Bungie to Remove Gauntlet that Resembles Hate Group Symbol - Destiny 2 - MMORPG.com

goobsnews · September 2017

FlyByKnight said:

It's fun to watch all these wannabe alt-right 4chan troll knobbers try to normalize KKK/Nazis, and their symbols and stuff only to say "ITS TROLLING BRO!" from the comfort of their PC gaming chairs, behind their firewalls and VPNs. They always seem so emboldened, but they aren't. Just passive aggressive weenies who stand for something just enough that they can hop back on the fence when a fight is about to happen.

Trolling, hate baiting or whatever the fuck you clowns call it doesn't make you centrist or outside a conflict. It means you're a coward who uses "just kidding" to escape the consequences of your true stance. Talk about entitlement, must be fun to be able to "play" like that.

We get it, you're a tough guy.

Also lol at the irony of you doing what you claim others are. Liberal logic at it's finest.

WalkinGlenn · September 2017

FlyByKnight said:

It's fun to watch all these wannabe alt-right 4chan troll knobbers try to normalize KKK/Nazis, and their symbols and stuff only to say "ITS TROLLING BRO!" from the comfort of their PC gaming chairs, behind their firewalls and VPNs. They always seem so emboldened, but they aren't. Just passive aggressive weenies who stand for something just enough that they can hop back on the fence when a fight is about to happen.

Trolling, hate baiting or whatever the fuck you clowns call it doesn't make you centrist or outside a conflict. It means you're a coward who uses "just kidding" to escape the consequences of your true stance. Talk about entitlement, must be fun to be able to "play" like that.

Yeah KEK is totally a white ppwer thing. President Tyrone says otherwise.

Xxxusernametakenxxx · September 2017

FlyByKnight said:

It's fun to watch all these wannabe alt-right 4chan troll knobbers try to normalize KKK/Nazis, and their symbols and stuff only to say "ITS TROLLING BRO!" from the comfort of their PC gaming chairs, behind their firewalls and VPNs. They always seem so emboldened, but they aren't. Just passive aggressive weenies who stand for something just enough that they can hop back on the fence when a fight is about to happen.

Trolling, hate baiting or whatever the fuck you clowns call it doesn't make you centrist or outside a conflict. It means you're a coward who uses "just kidding" to escape the consequences of your true stance. Talk about entitlement, must be fun to be able to "play" like that.

And this class is what TRIGGERED looks like.

SBFord · September 2017

OK folks -- while the general topic here revolves around a polarizing issue that is at least partially based on a particular political agenda, how about if we take the heat down a little bit to bring the discussion back around to the game itself and perhaps whether or not companies should be held accountable for the probable misinterpretation of a particular item in game.

What, if anything, should Bungie have done?
What are the repercussions of them removing the item?
What would be the repercussions of them not removing the item?
How should they answer those making the claim that the gauntlets are representative of something polarizing and vice versa?
How should gaming companies deal with issues like this?

By keeping the discussion aimed more at questions like these, we can reduce the rhetoric on both sides and keep within the realm of the overall forum rules that frown on politics.

So, to keep the thread open, dial it back please. @MikeB

Leiloni · September 2017

Bungie should have said, "Hey here's why we made this design, we thought it was cool cause of x, y, z reasons. Please don't misinterpret our work and associate it with hate groups we don't agree with. If you spread this misinformation again we'll ban you from our forums" or some such thing. Then they can shut it down and get on with their day.

Bungie made it and only Bungie gets to decide what it means for the game.

I swear the more I say Bungie in my head it starts to sound really weird.

Forgrimm · September 2017

Strange that they call it a gauntlet, when it's just a regular shirt sleeve. A gauntlet generally covers the forearm to the hand.

Xxxusernametakenxxx · September 2017

SBFord said:

OK folks -- while the general topic here revolves around a polarizing issue that is at least partially based on a particular political agenda, how about if we take the heat down a little bit to bring the discussion back around to the game itself and perhaps whether or not companies should be held accountable for the probable misinterpretation of a particular item in game.

What, if anything, should Bungie have done?
Nothing giving into the ridiculous crying that goes on today on the internet will never fix the behavior
What are the repercussions of them removing the item?
They will continue to have people looking for something to get offended by and demanding that something be removed
What would be the repercussions of them not removing the item?
Absolutely nothing. They could have simply made a little adjustment to the item and no one would have noticed and this discussion would not be happening
How should they answer those making the claim that the gauntlets are representative of something polarizing and vice versa?
Say they disagree thsts OK to do today. Sure those looking for attention and something to be offended by will still cry but it's time people start standing up to these SJW.
How should gaming companies deal with issues like this?
see above comments

By keeping the discussion aimed more at questions like these, we can reduce the rhetoric on both sides and keep within the realm of the overall forum rules that frown on politics.

So, to keep the thread open, dial it back please. @MikeB

sayuu · September 2017

klash2def said:

@sayuu stop associating BLM with people who want to kill police. That's bullshit and you know it is.. again as I keep saying people will do anything to dismantle BLM because its a group of minorities actually fighting for themselves the right way.

People looting, attacking police, has nothing to do with BLM. Its stupid people who are taking advantage of a situation for their own gain. There are police officers that fully support the BLM movement. Stop this narrative of BLM vs Police.

Again people are trying to dismantle a movement by spreading lies and false information about it.. oldest trick in the book but apparently it still works..

EDIT: They are not asking for the death of police, they are asking for Police Reform. 2 Diff things. Since so many were losing their life to Police Brutality and the only answer Police would give afterwards is "I was scared."

the what happened in Charlotte had nothing to do with Neo nazis and racism. . .it was just one stupid person doing a stupid thing. . .the Pendulum swings both ways. . .

also:
when the leaders of a group call for the death of police in their manifestos, speeches, and social media posts then yeah I equate it to that group. . .

and no they're asking for death, like how a few days before the incident in New York where 2 cops were ambushed and killed the BLM march were chanting "What do we want? dead cops! When do we want it? NOW!" in 2014

or how about in 2016 where BLM chanted the same slogan outside the hospital of a officer that was fighting for his life on the operating table after he and 2 others were ambushed in Baton Rouge, Nothing to do with BLM?

also:

"So many losing their lives to police brutality"

Do you want me to quote relevant stats on this? you won't like it if I do. . .

EDIT sorry @SBFord i was replying before I saw your post about dialing back the rhetoric. . .

klash2def · September 2017

Aeander said:

klash2def said:

Your train of thought too about how "If you ignore bad things it goes away" is a problem. To actually get rid of issues like Hate you must face it head on, not ignore it and act like it does not exist. People who act like its not real are part of the problem.

No, mate. No. Hate groups become passe when they are ignored. That is reality. That is how you deal with bigotry. You push it aside and let it become irrelevant, as all bad ideas eventually become.

To this, you might say "oh, but the Civil Rights movement was a thing and it was important." Yes, yet it was. But here's the thing. The Civil Rights movement effectively mirrored our situation today through its two most prominent (and polar opposite) leaders - Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X. Guess which one of these was actually successful and correct? Hint - we now name every other school and street after the guy.

Martin Luther King was successful entirely because his objective was to gain equal coexistence for oppressed minorities. He wasn't a firebrand or a radical like his counterpart. His ideas won out in the end entirely because they sought to establish a new normal, which the general public eventually saw as being rightfully normal. Yes, you need to make a peaceful stand to achieve that legal equality, but once that legal equality has been achieved, the objective shifts and society must re-normalize. World War II and the civil rights movement established the obvious - that Nazism is bad. We then ostracized these groups to the fringes of our society where they belong.

Now, we've done the opposite. We've decided to point fingers at an irrelevant, worthless group of human beings and say "hey, look at how shit these people are." Whether they deserve this or not (which they obviously do) is irrelevant. What is relevant is that a spotlight has been shone onto these people. A reminder has been shoved into the modern discourse that bigotry is a thing. And after roughly half a decade or so of this spotlight being shown, with a corresponding rise in Malcolm X-like "anti-white" ideology, we now have a rise in the very far-right hate groups that we have spent decades pushing aside and ignoring. Except now, the white supremacists get to call themselves a counter culture, and that's a problem. They should not be a counter culture, but rather an insignificant speck.

Of course, I'm sure you'll disagree. That's fine. But my point here is a simple one. By sticking with the peaceful coexistence and normalcy that MLK helped to establish, we have had decades of progress. It is only now - by refusing to just "ignore the bad things until they go away" that we have a racist, science-denying reality tv show host in a position of power. Wonderful, right? Decades of social and scientific progress spat on in a single moment because someone had to remind the world that Nazis are a thing that still exists.

I understand your point totally.. but let me leave you with this:

MLK as great a man as he was, did not achieve his goal of equality. If he did we would not be having this conversation. Equality will never exist in this country because this country was not built on equality. When they wrote we the people they were not talking about people who were not white, they couldn't have been because Natives were "Savages" and Slaves were "Dogs". I think it is a beautiful thing that we as a Nation strive for that Equality but there will always be people who want it how it used to be..

The reason I do not believe we can Ignore these things is because these things snowball into bigger issues. Its serious.. its not like ignoring a bad vibe and hopefully it goes away.. no this is a group of people emboldened by a person in office who subscribes to their behavior. It becomes a problem very quickly. I agree with you about giving them a platform, allowing them to Sub Culture, but its not new. Its been around they are just able to speak openly now more than ever because they believe they have a President on their side.

I say this as a 30 something black man that has to explain to his 7 year old son why he has to be careful of how he acts and speaks around police. We are not equal and its sad. We have made progress yes.. absolutely but we are not there yet. We must continue striving for it and yes that means calling out any bullshit sub culture like (NEO-NAZI) that gets traction, even if it means more people find out, we must let them know that America isnt about that and we will not be taken 60 years backwards by Archaic ways of thinking.

SBFord · September 2017

@sayuu Please dial it back. See my post above to circle back to the topic and to move away from politics.

sayuu · September 2017

SBFord said:

@sayuu Please dial it back. See my post above to circle back to the topic and to move away from politics.

i will, I saw your post after I made my last one.

Greyhaven · September 2017

I'm pretty sure whoever did this, did so so because of the large number of filters video game developers have o use these days.

Everyone is offended always about everything.

I think what all of this boils down to is censorship. We have large amounts of millennials that believe the 1st amendment isn't such a great thing and neither is the constitution of the united states, and anyone who denies that really needs to cruise by any ANTIFA Facebook page, or do a bit of honest fact checking of Feminist Frequency.

The metric for what is considered racist or fascist has truly become nebulous, the goal post are moved until it begins to appear that 1984 is being used as an instruction manual instead of a cautionary tale.

Expect more pushback.

Wizardry · September 2017

So unintentional eh?Why did they not claim what that actually was since it looks to be EXACTLY the use of Kek and same colors.
So what was that symbol and why the color choice?Personally i have no idea at all why the use of the 3 letters KEK and the OBVIOUS use of a green background when the other color is Blue.That green sleeve stands out big time,it does not even look to be a good color choice to match the outfit,so to me it looks quite obvious there was intent.

As well the lines in the middle,yep VERY obvious.Yet again the use of a business "Bungie"this is not an entire Bungie staff thing,this is the work of 1/2 maybe 3 people but the Bungie PR ..staff have to be the ones to represent and cover up for employee mistakes.

I love how their PR team immediately starts with the political speech on how they respect everyone at all times bla bla yeah whatever.

Rockard · September 2017

klash2def said:

Rockard said:

White lives matter is racist,as is black lives matter,as in both those phrases the separative quality between people is their skin colour.
Human lives matter,is not racist.
The racist behaviour of others is not an excuse for one to behave like a racist.
Now I'm not an expert on matters of sociology,but the way I see it and as far as the American case is concerned,racism is a far deeper problem than what many seem to understand,because it, ironically,transcends race and seems to be a quality found throughout the various ethnic groups in the US.

Another bs narrative.. this is amazing. You do realize that somebody saying "Black Lives Matters" does not mean OTHER LIVES dont matter.. Its saying "Black Lives Matter, stop killing us." That's what its saying. Its not racist to say Black Lives Matter. Please tell me what is racist about that..

If your home was on fire.. would you like the firemen to check on ALL THE HOMES before they got to yours? I mean All HOMES MATTER right? So in your time of need, would you be wrong for saying "HEY MY HOME MATTERS HELP ME! I'M GOING TO DIE!" No you would not.

That does not mean you don't care about the other homes, but your home is the home on fire. Its urgent.

"White Lives Matter" is racist because its literally trying to take power out of the BLM movement by using its own term against them. White people are not being killed at a alarming rate in this country..they are not dealing with a major injustice because of their skin color...they aren't dealing with anything the average American isnt.

The people who shout "White Lives Matter" are panicking because of the Dispossession of White people in general. They feel like they are losing something that used to be theirs. The Country.

BLM is nothing close to saying White Lives Matter, stop trying to make them the same. One is a cry from a race of people because of current injustices done to them, the other is not.

White Lives Matter is hate. Those racist at those rallies (BTW the Virginia one wasnt the first) are saying "WLM, YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US" that sounds like the fear of being dispossessed to me.

Again, if your home was on fire, how would you feel if the fire dept said hey ALL HOMES MATTER we gotta check the other homes first. Meanwhile your house is the only one engulfed in flames.

The facts do not support the BLM rhetoric.
There are no laws in the US that discriminate citizens according to their ethnicity,and inter African American community violence claims more lives of blacks in the US,than the obviously badly trained,inadequate,and extremely violent police forces you have there.
I see the BLM movement as a platform for black supremacists and racists,that feeds on the social injustices that do exist,but have nothing to do with one's colour.

sayuu · September 2017

Greyhaven said:

I'm pretty sure whoever did this, did so so because of the large number of filters video game developers have o use these days.

Everyone is offended always about everything.

I think what all of this boils down to is censorship. We have large amounts of millennials that believe the 1st amendment isn't such a great thing and neither is the constitution of the united states, and anyone who denies that really needs to cruise by any ANTIFA Facebook page, or do a bit of honest fact checking of Feminist Frequency.

The metric for what is considered racist or fascist has truly become nebulous, the goal post are moved until it begins to appear that 1984 is being used as an instruction manual instead of a cautionary tale.

Expect more pushback.

except this isn't censorship or a 1st amendment issue.

Unless Bungie is really a secret government agency whose mandate is to get you to pay money to play mediocre games. . .

Honestly this is just a rehash of #Tracerbuttgate 2016

Wizardry · September 2017

Give their team enough time they will eventually make some speech about it's origin and intent and how it is from past Pandarin Lore or some outrageous claim like that.I know this is not about Pandarin but THAT timing was impeccable,their PR teams lie and BS right to no end.

The part i love are all these defensive people,if it is FAKE or nothing to see here,then why is Bungie removing it?Grabs popcorn as he expects more fanbois to come up with yet more BS defensive speeches.

klash2def · September 2017

sayuu said:

klash2def said:

@sayuu stop associating BLM with people who want to kill police. That's bullshit and you know it is.. again as I keep saying people will do anything to dismantle BLM because its a group of minorities actually fighting for themselves the right way.

People looting, attacking police, has nothing to do with BLM. Its stupid people who are taking advantage of a situation for their own gain. There are police officers that fully support the BLM movement. Stop this narrative of BLM vs Police.

Again people are trying to dismantle a movement by spreading lies and false information about it.. oldest trick in the book but apparently it still works..

EDIT: They are not asking for the death of police, they are asking for Police Reform. 2 Diff things. Since so many were losing their life to Police Brutality and the only answer Police would give afterwards is "I was scared."

the what happened in Charlotte had nothing to do with Neo nazis and racism. . .it was just one stupid person doing a stupid thing. . .the Pendulum swings both ways. . .

also:
when the leaders of a group call for the death of police in their manifestos, speeches, and social media posts then yeah I equate it to that group. . .

and no they're asking for death, like how a few days before the incident in New York where 2 cops were ambushed and killed the BLM march were chanting "What do we want? dead cops! When do we want it? NOW!" in 2014

or how about in 2016 where BLM chanted the same slogan outside the hospital of a officer that was fighting for his life on the operating table after he and 2 others were ambushed in Baton Rouge, Nothing to do with BLM?

also:

"So many losing their lives to police brutality"

Do you want me to quote relevant stats on this? you won't like it if I do. . .

You continue to not make valid points. There is no both sides, both ways. Its clear what that rally was. You know it just like I do. Stop being a 4chan hipster.

BLM has nothing to do with killing cops and is about Police Reform more than anything else.

Believe whatever rumor you want.. Call it want you want, I really dont care, I know what it means for me and my family. You can try to dismantle it all you want or ignore the facts by believing in bullshit.. please link me to a BLM MARCH where EVERYONE is saying "we want dead cops". Please show me that, I will wait. I dont know if what you say is true or not, but why do You keep bunching in all this bullshit with BLM? You seem to think any group of black protesters and looters are BLM. If you saw a group of black people saying "WE WANT DEAD POLICE" and looting a store then guess what they arent BLM..stop trying to build that narrative. those people dont care about BLM and have their own motives. What you are saying, Its just like saying all Muslims want to blow up America. Its racist and lacking context. Some Muslims are from America and Love it here. I think you have a issue in general with black people speaking up for themselves in that manner and if you do oh well I cant help you. Im not going to explain to you a person who isnt black what BLM means and stands for and how positive it is, because you clearly dont want to understand it, you want it to be something negative for your own reason.

The fact that you continue to boil down an entire positive movement to looting and attacking police lets me know all I need to know about you.

Lets not talk about stats. I can show you stats you wouldn't believe. Last year alone more than 250+ black people killed by police. Most of the situations unarmed and that's a problem.

I'm getting tired of this conversation because its like talking to a brick wall. Believe whatever rumors you want to believe. I will always stand for whats right.

wrong is wrong.

SlyLoK · September 2017

BillMurphy said:

I never would have guessed that. But I also didn't know that KEK got turned into a hate symbol. Wasn't it a WoW thing? The other faction typing LOL showed as KEK.

I am pretty sure it started with DAoC.

Anyway. Some people will find offense with anything... Even searching for stuff to pick on.

klash2def · September 2017

Rockard said:

klash2def said:

Rockard said:

White lives matter is racist,as is black lives matter,as in both those phrases the separative quality between people is their skin colour.
Human lives matter,is not racist.
The racist behaviour of others is not an excuse for one to behave like a racist.
Now I'm not an expert on matters of sociology,but the way I see it and as far as the American case is concerned,racism is a far deeper problem than what many seem to understand,because it, ironically,transcends race and seems to be a quality found throughout the various ethnic groups in the US.

Another bs narrative.. this is amazing. You do realize that somebody saying "Black Lives Matters" does not mean OTHER LIVES dont matter.. Its saying "Black Lives Matter, stop killing us." That's what its saying. Its not racist to say Black Lives Matter. Please tell me what is racist about that..

If your home was on fire.. would you like the firemen to check on ALL THE HOMES before they got to yours? I mean All HOMES MATTER right? So in your time of need, would you be wrong for saying "HEY MY HOME MATTERS HELP ME! I'M GOING TO DIE!" No you would not.

That does not mean you don't care about the other homes, but your home is the home on fire. Its urgent.

"White Lives Matter" is racist because its literally trying to take power out of the BLM movement by using its own term against them. White people are not being killed at a alarming rate in this country..they are not dealing with a major injustice because of their skin color...they aren't dealing with anything the average American isnt.

The people who shout "White Lives Matter" are panicking because of the Dispossession of White people in general. They feel like they are losing something that used to be theirs. The Country.

BLM is nothing close to saying White Lives Matter, stop trying to make them the same. One is a cry from a race of people because of current injustices done to them, the other is not.

White Lives Matter is hate. Those racist at those rallies (BTW the Virginia one wasnt the first) are saying "WLM, YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US" that sounds like the fear of being dispossessed to me.

Again, if your home was on fire, how would you feel if the fire dept said hey ALL HOMES MATTER we gotta check the other homes first. Meanwhile your house is the only one engulfed in flames.

The facts do not support the BLM rhetoric.
There are no laws in the US that discriminate citizens according to their ethnicity,and inter African American community violence claims more lives of blacks in the US,than the obviously badly trained,inadequate,and extremely violent police forces you have there.
I see the BLM movement as a platform for black supremacists and racists,that feeds on the social injustices that do exist,but have nothing to do with one's colour.

There is so much wrong with your post.. please dont speak on a subject you dont fully understand. Thanks.

FlyByKnight · September 2017

I'm definitely gonna get banned in this thread.

sayuu · September 2017

Wizardry said:

Give their team enough time they will eventually make some speech about it's origin and intent and how it is from past Pandarin Lore or some outrageous claim like that.I know this is not about Pandarin but THAT timing was impeccable,their PR teams lie and BS right to no end.

The part i love are all these defensive people,if it is FAKE or nothing to see here,then why is Bungie removing it?Grabs popcorn as he expects more fanbois to come up with yet more BS defensive speeches.

they are removing it because of the feelings of some that believe a game where you slaughter masses of aliens for their stuff should be a safe place for everyone. . .except the aliens that you kill en masse, those guys are buttholes

Slapshot1188 · September 2017

The ultimate Goonsquad joke...

Unbelievable how sad our society has become.

There re is true evil out in the world... but our culture is killing our ability to identify it and fight it. We are going to "safe-space" ourselves into oblivion.

TalulaRose · September 2017

Leiloni said:

SBFord said:

I dunno. It's close enough not to want to have in the game afaic. On a different color, maybe nobody would have noticed or cared but better just to get rid of it to kill the conversation before it rages out of control the way these things always do. The fact that every gaming news outlet is reporting it says all you need to know.

I think I've heard of this thing before but I don't think it was considered a hate symbol until recently. I think people are just being overly sensitive because I guess they're saying people in Charlottesville had the flag? Honestly that doesn't mean anything. If those protesters had an American Flag they'd start saying that was a hate symbol just because one person in a hate group had it.

I'm just tired of all the name calling, hate, labeling, and divisiveness. I think it's far more divisive to start calling random years old meme's "hate symbols" and banning them. It'd be much better to just ignore stuff like this that is honestly completely minor and unimportant. Besides if you really think a symbol truly has power, the best way to get rid of that power is to not make a big deal out of it and ignore it. Things have no power if nobody pays attention to them.

To other people, the ones outside of the USA......some see the US flag as a hate symbol. Sorry to break it to you....its just reality saying hi.

Greyhaven · September 2017

klash2def said:

Rockard said:

klash2def said:

Rockard said:

White lives matter is racist,as is black lives matter,as in both those phrases the separative quality between people is their skin colour.
Human lives matter,is not racist.
The racist behaviour of others is not an excuse for one to behave like a racist.
Now I'm not an expert on matters of sociology,but the way I see it and as far as the American case is concerned,racism is a far deeper problem than what many seem to understand,because it, ironically,transcends race and seems to be a quality found throughout the various ethnic groups in the US.

Another bs narrative.. this is amazing. You do realize that somebody saying "Black Lives Matters" does not mean OTHER LIVES dont matter.. Its saying "Black Lives Matter, stop killing us." That's what its saying. Its not racist to say Black Lives Matter. Please tell me what is racist about that..

If your home was on fire.. would you like the firemen to check on ALL THE HOMES before they got to yours? I mean All HOMES MATTER right? So in your time of need, would you be wrong for saying "HEY MY HOME MATTERS HELP ME! I'M GOING TO DIE!" No you would not.

That does not mean you don't care about the other homes, but your home is the home on fire. Its urgent.

"White Lives Matter" is racist because its literally trying to take power out of the BLM movement by using its own term against them. White people are not being killed at a alarming rate in this country..they are not dealing with a major injustice because of their skin color...they aren't dealing with anything the average American isnt.

The people who shout "White Lives Matter" are panicking because of the Dispossession of White people in general. They feel like they are losing something that used to be theirs. The Country.

BLM is nothing close to saying White Lives Matter, stop trying to make them the same. One is a cry from a race of people because of current injustices done to them, the other is not.

White Lives Matter is hate. Those racist at those rallies (BTW the Virginia one wasnt the first) are saying "WLM, YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US" that sounds like the fear of being dispossessed to me.

Again, if your home was on fire, how would you feel if the fire dept said hey ALL HOMES MATTER we gotta check the other homes first. Meanwhile your house is the only one engulfed in flames.

The facts do not support the BLM rhetoric.
There are no laws in the US that discriminate citizens according to their ethnicity,and inter African American community violence claims more lives of blacks in the US,than the obviously badly trained,inadequate,and extremely violent police forces you have there.
I see the BLM movement as a platform for black supremacists and racists,that feeds on the social injustices that do exist,but have nothing to do with one's colour.

There is so much wrong with your post.. please dont speak on a subject you dont fully understand. Thanks.

Ummm It's okay to disagree with someone it's not okay to to say they can't speak.

last time I checked he was following the forum rules...maybe you should leave modding to mods?

sayuu · September 2017

@klash2def

I was asked to stop politicizing and I agreed to, so sadly I cannot reply.

Please do not misconstrue this as a victory on your part.

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