the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.
false, there isnt a MMO out there with more freedom in how your character is built. Endgame depends on what you are doing. If you are good and made a decent build on your way up, whatever you are doing pve or pvp should be fine.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.
false, there isnt a MMO out there with more freedom in how your character is built. Endgame depends on what you are doing. If you are good and made a decent build on your way up, whatever you are doing pve or pvp should be fine.
how is he false? there is no extra builds but two cookie cutter builds for end game for magicka and stamina on each class. Meta is meta, people are going to run to the highest dps builds for their classes and run those or get kicked because everyone is chasing leaderboards. And god forbid if you cant properly weave for sustain.
Meta builds are ok if you have no clue what to do..sure follow somebodies idea of how to play your toon.
but min/maxing isn't a requirement. The beauty of ESO is the freedom to play your own build. See how it can work, if its not working for your situation make adjustments. A lot of people who say "there's no freedom" or "you have to have a META in order to do content" are simply wrong and spreading false information. Stop trying to speed run trials and enjoy the game for what it is. Stop being upset when the works as intended. Your build didn't work because you don't know how to utilize it and you are trying to rush through the content. Slow down, use some trial and error and you will get there.
Knowing how to use what you have built is the only requirement in ESO.
You can have a meta build and still suck I've seen it.
edit: Learn what your skills do and when to use them. That's how you build out. Don't pick moves based on a meta and not know when and why you use them. only that "you need this move" isn't enough in eso. You need the why of it.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
you can always tell who has actually played a game to endgame here. All these people glamorizing the open ended builds of ESO have never played past vet dungeons which can pretty much be soloed by a stam sorc or a few other builds. ESO is probably the most restrictive meta build game on the market for anything end game. You are locked into two builds for each class for end game , stamina or magicka and any hybrid builds or weapons will get you instantly kicked from trials or vet dungeons. There is ZERO freedom in ESO endgame.
Just curious... are you talking about a stamsorc using Deadly Cloak or Shrouded Daggers? I've seen quite a bit of discussion about replacing DC which is currently the consensus part of the meta, with SD for a DPS increase.
See... even at the fine tuned (and limited by its own nature of trying to be THE -- as in singular... one -- best) meta discussion level there is freedom that give you options that are greater than zero. And that's just one ability where different endgame stamsorcs will slot differently. Bring gear into the discussion and the differences between perfectly capable hard mode trial stamsorcs will also increase exponentially.
The people who believe there is zero freedom are, I suspect, the readers not the doers. Because the doers are always fine tuning and coming up with further refinements.
(BTW I made the switch to SD on my stamsorc rotation and it works for me.)
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
the truth is in ESO's endgame is no freedom. if you wanna play the most challenging content you have to use meta builds.
false, there isnt a MMO out there with more freedom in how your character is built. Endgame depends on what you are doing. If you are good and made a decent build on your way up, whatever you are doing pve or pvp should be fine.
how is he false? there is no extra builds but two cookie cutter builds for end game for magicka and stamina on each class. Meta is meta, people are going to run to the highest dps builds for their classes and run those or get kicked because everyone is chasing leaderboards. And god forbid if you cant properly weave for sustain.
Are you speed running trials?
edit: Also I can think of 10 ways to run Templar btw thats more than 2 and thats just 1 base class
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
the way i look at ESO is its create a class, yea they offer a base class but where that goes is up to you. Thats the fun part.. making adjustments. You dont need a meta to play content. Just need to know what you have built and how to use it.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
1-50 your free to roll and build any class you wish and not run into too much difficultly. You might get some push back in dungeons for running certain builds, but you have the most freedom . Once you hit the vet modes that goes out the window. See how often you get invited as a DPS warden to groups or even as a healer for that matter? They don't even want to see what you can do, it's most times and automatic no. Lots of freedom there.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
For me, the trinity is too limited. Tank, heals and dps......too boring. By only having 3 roles you greatly limit the diversity of the content. Everything basically boils down to tank'n'spank with some movement thrown in. It can still be challenging of course, just not very diverse which means boredom kicks in sooner.
I prefer trinity+: tank, heals, dps AND buffers, debuffers, crowd control and whatever else you want to add.
Adding more roles allows developers to design more diverse types of content and allows players much greater freedom in how they approach content. The roles allow you to balance out player's strengths and weaknesses. For example, if your tank is a bit shit, you can drop a dps spot and bring a CC so that the adds can be kept under control. Maybe your healer isn't great, so bring a buffer to give you that extra margin of safety.
I also don't believe that a role-based design precludes freedom. You can still allow people to switch roles, either like ESO or FFXIV where one character can learn every role, or like LotRO / SW:TOR where most classes have 2 roles they can fill. I'm fine with that, as long as the content still requires roles to complete.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
These threads on ESO are always amusing: you get some people lamenting that the game sux because there is no trinity, some saying it sux because there is a trinity and not enough flexibility in builds, and others saying it sux because they don't want so much flexibility, lol.
The truth is, if you really want "trinity" gameplay there is plenty of content that caters to that in ESO, if you want flexibility you can have it even in a lot of "end-game" content; however, if you just want a set class with no real choices its probably not the game for you.
The reason why the Trinity system in ESO is lacking is because the game is an Action Combat system. Action Combat like ESO kills the trinity system period. This is why ESO is a great Single player game and maybe even a good PVP game. But that is it. It is shit as an MMORPG. I would rather take a UO2 with not true trinity but still is designed for players to work together. ESO is just a single player game.
lol, hard metas are not the only builds that work at endgame. Adjustments can make normal builds compete. there are different ways of gaining the same type of buffs and debuffs. with the use of pots, good resource mgmt, racial buffs, enchants, Mundus stones, what set you run, and how you spend cp and attributes, you can really design a build that's just as good as metas or (Better) and most importantly FUN for YOU to play.
How are people saying there isn't flexibility? There are literally hundreds of thousands of options to build a toon. Think about how many results you can get out of 200+ Gearsets, 5 classes, 350+ Skillpoints, 600 Champion Points. You can follow the meta or take the DnD approach and really build out your character. As long as you make what role you want to fit in it does not matter how you do it. IE a tank can be defensive and hard to kill or You could make a more Offensive Tank that has some serious crit but that's sacrificing some defense to hit harder and that's all up to you and your group. Lots of builds work more than you think but a lot of it requires you stop trying to force "the meta" on people. My meta isn't your meta.
Again you need to make adjustments to get what you want. The game has more options than people know.
Don't forget to have fun, it's still a game so don't worry so much about how meta you are or not and just play whats fun. Get some friends in game that are willing to help you build out and try some practice runs.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
you can always tell who has actually played a game to endgame here. All these people glamorizing the open ended builds of ESO have never played past vet dungeons which can pretty much be soloed by a stam sorc or a few other builds. ESO is probably the most restrictive meta build game on the market for anything end game. You are locked into two builds for each class for end game , stamina or magicka and any hybrid builds or weapons will get you instantly kicked from trials or vet dungeons. There is ZERO freedom in ESO endgame.
Yes, we can tell.. /facepalm “locked in to stamina or magicka” huh..
1-50 your free to roll and build any class you wish and not run into too much difficultly. You might get some push back in dungeons for running certain builds, but you have the most freedom . Once you hit the vet modes that goes out the window. See how often you get invited as a DPS warden to groups or even as a healer for that matter? They don't even want to see what you can do, it's most times and automatic no. Lots of freedom there.
This.
Meta's develop in every game but 200% + performance boosts make preferential builds into requirements. Runaway train.
The reason why the Trinity system in ESO is lacking is because the game is an Action Combat system. Action Combat like ESO kills the trinity system period. This is why ESO is a great Single player game and maybe even a good PVP game. But that is it. It is shit as an MMORPG. I would rather take a UO2 with not true trinity but still is designed for players to work together. ESO is just a single player game.
Tera has action combat and trinity so clearly you are wrong.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Trinity system is WAY better for ALL end game content, no tanks with taunt and no "dedicated" healer in raids and dungeons and just stupid and caotic, still no game that have mastered it.
And playing support or tank role in a game without the trinity system is useless.
Is an action mmorpg you can dodge roll and block attacks and the problem with this is the lazy people who just join to instances to press some keys leaving all the work to healers and getting mad if the healer do a mistake
Is an action mmorpg you can dodge roll and block attacks and the problem with this is the lazy people who just join to instances to press some keys leaving all the work to healers and getting mad if the healer do a mistake
In my experience incompetent players get mad at all the wrong people
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Trinity system is WAY better for ALL end game content, no tanks with taunt and no "dedicated" healer in raids and dungeons and just stupid and caotic, still no game that have mastered it.
And playing support or tank role in a game without the trinity system is useless.
That may be so, but just to note that ESO is a "trinity" system in raids and dungeons. I just left a dungeon because the "tank" refused to put an agro holding skill on his bar. No way I'll play unless there is a proper healer, tank and at least decent dps.
This article is fundamentally flawed. It's the same argument as doing a Mythic Keystone dungeon up to a certain level without a healer in World of Warcraft. Gear, levels, and progression allow the player to delete archetypes from the trinity up to a certain point in some content.
However, what the author fails to realize is that the trinity is required in most endgame content. Endgame content would be defined as Veteran Dungeons with the Hard Mode scroll enabled at the end, allowing you to receive two pledge keys instead of one. Good luck doing that without tanks and healers.
All trials require at least one tank with all Veteran trials requiring two and multiple healers. The normal dungeons in this game are very, very easy while DLC dungeons with veteran hard mode are nearly impossible for a good amount of players. Based on the CP the author has in that screen shot it's clear he hasn't played for very long nor does he have a good grasp on the end game content or how it works.
Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun Hard Mode without a tank or healer? Not going to happen.
Veteran Imperial City Prison Hard Mode without a tank or healer? Not going to happen.
Cradle of Shadows on Vet Hard Mode? Good luck even beating it.
Vet trials without a trinity? Good luck.
Horns of the Reach dungeons like Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold on Vet Hard Mode? Yeah, good luck.
I think this author needs to really experience the full game before making these generalized posts.
Lastly, he's running around with a broken weapon which indicates he is doing trivial content, only plays for write ups, or just doesn't care. It's indicated by the red bow at the bottom of his screen. Try doing actual content with broken gear or gear that hasn't been recharged with soul stones. This isn't a person that is involved in all facets of the game.
This article is fundamentally flawed. It's the same argument as doing a Mythic Keystone dungeon up to a certain level without a healer in World of Warcraft. Gear, levels, and progression allow the player to delete archetypes from the trinity up to a certain point in some content.
However, what the author fails to realize is that the trinity is required in most endgame content. Endgame content would be defined as Veteran Dungeons with the Hard Mode scroll enabled at the end, allowing you to receive two pledge keys instead of one. Good luck doing that without tanks and healers.
All trials require at least one tank with all Veteran trials requiring two and multiple healers. The normal dungeons in this game are very, very easy while DLC dungeons with veteran hard mode are nearly impossible for a good amount of players. Based on the CP the author has in that screen shot it's clear he hasn't played for very long nor does he have a good grasp on the end game content or how it works.
I also think new players will need a proper tank/healer/dps setup even running normal dungeons.
I pug queue for the daily random dungeon when leveling up alts (because it gives a lot of xp), and am often grouped with below level 50 players with no xp, mediocre gear, and little knowledge of game mechanics. These groups would not make it through without a dedicated healer and a tank, even though the content is a cakewalk for more experienced players.
I'll be honest, I like/prefer roles, but I dislike the strict Tank/Healer/DPS role. I'm more interested in the Everquest/GW2 style where all players are expected to DPS to some extent and their roles are more broken into Tank, Offensive Support, Healer, Defensive Support, and Crowd Control. It allows players to play more to how they want while maintaining some sort of specific role in more difficult and organized content.
Take the GW2 Druid. There are generally two common builds I've heard of:
1. The Condi Druid Raid build where the Druid provides secondary DoT DPS when not healing, as well as, offensive buff support.
2. The Healing Druid which provides high healing output + offensive support + crowd control (through pets).
In both cases a single class specialization (Ranger's Druid spec) provides multiple roles within group rather than a single static role allowing for more variety in play.
In both cases a single class specialization (Ranger's Druid spec) provides multiple roles within group rather than a single static role allowing for more variety in play.
ESO does this very well even allowing you to react to group composition by choosing to slot or not slot specific skills in the middle of a dungeon run.
When I queue for a random pick up group dungeon as DPS I don't go into it thinking that the tank will be great at gathering and rooting add packs or that the healer will be great at healing and buffing/debuffing. I deliberately slot my own CC, group heals and buffs in case they're needed despite the fact that by doing this I'm going in with less than my best DPS build. If by the luck of the draw it turns out that the group has a great tank and healer, I'll revert to my full-on DPS build.
I do the same with my tanks and healers adding whatever is needed to make up for group deficiencies.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
false, there isnt a MMO out there with more freedom in how your character is built. Endgame depends on what you are doing. If you are good and made a decent build on your way up, whatever you are doing pve or pvp should be fine.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
but min/maxing isn't a requirement. The beauty of ESO is the freedom to play your own build. See how it can work, if its not working for your situation make adjustments. A lot of people who say "there's no freedom" or "you have to have a META in order to do content" are simply wrong and spreading false information. Stop trying to speed run trials and enjoy the game for what it is. Stop being upset when the works as intended. Your build didn't work because you don't know how to utilize it and you are trying to rush through the content. Slow down, use some trial and error and you will get there.
Knowing how to use what you have built is the only requirement in ESO.
You can have a meta build and still suck I've seen it.
edit: Learn what your skills do and when to use them. That's how you build out. Don't pick moves based on a meta and not know when and why you use them. only that "you need this move" isn't enough in eso. You need the why of it.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
See... even at the fine tuned (and limited by its own nature of trying to be THE -- as in singular... one -- best) meta discussion level there is freedom that give you options that are greater than zero. And that's just one ability where different endgame stamsorcs will slot differently. Bring gear into the discussion and the differences between perfectly capable hard mode trial stamsorcs will also increase exponentially.
The people who believe there is zero freedom are, I suspect, the readers not the doers. Because the doers are always fine tuning and coming up with further refinements.
(BTW I made the switch to SD on my stamsorc rotation and it works for me.)
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Are you speed running trials?
edit: Also I can think of 10 ways to run Templar btw thats more than 2 and thats just 1 base class
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
For me, the trinity is too limited. Tank, heals and dps......too boring. By only having 3 roles you greatly limit the diversity of the content. Everything basically boils down to tank'n'spank with some movement thrown in. It can still be challenging of course, just not very diverse which means boredom kicks in sooner.
I prefer trinity+: tank, heals, dps AND buffers, debuffers, crowd control and whatever else you want to add.
Adding more roles allows developers to design more diverse types of content and allows players much greater freedom in how they approach content. The roles allow you to balance out player's strengths and weaknesses. For example, if your tank is a bit shit, you can drop a dps spot and bring a CC so that the adds can be kept under control. Maybe your healer isn't great, so bring a buffer to give you that extra margin of safety.
I also don't believe that a role-based design precludes freedom. You can still allow people to switch roles, either like ESO or FFXIV where one character can learn every role, or like LotRO / SW:TOR where most classes have 2 roles they can fill. I'm fine with that, as long as the content still requires roles to complete.
The truth is, if you really want "trinity" gameplay there is plenty of content that caters to that in ESO, if you want flexibility you can have it even in a lot of "end-game" content; however, if you just want a set class with no real choices its probably not the game for you.
How are people saying there isn't flexibility? There are literally hundreds of thousands of options to build a toon. Think about how many results you can get out of 200+ Gearsets, 5 classes, 350+ Skillpoints, 600 Champion Points. You can follow the meta or take the DnD approach and really build out your character. As long as you make what role you want to fit in it does not matter how you do it. IE a tank can be defensive and hard to kill or You could make a more Offensive Tank that has some serious crit but that's sacrificing some defense to hit harder and that's all up to you and your group. Lots of builds work more than you think but a lot of it requires you stop trying to force "the meta" on people. My meta isn't your meta.
Again you need to make adjustments to get what you want. The game has more options than people know.
Don't forget to have fun, it's still a game so don't worry so much about how meta you are or not and just play whats fun. Get some friends in game that are willing to help you build out and try some practice runs.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I’m at work... i’ll just leave it at that.
Meta's develop in every game but 200% + performance boosts make preferential builds into requirements. Runaway train.
And playing support or tank role in a game without the trinity system is useless.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
That may be so, but just to note that ESO is a "trinity" system in raids and dungeons. I just left a dungeon because the "tank" refused to put an agro holding skill on his bar. No way I'll play unless there is a proper healer, tank and at least decent dps.
However, what the author fails to realize is that the trinity is required in most endgame content. Endgame content would be defined as Veteran Dungeons with the Hard Mode scroll enabled at the end, allowing you to receive two pledge keys instead of one. Good luck doing that without tanks and healers.
All trials require at least one tank with all Veteran trials requiring two and multiple healers. The normal dungeons in this game are very, very easy while DLC dungeons with veteran hard mode are nearly impossible for a good amount of players. Based on the CP the author has in that screen shot it's clear he hasn't played for very long nor does he have a good grasp on the end game content or how it works.
Veteran Ruins of Mazzatun Hard Mode without a tank or healer? Not going to happen.
Veteran Imperial City Prison Hard Mode without a tank or healer? Not going to happen.
Cradle of Shadows on Vet Hard Mode? Good luck even beating it.
Vet trials without a trinity? Good luck.
Horns of the Reach dungeons like Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold on Vet Hard Mode? Yeah, good luck.
I think this author needs to really experience the full game before making these generalized posts.
Lastly, he's running around with a broken weapon which indicates he is doing trivial content, only plays for write ups, or just doesn't care. It's indicated by the red bow at the bottom of his screen. Try doing actual content with broken gear or gear that hasn't been recharged with soul stones. This isn't a person that is involved in all facets of the game.
I pug queue for the daily random dungeon when leveling up alts (because it gives a lot of xp), and am often grouped with below level 50 players with no xp, mediocre gear, and little knowledge of game mechanics. These groups would not make it through without a dedicated healer and a tank, even though the content is a cakewalk for more experienced players.
Take the GW2 Druid. There are generally two common builds I've heard of:
1. The Condi Druid Raid build where the Druid provides secondary DoT DPS when not healing, as well as, offensive buff support.
2. The Healing Druid which provides high healing output + offensive support + crowd control (through pets).
In both cases a single class specialization (Ranger's Druid spec) provides multiple roles within group rather than a single static role allowing for more variety in play.
When I queue for a random pick up group dungeon as DPS I don't go into it thinking that the tank will be great at gathering and rooting add packs or that the healer will be great at healing and buffing/debuffing. I deliberately slot my own CC, group heals and buffs in case they're needed despite the fact that by doing this I'm going in with less than my best DPS build. If by the luck of the draw it turns out that the group has a great tank and healer, I'll revert to my full-on DPS build.
I do the same with my tanks and healers adding whatever is needed to make up for group deficiencies.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED