I just want to take a moment to say: I love that this discussion is actually going well, with reasonable thought out responses and stances. And I won't be glad any of you die when you die, nor will I tweet about it.
Fuck you Bill, die in a fire .... oh wait, was that over the line? Its so hard to tell these days. KIDDING OF COURSE!!!!
I find it sad that here we are, an internet community, having a discussion, maybe with some passion, yet without immediately going for each other's throats, all over some pretentious prick that couldn't be bothered to give what was an apparent fan the time of day. It truly galls me that so many media outlets are twisting this story into some warped manifesto that online communities are evil, instead of placing the blame on the one uncivil asshole that started this mess.
The problem is that women getting harassed on Twitter (apart from actually happening) has become a narrative. That is the primary factor in putting something in most the news media I see now. Not is it news, is it factual? But is it a narrative that has done the rounds before or can we make one out of it? Here is something new that has happened, do we have a narrative for it? Yes. Lets run with that.
It's less a blunder for Anet as a whole, as I don't think many actually defend what Price did.
But it still becomes a cautionary tale for any of the other developers about the risks they take when dealing with the public with their personal social accounts, and how a single tweet or post can end your job.
While I expect a lot of Devs across all games to Lock down their social media, which just strikes me as a common sense thing to do, and leave the PR wrangling to the Pros.
I don't think this will lessen the Official Communication between game companies and their community.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I first saw all of this on reddit with her being fired and what she said, I also saw the tweets and read what started it all. In no way was DeroirGaming being disrespectful, he never brought gender in to it or even hinted towards gender. He was talking about the game, and gave an opinion on her topic. A rather thought out and intelligent opinion.
Yet all she could do was come back at him with a smart ass remark instead of showing her skill and talent with explaining why it can not happen, or adding to what he had to say.
If a woman had made the comments that DeroirGaming had made I can safely bet all the monies that she would have engaged positively towards that person and made intelligent replies showing fans a deeper look in to her job, that i'm sure GW2 fans want to see.
Drama is all this is, its going to stay drama until we all move on from it. She has been fired and honestly she needed to, it was uncalled for.
If Peter Fries wasnt fired as well, you would be typing an article right now of how Mike O'Brien and Anet are sexists for firing only the woman.
I personally wouldn't, but I bet others would have, and I THINK you've hit the nail on the head for why Peter got canned too.
This is what I think too, but we have no right to know and we honestly don't know. Many people following this story think they know with certainty regardless of the fact we are on the outside.
Here is a good rule of thumb: if someone is making dumb decisions and comments publicly, like attacking customers of the company you work for, that is most likely just the tip of the iceberg and they are making 10x the dumb decisions and comments privately. She was probably on the verge of being sacked already and this just put it over the top.
It's just the signs of the time. Roseanne made some comments on Twitter and the entire profitable show was canceled, putting a lot of people out of work who had nothing to do with her comments. They could have fired just her or suspended her until she got some more therapy but that's not what they wanted to do. It's clear message of what companies do to people who screw up on public media. As much as it's been on the news everyone who uses Twitter to voice their thoughts should be aware of the ramifications by now.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I have no sympathy and here's why: ALL of the devs over there have this same contempt for the players of that game. I've experienced it, others I know experienced it, it was worse during the beginning of the game but now that most of the original devs left, it's calmed down naturally.
The issue really is, they are NOT doing enough to fix the imbalance of classes (original builds not the latest), they've not done enough to actually fix bugs people experience particularly with how much processor power the game uses rather than graphics processor power, they've NOT done enough to fix the original world.
I just want to take a moment to say: I love that this discussion is actually going well, with reasonable thought out responses and stances. And I won't be glad any of you die when you die, nor will I tweet about it.
I, too, am surprised at the responses here and heartened that it hasn't resulted in the irrational blanket blame game against feminism and social progressives that I've been seeing all over the internet, which is just as misplaced and fallacious as JP's twitter tirade.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
These types of articles and the gaming media's response in generalare the very reason terms like SJW and feminist have garnered a negative connotation. This is why trust in mainstream media is at an all-time low in America.
You can't fight fire with fire here. Specifically when that fire is not even controlled, but sprayed about ignorantly, setting the entire village aflame with no regard as to who gets burned.
I'm actually trying to look at it from all sides. And it seems to me that the only person who really got "hurt" from all this may have been Peter Fries.
Bill long time reader here. I generally like your reviews and your site. But, I think you are pretty off-base on this one. Your article read like you were defending her and you don't like MO. It doesn't seem neutral to me. Arena Net did what they need to do, which was to fire her. Any type of research tells you that she was wrong.
I seriously don't understand what you were trying to accomplish with this article other then get people to talk about it. MO being the only founding member left really has nothing to do with why she was fired and was completely irrelevant to the whole discussion.
Lot's of game company's founders split off and go their separate ways. It happens. The guy might be an ass or a jerk, but it doesn't change the fact that JP was flat out wrong on so many levels. Even being a jerk, I can get over. But, people are tired of being called a racist, misogynist etc... for simply disagreeing with someone.
Tell you the truth that was one of the nicest disagreements I've seen someone use in a long time. Then she goes on to blast that dude Ink about him been an amateur writer and she is a professional. (another time she was an ass)
Good riddance JP. Well done ArenaNet. Poor form MMORPG. I'll still log in daily as I enjoy your site, but just wanted to let you know where I stand on this one.
I think it was a smart move and clear message from Anet: No drama in our house, directly OR indirectly. No ambiguity and although it might be a bit wry for Piers it leaves no doubt about where the company stands. Clarity trumps being nice every single time.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
To be honest I am appalled at how some game journalists have spun some crazy woman lashing out at a fan, to her being a victim in all of this. I am not specifically talking about this article as I think Bill done a good job at trying to remain neutral. Whilst I do not agree with everything said it was one of the better articles on the topic.
For me Price got what she deserved and I have zero sympathy for someone who even till this day is falsely claiming that it was all about her being a female. She is hiding behind this controversial wall, despite it being false to justify her rude attitude and to make herself appear to be the victim. The only people falling for it appear to be game journalists who for some reason have taken slight that she dare be held accountable for her actions.
I do think Fries got fired simply due to the spin Jessica has put on things of this being a female issue. If he walked away with a warning then the pitch forks would be even worse than they are now. If she want's to hold a discussion on a public forum like twitter she needs to learn how to act responsibly, if all she wants is people to blow smoke up her ass, then make her account private and only add those that she likes or agrees with their opinions.
Either way she is not a victim in this she is a perpetrator hiding behind the victim card and lapping up the attention she is getting to push her anti-female propaganda.
I think the only ones believing an internet mob can get someone fired aren't really paying attention to anything but this particular instance to build that narrative, and ignoring or downplaying the facts of Price's behavior to do so.
Maybe we've been looking at this all wrong, Mike O'Brien, MOB, fired, omg... she was really fired by a MOB! She wasn't lying!
Damn, you're right. I've been reading this all wrong....
I don´t get why gaming media is portraying JP as a victim in this case, she is the perpetrator. Peter i guess was collateral damage, he was only stupid enough to fall for JP´s gender nonsense. But we all don´t know what happened behind closed doors, this might have been the end of something going on for a long time.
So if I was wearing my place of works attire, and out side of the store on the side walk and you came up to me and asked me a respectful question, and I turned around and Mocked you and belittled you and acted like a grade A Asshole, would I not be subject to you going into the store and informing my employer what I did and being held accountable, even if i am not on the clock? She put her place of work on her Twitter account, she talked about work on her twitter account, if she cant take civil discussion and she mocks and calls her companies customers asshats she doesn't deserve to be employed there anymore.
Treat people the way you want to be treated. Can you imagine the Sh*t storm of a thread that would have turned into if Derior lashed out like a real, "rando asshat" instead of politely standing down?
I really dont understand why this is blowing up so big. From what I've been reading and watching from many media outlets the lady went nuts over simple reply on twitter with someone coming to the rescue cause them to get fired as well. You just don't attack your customers no matter how much you despise them haha.
Some of the replies the lady said made herself look like she's the greatest talent there is with development and what we as customers or players giving feedback into a game we may love to play doesnt matter or they think since we dont know how the development side works we can say anything about it. Just dumb thinking imo. "Dont tell me how to do my job!" lol.
I'm confused in what this site is even supporting. If you are supporting the woman that lashed out then shame on you. Absolutely no reason for a employee to lash out the way she did and bring politics into something unrelated to reply she received.
A man who fears nothing is a man who loves nothing; and if you love nothing, what joy is there in your life?
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
A lot of people have been fired from a lot of gaming companies and most of them men (statistically it is undestandable).
It just happen that this time a women was fired that mentioned "mansplaining" and all gaming outlets are outraged and astonished.
Nothing changed from gamergate. Instead of talking about games they are talking about social justice and feminism - just repacked and with spinning a narrative.
It is pretty convenient that in this case also a man was fired so they can say: see? both were unjustly fired. What a unpartial and correct person I am. Except they didnt move a finger when hundred others were fired because of bad pr. Integrity ftw
YOU gaming "journalists", editors etc are not moral authorities you cannot teach me, us what is moral and what is not moral, who should be fired and who should not be fired or which internal policies should a private company use. You can at best be experts in games... remember... games?
Comments
But it still becomes a cautionary tale for any of the other developers about the risks they take when dealing with the public with their personal social accounts, and how a single tweet or post can end your job.
While I expect a lot of Devs across all games to Lock down their social media, which just strikes me as a common sense thing to do, and leave the PR wrangling to the Pros.
I don't think this will lessen the Official Communication between game companies and their community.
Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.
My Review Manifesto
Follow me on Twitter if you dare.
Yet all she could do was come back at him with a smart ass remark instead of showing her skill and talent with explaining why it can not happen, or adding to what he had to say.
If a woman had made the comments that DeroirGaming had made I can safely bet all the monies that she would have engaged positively towards that person and made intelligent replies showing fans a deeper look in to her job, that i'm sure GW2 fans want to see.
Drama is all this is, its going to stay drama until we all move on from it. She has been fired and honestly she needed to, it was uncalled for.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The issue really is, they are NOT doing enough to fix the imbalance of classes (original builds not the latest), they've not done enough to actually fix bugs people experience particularly with how much processor power the game uses rather than graphics processor power, they've NOT done enough to fix the original world.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I installed the game again because of it :P, becasue MO made a right decision. If u fuck with customers it will hurt Your business and MO knows that.
Bill long time reader here. I generally like your reviews and your site. But, I think you are pretty off-base on this one. Your article read like you were defending her and you don't like MO. It doesn't seem neutral to me. Arena Net did what they need to do, which was to fire her. Any type of research tells you that she was wrong.
I seriously don't understand what you were trying to accomplish with this article other then get people to talk about it. MO being the only founding member left really has nothing to do with why she was fired and was completely irrelevant to the whole discussion.
Lot's of game company's founders split off and go their separate ways. It happens. The guy might be an ass or a jerk, but it doesn't change the fact that JP was flat out wrong on so many levels. Even being a jerk, I can get over. But, people are tired of being called a racist, misogynist etc... for simply disagreeing with someone.
Tell you the truth that was one of the nicest disagreements I've seen someone use in a long time. Then she goes on to blast that dude Ink about him been an amateur writer and she is a professional. (another time she was an ass)
Good riddance JP. Well done ArenaNet. Poor form MMORPG. I'll still log in daily as I enjoy your site, but just wanted to let you know where I stand on this one.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Some of the replies the lady said made herself look like she's the greatest talent there is with development and what we as customers or players giving feedback into a game we may love to play doesnt matter or they think since we dont know how the development side works we can say anything about it. Just dumb thinking imo. "Dont tell me how to do my job!" lol.
I'm confused in what this site is even supporting. If you are supporting the woman that lashed out then shame on you. Absolutely no reason for a employee to lash out the way she did and bring politics into something unrelated to reply she received.
A man who fears nothing is a man who loves nothing; and if you love nothing, what joy is there in your life?
Worth a watch. Sums up my feelings perfectly.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
Sorry, I'm not buying it.
It just happen that this time a women was fired that mentioned "mansplaining" and all gaming outlets are outraged and astonished.
Nothing changed from gamergate. Instead of talking about games they are talking about social justice and feminism - just repacked and with spinning a narrative.
It is pretty convenient that in this case also a man was fired so they can say: see? both were unjustly fired. What a unpartial and correct person I am. Except they didnt move a finger when hundred others were fired because of bad pr. Integrity ftw
YOU gaming "journalists", editors etc are not moral authorities you cannot teach me, us what is moral and what is not moral, who should be fired and who should not be fired or which internal policies should a private company use. You can at best be experts in games... remember... games?