The idea of passing on P2W benefits to other players is intriguing, there is a P2W balance if players are "covered" by the benefits they get from a player who plays more. But I think in practice it will not work like this, players are notorious for abusing game systems, set up your P2W any way you like and they will exploit it.
This practice has been going on for a long time since P2W hit MMO's really.
Let me give an example of my own. I was playing DDO, and in that game guilds had Airships, some you could earn, some you could buy. The ones you could buy offered a little more and looked cooler.
So, when I bought an Airship for my guild, everyone in the guild regardless of how much or little they spent on the game or even played in the game for that matter, gained all the benefits of the additional buffs and pretty atmosphere that the ship I bought provided them.
Equally so there were some buffs for the Airship that I could buy with in-game gold or cash, but, any buff I bought would be shared with everyone in the guild, so if I bought a buff with cash because it wanted the more power or benefit, everyone else in my guild also got the same boons.
Now a lot of MMO's that have the option for buying Guild/Community based stuff often provide this kind of blanket boon to all the people that chose to affiliate or associate with the big spenders, and thus share in the reward or boons for such, even if they paid nothing themselves.
CoE, looks like it does something along these lines, but with more tiers. IE:
Everyone that sides with a specific King gains all the boons that the King buys for their Kingdom.
Everyone that sides with a Baron, would gain all the boons that the Baron buys for their barony.
Etc, etc... so they get the rewards going down.. all the Kingdom Rewards, all the Barony rewards, and down they go.
Like for example,if a Baron buys a full town, with shop keepers, a Smith, Mill, etc.. I get to use all those things, and enjoy what they invested into the game, even if I didn't invest anything, simply by opting to affiliate myself with them.
So.. it happens, some games have better set ups then others.. so I have no idea how CoE will handle this.. they could rock it.. or they could sink it.. we shall see.
But the potential is there.
Interesting example, but I don't know of another example on the industry where real cash is spent on group buffs, as opposed to singular benefits to the spender. Certainly, nothing widespread enough to call it a trend.
I'll admit that I don't play a massive variety of MMO's.. my last two long time invested F2P MMOs were GW2 and DDO. And GW2, does not have anything that could be called P2W in it, it's all cosmetics, But that did not stop people from calling selling a mount skin (yes.. just the skin.. no special abilities or features.. just a skin) P2W, because GW2 wanted 20 dollars for it. But moving on from that silly stuff.
GW2 did offer Guild Hall decorations that could be bought, and thus anyone that donated to the decoration would have it contribute to the guild as a whole, so everyone in the guild could enjoy it, even if they donated nothing to the guild as a whole. While, Not a Power Up.. but in a game all about looks.. it was still a way to share the wealth among your guild mates.
Another minor example, is Trove, in Trove guild halls could be seriously tricked out with massive displays and the like, as well as crafting stations, portals, and other things of convenience, that everyone in the guild could enjoy even if they donated nothing to their creation.
So I have no idea what other games do, but often enough, in games with Guild Halls or Shared Guild Boons, there is an inherent shearing of the wealth, no matter the payment method of the boon or hall. Where even those that play little get the rewards of those that play lots, and those that spend little get the rewards of those that spend lots.
But again.. gonna say my sampling and GaF about how some other games do things.. is very limited.
GW2 has legit RMT. You can buy in game currency with a CC. This is a problem in any game with an economy.
Why ?
Cause it ties prices of In-Game items to out of game wealth.
It creates unlimited in game currency, which creates inflation. If the game doesn’t easily allow you to farm currency in large quantities, this leaves you disadvantaged when you do not buy currency, because it takes you significantly longer to farm currency that can be bought instantly by others.
I’m not sure how these problems aren’t obvious. Lineage II is a great example of this.
The idea of passing on P2W benefits to other players is intriguing, there is a P2W balance if players are "covered" by the benefits they get from a player who plays more. But I think in practice it will not work like this, players are notorious for abusing game systems, set up your P2W any way you like and they will exploit it.
This practice has been going on for a long time since P2W hit MMO's really.
Let me give an example of my own. I was playing DDO, and in that game guilds had Airships, some you could earn, some you could buy. The ones you could buy offered a little more and looked cooler.
So, when I bought an Airship for my guild, everyone in the guild regardless of how much or little they spent on the game or even played in the game for that matter, gained all the benefits of the additional buffs and pretty atmosphere that the ship I bought provided them.
Equally so there were some buffs for the Airship that I could buy with in-game gold or cash, but, any buff I bought would be shared with everyone in the guild, so if I bought a buff with cash because it wanted the more power or benefit, everyone else in my guild also got the same boons.
Now a lot of MMO's that have the option for buying Guild/Community based stuff often provide this kind of blanket boon to all the people that chose to affiliate or associate with the big spenders, and thus share in the reward or boons for such, even if they paid nothing themselves.
CoE, looks like it does something along these lines, but with more tiers. IE:
Everyone that sides with a specific King gains all the boons that the King buys for their Kingdom.
Everyone that sides with a Baron, would gain all the boons that the Baron buys for their barony.
Etc, etc... so they get the rewards going down.. all the Kingdom Rewards, all the Barony rewards, and down they go.
Like for example,if a Baron buys a full town, with shop keepers, a Smith, Mill, etc.. I get to use all those things, and enjoy what they invested into the game, even if I didn't invest anything, simply by opting to affiliate myself with them.
So.. it happens, some games have better set ups then others.. so I have no idea how CoE will handle this.. they could rock it.. or they could sink it.. we shall see.
But the potential is there.
Interesting example, but I don't know of another example on the industry where real cash is spent on group buffs, as opposed to singular benefits to the spender. Certainly, nothing widespread enough to call it a trend.
I'll admit that I don't play a massive variety of MMO's.. my last two long time invested F2P MMOs were GW2 and DDO. And GW2, does not have anything that could be called P2W in it, it's all cosmetics, But that did not stop people from calling selling a mount skin (yes.. just the skin.. no special abilities or features.. just a skin) P2W, because GW2 wanted 20 dollars for it. But moving on from that silly stuff.
GW2 did offer Guild Hall decorations that could be bought, and thus anyone that donated to the decoration would have it contribute to the guild as a whole, so everyone in the guild could enjoy it, even if they donated nothing to the guild as a whole. While, Not a Power Up.. but in a game all about looks.. it was still a way to share the wealth among your guild mates.
Another minor example, is Trove, in Trove guild halls could be seriously tricked out with massive displays and the like, as well as crafting stations, portals, and other things of convenience, that everyone in the guild could enjoy even if they donated nothing to their creation.
So I have no idea what other games do, but often enough, in games with Guild Halls or Shared Guild Boons, there is an inherent shearing of the wealth, no matter the payment method of the boon or hall. Where even those that play little get the rewards of those that play lots, and those that spend little get the rewards of those that spend lots.
But again.. gonna say my sampling and GaF about how some other games do things.. is very limited.
GW2 has legit RMT. You can buy in game currency with a CC. This is a problem in any game with an economy.
Why ?
Cause it ties prices of In-Game items to out of game wealth.
It creates unlimited in game currency, which creates inflation. If the game doesn’t easily allow you to farm currency in large quantities, this leaves you disadvantaged when you do not buy currency, because it takes you significantly longer to farm currency that can be bought instantly by others.
I’m not sure how these problems aren’t obvious. Lineage II is a great example of this.
It seems the economy is often used to shield P2W elements of games. If you need a ton of gold to buy top gear or upgrade it and there are cash shop methods for obtaining gold, such as selling on cosmetics that's what's going to happen.
The idea of passing on P2W benefits to other players is intriguing, there is a P2W balance if players are "covered" by the benefits they get from a player who plays more. But I think in practice it will not work like this, players are notorious for abusing game systems, set up your P2W any way you like and they will exploit it.
This practice has been going on for a long time since P2W hit MMO's really.
Let me give an example of my own. I was playing DDO, and in that game guilds had Airships, some you could earn, some you could buy. The ones you could buy offered a little more and looked cooler.
So, when I bought an Airship for my guild, everyone in the guild regardless of how much or little they spent on the game or even played in the game for that matter, gained all the benefits of the additional buffs and pretty atmosphere that the ship I bought provided them.
Equally so there were some buffs for the Airship that I could buy with in-game gold or cash, but, any buff I bought would be shared with everyone in the guild, so if I bought a buff with cash because it wanted the more power or benefit, everyone else in my guild also got the same boons.
Now a lot of MMO's that have the option for buying Guild/Community based stuff often provide this kind of blanket boon to all the people that chose to affiliate or associate with the big spenders, and thus share in the reward or boons for such, even if they paid nothing themselves.
CoE, looks like it does something along these lines, but with more tiers. IE:
Everyone that sides with a specific King gains all the boons that the King buys for their Kingdom.
Everyone that sides with a Baron, would gain all the boons that the Baron buys for their barony.
Etc, etc... so they get the rewards going down.. all the Kingdom Rewards, all the Barony rewards, and down they go.
Like for example,if a Baron buys a full town, with shop keepers, a Smith, Mill, etc.. I get to use all those things, and enjoy what they invested into the game, even if I didn't invest anything, simply by opting to affiliate myself with them.
So.. it happens, some games have better set ups then others.. so I have no idea how CoE will handle this.. they could rock it.. or they could sink it.. we shall see.
But the potential is there.
Interesting example, but I don't know of another example on the industry where real cash is spent on group buffs, as opposed to singular benefits to the spender. Certainly, nothing widespread enough to call it a trend.
I'll admit that I don't play a massive variety of MMO's.. my last two long time invested F2P MMOs were GW2 and DDO. And GW2, does not have anything that could be called P2W in it, it's all cosmetics, But that did not stop people from calling selling a mount skin (yes.. just the skin.. no special abilities or features.. just a skin) P2W, because GW2 wanted 20 dollars for it. But moving on from that silly stuff.
GW2 did offer Guild Hall decorations that could be bought, and thus anyone that donated to the decoration would have it contribute to the guild as a whole, so everyone in the guild could enjoy it, even if they donated nothing to the guild as a whole. While, Not a Power Up.. but in a game all about looks.. it was still a way to share the wealth among your guild mates.
Another minor example, is Trove, in Trove guild halls could be seriously tricked out with massive displays and the like, as well as crafting stations, portals, and other things of convenience, that everyone in the guild could enjoy even if they donated nothing to their creation.
So I have no idea what other games do, but often enough, in games with Guild Halls or Shared Guild Boons, there is an inherent shearing of the wealth, no matter the payment method of the boon or hall. Where even those that play little get the rewards of those that play lots, and those that spend little get the rewards of those that spend lots.
But again.. gonna say my sampling and GaF about how some other games do things.. is very limited.
GW2 has legit RMT. You can buy in game currency with a CC. This is a problem in any game with an economy.
Why ?
Cause it ties prices of In-Game items to out of game wealth.
It creates unlimited in game currency, which creates inflation. If the game doesn’t easily allow you to farm currency in large quantities, this leaves you disadvantaged when you do not buy currency, because it takes you significantly longer to farm currency that can be bought instantly by others.
I’m not sure how these problems aren’t obvious. Lineage II is a great example of this.
It seems the economy is often used to shield P2W elements of games. If you need a ton of gold to buy top gear or upgrade it and there are cash shop methods for obtaining gold, such as selling on cosmetics that's what's going to happen.
I think that's the point. Make the items from the cash shop Bound to the Character or Account that bought it. Don't allow people to just sell them, as this will basically create a legitimate RMT market within the game, which will bring in [more] Gold Farmers and inflate prices. It completely jacks up the economy, and in some cases, completely ruins the gameplay when players have to compete with farmers for XP spots, etc.
The fact that they sell cosmetics on the store isn't an issue. The fact that store-exclusive cosmetics are used as a way to "legally break the rules" and turn RL$ into in-game currency IS a problem. This is easily fixable by simply binding the cosmetics to the account, but the companies in charge are so desperate for revenue that they allow this to continue because it fuels store sales.
Meanwhile, the in-game economy suffers because as more people on a server get gold (easily spread around by simply buying cosmetics and selling them to richer players), the average wealth across the player base rises and therefore prices are jacked up to take advantage of this. This is all well and good, until a new players starts playing and realizes that the only way to get anything is by reselling cosmetics (bought with RL$ from the shop) or straight up eBaying gold from farmers.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes. Because Free 2 Play (F2P) is not a contractual obligation, it’s a marketing ploy. No group has been able to sue a company for not being “Free Enough to Play.” Most countries do have laws that criminalize interference with business, and that is what claims of P2W are. Most companies hit by claims of P2W don’t have the money to fight it, but eventually they will. Free speech ends when it tresspasses anothers rights, and that is what claims of P2W does. P2W is done right, it’s Play4Free (P4F) that is done wrong and can’t be fixed. The P4F gamers’ days are coming to an end, and so is their freedom.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Yes. Because Free 2 Play (F2P) is not a contractual obligation, it’s a marketing ploy. No group has been able to sue a company for not being “Free Enough to Play.” Most countries do have laws that criminalize interference with business, and that is what claims of P2W are. Most companies hit by claims of P2W don’t have the money to fight it, but eventually they will. Free speech ends when it tresspasses anothers rights, and that is what claims of P2W does. P2W is done right, it’s Play4Free (P4F) that is done wrong and can’t be fixed. The P4F gamers’ days are coming to an end, and so is their freedom.
I agree with this. I am sure people spending the money and enjoying the game aren't the ones bitching about it. they aren't saying p2w. Too many people feel entitled to have a free to play game.
To those who say they would love to have a subscription game ($15.00 per month or more) how many games are you actually subscribed to? Oh, no games are worth it you, say, well....
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Yes. Because Free 2 Play (F2P) is not a contractual obligation, it’s a marketing ploy. No group has been able to sue a company for not being “Free Enough to Play.” Most countries do have laws that criminalize interference with business, and that is what claims of P2W are. Most companies hit by claims of P2W don’t have the money to fight it, but eventually they will. Free speech ends when it tresspasses anothers rights, and that is what claims of P2W does. P2W is done right, it’s Play4Free (P4F) that is done wrong and can’t be fixed. The P4F gamers’ days are coming to an end, and so is their freedom.
I agree with this. I am sure people spending the money and enjoying the game aren't the ones bitching about it. they aren't saying p2w. Too many people feel entitled to have a free to play game.
To those who say they would love to have a subscription game ($15.00 per month or more) how many games are you actually subscribed to? Oh, no games are worth it you, say, well....
At my highest eleven (11), today one (1).
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
The only way to really do it is to have money also flowing out of the game. as long as the house is getting a cut its ok to incentify your free base. its just a very slipperly sloop and a lean towards gambling.
I think MTGO did it the right way collecting sets and trading for real life cards as well as the self-regulated underground player economy but also having limited modes such as draft and the planeswalker sets which were regulated free play are you bought the sets
People say P2W games inflates the economy but other then L2 which P2W games have an inflated economy? Inflation is based on supply and demand. Prices go up due to scarcity. P2W actually puts more items into the economy driving prices down. Devs control the economy when they want to.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It seems that whenever a game is labelled P2W it is basically the death sentence for that game for the majority of players. I think it's because the games profits come from the <5% of "whales" who spend thousands on the game, while the other 95% who don't will end up being completely underpowered.
Do you think there's any plan that could allow P2W to be successful? Perhaps it somehow caters to both average payers and whales? Or is P2W destined to always screw the majority over?
Maybe it's the way you put it but P2W is successful which is why it continues to be used. Where did you get those stats from?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Still playing FFXI for 15 years now as a sub no cash shop at all only server transfer and name change you have to pay for. Free to play or pay to win games are to shallow for my taste and won’t keep me interested for more than few hours.
No you will hear about the success stories but all the failures are kept quiet,except a few from big name devs.Like NOBODY would care or even hear about Devilian closing down if not that Trion has been a paying supporter of this site.
For fun i did a "mmo Devilian closes"google search and only one noting a shutdown,most are threads/websites talking about the ULTIMATE action game,so you can see how advertising pushes a lot of crap games in the market.
As noted by Spock,my favorite "gaming experience"was within FFXI as well.For my first 8 or so years i did not see the same nonsense i saw in a few days in other games,like the Chuck Norris and mama jokes in chat.Players in FFXI were busy having too much fun and working hard in game to worry about chat nonsense.
What other nonsense was common in all those other games "shirts off"for some reason a bunch of kids thought it cool if running around game with no gear on,very immature you ask me.
Besides anything i said,he most important factor is to at least make it tougher for outside RMT to take over your game.Make it free and they walk all over it,bots everywhere,Silkroad online ring any bells?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yes. Because Free 2 Play (F2P) is not a contractual obligation, it’s a marketing ploy. No group has been able to sue a company for not being “Free Enough to Play.” Most countries do have laws that criminalize interference with business, and that is what claims of P2W are. Most companies hit by claims of P2W don’t have the money to fight it, but eventually they will. Free speech ends when it tresspasses anothers rights, and that is what claims of P2W does. P2W is done right, it’s Play4Free (P4F) that is done wrong and can’t be fixed. The P4F gamers’ days are coming to an end, and so is their freedom.
You seriously equated consumer opinion with criminal acts...
Yes. Because Free 2 Play (F2P) is not a contractual obligation, it’s a marketing ploy. No group has been able to sue a company for not being “Free Enough to Play.” Most countries do have laws that criminalize interference with business, and that is what claims of P2W are. Most companies hit by claims of P2W don’t have the money to fight it, but eventually they will. Free speech ends when it tresspasses anothers rights, and that is what claims of P2W does. P2W is done right, it’s Play4Free (P4F) that is done wrong and can’t be fixed. The P4F gamers’ days are coming to an end, and so is their freedom.
You seriously equated consumer opinion with criminal acts...
You make it so the free players want to have more Paid players paying more money into the game because it gives them an advantage. The whales are there spending money to help other players, which the majority of them statistically do already.
Let there be "Land Rights" in the MMO. There are Kings, Prince Duke, Earl, Baron, Knight going down a few levels of hierarchy and they all control the "land" the MMO is played on. There probably a dozen "King" titles that control the entire land mass and below that it is subdivided to Princes, then Dukesm ect. Knights control like a city block.
You can pay, increased monthly, to have a title and be in control of a section of land. This is done by Auction, every month, for every piece of land. The kings probably pay hundreds of dollars a month to keep control of a Kingdom.
Players who DONT pay, but play WITHIN those land masses get a big benefit from those "whales". How exactly you do that is up in the air but it can be as simple as, the more money they pay for the land , the BETTER the land is that month when it comes to loot/XP or whatever. Or the land owners have ways of helping non paying players within their land holdings. Protection, leniency on laws, or private quests or whatever.
In the end you make the mechanics be that the nonpaying want to play or reside in the kingdoms with big paying players because they get a trickle down effect of some kind. The entire game income can run off the land owners monthly. The game can be Free to Play. The more Whales are playing the better it is for everyone, and yet, the game still runs if there arent any land owners. But there WILL BE because land ownership is set as an auction so it could be $1 a month to own a kingdom is that what it takes.
If I log in, and I can enjoy the game, then whatever P2W that exists is not stopping me from enjoying the game, then that is good design, if I log in and need o worry about other players ganking me, killing me or ruining my fun, then no matter how "pure" the game might be, it is bad design.
Hey you are entitled to your opinions. One point though, your statement about players ganking you has absolutely zero to do with P2W. That can happen in any pay model.
Exactly.
See there is nothing special or fair about games without P2W.
P2W adds another tier of ganking. You caught up with the guy who had played longer than you and then he out spends you. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I would not want to play the game if someone who was playing longer then me could gank me to start with, a shitty game is a shitty game, with or without P2W.
As game that has an item shop, but keeps things balanced to the game, is a better game, even with it's vaunted P2W item Mall.
Case in point,if someone could buy a level 100, boost, but then could only fight someone within 10% of their level, while the game may have P2W, with the level boost, but the game is still far more balanced then a game that does not have P2w, but lets a level 100 attack a level 1 player.
Is this sinking in or am I talking to a brick wall?
I don't think Scot is the brick wall.
Use your case in point. You again toss in ganking as some balance to P2W. It's a totally separate discussion.
You can have the exact same rule "no ganking over 10% level difference" without allowing real money to buy the level 100 character. If you want to discuss concepts to limit ganking I think that would make a great (but separate) thread.
You could have the same rule without the P2W.. but then the P2W becomes insignificant to the enjoyment of the game, because its a balanced game.. the money is not the problem, never was, and never will be.
Sinking in yet?
Wow... could not disagree more.
Well., I'll gladly leave you to your unbalanced games then, if that is what makes you happy.
For me, as long as the game is balanced, then it doesn't matter what is for sale in the Item mall. I have no care if someone played the game for their 100 levels or bought the 100 levels. if it bothers you, oh well, no loss on my part.
I plan to play CoE was well, and I am more then happy to enjoy the benefits of those willing to spend money. I heard that someone bought 2 Kingdoms, I might make an effort to be on their lands, as that would make me a citizen of a double sized kingdom, a benefit I plan to enjoy that someone else bought for me. I wager they will invest in good defenses, another benefit I get for free. I love people who are willing to invest into games, they give me a game to play. I love the fact that others can make a better game for me, pity you don't.
Ahh, so you enjoy being a freeloader, living off of the efforts of others, yes?
I don't, I prefer to earn everything I get in game and normally eschew assistance from others and rarely ask for help.
Just how I am wired, in the past I've avoided joining guilds with a significant number of whales either, I find my values don't mesh well with theirs.
In COE I'm more likely to join a group that plans to start the game at launch with the goal of taking as much as they can from everyone who had a headstart, just to see if it is possible.
Heck, if they decide to play I might even become a a Goon.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
It creates unlimited in game currency, which creates inflation. If the game doesn’t easily allow you to farm currency in large quantities, this leaves you disadvantaged when you do not buy currency, because it takes you significantly longer to farm currency that can be bought instantly by others.
I’m not sure how these problems aren’t obvious. Lineage II is a great example of this.
It seems the economy is often used to shield P2W elements of games. If you need a ton of gold to buy top gear or upgrade it and there are cash shop methods for obtaining gold, such as selling on cosmetics that's what's going to happen.
The fact that they sell cosmetics on the store isn't an issue. The fact that store-exclusive cosmetics are used as a way to "legally break the rules" and turn RL$ into in-game currency IS a problem. This is easily fixable by simply binding the cosmetics to the account, but the companies in charge are so desperate for revenue that they allow this to continue because it fuels store sales.
Meanwhile, the in-game economy suffers because as more people on a server get gold (easily spread around by simply buying cosmetics and selling them to richer players), the average wealth across the player base rises and therefore prices are jacked up to take advantage of this. This is all well and good, until a new players starts playing and realizes that the only way to get anything is by reselling cosmetics (bought with RL$ from the shop) or straight up eBaying gold from farmers.
Of course there is some variance depending on if there is a desire to recover more up front vs perhaps a more stable long term stream.
But I think the best way to pay is with other people's money.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I agree with this. I am sure people spending the money and enjoying the game aren't the ones bitching about it. they aren't saying p2w. Too many people feel entitled to have a free to play game.
To those who say they would love to have a subscription game ($15.00 per month or more) how many games are you actually subscribed to? Oh, no games are worth it you, say, well....
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I think MTGO did it the right way
collecting sets and trading for real life cards as well as the self-regulated underground player economy
but also having limited modes such as draft
and the planeswalker sets which were regulated free play are you bought the sets
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
For fun i did a "mmo Devilian closes"google search and only one noting a shutdown,most are threads/websites talking about the ULTIMATE action game,so you can see how advertising pushes a lot of crap games in the market.
As noted by Spock,my favorite "gaming experience"was within FFXI as well.For my first 8 or so years i did not see the same nonsense i saw in a few days in other games,like the Chuck Norris and mama jokes in chat.Players in FFXI were busy having too much fun and working hard in game to worry about chat nonsense.
What other nonsense was common in all those other games "shirts off"for some reason a bunch of kids thought it cool if running around game with no gear on,very immature you ask me.
Besides anything i said,he most important factor is to at least make it tougher for outside RMT to take over your game.Make it free and they walk all over it,bots everywhere,Silkroad online ring any bells?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"Slander! Prepare to be sued!"
Let there be "Land Rights" in the MMO. There are Kings, Prince Duke, Earl, Baron, Knight going down a few levels of hierarchy and they all control the "land" the MMO is played on. There probably a dozen "King" titles that control the entire land mass and below that it is subdivided to Princes, then Dukesm ect. Knights control like a city block.
You can pay, increased monthly, to have a title and be in control of a section of land. This is done by Auction, every month, for every piece of land. The kings probably pay hundreds of dollars a month to keep control of a Kingdom.
Players who DONT pay, but play WITHIN those land masses get a big benefit from those "whales". How exactly you do that is up in the air but it can be as simple as, the more money they pay for the land , the BETTER the land is that month when it comes to loot/XP or whatever. Or the land owners have ways of helping non paying players within their land holdings. Protection, leniency on laws, or private quests or whatever.
In the end you make the mechanics be that the nonpaying want to play or reside in the kingdoms with big paying players because they get a trickle down effect of some kind. The entire game income can run off the land owners monthly. The game can be Free to Play. The more Whales are playing the better it is for everyone, and yet, the game still runs if there arent any land owners. But there WILL BE because land ownership is set as an auction so it could be $1 a month to own a kingdom is that what it takes.
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
I don't, I prefer to earn everything I get in game and normally eschew assistance from others and rarely ask for help.
Just how I am wired, in the past I've avoided joining guilds with a significant number of whales either, I find my values don't mesh well with theirs.
In COE I'm more likely to join a group that plans to start the game at launch with the goal of taking as much as they can from everyone who had a headstart, just to see if it is possible.
Heck, if they decide to play I might even become a a Goon.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"