The game has some truly boring quests but I played it very leisurely and I can definitely sympathize if you are eager to play the Dark Knight how frustrating it must be. I do not think these games will change this as if you play any of the Japanese RPGs you will realise this. I think they have some elixir you can buy to bypass some quests.
The game does have a lot of gates. Even abilities...you can't open "A" ability until you do the class quest and you can't do the class quest until you do this or that in the main quest....it is a bit annoying.
The OP is fine with the Main Story Line (MSL) and enjoyed the text and cut scenes. The topic here is Non-MSL (Filler) Quests, the doing of, not the reading or watching of. I have read every post up to DMKano's 0615 post, and I can understand others' frustration with post that read, "If you don't like the Story", which is NOT what is being discussed here.
@PottedPlant22, what are the "main scenario progression" and the "ARR completion" like? It sounds like they by pass all content. What I think @Quicksand and others might be looking for is a supply of "buy pass this quest" potions. Some way to get around the content they don't like, in this case the DOING parts of quests. Is there anything like that, Where they can say get a list to check off what content they don't want?
As for me, I started on release, but I don't really remember this game at all. I didn't return for ARR. The world was small and cramped (mostly made of halls and rooms, like a Rogue Like). The cities Looked good but didn't feel all that good / interesting. I don't remember what class I played, or what quests I did, what mobs I fought, or the nature of the combat or crafting.
I started with FF6 and I have forgotten everything about this series. I'm really not trying to bad mouth it, just stating a fact as it pertains to me, YMMV. If your experience was different, then kongrats.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The OP is fine with the Main Story Line (MSL) and enjoyed the text and cut scenes. The topic here is Non-MSL (Filler) Quests, the doing of, not the reading or watching of. I have read every post up to DMKano's 0615 post, and I can understand others' frustration with post that read, "If you don't like the Story", which is NOT what is being discussed here.
@PottedPlant22, what are the "main scenario progression" and the "ARR completion" like? It sounds like they by pass all content. What I think @Quicksand and others might be looking for is a supply of "buy pass this quest" potions. Some way to get around the content they don't like, in this case the DOING parts of quests. Is there anything like that, Where they can say get a list to check off what content they don't want?
As for me, I started on release, but I don't really remember this game at all. I didn't return for ARR. The world was small and cramped (mostly made of halls and rooms, like a Rogue Like). The cities Looked good but didn't feel all that good / interesting. I don't remember what class I played, or what quests I did, what mobs I fought, or the nature of the combat or crafting.
I started with FF6 and I have forgotten everything about this series. I'm really not trying to bad mouth it, just stating a fact as it pertains to me, YMMV. If your experience was different, then kongrats.
Exactly. Increase MSQ xp enough to where sidequests are only if you feel like it. Otherwise when the game requires 2k quests to get to the content that anyone does anymore.....no new players will stay, period.
@PottedPlant22, what are the "main scenario progression" and the "ARR completion" like? It sounds like they by pass all content. What I think @Quicksand and others might be looking for is a supply of "buy pass this quest" potions. Some way to get around the content they don't like, in this case the DOING parts of quests. Is there anything like that, Where they can say get a list to check off what content they don't want?
The two options available are $18 and you bypass ARR storyline and the 100 quests after ARR storyline. This will get you to the Heavensward expansion. For the OPs specific situation he would be able to immediately skip the 100 quests and be able to play the Dark Knight job.
The second option is the $25 option and that gets you to the Stormblood expansion, bypassing all storyline content through Heavensward.
They do indeed pass the content. They get all the perks, achievements, mounts, items that the storyline would give you. You also can watch the cutscenes in the inn.
You might not have had that feeling of wanting to skip everything, if you would've known just how far you need to get into the story to actually unlock DRK.
You got carrot on a stick'ed (?? ) by SE a little too long, i can relate. Would rant too!
Caution though, the potions that let you skip content do NOT raise your characters level. As a level ten you can't buy your way into the expansions, you still have to get to level 50 or 60. The 100 quests that gate HW though? That alone is worth the price tbh.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Yeah, that 100 Seventh Astral series is rough. I was in a similar boat, gunning for MCH. Luckily, I found my old character and started from near the end of ARR.
... and to this day EQ2 housing is likely better than most ...
Kind of a side note...
Just wanted to chime in on this... I logged into EQ2 again recently to check it out and see how it's doin' (it's till doin').
While playing, I learned I'd acquired the ability to receive an entire instance of "Isle of Refuge" as my own personal housing.
Yes. An entire island.
Going through the housing on there, I found several other *HUGE* environments with a lot of variety. You can also get an entire instance of one of the old Qeynos "neighborhoods" as your own private home.
It's insane and, really, only further underscores just how absolutey terrible the limitations on FFXIV's housing system are. EQ2 is a game built on *flawed* technology (it was originally built to specifically support a CPU architecture that never took off), from ~2003... and it has a housing system that puts XIV's to shame.
... and to this day EQ2 housing is likely better than most ...
Kind of a side note...
Just wanted to chime in on this... I logged into EQ2 again recently to check it out and see how it's doin' (it's till doin').
While playing, I learned I'd acquired the ability to receive an entire instance of "Isle of Refuge" as my own personal housing.
Yes. An entire island.
Going through the housing on there, I found several other *HUGE* environments with a lot of variety. You can also get an entire instance of one of the old Qeynos "neighborhoods" as your own private home.
It's insane and, really, only further underscores just how absolutey terrible the limitations on FFXIV's housing system are. EQ2 is a game built on *flawed* technology (it was originally built to specifically support a CPU architecture that never took off), from ~2003... and it has a housing system that puts XIV's to shame.
But anyway... as you were..
End side note...
Quite an unfair comparison. FF14 was built with the ps3 in mind, a console from 2006 which when it comes to specs was somewhat like a high end spec PC from 2004, it also has severe memory restrictions that needed to be worked around. EQ2 to this day is an unoptimised mess that could hardly be played on hardware from these days, FF14 ran almost perfect on the PS3. And I won't start talking about a graphics comparison, lets just say that FF14 is one of the, if not the, best looking MMOs right now.
EQ2 might have 'bigger' housing but I still prefer a small diamond over a giant turd
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Quite an unfair comparison. FF14 was built with the ps3 in mind, a console from 2006 which when it comes to specs was somewhat like a high end spec PC from 2004, it also has severe memory restrictions that needed to be worked around. EQ2 to this day is an unoptimised mess that could hardly be played on hardware from these days, FF14 ran almost perfect on the PS3. And I won't start talking about a graphics comparison, lets just say that FF14 is one of the, if not the, best looking MMOs right now.
EQ2 might have 'bigger' housing but I still prefer a small diamond over a giant turd
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Took me a bit to get back around to this post but, having now read it, there's quite a bit to unpack here, so... Let's get to it.
I'll start with the closing statement:
"EQ2 might have 'bigger' housing but I still prefer a small diamond over a giant turd "
Well, your "smiley" of apparent self-satisfaction notwithstanding, this has a couple major problems right off the bat. You commit two sins in a single sentence. Impressive!
You are (1) creating a false dichotomy, and (2) asserting a matter of personal taste/preference as though it were one of the only two options (ie. "turd" or "diamond").
Put another way... Someone who doesn't share your opinion of EQ2 doesn't have to choose one or the other. They can get the "big and shiny diamond". Several of them, actually, if they want.
And I won't start talking about a graphics comparison, lets just say
that FF14 is one of the, if not the, best looking MMOs right now.
Say it all you like, in as many ways as you like. It's personal preference/taste. Nothing more.
Quite an unfair comparison. FF14 was built with the ps3 in mind, a
console from 2006 which when it comes to specs was somewhat like a high
end spec PC from 2004, it also has severe memory restrictions that
needed to be worked around. EQ2 to this day is an unoptimised mess that
could hardly be played on hardware from these days, FF14 ran almost
perfect on the PS3.
Lots to unpack here, too...
Yoshida/SE has gone on record citing housing restrictions as being a limitation of server power. I've not found a single source where he cites PS3 as being a reason why housing is continuously limited, no matter how many times they expand/update it. PS3 limitations affect how many decorations can be placed in your yard/house, due to memory limits... which is a result of poor design/planning and resource management on his part, starting with and stemming directly from how he chose to implement housing in the first place.
Yoshida and his team knew the limitations/restrictions of the PS3. They knew how much they could throw at it, how much memory they had to play with. More poignantly, they knew what their server infrastructure was; after all, they designed it.
Regardless, they proceeded to paint themselves into a corner by going with a system that devoured those resources, leaving them in a position they've been unable to overcome since.
Sadder still, there's simply no good excuse for it.
They had numerous other examples in the genre to look at, to see ways others had successfully implemented housing in a way that was both highly functional, and - more importantly - accessible to all players, without having to use exorbitant costs as a barrier to "keep demand down".
They should have gone with Instanced housing. It's the most common implementation of housing in MMORPGs, and for very good reason - not least of all being that it pretty much guarantees that demand will never exceed availability, to the extent that a player can own *multiple* houses if they so choose (EQ2, I believe, allows up to 20).
But no, Yoshida and his team - per their own say-so "underestimated how popular housing would be" and didn't bother to plan or design for anything beyond what they *assumed* people would want.
Adding insult to injury, this is *after* they'd already had their expectations exceeded with XIV's re-launch, nevermind how popular a request housing was prior to its official announcement.
So what's the deal there? Is Yoshida and co. just perpetually pessimistic about their own product? Terminally out of touch with their own playerbase, perhaps? Really slow learners, maybe?
Even FFXI, developed for even *weaker* hardware (PS2) offered more utility and availability (one house per character, guaranteed), right out of the gate than FFXIV. And, despite the PS2's limitations, they went on to expand on it continuously over the years.
How could they do this, despite hardware, infrastructure and console limitations far more restrictive than even the PS3? Again: Instancing - and a demonstrably better grasp on the limits of their hardware and infrastructure.
You'd *think* maybe they'd have looked to see how FFXI did it, nevermind myriad other titles with similar implementations. You know, build off the knowledge and experience of those who came before you, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel and making the same mistakes.
Yoshida thought he knew better, I guess.
But let's get back to EQ2. You address, as I did, that EQ2 was an unpolished, poorly optimized game that ran poorly on even high-end hardware of the time. This is true, and I noted as much even in my previous comments. It's on record that SOE had decided to place all their technology eggs for EQ2's engine in the basket of a CPU architecture that ultimately never came to pass. It screwed them and their game over for years to come. No secret there.
Yet... Yet.... Despite that. Despite EQ2's poor performance, poor optimization and so forth.. They still managed to implement a housing system that utterly eclipses that of a MMORPG developed almost a decade later. One that allows every player *multiple* houses if they wish, and provides *far* more control over exactly how it's decorated. Items can be placed anywhere, arbitrarily, even in mid-air, if so wished. They could be rotated and scaled and arranged in creative, interesting ways. Players could own multiple homes, could place teleporters connecting all their individual houses into one huge one if they wish. And so on.
I know your intent in pointing out EQ2's poor performance, etc was meant to prove the contrary... but you've only underscored my point.
FFXIV's housing wasn't only outshined by that of EQ2, an unpolished, unoptimized dog of an engine designed over a decade ago, *despite* its problems... It was also outshined by FFXI, a MMORPG *by the very same developer*, designed to work on even *more* inferior technology and hardware.
FFXIV's housing is a shining example of how *not* to design and implement a housing system in a mainstream MMO. Unless you want to be dealing with constant limitations and restrictions, year after year, patch after patch. If that's the goal, then it's a stellar case study.
LOL! They made you work for that DK! I hope you actualy enjoy the class once you finally get your hands on it
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
hehe I still remember my first few minutes in this game...'youre not allowed to go there, youre not to go there, youre not allowed to go there"......This game is so badly on rails it isnt even funny...how people think having everything laid out for them is fun is beyond me....Until the FF series can actually create a game where we can go where we want, I am not interested.
There is also the fact that a lot of the quality of life and housing problems stemmed from the fact that the game was completely remade in only 2 and a half years (while content was still being put into 1.0 I may add). A lot of which are fixed or much better than what they were since back when 2.0 launched.
Oh boy. Where to begin.
I'll just go with a numbered list.
1) What the housing problems "stem from" has already been explained by Yoshida and at least one other FFXIV developer themselves. Your further conjecture is neither required, accurate, nor relevant.
2) The problem isn't how much time they had. The problem is they chose a poor implementation/design for it, the flaws being entirely self-evident since its release. Having more time to spend implementing a poorly designed system still leaves you with a poorly designed system.
3). ARR launched in August 2013. Housing was officially released in December 2013. They've had just shy of 4 years to make meaningful improvements to it (or just accept it was a broken system and overhaul it entirely) and they've done nothing but apply temporary band-aids. They've decided it better to continue expanding on a broken, glaringly inadequate system.
4) That they've improved on things from 1.0 was kinda the point of doing ARR in the first place. You pointing that out is about as insightful as saying "their brand-new car looks and runs way better than their old, beaten up one did". It's also irrelevant, considering personal housing was designed and implemented in ARR, and didn't exist in any form in 1.x.. And no, Inn Rooms did not function the same as personal housing... they also still exist.
Now I see why you so often stick to passive-aggressively clicking on emotes instead of writing actual replies.
To be honest that last tiem suare wrote a story worth paying attention to was FF tactics and xenogears, the rest of their rpgs have been pretty lackluster story wise.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
(Because unlike every modern mmo, FFXIV is actually tough to lvl...)
Annnndddd... that's where I stopped reading.
Replace "tough" with: as boring as watching dog poop ferment on the lawn. That about sums it up, most of ff14 was horrifically boring to me. The story kinda sucked as most squaresoft games other than ff tactics or xenogears do. But the gameplay it self is so boring.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
jrpg's are like that. its annoying i know. thats why i couldnt stand phantasy star universe online.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
jrpg's are like that. its annoying i know. thats why i couldnt stand phantasy star universe online.
Not really true. FFXIV is just poorly designed and they are going to keep it that way (confirmed for at least 5.0 by Yoshida) so they can pretty much make money off of the flaw by selling skip multiple story skip potions. For some reason, people seem to forget that FFXI existed and even though it had a lot of tedious stuff, the story missions honestly weren't one of them. When new "jobs" (classes) were added to FFXI, the only thing hindering you from unlocking it was being a minimum of 30 and getting access to the area to unlock the quest, which could be done at pretty much any level if you had help. You just couldn't progress in the story unless you were a certain level to unlock certain rewards associated with completing the expansion's story as well as certain end game areas. Even though FFXIV didn't lock RDM and SAM behind the story, they still have DRK/AST/MCH locked behind the story and people are saying "You can't just trim stuff otherwise the story wont make sense" without answering how important it is to do 3 quests which pretty much tell you to get a dagger in one zone and bring it back. Too much fluff. Trimming kill/collect questions or even lumping them into other ones wont matter. And tbh, FFXIV's story isn't THAT much better than say something like WoW and honestly wow doesn't shove their story down you throat all the time in order to progress.
They should have gone with Instanced housing. It's the most common implementation of housing in MMORPGs, and for very good reason - not least of all being that it pretty much guarantees that demand will never exceed availability, to the extent that a player can own *multiple* houses if they so choose (EQ2, I believe, allows up to 20).
Just to nitpick, since it seems that is what this thread is all about.
FFXIV housing is instanced. Heavily instanced actually, as each District contains multiple "Wards". Each ward contains, what, about 60 plots of various sizes?
There is absolutely nothing stopping S/E from adding more instances and making a nearly-unlimited amount of housing. But they are using it as a gil-sink, so to keep the value high, they need to restrict the availability.
Of course it's a server limitation. It's by design a server limitation, and one they could alleviate at any point if they chose to do so. But they are using it as a counter balance to the economy, so purchasing power is what is ultimately driving Yoshi-P's decision to add more housing plots available.
Took me a bit to get back around to this post but, having now read it, there's quite a bit to unpack here, so... Let's get to it.
I'll start with the closing statement:
"EQ2 might have 'bigger' housing but I still prefer a small diamond over a giant turd "
Well, your "smiley" of apparent self-satisfaction notwithstanding, this has a couple major problems right off the bat. You commit two sins in a single sentence. Impressive!
You are (1) creating a false dichotomy, and (2) asserting a matter of personal taste/preference as though it were one of the only two options (ie. "turd" or "diamond").
Put another way... Someone who doesn't share your opinion of EQ2 doesn't have to choose one or the other. They can get the "big and shiny diamond". Several of them, actually, if they want.
And I won't start talking about a graphics comparison, lets just say
that FF14 is one of the, if not the, best looking MMOs right now.
Say it all you like, in as many ways as you like. It's personal preference/taste. Nothing more.
Quite an unfair comparison. FF14 was built with the ps3 in mind, a
console from 2006 which when it comes to specs was somewhat like a high
end spec PC from 2004, it also has severe memory restrictions that
needed to be worked around. EQ2 to this day is an unoptimised mess that
could hardly be played on hardware from these days, FF14 ran almost
perfect on the PS3.
Lots to unpack here, too...
Yoshida/SE has gone on record citing housing restrictions as being a limitation of server power. I've not found a single source where he cites PS3 as being a reason why housing is continuously limited, no matter how many times they expand/update it. PS3 limitations affect how many decorations can be placed in your yard/house, due to memory limits... which is a result of poor design/planning and resource management on his part, starting with and stemming directly from how he chose to implement housing in the first place.
Yoshida and his team knew the limitations/restrictions of the PS3. They knew how much they could throw at it, how much memory they had to play with. More poignantly, they knew what their server infrastructure was; after all, they designed it.
Regardless, they proceeded to paint themselves into a corner by going with a system that devoured those resources, leaving them in a position they've been unable to overcome since.
Sadder still, there's simply no good excuse for it.
They had numerous other examples in the genre to look at, to see ways others had successfully implemented housing in a way that was both highly functional, and - more importantly - accessible to all players, without having to use exorbitant costs as a barrier to "keep demand down".
They should have gone with Instanced housing. It's the most common implementation of housing in MMORPGs, and for very good reason - not least of all being that it pretty much guarantees that demand will never exceed availability, to the extent that a player can own *multiple* houses if they so choose (EQ2, I believe, allows up to 20).
But no, Yoshida and his team - per their own say-so "underestimated how popular housing would be" and didn't bother to plan or design for anything beyond what they *assumed* people would want.
Adding insult to injury, this is *after* they'd already had their expectations exceeded with XIV's re-launch, nevermind how popular a request housing was prior to its official announcement.
So what's the deal there? Is Yoshida and co. just perpetually pessimistic about their own product? Terminally out of touch with their own playerbase, perhaps? Really slow learners, maybe?
Even FFXI, developed for even *weaker* hardware (PS2) offered more utility and availability (one house per character, guaranteed), right out of the gate than FFXIV. And, despite the PS2's limitations, they went on to expand on it continuously over the years.
How could they do this, despite hardware, infrastructure and console limitations far more restrictive than even the PS3? Again: Instancing - and a demonstrably better grasp on the limits of their hardware and infrastructure.
You'd *think* maybe they'd have looked to see how FFXI did it, nevermind myriad other titles with similar implementations. You know, build off the knowledge and experience of those who came before you, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel and making the same mistakes.
Yoshida thought he knew better, I guess.
But let's get back to EQ2. You address, as I did, that EQ2 was an unpolished, poorly optimized game that ran poorly on even high-end hardware of the time. This is true, and I noted as much even in my previous comments. It's on record that SOE had decided to place all their technology eggs for EQ2's engine in the basket of a CPU architecture that ultimately never came to pass. It screwed them and their game over for years to come. No secret there.
Yet... Yet.... Despite that. Despite EQ2's poor performance, poor optimization and so forth.. They still managed to implement a housing system that utterly eclipses that of a MMORPG developed almost a decade later. One that allows every player *multiple* houses if they wish, and provides *far* more control over exactly how it's decorated. Items can be placed anywhere, arbitrarily, even in mid-air, if so wished. They could be rotated and scaled and arranged in creative, interesting ways. Players could own multiple homes, could place teleporters connecting all their individual houses into one huge one if they wish. And so on.
I know your intent in pointing out EQ2's poor performance, etc was meant to prove the contrary... but you've only underscored my point.
FFXIV's housing wasn't only outshined by that of EQ2, an unpolished, unoptimized dog of an engine designed over a decade ago, *despite* its problems... It was also outshined by FFXI, a MMORPG *by the very same developer*, designed to work on even *more* inferior technology and hardware.
FFXIV's housing is a shining example of how *not* to design and implement a housing system in a mainstream MMO. Unless you want to be dealing with constant limitations and restrictions, year after year, patch after patch. If that's the goal, then it's a stellar case study.
Thanks for the elaborate response, let me clarify a few things.
The smiley was meant to show the comparison wasn't all that serious, an exaggeration so to say. I actually really like EQ2 contrary to what you might think. Graphics are a matter of taste indeed, but come on, the difference here is staggering, even subjectively.
You seem very frustrated with FF14 and I can understand that, especially compared to FF11. I'm not saying FF14 has fantastic housing btw, I do stand with my point that they had more limitations to take into consideration though. And perhaps EQ2 just had a bigger focus on housing in the first place although that is just guessing from my side.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You aren't the first person to be taken aback at the level of drudgery in the mandatory story quest design that grows with every expansion. Then add in the only solution Square has provided is, you pay them to not play their game.
I said in their forums when they introduced the jump potion idea is, we all get a free one with some sort of unique alternative for anyone who didn't want it. Something substantial like a decorated apartment or something.
short version, you are right. It's a bullshit system designed to waste time and pad the development cycle with more time than even they need.
I actually do not think Yoshida underestimated housing.
Japanese Developers look to their competition and always learn from them by incorporating elements that appeals to the culture and attitude of that geographic region.
One of the reasons why every major game incorporates some form of PvP regardless of its quality is due to the fact that no one in Asia takes your game as a serious AAA+++ MMORPG if it does not have PvP in it.
Asian Markets are all about public relations. Square-Enix is amazing at public relations. Problem is that so are every other company. They are so amazing that they can convince the world to follow and support a dead game and be allowed a chance to correct their "mistakes" and before you know it... out comes ARR and now its successful.
You can bet that when housing was designed, they tried their own system based on what happened. What they did was combine Personal Housing with Guild Housing. However, that backfired for many reasons.
One big reason was because when housing was released, many rich players scooped up as many houses as they could find so they can resell them for 3 - 10x of their worth across their characters. I remember walking around the streets and seeing for activity outside the house to find most felt abandoned to me (or houses not in use) due to players hoarding them trying to make a buck off them.
What Yoshida did not expect was the greed of the playerbase to create the housing problem and then the players who did not own housing complaining about housing in general. All Yoshida had to do was program the housing originally to be "Only 1 house to be bought per account" and be done with it.
I had my problem with FF XIV, especially after playing FF XI, but I did like the existence of culture in the game. I liked how the graphics of the game looked because Square-Enix has its style that says "This is a Square-Enix game" and personally speaking...
What I liked about FF XIV was that I was able to play the game without Rushing through it and see everything and then leave. Instead of Rushing in a 1 - 2 weeks to see the main story line, I went through the game and everything it offered back then in 4 months. I dabbled a little here and a little there and enjoyed being a white mage.
The reason I am not over-bitching about not seeing an FF XI clone was because FF XI was FF XI and FF XIV is FF XIV. Each time the industry tries to clone something exact, it loses out. I didn't seeing the story.
My big problem with FF XIV was that it catered to large guilds and most of the guilds I joined only cared about a player's activity level to get FC points, while the FC members themselves were mostly Chat-Warriors. I remember going through three major FCs and several minor ones during my stay in the game, but I could count on my fingers how many members I regularly met of each FC.
Party-Finder was far more reliable than asking anyone in any FC to form a party.
Comments
@PottedPlant22, what are the "main scenario progression" and the "ARR completion" like? It sounds like they by pass all content. What I think @Quicksand and others might be looking for is a supply of "buy pass this quest" potions. Some way to get around the content they don't like, in this case the DOING parts of quests. Is there anything like that, Where they can say get a list to check off what content they don't want?
As for me, I started on release, but I don't really remember this game at all. I didn't return for ARR. The world was small and cramped (mostly made of halls and rooms, like a Rogue Like). The cities Looked good but didn't feel all that good / interesting. I don't remember what class I played, or what quests I did, what mobs I fought, or the nature of the combat or crafting.
I started with FF6 and I have forgotten everything about this series. I'm really not trying to bad mouth it, just stating a fact as it pertains to me, YMMV. If your experience was different, then kongrats.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Exactly. Increase MSQ xp enough to where sidequests are only if you feel like it. Otherwise when the game requires 2k quests to get to the content that anyone does anymore.....no new players will stay, period.
The second option is the $25 option and that gets you to the Stormblood expansion, bypassing all storyline content through Heavensward.
They do indeed pass the content. They get all the perks, achievements, mounts, items that the storyline would give you. You also can watch the cutscenes in the inn.
You got carrot on a stick'ed (??
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Just wanted to chime in on this... I logged into EQ2 again recently to check it out and see how it's doin' (it's till doin').
While playing, I learned I'd acquired the ability to receive an entire instance of "Isle of Refuge" as my own personal housing.
Yes. An entire island.
Going through the housing on there, I found several other *HUGE* environments with a lot of variety. You can also get an entire instance of one of the old Qeynos "neighborhoods" as your own private home.
It's insane and, really, only further underscores just how absolutey terrible the limitations on FFXIV's housing system are. EQ2 is a game built on *flawed* technology (it was originally built to specifically support a CPU architecture that never took off), from ~2003... and it has a housing system that puts XIV's to shame.
But anyway... as you were..
End side note...
And I won't start talking about a graphics comparison, lets just say that FF14 is one of the, if not the, best looking MMOs right now.
EQ2 might have 'bigger' housing but I still prefer a small diamond over a giant turd
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I'll start with the closing statement:
You are (1) creating a false dichotomy, and (2) asserting a matter of personal taste/preference as though it were one of the only two options (ie. "turd" or "diamond").
Put another way... Someone who doesn't share your opinion of EQ2 doesn't have to choose one or the other. They can get the "big and shiny diamond". Several of them, actually, if they want.
Say it all you like, in as many ways as you like. It's personal preference/taste. Nothing more.
Yoshida/SE has gone on record citing housing restrictions as being a limitation of server power. I've not found a single source where he cites PS3 as being a reason why housing is continuously limited, no matter how many times they expand/update it. PS3 limitations affect how many decorations can be placed in your yard/house, due to memory limits... which is a result of poor design/planning and resource management on his part, starting with and stemming directly from how he chose to implement housing in the first place.
Yoshida and his team knew the limitations/restrictions of the PS3. They knew how much they could throw at it, how much memory they had to play with. More poignantly, they knew what their server infrastructure was; after all, they designed it.
Regardless, they proceeded to paint themselves into a corner by going with a system that devoured those resources, leaving them in a position they've been unable to overcome since.
Sadder still, there's simply no good excuse for it.
They had numerous other examples in the genre to look at, to see ways others had successfully implemented housing in a way that was both highly functional, and - more importantly - accessible to all players, without having to use exorbitant costs as a barrier to "keep demand down".
They should have gone with Instanced housing. It's the most common implementation of housing in MMORPGs, and for very good reason - not least of all being that it pretty much guarantees that demand will never exceed availability, to the extent that a player can own *multiple* houses if they so choose (EQ2, I believe, allows up to 20).
But no, Yoshida and his team - per their own say-so "underestimated how popular housing would be" and didn't bother to plan or design for anything beyond what they *assumed* people would want.
Adding insult to injury, this is *after* they'd already had their expectations exceeded with XIV's re-launch, nevermind how popular a request housing was prior to its official announcement.
So what's the deal there? Is Yoshida and co. just perpetually pessimistic about their own product? Terminally out of touch with their own playerbase, perhaps? Really slow learners, maybe?
Even FFXI, developed for even *weaker* hardware (PS2) offered more utility and availability (one house per character, guaranteed), right out of the gate than FFXIV. And, despite the PS2's limitations, they went on to expand on it continuously over the years.
How could they do this, despite hardware, infrastructure and console limitations far more restrictive than even the PS3? Again: Instancing - and a demonstrably better grasp on the limits of their hardware and infrastructure.
You'd *think* maybe they'd have looked to see how FFXI did it, nevermind myriad other titles with similar implementations. You know, build off the knowledge and experience of those who came before you, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel and making the same mistakes.
Yoshida thought he knew better, I guess.
But let's get back to EQ2. You address, as I did, that EQ2 was an unpolished, poorly optimized game that ran poorly on even high-end hardware of the time. This is true, and I noted as much even in my previous comments. It's on record that SOE had decided to place all their technology eggs for EQ2's engine in the basket of a CPU architecture that ultimately never came to pass. It screwed them and their game over for years to come. No secret there.
Yet... Yet.... Despite that. Despite EQ2's poor performance, poor optimization and so forth.. They still managed to implement a housing system that utterly eclipses that of a MMORPG developed almost a decade later. One that allows every player *multiple* houses if they wish, and provides *far* more control over exactly how it's decorated. Items can be placed anywhere, arbitrarily, even in mid-air, if so wished. They could be rotated and scaled and arranged in creative, interesting ways. Players could own multiple homes, could place teleporters connecting all their individual houses into one huge one if they wish. And so on.
I know your intent in pointing out EQ2's poor performance, etc was meant to prove the contrary... but you've only underscored my point.
FFXIV's housing wasn't only outshined by that of EQ2, an unpolished, unoptimized dog of an engine designed over a decade ago, *despite* its problems... It was also outshined by FFXI, a MMORPG *by the very same developer*, designed to work on even *more* inferior technology and hardware.
FFXIV's housing is a shining example of how *not* to design and implement a housing system in a mainstream MMO. Unless you want to be dealing with constant limitations and restrictions, year after year, patch after patch. If that's the goal, then it's a stellar case study.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I'll just go with a numbered list.
1) What the housing problems "stem from" has already been explained by Yoshida and at least one other FFXIV developer themselves. Your further conjecture is neither required, accurate, nor relevant.
2) The problem isn't how much time they had. The problem is they chose a poor implementation/design for it, the flaws being entirely self-evident since its release. Having more time to spend implementing a poorly designed system still leaves you with a poorly designed system.
3). ARR launched in August 2013. Housing was officially released in December 2013. They've had just shy of 4 years to make meaningful improvements to it (or just accept it was a broken system and overhaul it entirely) and they've done nothing but apply temporary band-aids. They've decided it better to continue expanding on a broken, glaringly inadequate system.
4) That they've improved on things from 1.0 was kinda the point of doing ARR in the first place. You pointing that out is about as insightful as saying "their brand-new car looks and runs way better than their old, beaten up one did". It's also irrelevant, considering personal housing was designed and implemented in ARR, and didn't exist in any form in 1.x.. And no, Inn Rooms did not function the same as personal housing... they also still exist.
Now I see why you so often stick to passive-aggressively clicking on emotes instead of writing actual replies.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
FFXIV housing is instanced. Heavily instanced actually, as each District contains multiple "Wards". Each ward contains, what, about 60 plots of various sizes?
There is absolutely nothing stopping S/E from adding more instances and making a nearly-unlimited amount of housing. But they are using it as a gil-sink, so to keep the value high, they need to restrict the availability.
Of course it's a server limitation. It's by design a server limitation, and one they could alleviate at any point if they chose to do so. But they are using it as a counter balance to the economy, so purchasing power is what is ultimately driving Yoshi-P's decision to add more housing plots available.
The smiley was meant to show the comparison wasn't all that serious, an exaggeration so to say.
I actually really like EQ2 contrary to what you might think.
Graphics are a matter of taste indeed, but come on, the difference here is staggering, even subjectively.
You seem very frustrated with FF14 and I can understand that, especially compared to FF11. I'm not saying FF14 has fantastic housing btw, I do stand with my point that they had more limitations to take into consideration though. And perhaps EQ2 just had a bigger focus on housing in the first place although that is just guessing from my side.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I said in their forums when they introduced the jump potion idea is, we all get a free one with some sort of unique alternative for anyone who didn't want it. Something substantial like a decorated apartment or something.
short version, you are right. It's a bullshit system designed to waste time and pad the development cycle with more time than even they need.
Japanese Developers look to their competition and always learn from them by incorporating elements that appeals to the culture and attitude of that geographic region.
One of the reasons why every major game incorporates some form of PvP regardless of its quality is due to the fact that no one in Asia takes your game as a serious AAA+++ MMORPG if it does not have PvP in it.
Asian Markets are all about public relations. Square-Enix is amazing at public relations. Problem is that so are every other company. They are so amazing that they can convince the world to follow and support a dead game and be allowed a chance to correct their "mistakes" and before you know it... out comes ARR and now its successful.
You can bet that when housing was designed, they tried their own system based on what happened. What they did was combine Personal Housing with Guild Housing. However, that backfired for many reasons.
One big reason was because when housing was released, many rich players scooped up as many houses as they could find so they can resell them for 3 - 10x of their worth across their characters. I remember walking around the streets and seeing for activity outside the house to find most felt abandoned to me (or houses not in use) due to players hoarding them trying to make a buck off them.
What Yoshida did not expect was the greed of the playerbase to create the housing problem and then the players who did not own housing complaining about housing in general. All Yoshida had to do was program the housing originally to be "Only 1 house to be bought per account" and be done with it.
I had my problem with FF XIV, especially after playing FF XI, but I did like the existence of culture in the game. I liked how the graphics of the game looked because Square-Enix has its style that says "This is a Square-Enix game" and personally speaking...
What I liked about FF XIV was that I was able to play the game without Rushing through it and see everything and then leave. Instead of Rushing in a 1 - 2 weeks to see the main story line, I went through the game and everything it offered back then in 4 months. I dabbled a little here and a little there and enjoyed being a white mage.
The reason I am not over-bitching about not seeing an FF XI clone was because FF XI was FF XI and FF XIV is FF XIV. Each time the industry tries to clone something exact, it loses out. I didn't seeing the story.
My big problem with FF XIV was that it catered to large guilds and most of the guilds I joined only cared about a player's activity level to get FC points, while the FC members themselves were mostly Chat-Warriors. I remember going through three major FCs and several minor ones during my stay in the game, but I could count on my fingers how many members I regularly met of each FC.
Party-Finder was far more reliable than asking anyone in any FC to form a party.