Do you think TBC talents would work with Vanilla?

Galadourn · November 2017

I was just wondering, would the TBC talents work in a Vanilla setting, with Vanilla itemization, mob difficulty scaling, etc. or would they be OP?

Just want to hear your thoughts.

BeansnBread · November 2017

For those who want a couple of links, here they are. Trees change a bit throughout expansions, but here are two points in time.

Vanilla 1.12:
http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent

TBC 2.4.3:
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents/

Edit: I changed to an english version on one of them.

Kyleran · November 2017

This is how the road to madness starts.

If they are making a vanilla like version they need to avoid making significnt changes from other versions.

Warlyx · November 2017

too op imo , just the healers specs

, damn druids in tbc

Galadourn · November 2017

Funny thing is that patch 2.0.1 "Before the Storm" went live in servers before the portal being opened for Outland. People were able to play around with the talents for a couple of days, I think they totally pawned old content with the new talents. (iirc 5-manning Onyxia).

EDIT: corrected patch number
EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

Kyleran · November 2017

Galadourn said:

EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

There's a good example of the madness.

BeansnBread · November 2017

All I know is that when BC came out, I played Warrior and my bro played Druid in arena and it was extremely overpowered. There is no doubt that the imbalances were more pronounced back in BC and earlier than they are today. At least from my experience.

Galadourn · November 2017

Kyleran said:

Galadourn said:

EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

There's a good example of the madness.

it's just brain storming, nobody expects Blizzard to actually do something like this (after all, the expansions' role WAS to address those vanilla issues, among others) but skimming through that talent list it appeared to me that the much desired specialization option was a possibility, if one went all the way down to 41-pt talent spec.

Warlyx · November 2017

Galadourn said:

Kyleran said:

Galadourn said:

EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

There's a good example of the madness.

it's just brain storming, nobody expects Blizzard to actually do something like this (after all, the expansions' role WAS to address those vanilla issues, among others) but skimming through that talent list it appeared to me that the much desired specialization option was a possibility, if one went all the way down to 41-pt talent spec.

to be fair it wasnt until woltk that all specs were kinda "desired" , some more than others like always but u could play a shaman dps , even paladin was more than ok in woltk with so many undeads (exorcism crits !) , in tbc paladin dps was 1 slot if that and kinda "meh"

Kyleran · November 2017

Galadourn said:h

Kyleran said:

Galadourn said:

EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

There's a good example of the madness.

it's just brain storming, nobody expects Blizzard to actually do something like this (after all, the expansions' role WAS to address those vanilla issues, among others) but skimming through that talent list it appeared to me that the much desired specialization option was a possibility, if one went all the way down to 41-pt talent spec.

Actually some people will ask for this, if not now post launch once all of the old imbalances are realized once more.

It's not an idea Blizzard will be philosophically opposed to if they come to believe it's what a majority of the players desire, aka will lead to making more money.

Slapshot1188 · November 2017

Then it wouldn't be a vanilla server.... it needs to start as close to launch condition as possible.

Galadourn · November 2017

Kyleran said:

Galadourn said:h

Kyleran said:

Galadourn said:

EDIT2: But to be fair, that patch also changed all the skills for all classes so we can't know for sure the effect of talents alone on game balance.

There's a good example of the madness.

it's just brain storming, nobody expects Blizzard to actually do something like this (after all, the expansions' role WAS to address those vanilla issues, among others) but skimming through that talent list it appeared to me that the much desired specialization option was a possibility, if one went all the way down to 41-pt talent spec.

Actually some people will ask for this, if not now post launch once all of the old imbalances are realized once more.

It's not an idea Blizzard will be philosophically opposed to if they come to believe it's what a majority of the players desire, aka will lead to making more money.

To be honest, that's too much of a change and the game would no longer be considered Vanilla. However I do believe Blizzard can/will address certain balance issues with redesign of certain items and abilities for each class. And they can justify this by saying "that would have been the change we would have made back then to balance things out".

btdt · November 2017

Boss fights were entirely different back then.... encounters where specific builds were necessary to even complete them. It wasn't about having the best build as much as the right build. You had to farm the right gear, the right consumables, switch (at great expense) into the right spec encounter to encounter.

As soon as you bring up TBC, you're already changing the very essence of what vanilla was. 40 people working together to take down a boss... even if that meant spending the entire encounter on CC duty. 40 people working together to take down a boss... even if it meant switching into resist gear and being a sponge for the rest of the raid. TBC still had a lot of that but it started the shift away from support roles in the game.

Embrace vanilla in all it's glory and ugliness... there is a lot to learn from it. I played a class that was relegated to a support role. I had a lot of fun nonetheless. Far more fun than this number chasing nonsense of today. Imagine trying to take on an encounter with classes that were never designed for it back in the day... see how clever you can be, there was more than one way to skin a cat, people just opted to skin it the same way. People are going to return to the past and do what the remember instead of trying something different. 'I already know the way to beat this encounter and I'm just going to do it the way I always have done' is why vanilla is not for you anymore.

Gymrat313 · November 2017

I played a Rogue in Vanilla and I remember my guild would only take up to two Rogues in MC and that was just so gear wouldn't rot.

Forgrimm · November 2017

The overall talent system was the same, the trees just went deeper, they added some new talents, and everyone got 10 more talent points.

Kyleran · November 2017

Gymrat313 said:

I played a Rogue in Vanilla and I remember my guild would only take up to two Rogues in MC and that was just so gear wouldn't rot.

Yeah, but in BWL I think it was there was a Dragon encounter where you need like 6 rogues in order to do enough DPS before the timer ran out.

Nax had a requirement for at least 4 well geared tanks which is one reason why it took 7 weeks for the first clear.

Galadourn · November 2017

Forgrimm said:

The overall talent system was the same, the trees just went deeper, they added some new talents, and everyone got 10 more talent points.

But they also changed the skills completely and added new ones, and made some skills trainable instead of requiring a talent in order to get.

fs23otm · November 2017

I am interested in how they handle Paladins/Shamans..... If it is Vanilla... only alliance paladins and horde shamans....

It will be funny to see people crying but I wanted to be a Blood Elf... but no blood elves around.

Oh and the crying over the druid forms...

fs23otm · November 2017

https://izco.wordpress.com/viable-specs-in-wows-history/

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Do you think TBC talents would work with Vanilla?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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Do you think TBC talents would work with Vanilla?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV