I go 3rd person all the time because it's not good to have the mode you play in regularly be different than the mode you play in for competitive play.
I don't dislike 3rd person because its "easy", I like first person because it personally feels more immersive to me and immersion is something I seek in gaming.
I go 3rd person all the time because it's not good to have the mode you play in regularly be different than the mode you play in for competitive play.
I don't dislike 3rd person because its "easy", I like first person because it personally feels more immersive to me and immersion is something I seek in gaming.
For MMORPG's I prefer third person, for FPS its in the name isn't it.
It is one of the reasons I think Fortnite is second rate, but I would put that on any TPS, and must admit it can be a woolly distinction. PS2 for example is third person, but it is a MMO in my eyes so that's fine.
The latest influence I have seen of infantilization is the introduction of a football game to Crossout. This is a grimy post-apocalypse world where you now play matches with a giant football. If it is the sort of thing pre-teens to mid twenties want, put it in regardless of the theme lore and look of the game.
I go 3rd person all the time because it's not good to have the mode you play in regularly be different than the mode you play in for competitive play.
I don't dislike 3rd person because its "easy", I like first person because it personally feels more immersive to me and immersion is something I seek in gaming.
For MMORPG's I prefer third person, for FPS its in the name isn't it.
It is one of the reasons I think Fortnite is second rate, but I would put that on any TPS, and must admit it can be a woolly distinction. PS2 for example is third person, but it is a MMO in my eyes so that's fine.
The latest influence I have seen of infantilization is the introduction of a football game to Crossout. This is a grimy post-apocalypse world where you now play matches with a giant football. If it is the sort of thing pre-teens to mid twenties want, put it in regardless of the theme lore and look of the game.
If I have to "aim", first person for me. Otherwise third person all the way. In Skyrim I flip between the two, 95% in third person and archery/magic in first person
I just can't get the hang of this "over-the-shoulder" view too many roleplaying games have adopted...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I just want to know if OP played any of the games they are mentioning or do they just get randomly triggered by baseball caps in games.
I don't know why certain people think their little personal bubble extends beyond themselves but PC gaming wasn't mainstream and it isn't now.
In the 90's while most of you advanced humanoids were having fun by not having fun apparently the majority of normal people were in Pizza Shops, Bowling Alleys, and Arcades doing this;
I mean if we're going to be honest, if you're that hardcore about your fun shouldn't you folks be shaking up multi-sided dice in a quiet room with a couple of socially inept friends? IJS.
Your idea of fun is right where you left it, on your old ass beige box.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
I just want to know if OP played any of the games they are mentioning or do they just get randomly triggered by baseball caps in games.
I don't know why certain people think their little personal bubble extends beyond themselves but PC gaming wasn't mainstream and it isn't now.
In the 90's while most of you advanced humanoids were having fun by not having fun apparently the majority of normal people were in Pizza Shops, Bowling Alleys, and Arcades doing this;
I mean if we're going to be honest, if you're that hardcore about your fun shouldn't you folks be shaking up multi-sided dice in a quiet room with a couple of socially inept friends? IJS.
Your idea of fun is right where you left it, on your old ass beige box.
Not played Crossout, played all the rest.
I am not sure you have got what I am going on about here, difficulty is just one element of it. The gist of this is pandering to the pre-teen to mid twenties age group above all else. One persons 'just right' as regards difficulty is another's too easy or too hard. I am not claiming to know what is the right difficulty for games, just pointing out it is getting ever easier and that can't be good for gaming. If it was getting ever harder and I would say the same thing.
Classic times from those arcade games, and they do illustrate another of the points I made here. You must remember when we were kids how we saw the whole evolution of games being about graphics getting more realistic? Look at the colours and quality of those games, Fornite to me is something that adheres to that colour scheme more than say BF.
Games are becoming more childish, that's the issue.
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
I admit that they certainly "looked beautiful" and sounded awesome, but remind myself, "It's a video game showcase. They show the best."
On Topic: World of Warcraft had many "real world" references which were many times presented in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I usually smiled or laughed. But that game presented itself as "not serious" with its choice of art style.
Sometimes, it's OK to devolve a little. It does seem to get more prominent as the industry keeps growing. All in moderation, as they say.
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
Is that his point or is his point that there are still games that are more serious and adult leaning?
I suspect it's the latter.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
How can you ask developers not to "pander" to the exact same demographic that video games were always geared towards?
Games aren't getting childish, you're just getting old and want games for old you. Blaming young people, and calling games "childish" is so hypocritical and not how the point needs to be made IMO.
Just say you want an adult themed MMORPG that doesn't break immersion. It's simple and doesn't contradict your entire existence as a gamer.
What type of childhood did you guys have? On my side we were playing Street Fighter, Ikari Warriors, R-Type, and Gauntlet + and other types of SHMUPS that required hand eye coordination. All those came out before Ultima Online, and Everquest. Lets be fair.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
Is that his point or is his point that there are still games that are more serious and adult leaning?
I suspect it's the latter.
It is possible. But none of the games have released, so we can only assume. Had they listed recently released games, I could see the point better. I've been surprised by game releases many times not to overlook a presentation without remembering.
From what I saw, I would agree with them. But that is an assumption on my part.
How can you ask developers not to "pander" to the exact same demographic that video games were always geared towards?
Games aren't getting childish, you're just getting old and want games for old you. Blaming young people, and calling games "childish" is so hypocritical and not how the point needs to be made IMO.
Just say you want an adult themed MMORPG that doesn't break immersion. It's simple and doesn't contradict your entire existence as a gamer.
What type of childhood did you guys have? On my side we were playing Street Fighter, Ikari Warriors, R-Type, and Gauntlet + and other types of SHMUPS that required hand eye coordination. All those came out before Ultima Online, and Everquest. Lets be fair.
When we were the age you refer to there were not many gamers over 25, now there are. So the demographic has shifted.
At that time we saw the graphics in games getting ever better and more realistic, now cute and colourful seem to be as important as hyper-realism.
Did I anywhere blame "young people"? This one is down to the gaming industry and pushing a certain sort of game and graphics. Players get used to whatever they are given, it is not the players fault they expect every Assassins Creed since AC3 to be incredibly dumbed down. Once the new level of simplicity was established that's what they expect.
Many of my examples are about gaming difficulty, but that's just because it is easier to track than the likes of changing graphics, adult themes and so on.
I wouldn't mind an adult themed MMORPG, but this is not just about MMOs, and you don't have to be adult themed to avoid garish colours, simplicity, no depth, same control systems, etc.
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
I admit that they certainly "looked beautiful" and sounded awesome, but remind myself, "It's a video game showcase. They show the best."
On Topic: World of Warcraft had many "real world" references which were many times presented in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I usually smiled or laughed. But that game presented itself as "not serious" with its choice of art style.
Sometimes, it's OK to devolve a little. It does seem to get more prominent as the industry keeps growing. All in moderation, as they say.
In moderation I would have no issue with real world references and "tongue-in-cheek". In certain games it fits better than others say Mad Max rather than Shadow of Mordor, or TERRA rather than LotR.
It is the baseball cap, one size fits all gaming approach that is a concern.
I agree with Tactical that we do have adult themed games, not sure they are all that difficult looking at his list? AC being one I pointed out in other posts. Too many games now seem like a walkthrough rather than a playthrough. But when it comes to graphics and so on, of the games I know on that list are fine.
Also this is about the money, as long as the money is with games that are more adult themed, then gaming won't shift too much. It was when I saw how much more money Fornite was making than CoD I saw a writing on the wall moment. Gaming follows the money, so why not make a new Fornite game rather than a new CoD?
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
Is that his point or is his point that there are still games that are more serious and adult leaning?
I suspect it's the latter.
It is. Because the topic was talking about whether or not the present is foreshadowing the future, I wanted to specifically call out the good but not exhaustive list of new games on the horizon that were very much adult in both appearance and theme.
I literally went through the whole of E3 and grabbed all the titles I could find. Even after posting this I discovered a few I missed, but being thorough wasn't the point of my post.
Some of them I won't even play. It's just a list to balance a perception. More games are coming out of a style you may not like, bringing your focus to them. I just think it's that there are more games overall, of all types.
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
Is that his point or is his point that there are still games that are more serious and adult leaning?
I suspect it's the latter.
It is possible. But none of the games have released, so we can only assume. Had they listed recently released games, I could see the point better. I've been surprised by game releases many times not to overlook a presentation without remembering.
From what I saw, I would agree with them. But that is an assumption on my part.
Well it was the future games I focused specifically on because the OP's topic leaned towards where games are going. I also focused on those because it was much easier to focus on high visibility new games than the overwhelming list of games already released.
Past games:
God of War
Detroit: Become Human
Battletech
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
Prey
Ruiner
Agony
Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
Life is Feudal
The Forest
Conan Exiles
Assassins Creed: Origins
Divinity: Original Sin 2
How far should I go back so that it still counts as recent? That's why my focus was where it was.
Edit: Just to add on after Scot's post. I was just going for overall theme, no tongue in cheek, no 'wink an a nod', no specific difficulty rating (which is very subjective anyways).
Are games becoming more childish? Or are there simply more 'childish' games?
Cyberpunk 2077
Ghost of Tsushima
Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice
Last of Us 2
Death Stranding
Days Gone
Dying Light 2
Assassins Creed Odyssey
Shadow of the Tomb Raider
The Division 2
Metro Exodus
Doom Eternal
Generation Zero
Gears of War 5
Rage 2
Wolfenstein Youngblood
Control
I think we'll be ok.
edit: Just to clarify my thinking: I could easily say something like "holy hell are all games becoming JRPGs/VNs?" because I'm not fond of them and I see way more of them nowadays.
Then I look up at the list I just made.
And I left off the whimsical appearing, but most certainly adult themed games, DLCs, remasters, already released games, etc.
You appear to have a lot faith in yet to be released games. These are from E3, yes? Did you get to actually play any of them?
Is that his point or is his point that there are still games that are more serious and adult leaning?
I suspect it's the latter.
It is possible. But none of the games have released, so we can only assume. Had they listed recently released games, I could see the point better. I've been surprised by game releases many times not to overlook a presentation without remembering.
From what I saw, I would agree with them. But that is an assumption on my part.
Well it was the future games I focused specifically on because the OP's topic leaned towards where games are going. I also focused on those because it was much easier to focus on high visibility new games than the overwhelming list of games already released.
Past games:
God of War
Detroit: Become Human
Battletech
Kingdom Come: Deliverance
Prey
Ruiner
Agony
Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
Life is Feudal
The Forest
Conan Exiles
Assassins Creed: Origins
Divinity: Original Sin 2
How far should I go back so that it still counts as recent? That's why my focus was where it was.
Edit: Just to add on after Scot's post. I was just going for overall theme, no tongue in cheek, no 'wink an a nod'.
I choose to ignore the unicorn mount in AC.....
You have a point, but I don't think that anything not strictly in the pre-teen to mid twenties market will never get made. This is more about the influence of that market and what developers think it needs and wants. Which is actually selling youngsters down in terms of what they are capable of playing and enjoying.
I do think the gaming genre is wider, but what we have lost as opposed to what we have gained is telling. What happened to these huge genres: proper adventure games (before that term became an umbrella of genres), military warfare games, flight simulators. Versions of these still exist but they are poorer sellers or were transformed into more "fun" games.
What have we gained? MOBA's, Rhythm, Battle Royal and Rocket League gameplay needed in very game with shooter or vehicles, MMORPG's became MMO's and now might end up as MO's. But this is only marginally about genres, we have far more genre's over all.
Presumably you choose to ignore the unicorn mounts in TERRA, FFXIV, Neverwinter, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, BDO, Wizard 101, Rift, ESO, Bless...a list of MMOs without unicorns would be smaller.
Ancient type lore mixed within modern culture. Hmmn...It belongs only because it's more of a cultural habit. This is a good argument for a term paper perhaps in a sociology class.
Comments
I don't dislike 3rd person because its "easy", I like first person because it personally feels more immersive to me and immersion is something I seek in gaming.
It is one of the reasons I think Fortnite is second rate, but I would put that on any TPS, and must admit it can be a woolly distinction. PS2 for example is third person, but it is a MMO in my eyes so that's fine.
The latest influence I have seen of infantilization is the introduction of a football game to Crossout. This is a grimy post-apocalypse world where you now play matches with a giant football. If it is the sort of thing pre-teens to mid twenties want, put it in regardless of the theme lore and look of the game.
I just can't get the hang of this "over-the-shoulder" view too many roleplaying games have adopted...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
It still is today for some.
Also, see the reaction to Last of Us 2 E3 trailer.
I don't know why certain people think their little personal bubble extends beyond themselves but PC gaming wasn't mainstream and it isn't now.
In the 90's while most of you advanced humanoids were having fun by not having fun apparently the majority of normal people were in Pizza Shops, Bowling Alleys, and Arcades doing this;
I mean if we're going to be honest, if you're that hardcore about your fun shouldn't you folks be shaking up multi-sided dice in a quiet room with a couple of socially inept friends? IJS.
Your idea of fun is right where you left it, on your old ass beige box.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I am not sure you have got what I am going on about here, difficulty is just one element of it. The gist of this is pandering to the pre-teen to mid twenties age group above all else. One persons 'just right' as regards difficulty is another's too easy or too hard. I am not claiming to know what is the right difficulty for games, just pointing out it is getting ever easier and that can't be good for gaming. If it was getting ever harder and I would say the same thing.
Classic times from those arcade games, and they do illustrate another of the points I made here. You must remember when we were kids how we saw the whole evolution of games being about graphics getting more realistic? Look at the colours and quality of those games, Fornite to me is something that adheres to that colour scheme more than say BF.
Games are becoming more childish, that's the issue.
I admit that they certainly "looked beautiful" and sounded awesome, but remind myself, "It's a video game showcase. They show the best."
On Topic:
World of Warcraft had many "real world" references which were many times presented in a tongue-in-cheek manner. I usually smiled or laughed. But that game presented itself as "not serious" with its choice of art style.
Sometimes, it's OK to devolve a little. It does seem to get more prominent as the industry keeps growing. All in moderation, as they say.
VG
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Games aren't getting childish, you're just getting old and want games for old you. Blaming young people, and calling games "childish" is so hypocritical and not how the point needs to be made IMO.
Just say you want an adult themed MMORPG that doesn't break immersion. It's simple and doesn't contradict your entire existence as a gamer.
What type of childhood did you guys have? On my side we were playing Street Fighter, Ikari Warriors, R-Type, and Gauntlet + and other types of SHMUPS that required hand eye coordination. All those came out before Ultima Online, and Everquest. Lets be fair.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
From what I saw, I would agree with them. But that is an assumption on my part.
VG
At that time we saw the graphics in games getting ever better and more realistic, now cute and colourful seem to be as important as hyper-realism.
Did I anywhere blame "young people"? This one is down to the gaming industry and pushing a certain sort of game and graphics. Players get used to whatever they are given, it is not the players fault they expect every Assassins Creed since AC3 to be incredibly dumbed down. Once the new level of simplicity was established that's what they expect.
Many of my examples are about gaming difficulty, but that's just because it is easier to track than the likes of changing graphics, adult themes and so on.
I wouldn't mind an adult themed MMORPG, but this is not just about MMOs, and you don't have to be adult themed to avoid garish colours, simplicity, no depth, same control systems, etc.
In moderation I would have no issue with real world references and "tongue-in-cheek". In certain games it fits better than others say Mad Max rather than Shadow of Mordor, or TERRA rather than LotR.
It is the baseball cap, one size fits all gaming approach that is a concern.
I agree with Tactical that we do have adult themed games, not sure they are all that difficult looking at his list? AC being one I pointed out in other posts. Too many games now seem like a walkthrough rather than a playthrough. But when it comes to graphics and so on, of the games I know on that list are fine.
Also this is about the money, as long as the money is with games that are more adult themed, then gaming won't shift too much. It was when I saw how much more money Fornite was making than CoD I saw a writing on the wall moment. Gaming follows the money, so why not make a new Fornite game rather than a new CoD?
I do think the gaming genre is wider, but what we have lost as opposed to what we have gained is telling. What happened to these huge genres: proper adventure games (before that term became an umbrella of genres), military warfare games, flight simulators. Versions of these still exist but they are poorer sellers or were transformed into more "fun" games.
What have we gained? MOBA's, Rhythm, Battle Royal and Rocket League gameplay needed in very game with shooter or vehicles, MMORPG's became MMO's and now might end up as MO's. But this is only marginally about genres, we have far more genre's over all.
Presumably you choose to ignore the unicorn mounts in TERRA, FFXIV, Neverwinter, EQ2, WoW, Vanguard, BDO, Wizard 101, Rift, ESO, Bless...a list of MMOs without unicorns would be smaller.