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The MMO definition has evolved and the old definition no longer applies
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
There are many threads arguing what an MMO is or is not.
I'll just lay it on straight. The reason no one can agree is because the definition is outdated. Simple as that. Some people cling to the old way, but most have moved on and embraced the new definition.
Lets look at older MMOs
Asheron's Call. Ultima Online. EVE Online. Star Wars Galaxies (as just some examples). All massive worlds with no instances or small co-op dungeons. They could be played by thousands in one single world.
Todays MMOs? Far more complicated and fluid. Today, many MMOs use co-op features instead of MMO features. Many themepark MMOs heavily entice people (with far better items than crafted) with small man parties, like WoW its 6 player limit dungeons. That definitely wouldn't be considered massively multiplayer in the old days. Does that make WoW not an MMO? No, but it is a great example of how MMOs are no longer the same from before and how the old definition doesn't apply.
Then you have MMOs that aren't very massive anymore, just the potential to be massive. Look at Istaria and there 5-10 off-peak active player base and then only 40-50 at peak...it has the potential to be massive...sadly it isn't and its a dead MMO. Still an MMO, but not really massive as it once was and in fact is smaller than most minecraft or even call of duty servers.
Does it make Istaria not an MMO? No, but that is where the fluidity of the definition comes in. People still consider it an MMO, because the definition of MMO itself has changed. It doesn't mean massive amounts of players or a huge living breathing world. MMOs are games like GW2, co-op experiences like WoW, or games like Destiny 2 that have many MMO features and feels more like an MMO than many MMOs do.
Does that make the other games not MMOs? No, because its a fluid definition. Many games could easily be considered MMOs in todays world. MMO definitions from even in the early 2000s no longer apply to today. The MMO genre has changed greatly, and now only oldschool MMO gamers are left not embracing the change. But they too will eventually give in and be with the modern times.
MMOs have changed, and that too means what is considered an MMO or not has changed as well. MMOs have evolved to be many types of games, and the old definition is outdated and no longer applies to newer MMOs.
I'll just lay it on straight. The reason no one can agree is because the definition is outdated. Simple as that. Some people cling to the old way, but most have moved on and embraced the new definition.
Lets look at older MMOs
Asheron's Call. Ultima Online. EVE Online. Star Wars Galaxies (as just some examples). All massive worlds with no instances or small co-op dungeons. They could be played by thousands in one single world.
Todays MMOs? Far more complicated and fluid. Today, many MMOs use co-op features instead of MMO features. Many themepark MMOs heavily entice people (with far better items than crafted) with small man parties, like WoW its 6 player limit dungeons. That definitely wouldn't be considered massively multiplayer in the old days. Does that make WoW not an MMO? No, but it is a great example of how MMOs are no longer the same from before and how the old definition doesn't apply.
Then you have MMOs that aren't very massive anymore, just the potential to be massive. Look at Istaria and there 5-10 off-peak active player base and then only 40-50 at peak...it has the potential to be massive...sadly it isn't and its a dead MMO. Still an MMO, but not really massive as it once was and in fact is smaller than most minecraft or even call of duty servers.
Does it make Istaria not an MMO? No, but that is where the fluidity of the definition comes in. People still consider it an MMO, because the definition of MMO itself has changed. It doesn't mean massive amounts of players or a huge living breathing world. MMOs are games like GW2, co-op experiences like WoW, or games like Destiny 2 that have many MMO features and feels more like an MMO than many MMOs do.
Does that make the other games not MMOs? No, because its a fluid definition. Many games could easily be considered MMOs in todays world. MMO definitions from even in the early 2000s no longer apply to today. The MMO genre has changed greatly, and now only oldschool MMO gamers are left not embracing the change. But they too will eventually give in and be with the modern times.
MMOs have changed, and that too means what is considered an MMO or not has changed as well. MMOs have evolved to be many types of games, and the old definition is outdated and no longer applies to newer MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Post edited by TheScavenger on
and 6 others.
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I know a lot of people on these forums won't agree (as in this quote), because the oldschool MMO gamers congregate here. But everywhere else, many games today are considered MMOs that aren't on these forums. The oldschool MMOers are already absolete hanging on by memories of old times, but MMOs are vastly different than they used to be.
The biggest example are the small co-op experiences most provide to get better items. Destiny 2 has about the same sized instances, if not a bit bigger, than WoW's instances. WoW from 1-110 the vast majority of time to get better items is in 6 man groups. In Destiny 2 if I recall its 24 sized instances...vastly bigger than WoW's co-op experience.
But that doesn't make WoW not an MMO, both are MMOs in todays definition. You'd never see tiny co-op sized groups in old MMOs, because MMOs themselves changed. The people on MMORPG.com will argue otherwise, but that is because they are stuck in the past and haven't gotten into the more modern times of what MMOs actually are.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
...
*Walks away slowly without making eye contact*
Wouldn't want the screeching to start.
As for the topic itself
The other thing that MMOs do that they didn't before is small capped instances instead of an open world.
Star Citizen, each "instance" has very few players in each one. That is by far not a massive multiplayer game...if someone is going by the old definition of MMO. However, people still regard it as an MMO however, because the definition itself has changed.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Let.It.Go.
~~ postlarval ~~
You don't get to decide it though.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So would the majority agree to "let it go" when people say Destiny 2 (or many other games) are MMOs? Or does "let it go" only apply to people who are up with the times and think MMO definitions today are different than they were before?
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
So I think I gave enough evidence in the above posts. Sadly people here (not all, but most, too many old people here that can't handle change) just can't accept that MMOs like Destiny 2 exist and won't bother reading the facts. They'll keep complaining for an oldschool experience, but won't ever find it because MMOs today are not the same as MMOs of old and the very definition needs to be updated.
Maybe one or two oldschool MMOs will come out, but will fail because oldschool MMOs are not what modern gamers want and it will show that people don't want that experience. While MMORPG.com would make it seem like 100s of thousands want an oldschool experience...its in fact a tiny majority who do. MMOs today are like Destiny 2, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, even Diablo 3 could be considered an MMO-lite.
Eventually people here will be replaced with people who accept change and discussions like this won't have to exist. And it will be regarded that there can be many types of MMOs, and they don't have to be like old MMOs that barely anyone played.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
aint that rich ........... go figure
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
However. The same can be true for anyone talking about oldschool MMOs, how WoW sucks now and how it was good before, or the countless threads repeated every week about free to play, or group or solo or an infinite amount of topics repeated every day and week. Why aren't you complaining about those ones and going to all of them about how bad they are since its been done before? I got it, its because you agree with the topic at hand. Hook line sinker, you got caught.
Now onto the topic as that is what this thread is about
The definition of MMOs just needs to be updated is all. Or maybe it stays as it is, and many MMOs then lose the "MMO" label.
Is the definition to remain Massively Multiplayer like the old times? While like I said, nothing massively multiplayer about 6 man dungeons in WoW or small instances, so that would then make WoW not an "MMO" by oldschool definitions. Along with many other co-op based themepark "MMOs" or any other "MMO" that heavily instances their game (like Star Citizen).
Or does the definition get updated and encompass a huge range of games? Many MMOs then keep their label, and games like Destiny 2 can officially be considered MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Or not and be part of the problem.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
The definition of MMOs just needs to be updated is all. Or maybe it stays as it is, and many MMOs then lose the "MMO" label.
Is the definition to remain Massively Multiplayer like the old times? While like I said, nothing massively multiplayer about 6 man dungeons in WoW or small instances, so that would then make WoW not an "MMO" by oldschool definitions. Along with many other co-op based themepark "MMOs" or any other "MMO" that heavily instances their game (like Star Citizen).
Or does the definition get updated and encompass a huge range of games? Many MMOs then keep their label, and games like Destiny 2 can officially be considered MMOs.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
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/eyeroll
~~ postlarval ~~
Guild Wars one for example was not a MMORPG, it was a Cooperative Online RPG. Essentially a graphical lobby based RPG. Destiny is essentially a FPS with cooperative play, with a graphical lobby system. It is not a MMORPG, but what does that matter? I find that the need to classify a genre now is almost pointless.
If Destiny is a MMO, then so is Call of Duty.
MMORPG is not about the amount of players playing at once, it is more about the idea of a virtual world with thousands of people ABLE to play at once, hundred of which in the same area of a persistent online world. However even this line has been blurred so badly it is almost pointless to attempt to classify MMOs today.
For example Crowfall is considered a MMORPG, however shares more in common with a MOBA than a MMORPG.
Well that is my ramble on this. Just play what you enjoy... Genres only help you find games you may like.