need some help for an upgrade

treyu86 · May 2018

hey!

this is my actual pc:

i5 4690k 4.2ghz (oc cooled with hyper 212 evo)
Mobo Gigabyte z97x Gaming 3
Ram: 2x4gb DDR3
gpu: Gtx 1080ti 11gb
SSD: Crucial mx300

I have been with that cpu for like 3 years, and as I changed my gpu this year, do you think it would make any performance difference to get a newer i5 cpu? Or getting 2x8 gb ram would be better for the money? If that is the case which ram should I get? I donˋt know if ddr4 can be run by my motherboard and I see lot of different rams and prices so I am a bit lot (donˋt want to buy the more expensive one just one that improves my rig)

thanks in advance

Vrika · May 2018

If you get a new CPU you need to get new RAM too, because your RAM is DDR3 and new processors needs DDR4.

You could get a new RAM without upgrading anything else, but then you'd end up buying DDR3 RAM that won't be supported by any new processors once you decide it's time to upgrade your processor.

Therefore I'd recommend upgrading both processor and RAM at the same time, provided that you need upgrade. Your CPU and RAM should still be good for most of the games, so I don't think there's any hurry to upgrade, unless you play some strategy games that use a tons of RAM. But judging by your new GPU you aren't hurting for money either, so there's no reason why you can't upgrade if you want.

treyu86 · May 2018

Vrika said:

If you get a new CPU you need to get new RAM too, because your RAM is DDR3 and new processors needs DDR4.

You could get a new RAM without upgrading anything else, but then you'd end up buying DDR3 RAM that won't be supported by any new processors once you decide it's time to upgrade your processor.

Therefore I'd recommend upgrading both processor and RAM at the same time, provided that you need upgrade. Your CPU and RAM should still be good for most of the games, so I don't think there's any hurry to upgrade, unless you play some strategy games that use a tons of RAM. But judging by your new GPU you aren't hurting for money either, so there's no reason why you can't upgrade if you want.

And if I get 16gb ram ddr4 without updating my cpu, would that work or make any change? Which "cheap but good" ram could I get? And cpu?

Vrika · May 2018

treyu86 said:

Vrika said:

If you get a new CPU you need to get new RAM too, because your RAM is DDR3 and new processors needs DDR4.

You could get a new RAM without upgrading anything else, but then you'd end up buying DDR3 RAM that won't be supported by any new processors once you decide it's time to upgrade your processor.

Therefore I'd recommend upgrading both processor and RAM at the same time, provided that you need upgrade. Your CPU and RAM should still be good for most of the games, so I don't think there's any hurry to upgrade, unless you play some strategy games that use a tons of RAM. But judging by your new GPU you aren't hurting for money either, so there's no reason why you can't upgrade if you want.

And if I get 16gb ram ddr4 without updating my cpu, would that work or make any change? Which "cheap but good" ram could I get? And cpu?

Getting 16GB of DDR4 RAM would not help anything because it would not work with your CPU.

The only way you can get DDR4 RAM is buying a new motherboard, and that means also buying a new CPU.

Sorry I don't have time to think about "cheap but good" ram recommendations now. As for CPU, I'd say get at least I5-8600K because if you replace your current CPU it should be with something significantly faster. Anything below I5-8600K isn't going to offer that much speed increase.

treyu86 · May 2018

Vrika said:

treyu86 said:

Vrika said:

If you get a new CPU you need to get new RAM too, because your RAM is DDR3 and new processors needs DDR4.

You could get a new RAM without upgrading anything else, but then you'd end up buying DDR3 RAM that won't be supported by any new processors once you decide it's time to upgrade your processor.

Therefore I'd recommend upgrading both processor and RAM at the same time, provided that you need upgrade. Your CPU and RAM should still be good for most of the games, so I don't think there's any hurry to upgrade, unless you play some strategy games that use a tons of RAM. But judging by your new GPU you aren't hurting for money either, so there's no reason why you can't upgrade if you want.

And if I get 16gb ram ddr4 without updating my cpu, would that work or make any change? Which "cheap but good" ram could I get? And cpu?

Getting 16GB of DDR4 RAM would not help anything because it would not work with your CPU.

The only way you can get DDR4 RAM is buying a new motherboard, and that means also buying a new CPU.

Sorry I don't have time to think about "cheap but good" ram recommendations now. As for CPU, I'd say get at least I5-8600K because if you replace your current CPU it should be with something significantly faster. Anything below I5-8600K isn't going to offer that much speed increase.

Oh so my motherboard does not accept the new cpus

this upgrade idea is getting worse haha

jonp200 · May 2018

You'll need a new mobo, ram and cpu together.

treyu86 · May 2018

Torval said:

Are you seeing performance problems? The only upgrade I would recommend right now is adding RAM.

But adding now ddr3 ram if later on (a year maybe?) I am going to need to change motherboard cpu and add ram again but ddr4... better do the mb and cpu change before spending on ddr3?

Ozmodan · May 2018

treyu86 said:

Torval said:

Are you seeing performance problems? The only upgrade I would recommend right now is adding RAM.

But adding now ddr3 ram if later on (a year maybe?) I am going to need to change motherboard cpu and add ram again but ddr4... better do the mb and cpu change before spending on ddr3?

Upgrading the ram to 16gb will cost about $75 and it is plug and play, while buying a new CPU, motherboard and DDR4 ram will cost you about $700 minimum and you have to do the OS license transfer hassle. The performance boost for most games will be minimal. It all depends on how much you want to spend and how much time to want to devote to your build time.

gervaise1 · May 2018

Three points:

1. You should be able to upgrade your cpu to a Haswell i7-xxxx. There are still some for sale and not that expensive.

2. Upgrading to a current gen cpu will - as others have said - require other stuff to be changed. That may also include your Windows software if - if - it came pre-installed as part of a package. (If you bought Windows not the case.)

3. Is a cpu upgrade worthwhile? Well on https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html which groups cpus together so they can be broadly compared ..... your current cpu is still in the first tier! In other words its still perfectly capable.

P.S. Agree about the RAM. Again its an old RAM new RAM conundrum.

Gazimoff · May 2018

As others have said, I think that a RAM upgrade is going to be the only real benefit for you.

You could try tracking down an i7 Haswell CPU (and it should be fairly cheap), but the performance difference is going to be minimal, especially considering that you're overclocking on air. One possible option is to swap out the 212 for a CLC like the Corsair H100i, as it'll let you push to a higher OC or improve stability, but this is all in the margins.

You're already rocking a top-tier GPU, and that's going to be the main differentiator in gaming.

Personally, I'd bank the money for now and save up for a CPU+Mobo+DDR4 bundle. I'd also be sorely tempted to go AMD Ryzen this time around, mainly because it's approx $200 cheaper than the equivalent Intel at the mo, but it's up to your own preference.

Vrika · May 2018

Gazimoff said:

Personally, I'd bank the money for now and save up for a CPU+Mobo+DDR4 bundle. I'd also be sorely tempted to go AMD Ryzen this time around, mainly because it's approx $200 cheaper than the equivalent Intel at the mo, but it's up to your own preference.

What kind of parts are you buying to get to the result that Ryzen is $200 cheaper?

Assuming that he'd buy Intel 8700K + mobo:
  https://pcpartpicker.com/list/K4fHPs
AMD package that costs $200 less would be Ryzen 5 1600:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/

Intel's package would be maybe 30% faster, which in itself is not bad considering the price difference
  http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-8700K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600/3937vs3919

But the problem is that AMD's package would be slower than OP's current CPU in situations that don's scale well to multiple multiple threads, which often includes gaming
  http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-4690K-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-1600/2432vs3919

Overall the AMD might be a bit faster than OP's current processor, but I can't see how AMD package costing $200 less than Intel would be equivalent to Intel, nor how it would be good upgrade for OP. OP already has a decent processor and if he wants an upgrade it needs to be something fairly expensive to give a decent speed increase.

And this is done using Intel's most expensive mainstream processor in comparison. If you were to use anything cheaper than that like I5-8600K I'm not sure whether $200 less would give you any CPU + mobo combo.

Gazimoff · May 2018

Vrika said:

Gazimoff said:

Personally, I'd bank the money for now and save up for a CPU+Mobo+DDR4 bundle. I'd also be sorely tempted to go AMD Ryzen this time around, mainly because it's approx $200 cheaper than the equivalent Intel at the mo, but it's up to your own preference.

What kind of parts are you buying to get to the result that Ryzen is $200 cheaper?

It's a rough ballpark, based on the bundle of parts (not just CPU). Also, I'd be less inclined to agree with those benchmarks following the various issues with spectre etc hurting Intel performance. Have a peek at this - it seems that significant chunks of buyers are now shifting to AMD, and that trend is also seen on Amazon's bestseller lists.

Either way, it's a moot point for me personally - I already have an 8700k with 32GB RAM and a 1080Ti. I'm just putting the option of AMD out there as it;s a viable choice these days.

In any case, I didn't come here to debate benchmarks. The point still stands: OP is probably better off saving his cash for a new build at the mo.

GameolioDan · May 2018

More out of interest, I'm kinda curious as to the performance you're already getting with that current setup.

I had an aging PC too (prior to the start of the year) with specs lower than yours (AMD 7870 graphics card for example). But it was quite solid. I played mostly MMOs and most settings were on medium to high. Struggled a little on PUBG, but just had to change a few settings (notably shadows).

Do you run your games from the SSD?

Vrika · May 2018

Gazimoff said:

Vrika said:

Gazimoff said:

Personally, I'd bank the money for now and save up for a CPU+Mobo+DDR4 bundle. I'd also be sorely tempted to go AMD Ryzen this time around, mainly because it's approx $200 cheaper than the equivalent Intel at the mo, but it's up to your own preference.

What kind of parts are you buying to get to the result that Ryzen is $200 cheaper?

It's a rough ballpark, based on the bundle of parts (not just CPU). Also, I'd be less inclined to agree with those benchmarks following the various issues with spectre etc hurting Intel performance. Have a peek at this - it seems that significant chunks of buyers are now shifting to AMD, and that trend is also seen on Amazon's bestseller lists.

Either way, it's a moot point for me personally - I already have an 8700k with 32GB RAM and a 1080Ti. I'm just putting the option of AMD out there as it;s a viable choice these days.

In any case, I didn't come here to debate benchmarks. The point still stands: OP is probably better off saving his cash for a new build at the mo.

AMD is definitely a viable choice for many situations, I'm not arguing against that.

I was arguing against your claim that AMD would be equivalent to an Intel that's $200 more expensive, because it's not. In normal computers they're about evenly matched and your choice depends on your needs.

Quizzical · May 2018

In order to come away saying AMD is $200 cheaper than Intel for something comparable, you'd probably have to be looking at either some tier of Ryzen Threadripper versus Sky Lake-X or some tier of EPYC versus Xeon.

Ozmodan · May 2018

Vrika said:

Gazimoff said:

Vrika said:

Gazimoff said:

Personally, I'd bank the money for now and save up for a CPU+Mobo+DDR4 bundle. I'd also be sorely tempted to go AMD Ryzen this time around, mainly because it's approx $200 cheaper than the equivalent Intel at the mo, but it's up to your own preference.

What kind of parts are you buying to get to the result that Ryzen is $200 cheaper?

It's a rough ballpark, based on the bundle of parts (not just CPU). Also, I'd be less inclined to agree with those benchmarks following the various issues with spectre etc hurting Intel performance. Have a peek at this - it seems that significant chunks of buyers are now shifting to AMD, and that trend is also seen on Amazon's bestseller lists.

Either way, it's a moot point for me personally - I already have an 8700k with 32GB RAM and a 1080Ti. I'm just putting the option of AMD out there as it;s a viable choice these days.

In any case, I didn't come here to debate benchmarks. The point still stands: OP is probably better off saving his cash for a new build at the mo.

AMD is definitely a viable choice for many situations, I'm not arguing against that.

I was arguing against your claim that AMD would be equivalent to an Intel that's $200 more expensive, because it's not. In normal computers they're about evenly matched and your choice depends on your needs.

Really silly to debate AMD vs Intel price points when he is not going to see much difference from his current set up.

I am always pricing parts as I build pcs and I can build a Ryzen top end cheaper than a similar intel ATM, but the pricing differences are not that much. From a gaming point of view there is virtually little difference, the GPU still is the main bottleneck in any system.

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