The game is built for a specific target audience in mind. The graphics are good, the feel of the dungeon is great. The combat is tab target based, not action combat so its not going to have a great twitch appeal. Some games are better played than watched. If you go back 2 or more streams you can see a vast improvement to pretend that the game wont change as it develops is insane. Your right the core wont but the polish will, things like animation, bugs, random glitches.
This stream actually gave me a lot more hope in the project and although I'm not a backer yet it has given me a little more confidence to possibly reconsider holding back on that front.
To be honest, that combat gameplay looks terrible to me. Animations are awful and feel completely disconnected, there's no feeling of impact of your hits. I mean, compared to existing games, both older and newer.
well it is Alpha .. need to consider that .. i think at its stage , its fine
Hmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah!
"Its Closed Beta, they still have a lot of time. Its fine" "Its Open Beta, more people testing will help them fix it. Its fine" "It just released, they have a lot going on right now. Its fine" "Its been a year since release, they ....I dont know anymore. Its ....fine"
Whats funny is that I remember this exact same song and dance for Vanguard.
I think the real issue is that people just don't know what they are looking at.
This will be, to use a term, a "retro game". It just is.
For some, that's fine or preferred or at least can be overlooked.
for others, they won't be able to understand why it doesn't have cutting edge combat and animations and "whatever".
Tempering expectations is very important. Sadly, some gamers have no idea how to do this or have no idea what they are looking at.
I know exactly what Im looking at. Even by "retro" standards the combat doesnt look good.
Perhaps people like you dont know what you're looking at. People so desperate for a "retro" game you will dismiss any and all flaws and criticisms.
To be honest, that combat gameplay looks terrible to me. Animations are awful and feel completely disconnected, there's no feeling of impact of your hits. I mean, compared to existing games, both older and newer.
well it is Alpha .. need to consider that .. i think at its stage , its fine
Hmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah!
"Its Closed Beta, they still have a lot of time. Its fine" "Its Open Beta, more people testing will help them fix it. Its fine" "It just released, they have a lot going on right now. Its fine" "Its been a year since release, they ....I dont know anymore. Its ....fine"
Whats funny is that I remember this exact same song and dance for Vanguard.
I think the real issue is that people just don't know what they are looking at.
This will be, to use a term, a "retro game". It just is.
For some, that's fine or preferred or at least can be overlooked.
for others, they won't be able to understand why it doesn't have cutting edge combat and animations and "whatever".
Tempering expectations is very important. Sadly, some gamers have no idea how to do this or have no idea what they are looking at.
I know exactly what Im looking at. Even by "retro" standards the combat doesnt look good.
Perhaps people like you dont know what you're looking at. People so desperate for a "retro" game you will dismiss any and all flaws and criticisms.
Actually my preference is always action combat.
but I'm also a big believer in knowing what you are getting into and either coming to terms with it or moving on.
Watching the entire stream now and came to the point where they flat out state "this combat is meant to be slower".
Watching it it still seems in the family of everquest or even Vanguard in speed and type of combat.
So it seems you are just complaining for "reasons" unless you want to go into detail.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
To be honest, that combat gameplay looks terrible to me. Animations are awful and feel completely disconnected, there's no feeling of impact of your hits. I mean, compared to existing games, both older and newer.
well it is Alpha .. need to consider that .. i think at its stage , its fine
Hmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, yeah!
"Its Closed Beta, they still have a lot of time. Its fine" "Its Open Beta, more people testing will help them fix it. Its fine" "It just released, they have a lot going on right now. Its fine" "Its been a year since release, they ....I dont know anymore. Its ....fine"
Whats funny is that I remember this exact same song and dance for Vanguard.
I think the real issue is that people just don't know what they are looking at.
This will be, to use a term, a "retro game". It just is.
For some, that's fine or preferred or at least can be overlooked.
for others, they won't be able to understand why it doesn't have cutting edge combat and animations and "whatever".
Tempering expectations is very important. Sadly, some gamers have no idea how to do this or have no idea what they are looking at.
I know exactly what Im looking at. Even by "retro" standards the combat doesnt look good.
Perhaps people like you dont know what you're looking at. People so desperate for a "retro" game you will dismiss any and all flaws and criticisms.
So again, what is so bad about the way it looks? Ive seen a few posts saying the graphics are bad and combat looks terrible but I watch the same thing and think it looks great, yes it has some refining and polishing but it looks better than a lot of games that are way way further in development.
I totally would pay a subscription even if they released Pantheon in its current state. I totally miss those memorable events that can only happen when the environment really fights back. Watch the video and look at the chat when they caused a zonewide train by accident! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240239594##
I can see a situation like with the damage shield being bad for melee classes. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing. In a situation like that I could see a caster or archery type class being wanted exclusively over a rogue, monk, etc.
In EQ there were situations where a caster was almost worthless due to level range resistance of mob or if you were using one handed weapons they did far less damage to certain mobs than two handers due to the mobs damage reduction amount.
Which is terrible. Bringing back something almost 20 years old can't end well.
There are games which have set the milestones for modern MMO combat. That doesn't mean simplification, that can involve the complexity of "old school" (disputable...), but that means top notch hand/eye synchronization and the feeling that your actions have a tangible repercussion on screen immediately.
I want that dagger or sword to actually feel like it hits the enemy. Not like I'm just swinging a stick in the air.
That is a big part of why that live stream is so boring.
And that's a huge reason I hate modern MMOs. For me, my twitch skill takes away every last bit of RPG. I'm not even a backer of Pantheon, but from what I've seen it has me at the very least interested in MMORPGs again. The lack of summer-salting, plate wearing melee fighters is a humongous plus, in my book.
So don't play it. It's clearly not for you. Lots and lots of other MMOs already released that fit your preference better.
The best about that combat? The players actually chatted with each other!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I can see a situation like with the damage shield being bad for melee classes. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing. In a situation like that I could see a caster or archery type class being wanted exclusively over a rogue, monk, etc.
In EQ there were situations where a caster was almost worthless due to level range resistance of mob or if you were using one handed weapons they did far less damage to certain mobs than two handers due to the mobs damage reduction amount.
My favorite couple things about EQ was the solo challenge and the tactics required in combat. It looked slow but you had to know many things before engaging and use tactics to defeat a single enemy. The many farming areas with differing loot and experience. Hopefully those thorns don't make the solo or duo impossible. I'm sure they will work out small things like this. Overall, I was happy to see the amount of progress they have made. It actually looks like it will be released some day, w00t!
I can see a situation like with the damage shield being bad for melee classes. I'm not sure if it's a good or bad thing. In a situation like that I could see a caster or archery type class being wanted exclusively over a rogue, monk, etc.
In EQ there were situations where a caster was almost worthless due to level range resistance of mob or if you were using one handed weapons they did far less damage to certain mobs than two handers due to the mobs damage reduction amount.
My favorite couple things about EQ was the solo challenge and the tactics required in combat. It looked slow but you had to know many things before engaging and use tactics to defeat a single enemy. The many farming areas with differing loot and experience. Hopefully those thorns don't make the solo or duo impossible. I'm sure they will work out small things like this. Overall, I was happy to see the amount of progress they have made. It actually looks like it will be released some day, w00t!
I enjoyed the same. This style of combat isn't really interesting to watch, but it can be a lot of fun to play. I'm sure many people don't enjoy watching chess, but some find it enjoyable to play.
Which is terrible. Bringing back something almost 20 years old can't end well.
There are games which have set the milestones for modern MMO combat. That doesn't mean simplification, that can involve the complexity of "old school" (disputable...), but that means top notch hand/eye synchronization and the feeling that your actions have a tangible repercussion on screen immediately.
I want that dagger or sword to actually feel like it hits the enemy. Not like I'm just swinging a stick in the air.
That is a big part of why that live stream is so boring.
And that's a huge reason I hate modern MMOs. For me, my twitch skill takes away every last bit of RPG. I'm not even a backer of Pantheon, but from what I've seen it has me at the very least interested in MMORPGs again. The lack of summer-salting, plate wearing melee fighters is a humongous plus, in my book.
So don't play it. It's clearly not for you. Lots and lots of other MMOs already released that fit your preference better.
The best about that combat? The players actually chatted with each other!
Except that I'm NOT talking about twitch combat.
Who cares what you are talking about, don't like the way the game plays then got find a game that suits your play style.
This game will be niche and those people have no problem with how the combat plays or the game looks.
It will be polished but it will not be action for combat but resemble the likes of EQ and Vanguard.
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
That was my fist reaction to. Then I remembered lord of the rings online where you can see a wolf in the starter area and then later, when you are a bad ass, you can have the same fight with another wolf.
I suppose this is the "game" aspect over the "realistic" aspect.
You are not fighting a shirtless lackey but a level 16 mob when you are level 14.
Again, is what it is.
Still, that was my first reaction as well.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
Maybe because the heroes have chosen to rather fight a challenging foe than stomping over masses of innocent victims? You can see the difficulty of this game at the end, when they switched classes around. All of a sudden, without the perfect setup, this group of devs was unable to kill a single enemy...
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
The half naked guys wielding a mining pick are probably not humans. They can be some kind of spectres or other ghosts of ancient miners.
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
Because that's how EQ1 was - Pantheon is heavily based on EQ1 model.
If you just go back in time to 1999-2002 - EQ1 vanilla, Kunark, Velious era - look at the combat videos from that time period - you will understand why Pantheon is like this.
Here's footage from P99 -
It is because mobs aren't designed to be beaten easily. Taking down a mob solo usually requires a class that can kite and be very efficient with their resources or has a pet. I don't think people will quite so decked out in the real game or at least I hope so. Most people in EQ started with nothing and ended up using standard cloth/leather armor for half the game. They also used rusty/platinum non-magic weapons they found on mobs.
I'm sure it won't be quite that bad. Items of higher quality will probably drop more often and have attribute bonuses. The equipment seen there wouldn't have been gotten until max level when people got their epic sets (which weren't in the original game).
Most of the screenshots Ive seen of this game just scream EQ1 all over again.....It was great in its day, but that was 19 years ago.....I really dont want to go through it again.
Most of the screenshots Ive seen of this game just scream EQ1 all over again.....It was great in its day, but that was 19 years ago.....I really dont want to go through it again.
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
Because that's how EQ1 was - Pantheon is heavily based on EQ1 model.
If you just go back in time to 1999-2002 - EQ1 vanilla, Kunark, Velious era - look at the combat videos from that time period - you will understand why Pantheon is like this.
Here's footage from P99 -
??? I didn't watch it all, but the bit I saw had giants so tall that you couldn't see past their knees rap dancing on the heads of the heroes - that actually makes a lot more sense than what I saw in the Pantheon video.
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
This isn't WoW, where one guy wades into 8-10 foes at a time and kills them all. No one here wants that. They want challenging encounters (where it takes 6 guys playing well to kill 1 guy).
It doesn't matter the artwork on the mob you reference because they are magical beings. They don't have to wear armor to be tough.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Why are the heroes so weak? They are decked out in the coolest gear, flaming swords fancy armor, and shooting fireballs, but can barely beat one half naked guy wielding a mining pick
Because that's how EQ1 was - Pantheon is heavily based on EQ1 model.
If you just go back in time to 1999-2002 - EQ1 vanilla, Kunark, Velious era - look at the combat videos from that time period - you will understand why Pantheon is like this.
Here's footage from P99 -
??? I didn't watch it all, but the bit I saw had giants so tall that you couldn't see past their knees rap dancing on the heads of the heroes - that actually makes a lot more sense than what I saw in the Pantheon video.
You should watch videos of rats, bats, skeletons, orc pawns, gnolls, etc. in EQ.
Comments
This stream actually gave me a lot more hope in the project and although I'm not a backer yet it has given me a little more confidence to possibly reconsider holding back on that front.
Perhaps people like you dont know what you're looking at. People so desperate for a "retro" game you will dismiss any and all flaws and criticisms.
but I'm also a big believer in knowing what you are getting into and either coming to terms with it or moving on.
Watching the entire stream now and came to the point where they flat out state "this combat is meant to be slower".
Watching it it still seems in the family of everquest or even Vanguard in speed and type of combat.
So it seems you are just complaining for "reasons" unless you want to go into detail.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
So again, what is so bad about the way it looks? Ive seen a few posts saying the graphics are bad and combat looks terrible but I watch the same thing and think it looks great, yes it has some refining and polishing but it looks better than a lot of games that are way way further in development.
Show some venders and something lively !
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/240239594##
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
In EQ there were situations where a caster was almost worthless due to level range resistance of mob or if you were using one handed weapons they did far less damage to certain mobs than two handers due to the mobs damage reduction amount.
So don't play it. It's clearly not for you. Lots and lots of other MMOs already released that fit your preference better.
The best about that combat? The players actually chatted with each other!
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Who cares what you are talking about, don't like the way the game plays then got find a game that suits your play style.
This game will be niche and those people have no problem with how the combat plays or the game looks.
It will be polished but it will not be action for combat but resemble the likes of EQ and Vanguard.
I suppose this is the "game" aspect over the "realistic" aspect.
You are not fighting a shirtless lackey but a level 16 mob when you are level 14.
Again, is what it is.
Still, that was my first reaction as well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You can see the difficulty of this game at the end, when they switched classes around. All of a sudden, without the perfect setup, this group of devs was unable to kill a single enemy...
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
It's not ideal but as I mentioned elsewhere, that's sort of the game.
Also, they didn't' really seem challenging just something that could cause a nuisance if one too many adds joined.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm sure it won't be quite that bad. Items of higher quality will probably drop more often and have attribute bonuses. The equipment seen there wouldn't have been gotten until max level when people got their epic sets (which weren't in the original game).
It doesn't matter the artwork on the mob you reference because they are magical beings. They don't have to wear armor to be tough.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests