers want all these things in their games as much group-centrics do.
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
Well, here's the problem Caziel.
Every single mmos is made completely for soloing, It's now a mini game to do dungeons, no other reason's. Even the classics sold their soul to easy. Try playing EQ2 or any other classic, their not even shells of what they once were.
I could understand your need for soloing, heck we all like to solo now and then and for the reasons you like too just the same....... But their all solo centric games almost to the point they shouldn't be called mmo's.
A game has to be large to cover both solo and group, but instead they are only small games and cater ONLY to solo, with the exception of mini games..... This is why people like Zindaihas is so frustrated.
FWIW I never liked that some classes soloed better than others in EQ.
Since all classes should feel welcome in a group, they should all solo comparably as well.
Rogues, for instance, could have be given a solo-friendly ability to occasionally stun an enemy to get off a back stab at the cost of wiping the hate list. Warriors could have been given a "turtle" mode that regenerates them faster but loses aggro. (eg, abilities that would be actively bad in groups most of the time.)
Lots of people pick classes for RP/fun reasons that don't involve a preference for soloing or grouping.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
First, really, really tired of hearing this. Really, really tired of this question and the underlying insinuation that MMORPGs are only for group-centric players. SP games are not MMOs and you know that. With rare exceptions, they are one-shots, not dynamic, not changing, not evolving, not expanding. There are no festivals, world chat, trading, guilds, sharing, people. Shockingly, soloers want all these things in their games as much group-centrics do.
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
Well, here's the problem Caziel.
Every single mmos is made completely for soloing, It's now a mini game to do dungeons, no other reason's. Even the classics sold their soul to easy. Try playing EQ2 or any other classic, their not even shells of what they once were.
I could understand your need for soloing, heck we all like to solo now and then and for the reasons you like too just the same....... But their all solo centric games almost to the point they shouldn't be called mmo's.
A game has to be large to cover both solo and group, but instead they are only small games and cater ONLY to solo, with the exception of mini games..... This is why people like Zindaihas is so frustrated.
That's not the problem at all. Have you played solo recently? It's as mind numbing as the group content you think it ruined. The whole game is shit and people seem to think it's the fault of solo content when the solo content is equally as shit.
The real problem is that MMOs aren't made completely for anyone. They are made completely for everyone and the end result is a game for no one. Unfortunately, "no one" seems to actually be the largest market and the rest of us get left in the dust.
My pet peeve? Games designed to solo from 1-80 in 5 days that have nothing but large group content at the end.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
First, really, really tired of hearing this. Really, really tired of this question and the underlying insinuation that MMORPGs are only for group-centric players. SP games are not MMOs and you know that. With rare exceptions, they are one-shots, not dynamic, not changing, not evolving, not expanding. There are no festivals, world chat, trading, guilds, sharing, people. Shockingly, soloers want all these things in their games as much group-centrics do.
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
Well, here's the problem Caziel.
Every single mmos is made completely for soloing, It's now a mini game to do dungeons, no other reason's. Even the classics sold their soul to easy. Try playing EQ2 or any other classic, their not even shells of what they once were.
I could understand your need for soloing, heck we all like to solo now and then and for the reasons you like too just the same....... But their all solo centric games almost to the point they shouldn't be called mmo's.
A game has to be large to cover both solo and group, but instead they are only small games and cater ONLY to solo, with the exception of mini games..... This is why people like Zindaihas is so frustrated.
That's not the problem at all. Have you played solo recently? It's as mind numbing as the group content you think it ruined. The whole game is shit and people seem to think it's the fault of solo content when the solo content is equally as shit.
The real problem is that MMOs aren't made completely for anyone. They are made completely for everyone and the end result is a game for no one. Unfortunately, "no one" seems to actually be the largest market and the rest of us get left in the dust.
My pet peeve? Games designed to solo from 1-80 in 5 days that have nothing but large group content at the end.
Your right too Dagon13
In fact I never thought of it the way you explained !.......... It's far worst than solo, their basically nothing.
However I have used the word playgrounds for kids.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
Of course, the question could be asked back, why are you inside alone in front of a computer when there are 6 billion people on this planet with whom you could be interacting in person?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
Of course, the question could be asked back, why are you inside alone in front of a computer when there are 6 billion people on this planet with whom you could be interacting in person?
He could always have 4 hot babes sitting next to him while he's on his computer. You never really know.
I solo play alot but even in vannilla wow you did need other players. Yes it did take long to get group but also that did form new friendships and not just random asshats since it wasnt server crossed matchmaking. Hope for a nice balance for both
I assume that Pantheon will support soloplay about as good or bad as Vanguard
did. Meaning its perfectly possible, but the good content is either
excruciatingly hard or outright impossible.
I soloed a lot in Vanguard, thanks to the fact I'm from europe and hanged on to Halgar until they closed it down. Thanks to that, I know the experience of being the only player in a MMO server quite well. Its not so fun, really.
I strongly hope that Pantheon, thanks to the scalability they are aiming for and thanks to the fact they can polish the game, wont end up like that.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs.
Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a
single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway,
playing single-player in a multi-player world.
Of course, the question could be asked back, why are you inside alone in
front of a computer when there are 6 billion people on this planet with
whom you could be interacting in person?
Obviously you cant possibly
interact with 6 billion people. Many of them dont speak English. Most
of them are far away. All but a very small minority has no reason to
interact with you specifically in the first place.
I see no problem with the demand of wanting to play solo. The only issue is when people dont understand that Pantheon, while allowing this, isnt specifically designed for that.
I have a question for players who prefer to solo in MMORPGs. Why bother to even play an MMORPG at all? Why not simply play a single-player game? That's pretty much what you're doing anyway, playing single-player in a multi-player world.
First, really, really tired of hearing this. Really, really tired of this question and the underlying insinuation that MMORPGs are only for group-centric players. SP games are not MMOs and you know that. With rare exceptions, they are one-shots, not dynamic, not changing, not evolving, not expanding. There are no festivals, world chat, trading, guilds, sharing, people. Shockingly, soloers want all these things in their games as much group-centrics do.
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
Because group-centric players like me,
1) We solo some of the time anyway. The game doesn't really have to built with soling in mind for there still to be ways to solo and things to do on your own. EQ is a great example of a group - centered game that had plenty of soloing in it and options for people that liked soloing. Crafting in general (one of my favorite in game activities lately) tends to be a solo activity.
2) We don't like it when soloing dominates leveling. Solo players generally had their first MMORPG experience with WoW. Therefore, they want all the mobs extremely easy to kill for every class and the leveling to be done in a solo manner. Often solo players don't realize that their play-style, when catered to, dominates the leveling portion of the game. Its actually less effective to group than to solo in most modern MMORPGs until you get to the end of the game....even then solo is still usually the best money (see number reason 1).
3) We are sick of Dev effort going to make the solo portion of the game enjoyable for everyone. If you mostly want to be grouping when you game -- it makes sense that you would want the Devs to be mostly focused on that. Not to mention many changes to empower solo players have unintended and negative impacts on the game. I think it is a major culprit of class homogenizing personally. It brings new expectations to "class - balance" where all classes need to be somewhat equal at soling.
4) We believe most people (not all) that like to exclusively solo and complain about people, have attitude problems and need to get over themselves or grow up. The kind of "I hate people" diatribes solo players go on about doesn't win over many converts. It breeds a generally negative attitude against the solo mentality and those that preach it.
5) It's not my problem you don't have time to play my group-centric MMORPG...go play one of the 20 other ones please. And I'm not a big fan of magic solutions where the devs can build a game where solo players and group players are both 100% happy. It doesn't work like that and its been a big realization for those in the MMORPG community over the years. You can't have 1 game that nails everything perfectly.
I dont know how Pantheons classes will perform solo, but in Vanguard you had a huge influence on how good you could solo by your class choices:
Warrior - No soloing utility whatsoever, poorest of all solists, huge downtime between fights since there was no healing ability and hardly any (and no effective) healing items Paladin - In good gear very good defenses, decent healing ability that doesnt improve much by better gear, not that high dps output Dread Knight - Extremely gear dependent - better gear improved both your defenses and livetaps extremely. In poor gear you couldnt do much. In good raid gear you would rule soloplay. This is the only class that ever managed to solo a raid boss in Vanguard.
Ranger - Excellent kiting class with snare, runspeed, small (really just gimmick) heal, and excellent range damage. Decent stealth, too. Rogue - Poor kiter. Second highest dps in game, excellent stealth too, mediocre runspeed selfbuff, mediocre ranged damage, not sure if they got a snare later hardly anyone played them any my own never made it past level ten. Bard - Low damage kiter, second best CC too. Extreme runspeeds (that got nerfed later), fear, snare, but mediocre ranged damage. Could also avoid many mobs with invisibility. Monk - Very limited self healing ability, some weapons had a lifetap on them,
very good damage output, not to bad defenses, especially on the Drunken
Monk. The Monk could escape bad situations with Fake Death, too.
Cleric - Second best defenses after tanks, good healing (unlike some people believed far from the best though, Clerics had a huge mana regen issue that was later made less awful but still persisted) but not much hitpoints, lowest damage in the game, although this could be somewhat improved by the Affinities War or Death. Unkillable but I literally had cases when I couldnt kill mobs fast enough for the respawn. Shaman - Extremely mixed in the solo performance. Bear Shamans are one of the Sologods with extreme defenses and healing, and still much better damage output than a Cleric, and the only true summon with tanking and aggro abilities, much like a Necromancer. Wolf Shamans would get Stealth etc and still didnt too awful. Phoenix Shamans however have been by far the worst solist healer - mage defenses, poor damage output, limited snare abilities, many spells not useable while kiting for their long casting times. Disciple - God mode: very good defenses (hardly worse than Monk), high evasion, high resistance vs spells, extreme single target healing output, and finally also very good damage output. Even when everything else failed, they still had Fake Death. Blood Mage - Mage defenses, but a lot of hitpoints and strong lifetaps;
also very high damage output. A mob that could silence was certain death and
handling a second mob was tough. There was a root to handle one add but
it was slow cast and could easily be interrupted. Overall not a great
solist but certainly one that could handle most mobs 1vs1 very well.
Sorcerer - Decent, with ingame items excellent kiter, damage king. There was a choice of summoned items (rings), one of them would give you levitation another run- and spellcasting-speed; you could only summon one of these items at any point in time, it would use up a gear slot when used, and you couldnt give them away either. With ingame items however you could get levitation and additional runspeed later and after that the Sorcerer was a pretty decent solist with both levitation, runspeed and some ice based snares. Also invisibility. Bad situations can be handled with evac. Druid - Excellent kiter, levitation buff, runspeed buff, snares, spike damage king, lots of utility too, evac. Psionicist - CC god, decent ranged damage too, evac. Necromancer - The third solist god after Dread Knight and Disciple; best pet with good aggro and defenses and healing (the only other real pet was the one of Bear Shaman), also of course excellent dps output, especially against thougher mobs. Also fearkiting with snare. Fake Death and evac for resolving bad situations.
I think considering that Pantheon is done by the same people, very likely we'll see again a game in which class choice dictates how well you can solo.
Comments
(Yeah, yeah, I know, they plan to make MBing not practical, we'll see.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So yes, quite obviously a challenging leveling process is important to keep an mmorpg challenging as a whole. Content challenge means nothing (until max level) if you can just solo past it and come back when it's easy.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Just based on this post you sound like the type of person who makes other people not want to group. Reading your post brought to mind a few occasions in early EQ when some guy in my group thought he could tell everyone else how to play their classes even though he clearly had no idea what he was talking about.
There were a few times when someone like that became so obnoxious that we kicked him out of the group. The only upside to those people is that after you boot them the remaining group members have a sort of bonding experience talking about what a dumbass the guy was.
Your attitude is also a very strong argument against automatic group finding tools. I can clearly remember people in EQ being passed over for a spot in a group because they had a reputation for acting like an ass. Auto-grouping features give the jerks and jackasses of the gaming world a free pass for bad behavior but if you have to try to get groups with people who come to know you in game you better learn to check that attitude or hope that they do put in a lot of solo content.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
This.
Best response to this kind of asshole, boot him and find someone who is less of a sociopath.
If enough people add him to their "do not group" list, he'll either wind up soloing or move on to another game.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
I don't group while questing because I want to play the way I enjoy. If I want to stop to read the entire quest panel, I can. If I want to go craft something in the middle of a quest, I can. If I want to switch to an alt to check something out, I can. If I want to spent 15 minutes browsing the AH, I can. If I want to go to my house and put up a decoration I just got, I can. If I want to take the time to consider strategy before a fight, I can. And the wonderment of all this is that I am not inconveniencing anyone else while I'm doing it.
I see myself as a more polite player than those who group and waste other people's time.
Question for you, why is it group-centrics prefer that solo players didn't play MMOs?
The very simple analogy would be to say ,how is a 4x100meter relay race going to cater to a soloist?It WON'T it is that simple,if one man could run the 4x100 on the same level as 4 men,then why would you need 4 men,honestly it is THAT simple,i am surprised many still need it spelled out.
yet again using the same analogy,some have tried to do the dumbest idea/fix...SCALING.You entirely ruin any and all immersion,you might as well remove all name plates and just call everything a computer number like AF54 is now level 24 and now it is level 35 and now it is level 37 etc etc.
So the proper way to do content IF you are trying to make it remotely challenging and immersive,is to NEED several abilities,several options and not just ONE option from ONE player.
So according to those who THINK they know better and THINK soloing is good for a game,i'll give one simple example and try and give me a straight answer.
I create a mob that is Fire proof but you as a solo'r have chosen to raise all Fire skills and Fire spells,so how would you be able to solo this mob?You CAN'T,that is why to create challenging and variable content/encounters you need lots of options ,lot's of different type players.
Ok another scenario,what if you have to fight a creature that is null to ALL magic?You are a soloing Healer with no physical skills at all and very weak melee.let's say you are a combination healer and Fire mage?Still all magic versus a creature that is magic proof.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, here's the problem Caziel.
Every single mmos is made completely for soloing, It's now a mini game to do dungeons, no other reason's. Even the classics sold their soul to easy. Try playing EQ2 or any other classic, their not even shells of what they once were.
I could understand your need for soloing, heck we all like to solo now and then and for the reasons you like too just the same....... But their all solo centric games almost to the point they shouldn't be called mmo's.
A game has to be large to cover both solo and group, but instead they are only small games and cater ONLY to solo, with the exception of mini games..... This is why people like Zindaihas is so frustrated.
Since all classes should feel welcome in a group, they should all solo comparably as well.
Rogues, for instance, could have be given a solo-friendly ability to occasionally stun an enemy to get off a back stab at the cost of wiping the hate list. Warriors could have been given a "turtle" mode that regenerates them faster but loses aggro. (eg, abilities that would be actively bad in groups most of the time.)
Lots of people pick classes for RP/fun reasons that don't involve a preference for soloing or grouping.
The real problem is that MMOs aren't made completely for anyone. They are made completely for everyone and the end result is a game for no one. Unfortunately, "no one" seems to actually be the largest market and the rest of us get left in the dust.
My pet peeve? Games designed to solo from 1-80 in 5 days that have nothing but large group content at the end.
Your right too Dagon13
In fact I never thought of it the way you explained !.......... It's far worst than solo, their basically nothing.
However I have used the word playgrounds for kids.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Had an awesome PUG on Agnarr last weekend.
I had logged in expecting to spend the day solo-farming some quests. Wound up with an invite after less than an hour.
Two mages, two necros, two shaman, 100% fun.
While LFG I managed to solo 3 of the 4 drops I needed for one of my turn ins. No wasted time there either.
This is what I hope for in Pantheon.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
He could always have 4 hot babes sitting next to him while he's on his computer. You never really know.
I soloed a lot in Vanguard, thanks to the fact I'm from europe and hanged on to Halgar until they closed it down. Thanks to that, I know the experience of being the only player in a MMO server quite well. Its not so fun, really.
I strongly hope that Pantheon, thanks to the scalability they are aiming for and thanks to the fact they can polish the game, wont end up like that.
Obviously you cant possibly interact with 6 billion people. Many of them dont speak English. Most of them are far away. All but a very small minority has no reason to interact with you specifically in the first place.
I see no problem with the demand of wanting to play solo. The only issue is when people dont understand that Pantheon, while allowing this, isnt specifically designed for that.
1) We solo some of the time anyway. The game doesn't really have to built with soling in mind for there still to be ways to solo and things to do on your own. EQ is a great example of a group - centered game that had plenty of soloing in it and options for people that liked soloing. Crafting in general (one of my favorite in game activities lately) tends to be a solo activity.
2) We don't like it when soloing dominates leveling. Solo players generally had their first MMORPG experience with WoW. Therefore, they want all the mobs extremely easy to kill for every class and the leveling to be done in a solo manner. Often solo players don't realize that their play-style, when catered to, dominates the leveling portion of the game. Its actually less effective to group than to solo in most modern MMORPGs until you get to the end of the game....even then solo is still usually the best money (see number reason 1).
3) We are sick of Dev effort going to make the solo portion of the game enjoyable for everyone. If you mostly want to be grouping when you game -- it makes sense that you would want the Devs to be mostly focused on that. Not to mention many changes to empower solo players have unintended and negative impacts on the game. I think it is a major culprit of class homogenizing personally. It brings new expectations to "class - balance" where all classes need to be somewhat equal at soling.
4) We believe most people (not all) that like to exclusively solo and complain about people, have attitude problems and need to get over themselves or grow up. The kind of "I hate people" diatribes solo players go on about doesn't win over many converts. It breeds a generally negative attitude against the solo mentality and those that preach it.
5) It's not my problem you don't have time to play my group-centric MMORPG...go play one of the 20 other ones please. And I'm not a big fan of magic solutions where the devs can build a game where solo players and group players are both 100% happy. It doesn't work like that and its been a big realization for those in the MMORPG community over the years. You can't have 1 game that nails everything perfectly.
Warrior - No soloing utility whatsoever, poorest of all solists, huge downtime between fights since there was no healing ability and hardly any (and no effective) healing items
Paladin - In good gear very good defenses, decent healing ability that doesnt improve much by better gear, not that high dps output
Dread Knight - Extremely gear dependent - better gear improved both your defenses and livetaps extremely. In poor gear you couldnt do much. In good raid gear you would rule soloplay. This is the only class that ever managed to solo a raid boss in Vanguard.
Ranger - Excellent kiting class with snare, runspeed, small (really just gimmick) heal, and excellent range damage. Decent stealth, too.
Rogue - Poor kiter. Second highest dps in game, excellent stealth too, mediocre runspeed selfbuff, mediocre ranged damage, not sure if they got a snare later hardly anyone played them any my own never made it past level ten.
Bard - Low damage kiter, second best CC too. Extreme runspeeds (that got nerfed later), fear, snare, but mediocre ranged damage. Could also avoid many mobs with invisibility.
Monk - Very limited self healing ability, some weapons had a lifetap on them, very good damage output, not to bad defenses, especially on the Drunken Monk. The Monk could escape bad situations with Fake Death, too.
Cleric - Second best defenses after tanks, good healing (unlike some people believed far from the best though, Clerics had a huge mana regen issue that was later made less awful but still persisted) but not much hitpoints, lowest damage in the game, although this could be somewhat improved by the Affinities War or Death. Unkillable but I literally had cases when I couldnt kill mobs fast enough for the respawn.
Shaman - Extremely mixed in the solo performance. Bear Shamans are one of the Sologods with extreme defenses and healing, and still much better damage output than a Cleric, and the only true summon with tanking and aggro abilities, much like a Necromancer. Wolf Shamans would get Stealth etc and still didnt too awful. Phoenix Shamans however have been by far the worst solist healer - mage defenses, poor damage output, limited snare abilities, many spells not useable while kiting for their long casting times.
Disciple - God mode: very good defenses (hardly worse than Monk), high evasion, high resistance vs spells, extreme single target healing output, and finally also very good damage output. Even when everything else failed, they still had Fake Death.
Blood Mage - Mage defenses, but a lot of hitpoints and strong lifetaps; also very high damage output. A mob that could silence was certain death and handling a second mob was tough. There was a root to handle one add but it was slow cast and could easily be interrupted. Overall not a great solist but certainly one that could handle most mobs 1vs1 very well.
Sorcerer - Decent, with ingame items excellent kiter, damage king. There was a choice of summoned items (rings), one of them would give you levitation another run- and spellcasting-speed; you could only summon one of these items at any point in time, it would use up a gear slot when used, and you couldnt give them away either. With ingame items however you could get levitation and additional runspeed later and after that the Sorcerer was a pretty decent solist with both levitation, runspeed and some ice based snares. Also invisibility. Bad situations can be handled with evac.
Druid - Excellent kiter, levitation buff, runspeed buff, snares, spike damage king, lots of utility too, evac.
Psionicist - CC god, decent ranged damage too, evac.
Necromancer - The third solist god after Dread Knight and Disciple; best pet with good aggro and defenses and healing (the only other real pet was the one of Bear Shaman), also of course excellent dps output, especially against thougher mobs. Also fearkiting with snare. Fake Death and evac for resolving bad situations.
I think considering that Pantheon is done by the same people, very likely we'll see again a game in which class choice dictates how well you can solo.