Comments

• Divion Member UncommonPosts: 411

  November 2017

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  
• Sovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780

  November 2017

  Divion said:

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  

  Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 
  
  Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
  
  
  Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

  
  

  Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description
  

  
  Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  
• unrealaz1 Member UncommonPosts: 17

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Divion said:

  
  

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  
  

  
  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  
  

  
  
  That's the thing, the problem will come back every time if they don't change LeaseWeb. And yes the game will be dead if something like The Lineage or Lost Ark comes out or Star Citizen. People don't just "storm away". You grow more and more fed up until you say fuck it and when you do, a lot of people will follow.Our whole guild which was even on EU gave up on the game and is playing filler games because Kakao doesn't deserve money anymore
• Uhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791

  November 2017

  Sovrath said:

  Divion said:

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  A lot of us were unable to play the game for nearly a month.  Disconnects and lag cost some of us things that actually cost us real world money.  Combined with being told, initially, that the problem wasn't on their end but ours. 
  
  
  If it was a problem that lasted a week, ok fine.  If they had told us after two weeks the problem was a little harder to resolve than expect, ok fine.  That didn't happen; it took a player pointing out that the problem was at the hosting providers building, after nearly 3 weeks, and a protest from players before they started taking it seriously. 
  
  
  It's not "a gamer thing" it's a consumer thing, and it's justified.  A lot of us are actually paying monthly for a service, and we expect that service to be provided.  When that service isn't being provided we expect the company providing it to actually resolve the issue in a timely fashion; not put the problem on our end and ignore it for nearly a month. 
  
  The game may be buy to play, but many of us use value packs that are a $15, 30 day item, that requires a $20 kakoa cash purchase.  It's got nothing to do with hearts on sleeves and everything to do with warranted consumer expectation.   
  

  
• Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,777

  November 2017

  unrealaz1 said:

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Divion said:

  
  

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  
  

  
  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  
  

  
  
  That's the thing, the problem will come back every time if they don't change LeaseWeb. And yes the game will be dead if something like The Lineage or Lost Ark comes out or Star Citizen. People don't just "storm away". You grow more and more fed up until you say fuck it and when you do, a lot of people will follow.Our whole guild which was even on EU gave up on the game and is playing filler games because Kakao doesn't deserve money anymore

  Lost Ark, and Star Citizen are absolutely nothing like BDO. Those games do not pull the same crowd and even if some of the population leaves for them, it won't kill the game. Lineage might pull a similar crowd but right now that game isn't even close to coming out and most of the people I knew who played Lineage 2 in any of my clans I was in went to BDO. 

  
• Sovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780

  November 2017 edited November 2017

  Uhwop said:

  Sovrath said:

  Divion said:

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  A lot of us were unable to play the game for nearly a month.  Disconnects and lag cost some of us things that actually cost us real world money.  Combined with being told, initially, that the problem wasn't on their end but ours. 
  
  
  If it was a problem that lasted a week, ok fine.  If they had told us after two weeks the problem was a little harder to resolve than expect, ok fine.  That didn't happen; it took a player pointing out that the problem was at the hosting providers building, after nearly 3 weeks, and a protest from players before they started taking it seriously. 
  
  
  It's not "a gamer thing" it's a consumer thing, and it's justified.  A lot of us are actually paying monthly for a service, and we expect that service to be provided.  When that service isn't being provided we expect the company providing it to actually resolve the issue in a timely fashion; not put the problem on our end and ignore it for nearly a month. 
  
  The game may be buy to play, but many of us use value packs that are a $15, 30 day item, that requires a $20 kakoa cash purchase.  It's got nothing to do with hearts on sleeves and everything to do with warranted consumer expectation.   
  

  I'm pretty sure that if one was not able to play for an extended period that they would honor those value packs once it was resolved.
  
  And while you make a good point that "it's a consumer thing", it is a gamer thing to "wear their hearts on their sleeve", cry about it and even threaten to take the game off the hard drive. But yeah, they then go back. It's all about the drama.
  
  It was a technical issue, I can't speak to how much they knew/didn't know I'm not really interested in being on the "players know best bandwagon" as players really only ever have a small bit of the information.
  
  But it's pretty cut and dried, there was an issue that affected some people. It took them a bit to solve it. I'm sure it wasn't so easy as someone discovering it, telling them and them hitting their head saying "you got me"!
  
  No company wants to lose customers or piss them off. Things happen. If they could fix it with a simple fix, and quickly, they would have.
  
  Now, if a player couldn't access the game and they didn't honor his value packs? Yeah, 100% on your side and that would be cause not to patronize them anymore.
  

  Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 
  
  Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
  
  
  Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

  
  

  Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description
  

  
  Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  
• Uhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791

  November 2017

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Uhwop said:

  
  

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Divion said:

  
  

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  
  

  
  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  
  

  
  A lot of us were unable to play the game for nearly a month.  Disconnects and lag cost some of us things that actually cost us real world money.  Combined with being told, initially, that the problem wasn't on their end but ours. 
  
  
  If it was a problem that lasted a week, ok fine.  If they had told us after two weeks the problem was a little harder to resolve than expect, ok fine.  That didn't happen; it took a player pointing out that the problem was at the hosting providers building, after nearly 3 weeks, and a protest from players before they started taking it seriously. 
  
  
  It's not "a gamer thing" it's a consumer thing, and it's justified.  A lot of us are actually paying monthly for a service, and we expect that service to be provided.  When that service isn't being provided we expect the company providing it to actually resolve the issue in a timely fashion; not put the problem on our end and ignore it for nearly a month. 
  
  The game may be buy to play, but many of us use value packs that are a $15, 30 day item, that requires a $20 kakoa cash purchase.  It's got nothing to do with hearts on sleeves and everything to do with warranted consumer expectation.   
  

  
  

  
  I'm pretty sure that if one was not able to play for an extended period that they would honor those value packs once it was resolved.
  
  And while you make a good point that "it's a consumer thing", it is a gamer thing to "wear their hearts on their sleeve", cry about it and even threaten to take the game off the hard drive. But yeah, they then go back. It's all about the drama.
  
  It was a technical issue, I can't speak to how much they knew/didn't know I'm not really interested in being on the "players know best bandwagon" as players really only ever have a small bit of the information.
  
  But it's pretty cut and dried, there was an issue that affected some people. It took them a bit to solve it. I'm sure it wasn't so easy as someone discovering it, telling them and them hitting their head saying "you got me"!
  
  No company wants to lose customers or piss them off. Things happen. If they could fix it with a simple fix, and quickly, they would have.
  
  Now, if a player couldn't access the game and they didn't honor his value packs? Yeah, 100% on your side and that would be cause not to patronize them anymore.
  

  
  

  
  
  Kakoa hasn't said what they're going to do as compensation for the near month that was lost to a lot of us.
  
  There wasn't a bandwagon to jump on. We were literally being told the problem was on our end right until a player pointed out to kakoa that the issue occurs at their hosting providers building, and then a few days later kakoa started working on trying to fix it.
  
  It didn't take them three weeks to fix the problem, it took them three weeks to actually start addressing it as a problem, and then it got fixed.
  
  This wasn't a minor inconvenience for the community. It drove away a large portion of the community. The servers sat at crowded at all times during the day a couple of weeks ago. There's only two crowded channels right now, and this is after a large content release.
  
  This wasn't a minor inconvenience that only effected a small subset of players.
  
  I'm not claiming that this is the death knell of the game. I'm just trying to express that it's not fair to a large portion of this games community to dismiss a near month long issue as nothing but a minor inconvenience for them, and just gamers being gamers.
  
  After all we are having a conversation in the comments section of an article where Kakoa states that, "We ensure you that we will commit to swiftly solving future problems." Because they didn't address it when the problem initially occurred, and it had more than a minor impact on the community; which did in fact cost them a lot of players.
  
  
  
• Sovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,780

  November 2017

  Uhwop said:

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Uhwop said:

  
  

  
  

  Sovrath said:

  
  

  
  

  Divion said:

  
  

  The manner in which this issue was handled causes me great concern. As a Guild Master of a very large guild i had many people impacted, who lost the will to play this game. I myself suffered great loss, and frustration to this issue. I work as a System Engineer, and saw the manner in which they first attempted to shift blame away, then ignored farmed up data showing the issue with LeaseWeb, then finally shifting burden to the very players who reported for weeks of an issue makes me feel like their ability to tackle future challenges is left wanting. This isn't recent history either. Reports started surfacing of WAN Routing issues over Leasewebs relays months ago. It's very clear the methodology and cause is due to the desire to cut costs of infrastructure and provisional support vital to up-keeping a game of this size. The entire situation reeked of cash-cow practices more committed to their bottom-line by reducing overhead than anything else. The truly do deserve the name KashKao. Once a viable alternative exists, i predict a quick death in the months to follow. As an alpha founder, i'm quite heart broken.

  
  

  
  while I'm sorry you are heart broken that seems a bit precious. This seems to be a gamer thing, wear heart on sleeve and if anything goes wrong just storm away.
  
  Too much investment is going into these games where, if they don't fill some gap in one's life they become "dead to me".
  
  What about, they had some technical issues, they didn't fix them right away but they are now solved and people can go back to playing. "Problem solved".
  

  
  

  
  A lot of us were unable to play the game for nearly a month.  Disconnects and lag cost some of us things that actually cost us real world money.  Combined with being told, initially, that the problem wasn't on their end but ours. 
  
  
  If it was a problem that lasted a week, ok fine.  If they had told us after two weeks the problem was a little harder to resolve than expect, ok fine.  That didn't happen; it took a player pointing out that the problem was at the hosting providers building, after nearly 3 weeks, and a protest from players before they started taking it seriously. 
  
  
  It's not "a gamer thing" it's a consumer thing, and it's justified.  A lot of us are actually paying monthly for a service, and we expect that service to be provided.  When that service isn't being provided we expect the company providing it to actually resolve the issue in a timely fashion; not put the problem on our end and ignore it for nearly a month. 
  
  The game may be buy to play, but many of us use value packs that are a $15, 30 day item, that requires a $20 kakoa cash purchase.  It's got nothing to do with hearts on sleeves and everything to do with warranted consumer expectation.   
  

  
  

  
  I'm pretty sure that if one was not able to play for an extended period that they would honor those value packs once it was resolved.
  
  And while you make a good point that "it's a consumer thing", it is a gamer thing to "wear their hearts on their sleeve", cry about it and even threaten to take the game off the hard drive. But yeah, they then go back. It's all about the drama.
  
  It was a technical issue, I can't speak to how much they knew/didn't know I'm not really interested in being on the "players know best bandwagon" as players really only ever have a small bit of the information.
  
  But it's pretty cut and dried, there was an issue that affected some people. It took them a bit to solve it. I'm sure it wasn't so easy as someone discovering it, telling them and them hitting their head saying "you got me"!
  
  No company wants to lose customers or piss them off. Things happen. If they could fix it with a simple fix, and quickly, they would have.
  
  Now, if a player couldn't access the game and they didn't honor his value packs? Yeah, 100% on your side and that would be cause not to patronize them anymore.
  

  
  

  
  
  Kakoa hasn't said what they're going to do as compensation for the near month that was lost to a lot of us.
  
  There wasn't a bandwagon to jump on. We were literally being told the problem was on our end right until a player pointed out to kakoa that the issue occurs at their hosting providers building, and then a few days later kakoa started working on trying to fix it.
  
  It didn't take them three weeks to fix the problem, it took them three weeks to actually start addressing it as a problem, and then it got fixed.
  
  This wasn't a minor inconvenience for the community. It drove away a large portion of the community. The servers sat at crowded at all times during the day a couple of weeks ago. There's only two crowded channels right now, and this is after a large content release.
  
  This wasn't a minor inconvenience that only effected a small subset of players.
  
  I'm not claiming that this is the death knell of the game. I'm just trying to express that it's not fair to a large portion of this games community to dismiss a near month long issue as nothing but a minor inconvenience for them, and just gamers being gamers.
  
  After all we are having a conversation in the comments section of an article where Kakoa states that, "We ensure you that we will commit to swiftly solving future problems." Because they didn't address it when the problem initially occurred, and it had more than a minor impact on the community; which did in fact cost them a lot of players.
  
  
  

  Ok Uhwop, fair enough, I get your point.
  

  Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 
  
  Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
  
  
  Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

  
  

  Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description
  

  
  Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  
• TalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247

  November 2017

  If you buy just the box price, and never put another dime into it.
  
  Can you really complain?
  
  Kakao needs to split the servers between those that buy the optional sub-pack and those that don't.
  
  Get what you pay for.
• mmrv Member RarePosts: 305

  November 2017

  ROFL, here is the deal nothing was really fixed. LeaseWeb is like the 398 out of 400 ranked server host provider its has nothing close to the infrastructure required to properly host real time online gaming, that is why this game has had never ending "desyncs" , D/C and latency issues from day one. Its really sad because as great as the mechanics are in BDO into the end if the network/server performance is dog crap the game will feel and play like crap.
  
  So the intolerable d/c issue has been solved woot, guess what I still get dumped to a reload 10 times a day because of how poor the network leaseweb provides is. I have to agree with the OP the open wound is no longer bleeding but its still an unhealed open wound.
  
  KashKao is really shot itself in the foot cheaping out on server performance in favor of short term money grabs. I usually support this game and the monetization of it but I can't support short cutting server hosting to grab a few extra bucks for a product of this scale.
• unrealaz1 Member UncommonPosts: 17

  November 2017

  
  

  DMKano said:

  
  

  
  

  unrealaz1 said:

  
  

  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  

  
  
  
  
  That's the thing, the problem will come back every time if they don't change LeaseWeb. And yes the game will be dead if something like The Lineage or Lost Ark comes out or Star Citizen.
  People don't just "storm away". You grow more and more fed up until you say fuck it and when you do, a lot of people will follow.Our whole guild which was even on EU gave up on the game and is playing filler games because Kakao doesn't deserve money anymore

  
  

  
  
  None of the games you name are a direct competitor - Lost Ark is a MMO-ARPG, Star Citizen is scifi etc...
  
  Players that are still having fun and enjoying the game - they don't leave for other games it doesn't work like that. "Man this is the best game ever, having so much fun... but I have to leave because this other game is coming out" - said no one ever.
  
  The number #1 reason why people leave is - boredom, they are just not having fun anymore, that's when people leave for "other games". 
  
  Over time - boredom is inevitable - MMOs to an average joe last for about 2-6 weeks before people move on. Yes there are players that keep playing for months, but they are a minority, those who stick around for years - even a smaller minority.
  
  Most players take breaks, then come back etc - playing one game non-stop= burnout
  
  So on paper - it looks "well this player left for another game" - reality - this player was bored and was going to leave regardless.
  
  
  
  
  

  
  

  
  
  Nope, people leave cause even though the game is very good and can be very good the Publisher fucks it up. See Archeage/Rift. In BDO the problems with the servers and optimizations have been since the start and instead of getting better they are getting worse. Also all 3 games I've listed are MMORPG's, they attract the same crowd.