I have another beef with someone saying that it's not fair to other people who have played for awhile and put in effort if I can start an mmorpg pvp game and become competitive in a short time. Playing for awhile and putting in effort is something I have already done in mmorpgs a few times. I have or have had max level characters in three other mmorpgs. Sampled/tried many more.
Grinding again, grinding much, grinding more, grinding, grinding, grinding galore is not something I'm interested in doing in another (or other) mmorpg(s) in the hopes of possibly, possibly finding an mmorpg that actually has good (or even decent) pvp.
I don't see why I should need to grind more just to be able to find a game that might hopefully have some kind of fair, balanced, and competitive pvp. There's no reason why we need to grind much or grind at all in any mmorpg. There's more than one way to skin a cat, there's more than one way to make an mmorpg.
You're pretty much summing up the reasons why a huge portion of the PvP crowd plays MOBA's instead of MMOs. MMO PvP has practically ALWAYS been about gaining that unfair advantage over others, and then getting by on that as much as possible.
Some do it through gear (you have to collect the top tier PvP set through weeks of accruing battleground/arena/whatever currency), other do it through levels, and some do it through cash shops.
While on MOBAs and similar games, you go in, and you're immediately competitive. Aside from some passives, which you can generally get pretty quickly.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Crowfall is a group PvP game. Don't expect every class to be balanced against every other class 1 vs 1. It won't be. Furthermore, they are building a lot of customization options into the game, especially with the recent change from archetypes to race and class. If you put together a bad build, don't expect the devs to fix it for you.
Money is not a factor as the things you can buy in the store are only of use in EKs. The campaigns are where the PvP happens. Time is a factor, as it is in all MMOs, but not the biggest factor. Skills are passively trained in real time, so the longer you play, the more skills you will have. However, you won't get the benefit of all those skills at the same time. Skills trained in Confessor won't help you when playing a Druid. Skills trained in Blacksmithing won't help you when you are doing Runecrafting.
There will also be catch-up mechanics, though what exactly that will be, we don't know. Point is, players who join the game later will have ways to accelerate their training.
Skills are the only permanent part of advancement. Everything else is gear-based. Gear decays and must be replaced. It can be looted if it's in your inventory when you die. In some campaigns, players may be able to loot it off your body. Hell, in some campaigns, players may be able to loot your actual body. Players don't choose a race/class and play it forever (though you can). You are a crow, an immortal soul. You choose a vessel to inhabit and you will inhabit different vessels in different worlds. Disciplines are like sub-classes that you attach to your vessel and give you additional abilities and stats.
Some campaigns will have zero import, meaning you enter it without any gear at all. No vessel, no disciplines, no weapons or armor. Everyone enters on as close to equal footing as possible. The only advantage another player may have is that they have more experience playing the game and they have higher level skills.
Not solely. I want wit, skill, strategy, tactics/planning, and teamwork to all play a role and be the major factors in any single skirmish or long term campaign. I do not want levels and gear to be the only reasons one player or one team wins or loses. It's totally unrealistic. Actually, I don't want or need levels at all.
I know how to make an MMORPG like that. I've written about it extensively in the Pub section.
If I had the money, the facilities, and a skilled team of programmers and artists, I could start making it right now.
The only thing it sounds like you want is your youth back.
Something all adults who played MMOs in their youth have to accept at some point is that they no longer can invest the time of a child into a game. I like many others have swallowed this pill and still enjoy MMOs as much as I ever did. The sooner you swallow it too and realize the game you "describe" will never exist, and for good reason, the better your gaming experience will be.
Like others have said the closest thing you'll get is a MOBA.
Well, I won't play if they're selling in-game advantages or if the pvp isn't fair, balanced, and competitive.
I won't play if people can destroy me just because they've played longer or paid more. Or if I can do the same to other people. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
So, you should be competitive with ppl l have played for a while and gotten experience, items, armor and such from your first login? Purchased advantages I can see, effort based progression... Not so much.
I agree pretty much 100%. Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards. However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer. Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg. So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well, I won't play if they're selling in-game advantages or if the pvp isn't fair, balanced, and competitive.
I won't play if people can destroy me just because they've played longer or paid more. Or if I can do the same to other people. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
So, you should be competitive with ppl l have played for a while and gotten experience, items, armor and such from your first login? Purchased advantages I can see, effort based progression... Not so much.
I agree pretty much 100%. Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards. However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer. Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg. So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
This game does not have a cash shop as you describe... there is nothing and will be nothing that you can buy which will directly influence your individual power curve, period. All of the items for sale can only be placed and used in your EK (housing area). There will be no purchasable advantage other than buying a VIP subscription and that will still have limitations on PvP power curve. When you start testing with us you may get a more valid opinion.
Well, I won't play if they're selling in-game advantages or if the pvp isn't fair, balanced, and competitive.
I won't play if people can destroy me just because they've played longer or paid more. Or if I can do the same to other people. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
So, you should be competitive with ppl l have played for a while and gotten experience, items, armor and such from your first login? Purchased advantages I can see, effort based progression... Not so much.
I agree pretty much 100%. Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards. However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer. Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg. So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
This game does not have a cash shop as you describe... there is nothing and will be nothing that you can buy which will directly influence your individual power curve, period. All of the items for sale can only be placed and used in your EK (housing area). There will be no purchasable advantage other than buying a VIP subscription and that will still have limitations on PvP power curve. When you start testing with us you may get a more valid opinion.
You're talking to a wall, trust me. This happens to be a Crowfall thread but it really doesn't matter, he posts this stuff anywhere, no matter what topic.
OT, you are right, and I should really spend some time testing again soon, its been months.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Regarding gear progression. Very Horizontal is what they have said.
Examples from what I've seen and read. (no actual game stats are quoted here) Copper gear may protect you slightly more from slashing weapons, Iron maybe slightly more from piercing , Silver slightly more protection from magic. Who makes it will matter more than what material they use. No material is going to be massively better than the rest.
Well made copper armor should be better than poorly made mithril, depending on the opponent.
Wear armor statted up for melee swordfighting against a mage and it wont protect you from much. Wear armor specialized for deflecting slashing blows, and go up against someone good with a mace or staff and you will not have an easy time for sure.
Think again of EVE all the different counters to different sized ships. Just having a big bad ship in EVE with expensive loadouts doesn't make you a badass, even if you have all the skills. It makes you a target.
Piloting an expensive body in Crowfall, with expensive gear might give you a bit of an edge in 1on1 situations, but PVP games are very seldom 1on1. You had better have enough power to take on all comers, because you will be a big target on the battlefield.
And most of that power goes home with the winning side.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
cantankerousmage: I read what you want if your going to play....seems to me your looking for a fps. Nothing wrong with that, and I like your make it hurt idea. I don't however think your looking for a mmorpg as a great number of the things that will keep you from playing are things that are in mmos. Having read your lists, I suspect you won't be playing, but look forward to running into you in a fps, sounds like you might be a skilled shooter.
My question is, what is the cash shop for this? I've heard Crowfall players say there is one, others have said there isn't... I'm getting confused.
Didn't they just mention there will be microtransactions, but went no further in to the details?
Mostly to buy the game itself (it is B2P and not F2P), optional subscription VIP months, some small housing parcels and cottages, villas, manors, and some mounts (that you may lose to looting in game). Also Crowfall T-shirts, hats, covfefe mugs, JTodds smelly socks, Blairs public hairs and things lying around the studio...
Sounds like the OP has an issue with RPGs, as they're pretty much all 100% based around vertical character progression.
Something like Planetside 2 would better suit your tastes.
Whether we like it or not, levels and vertical power progression have been a part of RPGs since tabletop, and likely won't stop anytime soon. Finding an MMO game that isn't also RPG is not the easiest thing to do, but there's some games on the horizon claiming to gave left it behind. Time will tell how those turn out. Regardless, the traditional RPG features vertical character progression whether it be singleplayer, multiplayer or MMO.
Well, I won't play if they're selling in-game advantages or if the pvp isn't fair, balanced, and competitive.
I won't play if people can destroy me just because they've played longer or paid more. Or if I can do the same to other people. That doesn't sound like fun to me.
So, you should be competitive with ppl l have played for a while and gotten experience, items, armor and such from your first login? Purchased advantages I can see, effort based progression... Not so much.
I agree pretty much 100%. Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards. However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer. Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg. So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
Wrong again Wizardry, I mean how wrong can you be over and over and just keep repeating your misinformation. That is trolling 100%, you do not even understand how basic systems in Crowfall function. Please do not listen to this disturbed individual, what he says is not at all truthful. The only thing you need to buy from ACE is access to the client, the game is Buy2play with an optional subscription that gives more breadth of training but no further depth in training. What he was talking about from the ACE store were early backer packages that included fancy housing and other perks but nothing that gives advantage. These kickstarter packages are no longer available...
My question is, what is the cash shop for this? I've heard Crowfall players say there is one, others have said there isn't... I'm getting confused.
Didn't they just mention there will be microtransactions, but went no further in to the details?
There are no microtransactions in Crowfall, NO. The "Store" where you buy the game (it is not free to play and does not use that model) has packages that include the client download, a mount, a cottage for your personal housing and possible a few other fluff items but nothing you can use to gain power vs another player. There is no store item under $15 and none over $200... that is not the same as in-game microtransactions at all, those few trolls that say that are simply idiots.
Comments
Some do it through gear (you have to collect the top tier PvP set through weeks of accruing battleground/arena/whatever currency), other do it through levels, and some do it through cash shops.
While on MOBAs and similar games, you go in, and you're immediately competitive. Aside from some passives, which you can generally get pretty quickly.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Money is not a factor as the things you can buy in the store are only of use in EKs. The campaigns are where the PvP happens. Time is a factor, as it is in all MMOs, but not the biggest factor. Skills are passively trained in real time, so the longer you play, the more skills you will have. However, you won't get the benefit of all those skills at the same time. Skills trained in Confessor won't help you when playing a Druid. Skills trained in Blacksmithing won't help you when you are doing Runecrafting.
There will also be catch-up mechanics, though what exactly that will be, we don't know. Point is, players who join the game later will have ways to accelerate their training.
Skills are the only permanent part of advancement. Everything else is gear-based. Gear decays and must be replaced. It can be looted if it's in your inventory when you die. In some campaigns, players may be able to loot it off your body. Hell, in some campaigns, players may be able to loot your actual body. Players don't choose a race/class and play it forever (though you can). You are a crow, an immortal soul. You choose a vessel to inhabit and you will inhabit different vessels in different worlds. Disciplines are like sub-classes that you attach to your vessel and give you additional abilities and stats.
Some campaigns will have zero import, meaning you enter it without any gear at all. No vessel, no disciplines, no weapons or armor. Everyone enters on as close to equal footing as possible. The only advantage another player may have is that they have more experience playing the game and they have higher level skills.
That's about as fair as it gets.
Other than that, there will be different rulese t servers, from full loot ffa to faction vs faction to limited pvp.
Something all adults who played MMOs in their youth have to accept at some point is that they no longer can invest the time of a child into a game. I like many others have swallowed this pill and still enjoy MMOs as much as I ever did. The sooner you swallow it too and realize the game you "describe" will never exist, and for good reason, the better your gaming experience will be.
Like others have said the closest thing you'll get is a MOBA.
Role playing and immersion can never be replicated 100% in a game,so we have top use mechanics like levels and progression that yields rewards.
However cash shops have no business in our games,they do not support FUN,fairness or anything positive,they will endorse laziness,just buy what you could earn ,so yeah it is a total negative aspect of gaming.
ANY and i mean any developer that tries to tell gamer's they have cash shops to benefit us or both is a bullshit liar,the ONLY reason cash shops exist is to benefit the developer.
Not only does this game have a cash shop,what it sells should never be sold in a cash shop and only earned as part of the immersive experience in a rpg.
So this game is not operating fair or for the gamer and that turned me off from day 1.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This game does not have a cash shop as you describe... there is nothing and will be nothing that you can buy which will directly influence your individual power curve, period. All of the items for sale can only be placed and used in your EK (housing area). There will be no purchasable advantage other than buying a VIP subscription and that will still have limitations on PvP power curve. When you start testing with us you may get a more valid opinion.
OT, you are right, and I should really spend some time testing again soon, its been months.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Examples from what I've seen and read. (no actual game stats are quoted here)
Copper gear may protect you slightly more from slashing weapons, Iron maybe slightly more from piercing , Silver slightly more protection from magic. Who makes it will matter more than what material they use. No material is going to be massively better than the rest.
Well made copper armor should be better than poorly made mithril, depending on the opponent.
Wear armor statted up for melee swordfighting against a mage and it wont protect you from much.
Wear armor specialized for deflecting slashing blows, and go up against someone good with a mace or staff and you will not have an easy time for sure.
Think again of EVE all the different counters to different sized ships. Just having a big bad ship in EVE with expensive loadouts doesn't make you a badass, even if you have all the skills. It makes you a target.
Piloting an expensive body in Crowfall, with expensive gear might give you a bit of an edge in 1on1 situations, but PVP games are very seldom 1on1. You had better have enough power to take on all comers, because you will be a big target on the battlefield.
And most of that power goes home with the winning side.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
Didn't they just mention there will be microtransactions, but went no further in to the details?
Something like Planetside 2 would better suit your tastes.
Whether we like it or not, levels and vertical power progression have been a part of RPGs since tabletop, and likely won't stop anytime soon. Finding an MMO game that isn't also RPG is not the easiest thing to do, but there's some games on the horizon claiming to gave left it behind. Time will tell how those turn out. Regardless, the traditional RPG features vertical character progression whether it be singleplayer, multiplayer or MMO.