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The Value of Player Achievement: Single-player RPGs vs MMORPGs
Consuetudo
Member UncommonPosts: 191
Generally, single player rpgs are meant to be beaten. You start off humbly, progress through a story with challenges, defeat the final boss, and call it a day (there are exceptions of course but this seems typical), game over.
The multiplayer RPG is decidedly different: while you might start off humbly, etc etc, once you have defeated the final boss, the game is not over. Another person is starting off humbly, another has yet to defeat the final boss, etc. It really doesn't matter then if you have defeated the final boss, as he is never actually beaten: he respawns. In this capacity, the final boss could just as well not exist at all, for he seems utterly unimportant if my killing him has failed to eradicate his menace. He simply comes back, and another kills him.
Any MMORPG then that calls me a "hero" for defeating a certain boss is lying. I have done nothing. I am not a hero.
On the contrary, what matters is those little things I do that are stable and persist. When I collect a bunch of flowers and another player buys them, I have mattered. When I mine a node and steal it from another player, there too I have mattered. If we are not in an instance and I kill a boss another player was looking for, there I mattered too: not because I killed the boss, but because I prevented another player from doing so.
Emotionally, in a philosophical sense, the value of my achievements in an MMORPG is WAY more than that of a single player game. My single player experiences matter to me alone. My multiplayer experiences can affect a world.
MMOs should reflect this. We as players should build cities, carve out mountains, deforest trees, plant gardens, form factions, lead armies, etc. THAT is the potential this genre has, and which seems utterly neglected. I have been waiting for this for over a decade now and remain disappointed.
The multiplayer RPG is decidedly different: while you might start off humbly, etc etc, once you have defeated the final boss, the game is not over. Another person is starting off humbly, another has yet to defeat the final boss, etc. It really doesn't matter then if you have defeated the final boss, as he is never actually beaten: he respawns. In this capacity, the final boss could just as well not exist at all, for he seems utterly unimportant if my killing him has failed to eradicate his menace. He simply comes back, and another kills him.
Any MMORPG then that calls me a "hero" for defeating a certain boss is lying. I have done nothing. I am not a hero.
On the contrary, what matters is those little things I do that are stable and persist. When I collect a bunch of flowers and another player buys them, I have mattered. When I mine a node and steal it from another player, there too I have mattered. If we are not in an instance and I kill a boss another player was looking for, there I mattered too: not because I killed the boss, but because I prevented another player from doing so.
Emotionally, in a philosophical sense, the value of my achievements in an MMORPG is WAY more than that of a single player game. My single player experiences matter to me alone. My multiplayer experiences can affect a world.
MMOs should reflect this. We as players should build cities, carve out mountains, deforest trees, plant gardens, form factions, lead armies, etc. THAT is the potential this genre has, and which seems utterly neglected. I have been waiting for this for over a decade now and remain disappointed.
Comments
For example, I have always had this idea in mind for over a decade now: bring RTS elements to MMORPG PvP.
Perhaps you store out with a fairly typical world with pre-existing cities and factions etc. As players move up in power, they start to be integrated into the running of the city--let's limit that just now to the military. You have a player up top as general who coordinates the faction. He gives custom quests out that are seen by all the members of that faction, and then they get rewards from the treasury of the faction, which could be comprised of donations etc. Like a commander mode.
Even that would be a start. You could have a whole game revolving around this single element and that would be, for me, infinitely preferable to everything we have now.
Sure selling stuff is part of an economy but MOST of these games are eliminating that initial push and care little for new players as every new piece of content alienates old content and basically turns old zones into ghost towns.
I call this simple connect the dots,LINEAR gaming,imo these developers the Blizzards,the TESO's,the GW2's all know nothing about designing a MMORPG,they are still building SINGLE player games with a login screen.
The game most certainly does END in these lame ass designs because you are no longer playing the entire game and it's world you are usually loot grinding in some INSTANCE fighting that BOSS at the end of the tunnel.
So the EXACT same design as a single player game,only you can look at new content as a new single player game all fancy dancy with a login screen that is there so they can have an ongoing cash shop that would not be viable in a single player game,unless of course going loot boxes.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The problem with the idea you have, and I do like the idea, is that not everyone has the time to live in an MMORPG. Personally, I despise MMOs that require me to log in every day instead of helping me want to. I put many hours into EQ because I wanted to, not because I had to. As soon as I logged pout of EQ, I'd be planning my activities for my next log in.
What MMOs bring to the table is that your actions can and will effect other players. Without a mechanic to hinder this, it's very one-sided and not very fun for way too many players. Adding that mechanic kind of defeats the purpose of the game, though.
Also, your opening sentence sat totally wrong with me. Single Player RPGs are all about "the journey" for me, not "beating them", as you feel. That's just a difference in player attitude more than anything else, neither right nor wrong. I still play Morrowind, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and NV to this day, nearly a decade or more later. I do agree, however, that these certainly can (and have) be played as being beaten.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If you enter into the quest and you follow it's rules and you beat the big bad then you are a hero.
What? You don't think you are the hero? Well, according to the "game" you are. Just as much of a hero as if you killed a dragon in skyrim. What? You aren't the hero? Well, in skyrim it does take its sweet time but if anyone witnesses you killing the dragon then you are a hero. It's a downfall of the game.
I get what you are saying, because you affected "a player" you mattered. But here's the thing, that only matters in games where selling items to players truly "matters".
If you don't care about quests and killing the big bad then don't play those games. Problem solved.
Multiplayer experiences only affect the world if the game is set up that way. If it isn't you might as well go and kill more bosses because at least the game will tell you it mattered. To the players, in a theme park world, you only matter as much as other players think you matter.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Seems to me OP would be happier in something with stronger sandbox elements, but pure sandbox is not the saviour of MMOs that many here think it to be. For me and I know its a big ask, a sandbox MMO sandwich with theme park meat would be my ideal.
If you want real achievement, build a career, write a book, be successful in your marriage, raise good kids, ...
Games are just entertainment. Let them "fake" your achievement and enjoy the psychological high for 15 min. This is no different than shouting "yay" seeing the Avengers assembled for the first time on an IMAX screen.
There was a study done from Harvard about what makes people the happiest. It isnt money, it isnt material success, it is relationships with people. Things that ultimately just lead to neurotransmitter release in your brain.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
And no, it is not about money ... career achievements are way beyond that. Look at Elon Musk .. he is doing it to change the world, money is just a by-product.