Max Bacon makes strong points but the hate for SC is so much they just ignore common sense and logic. Its like the anti SC goons dont care if what they are doing is right or wrong, they just want SC to burn so they can appear correct in going against SC and inflate their ego even more. I really want to thank you MaxBacon for taking the time to AID against the smear campaigns. I dont ever post here but every time I read your posts I can tell you take tons of time and research to create a well thought out post, and I had to post today to say thank you.
I have had my doubts about SC and I have my dreams, you help keep the dreams CIG promised alive, since you make it easy to find such great details during such despicable times where people go as far to create fraudulent refund conspiracies. I look forward to reading your future posts where you obviously obliterate the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing.
CR/SC is fulfilling that last sentence all by themselves...lol
If you are quoting my last sentence you are saying this, CR/SC is obviously obliterating the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing. Are you referring to when they smashed the fraudulent refund claim? Naw I think you wanted to make a witty statement using my own words against me but failed miserably.
Max Bacon makes strong points but the hate for SC is so much they just ignore common sense and logic. Its like the anti SC goons dont care if what they are doing is right or wrong, they just want SC to burn so they can appear correct in going against SC and inflate their ego even more. I really want to thank you MaxBacon for taking the time to AID against the smear campaigns. I dont ever post here but every time I read your posts I can tell you take tons of time and research to create a well thought out post, and I had to post today to say thank you.
I have had my doubts about SC and I have my dreams, you help keep the dreams CIG promised alive, since you make it easy to find such great details during such despicable times where people go as far to create fraudulent refund conspiracies. I look forward to reading your future posts where you obviously obliterate the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing.
CR/SC is fulfilling that last sentence all by themselves...lol
If you are quoting my last sentence you are saying this, CR/SC is obviously obliterating the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing. Are you referring to when they smashed the fraudulent refund claim? Naw I think you wanted to make a witty statement using my own words against me but failed miserably.
Max Bacon makes I really want to thank you MaxBacon I look forward to reading your future posts
P.S. To the people who say folks like this are paid to slander Star Citizen, who benefits the most from the slander? Is there some rival kickstarter space game coming out? Makes for a great movie though...
Quoting Queen: "Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?"
What's the benefit you ask? Do they want to feel important for unmasking some great conspiracy that doesn't exist? Whatever it is, it shows no lack of motivation.
I don't follow.
I'm asking if people are getting paid to slander SC (I'm not saying they are or aren't) who is the beneficiary? Who would pay and why?
Trolling both sides of the argument might have been enough motivation for somebody because watching you guys go Belko Experiment on each other can be hilarious at times.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
If people are really going this far to fabricate Star Citizen looking shaky (when there's more than enough real info available) then they're 10x worse than the people I refer to as Citizentologists. All a stunt like this does is substantiate the claims of conspiracy from the fringe backers.
Now I need a funny name to classify the dummies who did this. Stay tuned.
P.S. To the people who say folks like this are paid to slander Star Citizen, who benefits the most from the slander? Is there some rival kickstarter space game coming out? Makes for a great movie though...
That definitely looks like a movie that Harrison Ford and Gary Oldman immediately regretted being a part of.
Harrison Ford shaved his head for the role. He definitely regretted it WAY more. LOL.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Max Bacon makes strong points but the hate for SC is so much they just ignore common sense and logic. Its like the anti SC goons dont care if what they are doing is right or wrong, they just want SC to burn so they can appear correct in going against SC and inflate their ego even more. I really want to thank you MaxBacon for taking the time to AID against the smear campaigns. I dont ever post here but every time I read your posts I can tell you take tons of time and research to create a well thought out post, and I had to post today to say thank you.
I have had my doubts about SC and I have my dreams, you help keep the dreams CIG promised alive, since you make it easy to find such great details during such despicable times where people go as far to create fraudulent refund conspiracies. I look forward to reading your future posts where you obviously obliterate the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing.
CR/SC is fulfilling that last sentence all by themselves...lol
If you are quoting my last sentence you are saying this, CR/SC is obviously obliterating the pessimistic hopeful bunch that will grab any thread they can to cause SC to lose funding in hopes of the game never completing. Are you referring to when they smashed the fraudulent refund claim? Naw I think you wanted to make a witty statement using my own words against me but failed miserably.
Max Bacon makes I really want to thank you MaxBacon I look forward to reading your future posts
Keep trying.
If you made quality posts like him, you might get some appreciation too. Even after the refund is proved to be a scam you are still in here trying to throw shade at CIG. Do you even understand what is happening to SC? Sooo many people attacking them with fraudulent claims and they are proved to be fraudulent but we have people like you not discussing it but just throwing ANY shade they possibly can. CIG should get empathy for this horrific conspiracy. BTW who the fuck cares if someone got a 45k refund? Its amazing that CIG would even issue it but people act like a whale not supporting CIG is going to end the game. They make like 40k on their shittiest day XD
These sort of stories are nonsense anyway, it doesn't matter that someone did a $330 or a $45k refund for a game when they can easily make $1M during a concept sale which they do every month.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The Star Citizen sub is celebrating this as proof the /r/starcitizen_refunds are all trolls but forgetting that everybody has been trolled by this individual.
It's not one individual, this has been ongoing and that's only the KNOWN ones that were proven fake, how much of it is real and how much of it is fabricated, impossible to tell.
Cotic is referring to this particular occurance, it clearly is one person who has trolled the refund subreddit and everyone else.
There has been plenty of SC and /r/ds diehards who claim to troll the refund sub with false refunds as well.
Cotic is referring to this particular occurance, it clearly is one person who has trolled the refund subreddit and everyone else.
There has been plenty of SC and /r/ds diehards who claim to troll the refund sub with false refunds as well.
Refunds are rather meh, with the also fabrication of "leaks" and "internal sources" what has been ongoing for years now, it's a very strong weight on fear monger like of creating a perception that this project is on the verge of collapse (for the past 2 years).
here's some more info, apparently posted by the guy who claimed the $45k refund he posted it via Discord:
"Hi I'm [$45k guy]*, I was sent here by a contact on Discord before my Reddit account was deleted. I'm the $45k refund guy and can provide any evidence if necessary. I don't know, I was getting hundreds of messages every hour, it was crazy. I was replying to a reporter from Kotaku and wiritng a long message, then I went to press "send" and Reddit gave me an error. I then refreshed my page and I was logged out. I try to log back n but it says the username and password don't exist. I just checked a few of the news sites I was replying to now, and they are saying the refund was only for $330, but that's not true. $330 is my personal account, not the shared org account. To be clear I did refund $330 too"
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Hmmmm, just reread the CIG info about the supposed refund, this time while reading it carefully I noticed they didn't actually say that there wasn't a $45k refund or is that just me?
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Hmmmm, just reread the CIG info about the supposed refund, this time while reading it carefully I noticed they didn't actually say that there wasn't a $45k refund or is that just me?
"$45,000 claimed in posted screenshots and videos which Swofford says do not reflect actual complaints requests logged by the company"
From what I get of that, it's stating that the screens/vids were not real tickets, so not just omitting it, stating fabrication.
These sort of stories are nonsense anyway, it doesn't matter that someone did a $330 or a $45k refund for a game when they can easily make $1M during a concept sale which they do every month.
It does matter.
CIG state that all the money they raise goes straight to paying for development of the game.
If you request a refund, they actually tell you that the money you paid them has already been used for that purpose.
So, if that is truly the case, every refund they give, is paid for by new backers.
If potential backers see too many refunds, and realise that they are paying for them, they might not become actual backers.
It is in CIGs best interest to deflect as much attention away from refunds as possible.
It might be the reason why 3.0 is suddenly "akin to early access", so they can change their policy once more regarding refunds, and stop giving them completely.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
It is in CIGs best interest to deflect as much attention away from refunds as possible.
And on the interest of trolls and goons to bring as much attention to refunds as possible.
Also wtf, "I'm not going to buy the game because the game gives refunds."... The obvious majority of funding doesn't come from new backers, "It matters! It matters!", seriously wtf...
It is in CIGs best interest to deflect as much attention away from refunds as possible.
And on the interest of trolls and goons to bring as much attention to refunds as possible.
Also wtf, "I'm not going to buy the game because the game gives refunds."... The obvious majority of funding doesn't come from new backers, "It matters! It matters!", seriously wtf...
Max, think carefully before responding.
New backer money matters more now than early backers money does.
Early backers money should be gone according to CIG, they have already used it to get the game to the stage it is at now.
According to CR, they base development on month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no finished game.
And like it or not, seeing refunds being requested and given, will put some people off, and cost CIG money.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Without new backers, there is no month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no finished game.
Uhh...
Without whales, there is no month to month income, not on this scale.
Not new backers, those are mostly irrelevant to that core group of backers that have been here and do frequent pledges driven from the continuous new sales.
Those are still a minority, but it just it takes a few thousands of them to achieve the millions a month this game crowd funds.
Without new backers, there is no month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no finished game.
Uhh...
Without whales, there is no month to month income, not on this scale.
Not new backers, those are mostly irrelevant to that core group of backers that have been here and do frequent pledges driven from the continuous new sales.
Those are still a minority, but it just it takes a few thousands of them to achieve the millions a month this game crowd funds.
And when the whales have bought everything on offer?
Sure, CIG can keep making new ships/vehicles/whatever, but eventually, even the most invested whales will get to the point where enough is enough.
Only time will tell which occurs first, whales saying enough, or the game is complete enough for an official launch.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
And when the whales have bought everything on offer?
Sure, CIG can keep making new ships/vehicles/whatever, but eventually, even the most invested whales will get to the point where enough is enough.
Only time will tell which occurs first, whales saying enough, or the game is complete enough for an official launch.
In the present reality here's how I see this chain:
Whales, buy mostly everything within different tiers of wealth; Existent backers that buy this and that, upgrade this and that; New Backers at the bottom of what brings in new money.
But the refunds having any relevant impact on the flow of new players is ridiculous to me; reminds me that this game is meant to "crash and burn" at any second now since 2015, that'd be far more relevant than this.
And when the whales have bought everything on offer?
Sure, CIG can keep making new ships/vehicles/whatever, but eventually, even the most invested whales will get to the point where enough is enough.
Only time will tell which occurs first, whales saying enough, or the game is complete enough for an official launch.
In the present reality here's how I see this chain:
Whales, buy mostly everything within different tiers of wealth; Existent backers that buy this and that, upgrade this and that; New Backers at the bottom of what brings in new money.
But the refunds having any relevant impact on the flow of new players is ridiculous to me; reminds me that this game is meant to "crash and burn" at any second now since 2015, that'd be far more relevant than this.
I do not disagree, I think it is stupid for anyone to say they will not buy a game because someone else will not buy it, or someone else got a refund from it, for whatever reason.
But it does happen, and to deny that it does happen, and to deny it has a financial effect is also stupid.
Just look at this website, and these forum's, you see it many times, posters asking other posters opinion of a game, and basing their willingness, or not, to play that game on that opinion.
As for it being meant to "crash and burn", do I want CIG/CR to fail, No. I want them to make both games (SC and SQ42), I want them both to be good, fun games to play.
But at the same time, I do agree with some things said by detractors of CIG/CR, and I really do believe that CR is responsible for mismanaging the development of SC/SQ42.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I do not disagree, I think it is stupid for anyone to say they will not buy a game because someone else will not buy it, or someone else got a refund from it, for whatever reason.
But it does happen, and to deny that it does happen, and to deny it has a financial effect is also stupid.
Just look at this website, and these forum's, you see it many times, posters asking other posters opinion of a game, and basing their willingness, or not, to play that game on that opinion.
As for it being meant to "crash and burn", do I want CIG/CR to fail, No. I want them to make both games (SC and SQ42), I want them both to be good, fun games to play.
But at the same time, I do agree with some things said by detractors of CIG/CR, and I really do believe that CR is responsible for mismanaging the development of SC/SQ42.
I don't agree with you on financial impact of it, I think it's nothing compared to the fear monger the whole narrative that exists for years now that paints the imminent collapse of the project has impacted on that aspect, that yes while so speculative it created a perception that generates fear, and fear is a powerful weapon in the reality of a Crowdfunded project.
" When asked about the screens, CIG said a refund was recently issued to a customer, but for $330, rather than $45,000.
Asked if this was the same customer, who might have edited the correspondence to make the amount appear bigger, CIG said "yes to the first. Yes to the second… as best as we can tell.""
What makes you think CIG isn't lying just to save face?
They are making official statements to the media, that if the 45k refund was real, the guy who made would EASILY prove they are lying, and the media revealed to have that very intention and literally minutes after he deleted his account (supposedly supposed guy implies it was one Reddit admin (yes global site admins) that did so).
So idk about you but I don't see the company taking the risk on something so easy to prove if real.
If that were the case the big story would be that reddit has a huge security issue that people can so easily delete your account by the people trying to silence you.
Of course if that was the case at least half of all reddit accounts would be deleted. Or, like most of the rest of the world no one believes that kind of "oh the dog ate my homework" bullshit. Really boss, I would have had all the work to you but someone deleted all the files I needed.
You're right the bigger story here would be one Reddit admin silencing people, and the timing would be minutes after CIG's statement and media showing intent on reaching the guy. lol
On the one I just linked posts ago, CIG responds stating the correspondence (the ticket he did prints/vid on) was edited.
And since we all know reddit mods can't delete your account and reddit itself doesn't delete accounts for violations of which there weren't any. Posting lies and tripe to reddit isn't a no no. It's SoP for many subs so it's just a crazy thing to claim. I'd have a much easier time believing C.R. himself went to the guys house and paid him in hundreds before I'd believe that a reddit mod or admin deleted this dudes account.
Yeah that wouldn't happen we see this on reddit all day long, seeing this timing it happened going with "Reddit staff did it" doesn't make sense.
This is already a ladder of assumptions through, starting with assuming that text was first, real, and second, posted by the guy who claimed the refund.
Comments
I really want to thank you MaxBacon
I look forward to reading your future posts
Keep trying.
I'm asking if people are getting paid to slander SC (I'm not saying they are or aren't) who is the beneficiary? Who would pay and why?
Trolling both sides of the argument might have been enough motivation for somebody because watching you guys go Belko Experiment on each other can be hilarious at times.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Cotic is referring to this particular occurance, it clearly is one person who has trolled the refund subreddit and everyone else.
There has been plenty of SC and /r/ds diehards who claim to troll the refund sub with false refunds as well.
"Hi I'm [$45k guy]*, I was sent here by a contact on Discord before my Reddit account was deleted. I'm the $45k refund guy and can provide any evidence if necessary. I don't know, I was getting hundreds of messages every hour, it was crazy. I was replying to a reporter from Kotaku and wiritng a long message, then I went to press "send" and Reddit gave me an error. I then refreshed my page and I was logged out. I try to log back n but it says the username and password don't exist. I just checked a few of the news sites I was replying to now, and they are saying the refund was only for $330, but that's not true. $330 is my personal account, not the shared org account. To be clear I did refund $330 too"
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
To all we know this can just be someone else riding the train hoping to strike gold..
"$45,000 claimed in posted screenshots and videos which Swofford says do not reflect actual complaints requests logged by the company"
From what I get of that, it's stating that the screens/vids were not real tickets, so not just omitting it, stating fabrication.
CIG state that all the money they raise goes straight to paying for development of the game.
If you request a refund, they actually tell you that the money you paid them has already been used for that purpose.
So, if that is truly the case, every refund they give, is paid for by new backers.
If potential backers see too many refunds, and realise that they are paying for them, they might not become actual backers.
It is in CIGs best interest to deflect as much attention away from refunds as possible.
It might be the reason why 3.0 is suddenly "akin to early access", so they can change their policy once more regarding refunds, and stop giving them completely.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Also wtf, "I'm not going to buy the game because the game gives refunds."... The obvious majority of funding doesn't come from new backers, "It matters! It matters!", seriously wtf...
New backer money matters more now than early backers money does.
Early backers money should be gone according to CIG, they have already used it to get the game to the stage it is at now.
According to CR, they base development on month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no month to month income.
Without new backers, there is no finished game.
And like it or not, seeing refunds being requested and given, will put some people off, and cost CIG money.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Without whales, there is no month to month income, not on this scale.
Not new backers, those are mostly irrelevant to that core group of backers that have been here and do frequent pledges driven from the continuous new sales.
Those are still a minority, but it just it takes a few thousands of them to achieve the millions a month this game crowd funds.
Sure, CIG can keep making new ships/vehicles/whatever, but eventually, even the most invested whales will get to the point where enough is enough.
Only time will tell which occurs first, whales saying enough, or the game is complete enough for an official launch.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
Whales, buy mostly everything within different tiers of wealth; Existent backers that buy this and that, upgrade this and that; New Backers at the bottom of what brings in new money.
But the refunds having any relevant impact on the flow of new players is ridiculous to me; reminds me that this game is meant to "crash and burn" at any second now since 2015, that'd be far more relevant than this.
But it does happen, and to deny that it does happen, and to deny it has a financial effect is also stupid.
Just look at this website, and these forum's, you see it many times, posters asking other posters opinion of a game, and basing their willingness, or not, to play that game on that opinion.
As for it being meant to "crash and burn", do I want CIG/CR to fail, No. I want them to make both games (SC and SQ42), I want them both to be good, fun games to play.
But at the same time, I do agree with some things said by detractors of CIG/CR, and I really do believe that CR is responsible for mismanaging the development of SC/SQ42.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
" When asked about the screens, CIG said a refund was recently issued to a customer, but for $330, rather than $45,000.
Asked if this was the same customer, who might have edited the correspondence to make the amount appear bigger, CIG said "yes to the first. Yes to the second… as best as we can tell.""
So idk about you but I don't see the company taking the risk on something so easy to prove if real.
On the one I just linked posts ago, CIG responds stating the correspondence (the ticket he did prints/vid on) was edited.
This is already a ladder of assumptions through, starting with assuming that text was first, real, and second, posted by the guy who claimed the refund.