I preferred Everquest and UO myself. I liked the music, classes, races, lack of direction, and dark gritty feel. WoW was a lot of fun in Vanilla, but I don't think the masses would ever like it. It was one of those games where you would spend most of your time sitting in front of a computer playing instead of doing other things.
I don't think it would be #1 and my reasoning is that I think the market for MMO gamers have changed in addition to timing.
I think it came out in the right time, was well polished, was better than anything else with much less competition and I think gamers have changed. I personally can't see myself playing an MMO in the near future. I just can't see it because it will feel like every other MMO i've ever played, it will feel the same to be honest.
A good analogy is like Tesla, it is an amazing car and very successful, but let's see what the competition will have in 13 years from now. If they were to send out the original Tesla model S from now to 13 years from now, it may suck compared to what else is out there.
Right now, it is basically a computer that can drive a person. The auto-pilot feature is amazing.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I think that compared to Everquest vanilla WoW is pitifully easy however it did well in 2004 because of how it took all the tough parts and made it more palatable and combined all the fun features from the games that came before. It did not however have the sheer variety of spells Everquest did or have the innovative ways people thought of playing
If you played Everquest or FFXI when it was released you will understand.
OOT I see you have run out of ideas since you are rehashing previous topics.
Everquest was not hard, it was tedious. There is a difference,[mod edit]
I think that compared to Everquest vanilla WoW is pitifully easy however it did well in 2004 because of how it took all the tough parts and made it more palatable and combined all the fun features from the games that came before. It did not however have the sheer variety of spells Everquest did or have the innovative ways people thought of playing
If you played Everquest or FFXI when it was released you will understand.
OOT I see you have run out of ideas since you are rehashing previous topics.
Everquest was not hard, it was tedious. There is a difference,[mod edit]
Tedious can equate to being hard for people with low attention spans
(most people), but I would say at the time of release it was hard due to
many reasons that included things like not having maps, cryptic quests,
a system that made leveling difficult, hard to find recipes and
ingredients for spells, and many other things. Most people couldn't
even fulfill their role in a group properly even with static classes
that really only had one purpose in most cases. The dungeons were some
of the most twisty, tricky, and complex ones you will find anywhere.
Time management was much more important. Items were more difficult to
acquire. Lag and disconnects were common. You would have to go back in
time and play it for a few years to really understand what it was like
for people who had never played an MMO before to jump into something
that didn't hold your hand at all or provide any guidance on what to do.
You completely under estimate the impact that WoW has had on this genre. It has taken almost 15 years for publishers to stop referring to it as the holy bible of profits, and calling it a nuclear catastrophe isn't far off.
If WoW was released now would it be successful? I don't know because it would impossible to predict how the genre would have developed over the last 13 years. However, it is certain that we would not have seen 13 years worth of WoW clones.
There is no way to be sure of this. I rather doubt it.
The market is entirely
different then it was at WoW's release. Back then it was something new
and different. Now they would be just another drop in an ocean of
conformity.
The audience that they once provided salvation will have already been saved before they got out of the gate, to the point that some wish to be saved from that salvation.
If WoW came out today with what they had in 2004 it would struggle.
I loved the older WoW, but doubt it would. Gamers have changed over the years to the point they are willing to buy a game and pay more to skip content.
Vanilla would be too much for most of today's WoW players, I don't say that in a mean way, it's just the way it is. Going from a game that lets you level in under a week, drops epics and legendary items like crazy, LFR raiding, ETC. To leveling taking potential a month, epic and legendaries locked to high end content and not seeing certain content unless you raid.
Vanilla wasn't perfect in any way, but it had that draw to it that made you want to log-in and stay logged in for god knows how many hours/days lol
People get older, have less free time in their hands, usually have more money, and as they get older they lose coordination so games need to be more casual if the company wants to keep them as customers. Probably the majority of the younger audience are playing call of duty or mobile crap while swallowing the sour pill of micro payments believing is totally fine
World pvp in WoW is terribad. Nothing will beat the OWPVP of Lineage I.
yup. chugging a haste and a brave, clicking on someone and holding the button down while with the other hand holding the potion button down until someone teleports away was truly the golden era.
anyway im not a huge wow fan never have been but there are more people playing vanilla/tbc/wotlk private servers right now than pretty much any official mmorpg not named WoW
I really don't see all the people playing WoW moving to a vanilla server, perhaps for a short while just to check it out. But they would probably miss what current WoW has. Regular WoW is not hurting for players at the moment, down players yes, but still the largest MMO. Don't think that needs fixing.
I think quite a bit of players that have quit would go back for a vanilla server. There is a large community who don't play it due to the changes made, and it shows. Look at the vanilla private servers out there right now. You get anywhere from 9k+ people logged in on the one I was playing at all times of days, with 12k on another popular one. I'm not saying it would be permanently booming, because as with everything it would die off. But I'm almost positive it would be big for a long while. Most of my friends who quit WoW quit due to how easy the game got, or added changes that they absolutely hated. I also know quite a bit of people who play retail still (me as well) who would go to a vanilla server or a progression server like in EQ and play it like crazy. I would be playing the private server more than retail but unfortunately there is plenty of chance that it could get shut down at any time or randomly get wiped.
Typical Words of a Legion Baby that never played Vanilla most likely........
Anyway...I can't stand the state WoW is in now. It's why I quit 9 months ago. Too simplistic, Too much hand Holding (Xarko's Style) and just dumbed down RNG Grinds.
If a Vanilla server opened up, I would play it in a Heartbeat!
And as a Closed Beta tester since 2003...Vanilla was the BEST time I have had.
But I believe Blizzard does not want a Vanilla Server, so until then, play what you like.
different times. If vanilla wow launched today the player base would be very small and people would quit it before level 40.
Majority of players today do not wish for or care for this type of game.
Me personally I played WoW vanilla and I think its much better today than it was at launch..its just the community isnt what it was. THAT is the biggest thing for me. The game itself is A+ compared to vanilla.
I really believe if people had vanilla wow as the only blizz MMO it would have died long ago. I dont get the "I want vanilla back" crowd at all..
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
different times. If vanilla wow launched today the player base would be very small and people would quit it before level 40.
Majority of players today do not wish for or care for this type of game.
again, there are 100k + playing on vanilla/tbc/wotlk private servers that prove these types of statements to be ignorant of the player base and 100% incorrect
different times. If vanilla wow launched today the player base would be very small and people would quit it before level 40.
Majority of players today do not wish for or care for this type of game.
again, there are 100k + playing on vanilla/tbc/wotlk private servers that prove these types of statements to be ignorant of the player base and 100% incorrect
my guess is wow has about 5m or more current players.. so again there are millions who enjoy it the way it is currently with all the improvements. Its just not that comparable to 100k. Blizz isnt going to spend resources on 100k.
Most of the Vanilla WoW people ARE in fact playing in your private servers. They know Blizz doesnt support it and I actually Agree with Blizz. They should focus on improvements.
BTW I see this a lot but WoW losing subs had nothing to do with Vanilla WoW but everything to do with Fatigue. The game is old.
Edit: Investing in Vanilla Servers isnt going to bring back Millions of people. Its going to appeal to a very certain crowd and potentially even push away current players. Its not worth it for Blizz.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Because there are more people playing official wow than private servers that no one wants to play it?
even though there are more people playing these servers than any game that has launched in the past 10 years save 1 or maybe 2.. and thats not factoring in the fact that most people won't ever play on a private server for many reasons.
One of the big things that would not work is exploring was a big part of the game. I'd imagine right now most people have played the game and know the maps. Even if they don't know the maps they would probably be posted fairly quickly. WoW Vanilla was still a lot like Everquest in many ways short of the instancing, auction house, and mostly solo mobs. If I recall correctly quests didn't have any map marker. People would be shouting non stop where is the gnoll "north east of Darkshore!" and things of the of that nature. It was actually rather amusing. Perhaps the best part of the game.
I played a "pirate" server last year and I have to admit, while the game was pretty much the same, the experience was very different. If it was a new game released today, my experience, compared to 10 years ago, would be drastically different.
More than anything else it's how streamlined everything is nowadays: Best In Slot lists so every class knows what to farm when they hit cap, well documented Top Farming Spots, a clear idea of which classes are "best" to run each type of content.
For me, the best part of the experience at WoW's release, while I had been playing MMOs before it, was the unknown and how little most players cared about FotM and optimal gameplay. You would get a feral druid with agility gear as a healer and you would do your best to make it work, because the druid would actually talk to you and explain why he had such gear, having a conversation with another player leads to friendship. Today, or at least from what I have experienced last year, this does not happen: if you are not playing your class in the most efficient way you are out. And out of what anyway? A group would just run the content without much talking, like it happens on the live version with its LFG and LFR galore.
Wow Vanilla would not be #1 today; times have changed.
I played a "pirate" server last year and I have to admit, while the game was pretty much the same, the experience was very different. If it was a new game released today, my experience, compared to 10 years ago, would be drastically different.
More than anything else it's how streamlined everything is nowadays: Best In Slot lists so every class knows what to farm when they hit cap, well documented Top Farming Spots, a clear idea of which classes are "best" to run each type of content.
For me, the best part of the experience at WoW's release, while I had been playing MMOs before it, was the unknown and how little most players cared about FotM and optimal gameplay. You would get a feral druid with agility gear as a healer and you would do your best to make it work, because the druid would actually talk to you and explain why he had such gear, having a conversation with another player leads to friendship. Today, or at least from what I have experienced last year, this does not happen: if you are not playing your class in the most efficient way you are out. And out of what anyway? A group would just run the content without much talking, like it happens on the live version with its LFG and LFR galore.
Wow Vanilla would not be #1 today; times have changed.
That's true.
I went back to try the free 10 levels a while ago. The classes were all forced into one specific roll regardless of weather or not they were hybrid or not. I found that incredibly dull. I much prefer to pick and choose from all three talent trees instead of just one.
I also find the best in slot item not very enjoyable. I'd rather people just pickup random pieces that are not part of a set. I'm sure the look of the equipment would be a lot more amusing.
Because there are more people playing official wow than private servers that no one wants to play it?
even though there are more people playing these servers than any game that has launched in the past 10 years save 1 or maybe 2.. and thats not factoring in the fact that most people won't ever play on a private server for many reasons.
your making about as much sense as a football bat
Delusion like this is why. You really believe that the WoW private servers are bigger than ANY game that launched in the last 5 years save 1 or 2.. okay buddy. Keep drinking that juice..
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I think that compared to Everquest vanilla WoW is pitifully easy however it did well in 2004 because of how it took all the tough parts and made it more palatable and combined all the fun features from the games that came before. It did not however have the sheer variety of spells Everquest did or have the innovative ways people thought of playing
If you played Everquest or FFXI when it was released you will understand.
OOT I see you have run out of ideas since you are rehashing previous topics.
Everquest was not hard, it was tedious. There is a difference,[mod edit]
Tedious can equate to being hard for people with low attention spans
(most people), but I would say at the time of release it was hard due to
many reasons that included things like not having maps, cryptic quests,
a system that made leveling difficult, hard to find recipes and
ingredients for spells, and many other things. Most people couldn't
even fulfill their role in a group properly even with static classes
that really only had one purpose in most cases. The dungeons were some
of the most twisty, tricky, and complex ones you will find anywhere.
Time management was much more important. Items were more difficult to
acquire. Lag and disconnects were common. You would have to go back in
time and play it for a few years to really understand what it was like
for people who had never played an MMO before to jump into something
that didn't hold your hand at all or provide any guidance on what to do.
Jumping onto P99 and replaying a barbarian warrior, a lot of what you say is true. One other thing I would add to it was the learning curve along the way. Not just learning where things were(cities, camps, named mobs, etc.) but the skill learning. Remember swinging 10 times and only hitting something 1 time? yeah that sucked, I almost stopped playing but then it started to get better and better. It gave the feel that your character is becoming stronger, it wasn't just the levels, it was the repetitive use also.
The thing that is missing now is the unknown, the fog of everything, the wonder has been lifted due to the need to know everything upfront. eq1/2, wow, daoc feel will all be gone until someone decides to actually surprise us with something.
Maybe #1 in today's dying MMO market but it wouldn't see anything like it's original success again. I think there are a lot of players like myself who are pretty much over this general model:
1. You pick a race, and a class. Chance are your race determines your faction, if not you pick that too. 2. You start out a level one poorly equipped character. 3. You need to talk to someone who sets you on a storyline. The storyline may or may not have ongoing importance beyond learning the game. Which you don't really need because you've already played slight variations of this game 100 times before. 4. You grind up to max level. Primarily through questing. There are other things to do as you grind but overall the idea is to hit max level as fast as possible to get the endgame. 5. You reach the endgame. Your main content from now on is dungeons or PvP arenas. These help you build a set of endgame gear. Getting better gear is the point of the endgame. 6. If you picked a PvP server there is Open World PvP as you level and that you can participate in as a max level character. It probably doesn't do much for you though, or have any lasting consequences.
That's WoW then, that's WoW now, that's most every game that's been released since 2004 and a damn good few of them before then. Utterly sick of it, as are a lot of other people.
WoW vanilla number 1? Today? No way. Average MMORPG player is around 30, so he/she most likely have job and family. No one will spend hours in game just to go in dungeon or make some significant progress. And pay money for it. If you look at top 10 mmorpg list for 2016 you'll see, that all of those games have one thing in common - friendliness to casual player. Any game who was praised for vanilla wow feeling - Wildstar, Asta online not just not popular but have very hard time to survive at all. And private servers, well, those ppl play for free. Charge them with some fee and let's see how many will stay. Everyone, who saying that vanilla wow was better or best ever - "Nostalgia goggles are strong with these ones"
Comments
I think it came out in the right time, was well polished, was better than anything else with much less competition and I think gamers have changed. I personally can't see myself playing an MMO in the near future. I just can't see it because it will feel like every other MMO i've ever played, it will feel the same to be honest.
A good analogy is like Tesla, it is an amazing car and very successful, but let's see what the competition will have in 13 years from now. If they were to send out the original Tesla model S from now to 13 years from now, it may suck compared to what else is out there.
Right now, it is basically a computer that can drive a person. The auto-pilot feature is amazing.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
If WoW was released now would it be successful? I don't know because it would impossible to predict how the genre would have developed over the last 13 years. However, it is certain that we would not have seen 13 years worth of WoW clones.
The market is entirely different then it was at WoW's release. Back then it was something new and different. Now they would be just another drop in an ocean of conformity.
The audience that they once provided salvation will have already been saved before they got out of the gate, to the point that some wish to be saved from that salvation.
If WoW came out today with what they had in 2004 it would struggle.
anyway im not a huge wow fan never have been but there are more people playing vanilla/tbc/wotlk private servers right now than pretty much any official mmorpg not named WoW
Anyway...I can't stand the state WoW is in now. It's why I quit 9 months ago. Too simplistic, Too much hand Holding (Xarko's Style) and just dumbed down RNG Grinds.
If a Vanilla server opened up, I would play it in a Heartbeat!
And as a Closed Beta tester since 2003...Vanilla was the BEST time I have had.
But I believe Blizzard does not want a Vanilla Server, so until then, play what you like.
To each their own.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Majority of players today do not wish for or care for this type of game.
Me personally I played WoW vanilla and I think its much better today than it was at launch..its just the community isnt what it was. THAT is the biggest thing for me. The game itself is A+ compared to vanilla.
I really believe if people had vanilla wow as the only blizz MMO it would have died long ago. I dont get the "I want vanilla back" crowd at all..
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Most of the Vanilla WoW people ARE in fact playing in your private servers. They know Blizz doesnt support it and I actually Agree with Blizz. They should focus on improvements.
BTW I see this a lot but WoW losing subs had nothing to do with Vanilla WoW but everything to do with Fatigue. The game is old.
Edit: Investing in Vanilla Servers isnt going to bring back Millions of people. Its going to appeal to a very certain crowd and potentially even push away current players. Its not worth it for Blizz.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Because there are more people playing official wow than private servers that no one wants to play it?
even though there are more people playing these servers than any game that has launched in the past 10 years save 1 or maybe 2..
and thats not factoring in the fact that most people won't ever play on a private server for many reasons.
your making about as much sense as a football bat
More than anything else it's how streamlined everything is nowadays: Best In Slot lists so every class knows what to farm when they hit cap, well documented Top Farming Spots, a clear idea of which classes are "best" to run each type of content.
For me, the best part of the experience at WoW's release, while I had been playing MMOs before it, was the unknown and how little most players cared about FotM and optimal gameplay. You would get a feral druid with agility gear as a healer and you would do your best to make it work, because the druid would actually talk to you and explain why he had such gear, having a conversation with another player leads to friendship. Today, or at least from what I have experienced last year, this does not happen: if you are not playing your class in the most efficient way you are out. And out of what anyway? A group would just run the content without much talking, like it happens on the live version with its LFG and LFR galore.
Wow Vanilla would not be #1 today; times have changed.
I went back to try the free 10 levels a while ago. The classes were all forced into one specific roll regardless of weather or not they were hybrid or not. I found that incredibly dull. I much prefer to pick and choose from all three talent trees instead of just one.
I also find the best in slot item not very enjoyable. I'd rather people just pickup random pieces that are not part of a set. I'm sure the look of the equipment would be a lot more amusing.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Jumping onto P99 and replaying a barbarian warrior, a lot of what you say is true. One other thing I would add to it was the learning curve along the way. Not just learning where things were(cities, camps, named mobs, etc.) but the skill learning. Remember swinging 10 times and only hitting something 1 time? yeah that sucked, I almost stopped playing but then it started to get better and better. It gave the feel that your character is becoming stronger, it wasn't just the levels, it was the repetitive use also.
The thing that is missing now is the unknown, the fog of everything, the wonder has been lifted due to the need to know everything upfront. eq1/2, wow, daoc feel will all be gone until someone decides to actually surprise us with something.
1. You pick a race, and a class. Chance are your race determines your faction, if not you pick that too.
2. You start out a level one poorly equipped character.
3. You need to talk to someone who sets you on a storyline. The storyline may or may not have ongoing importance beyond learning the game. Which you don't really need because you've already played slight variations of this game 100 times before.
4. You grind up to max level. Primarily through questing. There are other things to do as you grind but overall the idea is to hit max level as fast as possible to get the endgame.
5. You reach the endgame. Your main content from now on is dungeons or PvP arenas. These help you build a set of endgame gear. Getting better gear is the point of the endgame.
6. If you picked a PvP server there is Open World PvP as you level and that you can participate in as a max level character. It probably doesn't do much for you though, or have any lasting consequences.
That's WoW then, that's WoW now, that's most every game that's been released since 2004 and a damn good few of them before then. Utterly sick of it, as are a lot of other people.