Is Blizzard's hearthstone the next controversy for cash shop gambling?

TheScavenger · December 2017

Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

What are your guys's thoughts?

Scorchien · December 2017

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

Bluefear77 · December 2017

People pick and choose what is pay to win, just like they pick and choose morality. Don't try to make sense of it.

TheScavenger · December 2017

Scorchien said:

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone.

However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same.

Kyleran · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone.

However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same.

Stop it, you are just trying to interject too much common sense into these forums, you will upset the ragers

laxie · December 2017

Here is the main distinction to me:

Hearthstone, like any trading card game, has the "lootbox" component as core gameplay. You buy it with that in mind, for that feature specifically.

Battlefront 2 has the loot boxes as a barrier to content. You presumably bought Battlefront to swing your lightsaber, but are forced to spend on loot boxes if you want to do that. In this sense, the loot boxes are a bit more misleading.

One could argue that people buy Battlefront 2 because they enjoy loot boxes specifically, much like Hearthstone. But I don't think that's accurate.

Scorchien · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone.

However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same.

You can thank the shit communtiy that the internet has bred for that , you cant trade etc,, Becuase of all the cheats/hax/scams/dupes/goldselles etc.. this protects the communtiy that is interested in the game ..

That they all agreed to play knowing full well in the EULA that they agree to everytime they log in that they cannot and will not ever be able to trade/sell/gift these items .. Tough to complain about something that you agreed to access the content .. Only a fool or an idiot would do so (this is a general statement not directed at any individual)

Now you can gift people card packs in Hearthstone , thru gift cards if you choose tho

MadFrenchie · December 2017

Torval said:

It could be affected by the push for draconian legislation. You should post that question in the discussion here: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/470133/mmorpg-com-general-hawaiis-chris-lee-step-up-to-changing-predatory-gaming-practices.

Lol dude, you've went full hard-on about consumer backlash on loot boxes. You have a personal financial stake in the idea or something?

Herase · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone.

However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same.

Think it's overall how they've been implemented. EA's asking you to pay $60 and if you want to enjoy the game properly, even though you've already paid money. you're asked to pay more for a headache free experience or bang your head on the table for several months to earn anything. With Hearth you don't feel like you're being manipulated into a corner, I can jump in try it, if the games worth the time I might buy some shit, nothing gained nothing lossed, unlike BF2 mts.

Gymrat313 · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

Scorchien said:

My thoughts are .. This is how every single CCG works , every single on of them ,, That is a core mechanic OF CCG has been since the very first ones .. Most people who play them or get involved know that going in ...

This is a non -issue

But, they are still gambling like battlefront 2 loot boxes are.

In real trading card games in real life, while its always random what you get and still a form of gambling. You can physically trade (or sell) the card to other people or even give the cards to friends.

You can't do this in blizzard's hearthstone.

However, can you explain how blizzard's hearthstone gambling cards are any different than EA's battlefront 2 gambling loot boxes? Both are pretty much the same.

Most of the cards you get in Magic: The Gathering are shit and you get so many of them because they are "common". How do I know this, because I have white boxes sitting in my closet full of useless cards I can't give away. If I need a specific card, I don't buy booster packs as they are a gamble, I simply go and buy that card for a specific price.

AAAMEOW · December 2017

There are bazillion pay 2 win games out there. You don't hear people complaining over it.

I think the reason is expectation. People expect f2p games to be pay to win, but don't expect a boxed game to be pay to win.

And I suppose most games similar to battlefront aren't pay 2 win. While most card games are.

Wizardry · December 2017

Blizzard's entire operation has been moving more and more to ADDED costs to play games that do NOT warrant the very high costs these demand.

We are talking 100-300 for a few months,compared to getting 100% of a games content through 15 dollar sub fees,you can easily see how much Blizzard and other tcg's are ripping people off.
Furthermore ,these are NOT RNG loot boxes they are possibly worse or identical.

You see to an average person consumer,we EXPECT rng to mean a complete total random outcome but this is NOT the case,especially in Hearthstone and others games as well.The results are weighted so that you get 100% meaningless and worthless cards MORE often,which you only get a grand total of 5 dust per crap card.Even worse you will often get 2x that same crap card in that same pack but you will NEVER see a legend or rare double in the same pack.

Without explaining the whole ripoff system,i will cut it short,we do NOT control ANY of our purchases meaning we cannot sell those cards,we are stuck under Blizzard's umbrella to do as they see fit with OUR cards.So basically it comers down to not 1 purchase but it takes about 10 -20 packs to have a true rng at 1 legend.
This is VERY misleading because people believe they have a fair shake at a legendary but they do NOT because true rng is NOT used,instead manipulated algorithm's are.If it was a TRUE and HONEST rng ,then i think most would consider it FAIR but not totally fair unless we control our cards we buy,meaning sell them to other players.

TheScavenger · December 2017

So going by this thread. If every developer made their games free, but added tons of pay to win+loot boxes that would be okay?

Guess this thread solves EA's problem. They can see this thread and go "oh we can make a ton more money by going free to play and add an extensive cash shop!"

TheScavenger · December 2017

Wizardry said:

Blizzard's entire operation has been moving more and more to ADDED costs to play games that do NOT warrant the very high costs these demand.

We are talking 100-300 for a few months,compared to getting 100% of a games content through 15 dollar sub fees,you can easily see how much Blizzard and other tcg's are ripping people off.
Furthermore ,these are NOT RNG loot boxes they are possibly worse or identical.

You see to an average person consumer,we EXPECT rng to mean a complete total random outcome but this is NOT the case,especially in Hearthstone and others games as well.The results are weighted so that you get 100% meaningless and worthless cards MORE often,which you only get a grand total of 5 dust per crap card.Even worse you will often get 2x that same crap card in that same pack but you will NEVER see a legend or rare double in the same pack.

Without explaining the whole ripoff system,i will cut it short,we do NOT control ANY of our purchases meaning we cannot sell those cards,we are stuck under Blizzard's umbrella to do as they see fit with OUR cards.So basically it comers down to not 1 purchase but it takes about 10 -20 packs to have a true rng at 1 legend.
This is VERY misleading because people believe they have a fair shake at a legendary but they do NOT because true rng is NOT used,instead manipulated algorithm's are.If it was a TRUE and HONEST rng ,then i think most would consider it FAIR but not totally fair unless we control our cards we buy,meaning sell them to other players.

If that is the case, that is a lot worse. Not even true RNG, but rigged against the player. Is battlefront 2 loot boxes like that?

At least buying cards in real life in a pack is true RNG. Or just straight up buying the card(s) you want or trading for them.

TheDarkrayne · December 2017

I played HearthStone and throughly enjoyed it up until the point I felt like I had to buy loot boxes to progress at a reasonable pace. Then I stopped playing it.

It felt good that I'd got to try it for free and had a lot of fun gameplay. At least I was given a free chance of finding out whether or not their RNG system is something I want to pay for.

I left the game with a positive feeling, not a negative one. I felt like it was me that just ripped them off and not the other way around.

It's very different to spending $60 to find out it's something you don't want to continue paying for.

Tiamat64 · December 2017

Trading Cards are gambling (even more so than Hearthstone considering how many of them have real life market tradeable value). They just found a way to trick people into thinking they aren't for decades because they're "for kids".

Thane · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

What are your guys's thoughts?

they are nothing alike. blizz is selling cosmectic items.

TheDarkrayne · December 2017

Thane said:

TheScavenger said:

Blizzard's hearthstone is almost exactly like EA's loot boxes. In hearthstone, you pay for a pack of cards...and you never know what cards you are going to get. You can't pay for certain cards, and the person who pays the most will have a far superior deck. In fact, its a VERY pay to win game. However, ignoring the pay to win of the game...blizzard's hearthstone is no different than the loot boxes for EA's battlefront 2

However, there is one difference. Everyone hates EA so it gets dog piled on...but...no one is upset about blizzard's hearthstone that pretty much does the same thing? You can't even earn cards while you play hearthstone, nothing people pay for can be earned in-game.

Will Blizzard's hearthstone be next for controversial subject on cash shop gambling? So far blizzard has skated on by avoiding controversy...but in many ways their hearthstone game is far worse than EA's battlefront 2 loot boxes. But both are just as bad, as far as online gambling goes.

What are your guys's thoughts?

they are nothing alike. blizz is selling cosmectic items.

HearthStone card packs are not cosmetic. You're confusing it with Overwatch.

Dauzqul · December 2017

I just want to pay 15 per month and forget about all the cash shop bs.

Whatever happened to earning your rewards via in the game?

vomomoto · December 2017

You can craft cards in HS....

Superman0X · December 2017

zymurgeist said:

It's not gambling. No matter what cards you get they have no value. None. Zip. Nada. It's pixie dust and electrons.

The Representative is not making the argument that it is gambling... they are stating that they have 'Gambling Mechanisms' that they wish to regulate.

RexKushman · December 2017

vomomoto said:

You can craft cards in HS....

And you can unlock everything in BF 2 without ever spending RL cash on boxes. It is all available to be earned in game with in game credits.

AAAMEOW · December 2017

RexKushman said:

vomomoto said:

You can craft cards in HS....

And you can unlock everything in BF 2 without ever spending RL cash on boxes. It is all available to be earned in game with in game credits.

That is same for korean games and asian games. Why do people can them pay to win?

zaberfangx · December 2017

I have not played Heartstone to a limit to understand the system. It just comes down to if they pray on people wallet. Like match you up with people with really good cards make you feel that you need to buy more cards to win.

AAAMEOW · December 2017

TheScavenger said:

So going by this thread. If every developer made their games free, but added tons of pay to win+loot boxes that would be okay?

Guess this thread solves EA's problem. They can see this thread and go "oh we can make a ton more money by going free to play and add an extensive cash shop!"

When Nazi's go after jews, I stay silent.

When Nazi's go after gays, I stay silent.

When Nazi's go after me, there is no one left to speak for me.

I think the reason only EA is feeling the backslash now is people usually don't expect pay to win from that specific genre. Slowly and surely lootbox seemed to creep in all game genre.

Slapshot1188 · December 2017

I think any game that offers loot box type purchases should be forced to list the odds on their purchase site. This goes for Hearthstone the same as for SWBF2 and all the others. This utterly unregulated "gambling" is ridiculous.

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Is Blizzard's hearthstone the next controversy for cash shop gambling?

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Is Blizzard's hearthstone the next controversy for cash shop gambling?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV